GOD’S GOV’T vs. HUMAN GOV’T.

[Charles_Main]

GOD’S GOV’T vs. HUMAN GOV’T.

You lily-livered bunch of Radical Right Wing wimps who complain that human gov’t has too many rules, regulations and mandates ain’t seen nothing yet. If you think man made gov’t is too much, when GOD sets up his kingdom (Government) with it’s rules, mandates and regulations and you protest GOD will possible kick you butt and kick you out.

The nation of Israel complained about GOD’s rules, regulations and mandates and we see what happed to them. The word of GOD, the bible, is a book of rules, regulations and mandates the nation of Israel could not live by them and neither will most of us.
The Law: The First Five Books | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

GOD gave Israel food stamps, Manna, after the delivered them from Egypt on the way to the land he had given them.

He fed a multitude with two fish and a bottle of wine. A hand out?
Universal healthcare he healed the sick, blind and lame with a promise to wipe out sickness and death.

Most likely under GOD’s Government he will have entitlement programs because he believed in taking care of the poor.

GOD distributed the wealth when he commanded us to pay taxes and Gleaning of the fields. Leviticus 19:9-10 and Deuteronomy 24:19-22

Sell all your possession, give to the poor and follow me. Luke 12;33
Is GOD a Socialist?

What is the difference between anti-government right wing radicals and anti-government Militia groups?

How hard will it be for Romney with his millions to enter the kingdom of heaven. Matt 19; 16-26.

I would have to say Democrats are more in tuned with Christianity then Right Wing Radicals.

Um, Contrary to popular belief most of us so called right wing Radicals, do not want Church Law to be the Law of the land. We understand the difference between keeping Government and Organized Churches separate, and sanitizing all mention of God at all from Public Life.

The only Important roll for "god" in US government was laid out in the Deceleration of Independence. The Mention of God there is not to say we must live by God law or the Churches law, Instead it was to say that all these rights were are about to lay out here, Come to us from "god" a Power higher than Any man, and therefore they can never be taken from us by any Government of Men. It was a way of making our rights Untouchable.

Our Constitution lays out what the Government can not do to us, because of Rights given to us by "God" Unlike many other Nations Constitutions which in effect lay out what the Government can do to you, and any Rights you have come solely from mans Government and therefore can be taken away by Men.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So what, are you saying that churches that do not teach the rapture are not "christian"?

Let me ask you something, what about the tens of thousands of Near Death Experiences? including one from a pastor who wrote a book about it "90 Minutes in Heaven".

Those people are lying?

We know almost nothing about the brain, they are mistaken, I am not sure I would call them liars.

Well... no brain activity on the monitors means that the brain is not giving off any electrical output...thereby... that brain is essentially dead. Chemically? Perhaps.... I won't necessarily give you that... but it is a consideration.

What about the first part of that post? What about Churches that don't teach the Rapture?

Few of the supposed Christian sects actually are. They believe in the Trinity, which is not in the Bible, they believe people go to heaven when they die, which doesn't happen and they believe Jesus was born on 25 December. Not teaching the Rapture is just more evidence.

 

[uscitizen]

God's govt is a bit one sided.
No trials just judgement. And only heaven or hell as punishment/reward.
And you suffer for all eternity unless you vote for the one guy?

Kind of like a dictatorship?

I think the thread title is a bit hosed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

God's govt is a bit one sided.
No trials just judgement. And only heaven or hell as punishment/reward.

Kind of like a dictatorship?

There is no place that is Hell. Satan rules the supposed place, right? According to the Bible Satan rules Earth until the 2nd coming, if there is a Hell it is here.

 

[Steelplate]

Who believes that Christ was born on the 25th of December? I do believe it's been pretty much historically proven that Christ was born in the spring.

As far as the Trinity... meh. There's many mentions of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the way it's worded, they all have equal standing. Here's three...

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19].
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14].
To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2].

