Goodbye Space Shuttle Goodbye Jobs!

[Navy1960]

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Laurilee Thompson says her Dixie Crossroads seafood restaurant near Florida’s Kennedy Space Center will lose $50,000 a year in tourist business after the space shuttle flies for the last time in September. She’s not the only taxpayer in Brevard County to feel pain.

Local unemployment climbed to almost 15 percent after Apollo lunar launches ended in 1972. Now Brevard, Florida’s 10th-most populous county, where per capita income is already 8.3 percent less than the state average, is bracing for another blow as the U.S. shifts to moon and Mars flights from orbital missions.

Space Shuttle Shutdown Slams Brevard County as Debt Costs Rise - BusinessWeek

While the Space Shuttle is LONG past retirement and it's overuse and NASA's long term vision has left the people of Brevard and elsewhere exposed to economic loss through it's mismanagement, this type of impact is nothing new. It does however call into question the cancellation of the ARES program which the Administration wants to do, and then at the same time make talk about about job creation.

The bottom line here is that the Space Shuttle was a program that NASA managers did not develop a follow-on too and because of that lack of management on the part of NASA and now faced with the prospect of no manned space capability and the economic impact of it, they responded with the ARES program which will not be ready for another several years. Now NASA because of the recent review by the Administration has been told to scrap the ARES I and are back to trying to develop a system and rent rides from the Russians. Welcome to the brave new world of the space program.

 

[bodecea]

Are you suggesting that the aging fleet continue to fly so small businesses nearby can do better?

 

[rightwinger]

It is amazing the shuttles lasted as long as they did. They go through amazing stress with each flight.
They were truly remarkable technology

 

[xotoxi]

Are you suggesting that the aging fleet continue to fly so small businesses nearby can do better?

I think that he's suggesting that a federal stimulus package should be created to keep these small businesses afloat.

 

[Navy1960]

It is amazing the shuttles lasted as long as they did. They go through amazing stress with each flight.
They were truly remarkable technology

Agreed but a technology that NASA began to to develop too much of a love affiar with and one that never lived up to it's original design intentions. I submit that NASA's mismanagement has put it into the postion where there will be a gap in manned space flight and further enchanced the economic impact of the shuttle programs closure. They have come up with a good design in the ARES and if allowed come to life it will be a good follow-on.

 

[Luissa]

So we should waste even more tax dollars helping an aging fleet, so a few tax payers can stay in business?

 

[rightwinger]

It is amazing the shuttles lasted as long as they did. They go through amazing stress with each flight.
They were truly remarkable technology

Agreed but a technology that NASA began to to develop too much of a love affiar with and one that never lived up to it's original design intentions. I submit that NASA's mismanagement has put it into the postion where there will be a gap in manned space flight and further enchanced the economic impact of the shuttle programs closure. They have come up with a good design in the ARES and if allowed come to life it will be a good follow-on.

I was never a big fan of manned flights. Loved the Mars rovers and the Hubble telescope. Manned flights for maintenance are fine, but unmanned projects are more cost effective

 

[Navy1960]

Are you suggesting that the aging fleet continue to fly so small businesses nearby can do better?

No, I'm suggesting two things actually one I already posted, the other is, if the Govt. is interested in Stimulating the economy then they only need to look at the Shuttle model and see how many PRIVATE industries a program like it creates in order to justify creating real Stimulus. When given the chance to actually do things like this, the Govt. actually has suggested cutting the program that will be the follow-on to the shuttle. What I suggest is that real Stimulus is not just looking for shovel ready road projects that may or may not be built but supporting programs that create long term economic jobs, pubilc and private.

 

[Navy1960]

The National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA) has developed new
technologies for use by the space program which
have resulted in spinoffs beneficially affecting the
quality of life on Earth. During all phases of
flights from launch until landing, the astronauts
were in environments which required the
development of new techniques, equipment, or
procedures to assure their safety during a flight
and return to Earth. Some of the factors of the
environment to be addressed for manned flight
were the physiological effects of weightlessness,
breathing systems, thermal regulation of the
crew during extravehicular activity (EVA) and
lunar excursions, food requirements, toxic
possibilities from spacecraft materials in the event
of fire, microbiological contamination
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930072922_1993072922.pdf

How many other Govt. agencies have actually provided this kind of return on the taxpayer investment besides the US Military? While it's very popular to say.. " let's use that money here on earth" and I have been hearing it for years from the same people who are enjoying the benefits reaped by the very space program they seek to cut. What I find very interesting here, is that someone would be an advocate for Stimulating the economy and yet not seem to realize that programs like the Space Shuttle create long term jobs and stimulate the economy. While I am not advocating keeping the shuttle program because it is well past it's prime and should have been retired years ago, what I am suggesting is that our nation has invested billions in space, in the ISS and also the development of the ARES and if we indeed wanted to have a vital space economy which we depend on by the way and stimulate the economy then it makes little sense to cut the follow-on program.

 

[noose4]

In my opinion if there is an area where cost can be cut it would be NASA, space exploration can be put on hold, space isnt going any where. And I sympathize with those who will feel the financial burden over this but pretty much any cuts made in government spending will result negatively upon somebody somewhere.