Just because they don't use the word "trinity"... doesn't mean they are wrong. If that's the case... show me the word "rapture".

 

[uscitizen]

God's govt is a bit one sided.
No trials just judgement. And only heaven or hell as punishment/reward.

Kind of like a dictatorship?

There is no place that is Hell. Satan rules the supposed place, right? According to the Bible Satan rules Earth until the 2nd coming, if there is a Hell it is here.

Yes the reality is that we humans make or own hell in the here and now.

Satan was an angel in heaven who got plumb revolting and raised such a fuss that Gos had Gabriel kick his ass out.
War in heaven? not such a perfect place?
Maybe some Neocons would like it there.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Who believes that Christ was born on the 25th of December? I do believe it's been pretty much historically proven that Christ was born in the spring.

As far as the Trinity... meh. There's many mentions of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the way it's worded, they all have equal standing. Here's three...

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19].
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14].
To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2].

Just because they don't use the word "trinity"... doesn't mean they are wrong. If that's the case... show me the word "rapture".

Most main stream Christian sects believe that the holy trinity is fact. And you either are misstating what that means are not aware. When the word Trinity in reference to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is mentioned it means they are all 3 the SAME BEING. Jesus was clear he is NOT his Father. He is NOT God.

At least understand what you are arguing about.

 

[Harry Dresden]

So then why did Jesus tell the criminal next to him on the Cross after he asked Jesus to remember him...Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."- Luke 23:43

The truth is... You don't know... I don't know. We won't know until we die.

Therefore you admit you lack faith.

Let's see... Sgt says that we won't see heaven or hell till Judgment Day... I posted a verse that says differently.... so where does your faith lie?

I happen to think that all those reports of "near Death Experiences", combined with the Luke passage refutes Sgt's theory pretty well. However... until I pass away, one really does not know which side is correct, do we?

Steel do you think he meant RIGHT NOW or when that day comes?....in think it could easily have meant when that day gets here.....but like you said.....who knows.....

 

[Steelplate]

God's govt is a bit one sided.
No trials just judgement. And only heaven or hell as punishment/reward.

Kind of like a dictatorship?

There is no place that is Hell. Satan rules the supposed place, right? According to the Bible Satan rules Earth until the 2nd coming, if there is a Hell it is here.

Gnostics believe that there is no hell... No heaven(so to speak) either. Just different levels of growth as a Christian. At the early levels of spiritual growth... the Concepts of Heaven and Hell are used to keep Early believers from getting themselves into trouble... in later stages, those fear/reward techniques are no longer necessary.

The Gnostic definition of Heaven is to reach the final stage of Spiritual knowledge(there are five).

Of course, Gnostics were labeled Heretics by the Council of Nicaea and the Roman Empire.... which makes me wonder sometimes about the political influence on our religion. Not enough to abandon it or deny my Christianity.... but enough to question.

 

[uscitizen]

Who believes that Christ was born on the 25th of December? I do believe it's been pretty much historically proven that Christ was born in the spring.

As far as the Trinity... meh. There's many mentions of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the way it's worded, they all have equal standing. Here's three...

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19].
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14].
To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2].

Just because they don't use the word "trinity"... doesn't mean they are wrong. If that's the case... show me the word "rapture".

Most main stream Christian sects believe that the holy trinity is fact. And you either are misstating what that means are not aware. When the word Trinity in reference to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is mentioned it means they are all 3 the SAME BEING. Jesus was clear he is NOT his Father. He is NOT God.

At least understand what you are arguing about.

Yeah the whole Jesus was/is God thing makes Jesus out to be a liar.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Therefore you admit you lack faith.

Let's see... Sgt says that we won't see heaven or hell till Judgment Day... I posted a verse that says differently.... so where does your faith lie?

I happen to think that all those reports of "near Death Experiences", combined with the Luke passage refutes Sgt's theory pretty well. However... until I pass away, one really does not know which side is correct, do we?

Steel do you think he meant RIGHT NOW or when that day comes?....