 

[Navy1960]

noose , while I agree that to tighten the belt will cause people to suffer someplace, understood, but our society cannot simply abandon space as it once could. Our nation is very dependent on space for everyday life now, right down to the GPS in grandma's car or guidence technology that helps weapons hit the target or the TV and internet we have in our home. Our choice woud be to outsource it like we have most everything else in this nation or do it ourselves. Now, another solution would be to contract with a private company much like purcahsing a C-17 from Boeing and let NASA manage it on a very minimal level. There are many private companies out there like Burt Rutan at Virgin Galactic but they and others such as Rocket X simply do not have the capability to meet the needs. It all comes down to a choice really.

 

[noose4]

noose , while I agree that to tighten the belt will cause people to suffer someplace, understood, but our society cannot simply abandon space as it once could. Our nation is very dependent on space for everyday life now, right down to the GPS in grandma's car or guidence technology that helps weapons hit the target or the TV and internet we have in our home. Our choice woud be to outsource it like we have most everything else in this nation or do it ourselves. Now, another solution would be to contract with a private company much like purcahsing a C-17 from Boeing and let NASA manage it on a very minimal level. There are many private companies out there like Burt Rutan at Virgin Galactic but they and others such as Rocket X simply do not have the capability to meet the needs. It all comes down to a choice really.

I could see non military applications being outsourced to private American companies that operate in entirety within the U.S. but I would be against outsourcing military applications.

 

[beowolfe]

It is amazing the shuttles lasted as long as they did. They go through amazing stress with each flight.
They were truly remarkable technology

Agreed but a technology that NASA began to to develop too much of a love affiar with and one that never lived up to it's original design intentions. I submit that NASA's mismanagement has put it into the postion where there will be a gap in manned space flight and further enchanced the economic impact of the shuttle programs closure. They have come up with a good design in the ARES and if allowed come to life it will be a good follow-on.

I was never a big fan of manned flights. Loved the Mars rovers and the Hubble telescope. Manned flights for maintenance are fine, but unmanned projects are more cost effective

Do you understand the reason for manned flights?

 

[beowolfe]

Are you suggesting that the aging fleet continue to fly so small businesses nearby can do better?

No, I'm suggesting two things actually one I already posted, the other is, if the Govt. is interested in Stimulating the economy then they only need to look at the Shuttle model and see how many PRIVATE industries a program like it creates in order to justify creating real Stimulus. When given the chance to actually do things like this, the Govt. actually has suggested cutting the program that will be the follow-on to the shuttle. What I suggest is that real Stimulus is not just looking for shovel ready road projects that may or may not be built but supporting programs that create long term economic jobs, pubilc and private.

And I take it that you think the situation is different for road construction/repair, or bridge construction/repair or even re-sodding the lawn at the Lincoln memorial....right? It seems to me that you're trying to make a distinction where there's no difference.

 

[rightwinger]

Agreed but a technology that NASA began to to develop too much of a love affiar with and one that never lived up to it's original design intentions. I submit that NASA's mismanagement has put it into the postion where there will be a gap in manned space flight and further enchanced the economic impact of the shuttle programs closure. They have come up with a good design in the ARES and if allowed come to life it will be a good follow-on.

I was never a big fan of manned flights. Loved the Mars rovers and the Hubble telescope. Manned flights for maintenance are fine, but unmanned projects are more cost effective

Do you understand the reason for manned flights?

Buck Rogers

 

[beowolfe]

I was never a big fan of manned flights. Loved the Mars rovers and the Hubble telescope. Manned flights for maintenance are fine, but unmanned projects are more cost effective

Do you understand the reason for manned flights?

Buck Rogers

Just as I thought.

 

[rightwinger]

Do you understand the reason for manned flights?

Buck Rogers

Just as I thought.

"No bucks....no Buck Rogers"

Space race is over, Ol' Buck is now in a retirement home

The real future is in unmanned flights.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Agreed but a technology that NASA began to to develop too much of a love affiar with and one that never lived up to it's original design intentions. I submit that NASA's mismanagement has put it into the postion where there will be a gap in manned space flight and further enchanced the economic impact of the shuttle programs closure. They have come up with a good design in the ARES and if allowed come to life it will be a good follow-on.

I was never a big fan of manned flights. Loved the Mars rovers and the Hubble telescope. Manned flights for maintenance are fine, but unmanned projects are more cost effective

Do you understand the reason for manned flights?

Because they could? Or more, because they wanted to prove they could "just like the Russians."

 

[Claudette]

I live down here on the Space Coast. I live about 20 miles from Cape Canaveral. I watched the first manned shots go up from my front yard. All the tecnology was here in Brevard County until LBJ became the Prez and moved most of it to his home state of Texas.

Yes the shuttle era is ending but there will still be shots from the Cape. They will be rockets instead of the Shuttle. Some have already lost jobs and some are being retrained. This will not be easy on Brevard County. But like everything else, things change. They change all the time. We, like others will just have to adapt.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Are you suggesting that the aging fleet continue to fly so small businesses nearby can do better?

No, I'm suggesting two things actually one I already posted, the other is, if the Govt. is interested in Stimulating the economy then they only need to look at the Shuttle model and see how many PRIVATE industries a program like it creates in order to justify creating real Stimulus. When given the chance to actually do things like this, the Govt. actually has suggested cutting the program that will be the follow-on to the shuttle. What I suggest is that real Stimulus is not just looking for shovel ready road projects that may or may not be built but supporting programs that create long term economic jobs, pubilc and private.

I thought that a lot of folks were against "make work" programs.....


Is this one of those spend a million so a $50,000.00 job doesn't end?

Is the jobs thing related to the way people voted?


Brevard has been red for three elections now!