His quote had the comma in the wrong place. Jesus did not say he would ascend right then.

 

[GuyPinestra]

We know almost nothing about the brain, they are mistaken, I am not sure I would call them liars.

Well... no brain activity on the monitors means that the brain is not giving off any electrical output...thereby... that brain is essentially dead. Chemically? Perhaps.... I won't necessarily give you that... but it is a consideration.

What about the first part of that post? What about Churches that don't teach the Rapture?

Few of the supposed Christian sects actually are. They believe in the Trinity, which is not in the Bible, they believe people go to heaven when they die, which doesn't happen and they believe Jesus was born on 25 December. Not teaching the Rapture is just more evidence.

I'll stay off of the Trinity argument because it's not what I was thinking about, I'm with you on the 'Go to Heaven' argument, and anyone that knows climatology knows Christ wasn't born on Dec. 25. (Although it is feasible that He was conceived on that day)

As for the Rapture, I find nothing Biblical to support the theory. I posted the verse earlier that started the theory, and the disputation of that theory can be found in the same verse. Christ comes twice. Once as a sacrifice, and once as King of Kings. He's not coming in between those events to 'fly away the faithful'.

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

 

[Steelplate]

Therefore you admit you lack faith.

Let's see... Sgt says that we won't see heaven or hell till Judgment Day... I posted a verse that says differently.... so where does your faith lie?

I happen to think that all those reports of "near Death Experiences", combined with the Luke passage refutes Sgt's theory pretty well. However... until I pass away, one really does not know which side is correct, do we?

Steel do you think he meant RIGHT NOW or when that day comes?....in think it could easily have meant when that day gets here.....but like you said.....who knows.....

Look.... I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and take an absolute stand on something that I won't truly know until I draw my last breath. I believe in Christ's message... the idiosyncrasies of different churches are Dogma that Jesus himself would possibly say..."Ugh... you're missing the POINT!!!".

 

[whitehall]

The radical left can't defend Barry so they launch crazy charges. Does "one Nation under God" sound familiar? How about "they are endowed by their Creator with certain alienable rights". How radical can you get when a single agnostic or atheist can ignite an anti-Christian tirade that would cause a half century Korean War monument to be bulldozed because it has a 40 ft Cross?

Ummm...so?

I mean, Conservative Christians could be accused of the same types of things. How they are intruding into people's bedrooms and into women's wombs because of their beliefs. How they want to legislate the morality of people who may not even believe in their God.

But that's... OK... isn't it?

Don't get me wrong... I am a Christian. However, I believe that none of us are without sin and usually the most pious and self righteous of people are usually the ones with not only skeletons in their closets... but oft times have graveyards in them.

I know I am a flawed individual... I make no allusions otherwise. We all are. "Other people's sins? They are none of your business.

You have to wonder about Americans who think Christians "are intruding into people's bedrooms and woman's wombs". Is it paranoia or ignorance? The ironic thing is that the supreme court found a "right to privacy" not contained in the Constitution to open woman's wombs to technicians who kill their unborn children.

 

[Steelplate]

Let's see... Sgt says that we won't see heaven or hell till Judgment Day... I posted a verse that says differently.... so where does your faith lie?

I happen to think that all those reports of "near Death Experiences", combined with the Luke passage refutes Sgt's theory pretty well. However... until I pass away, one really does not know which side is correct, do we?

Steel do you think he meant RIGHT NOW or when that day comes?....

His quote had the comma in the wrong place. Jesus did not say he would ascend right then.

My quote came directly from the bible.

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Here's the link... every translation is written the same.

hey.... it's been fun... but I've been on the go since 4AM, and I got another day of work to go before I get two off... good night all.

 

[Steelplate]

The radical left can't defend Barry so they launch crazy charges. Does "one Nation under God" sound familiar? How about "they are endowed by their Creator with certain alienable rights". How radical can you get when a single agnostic or atheist can ignite an anti-Christian tirade that would cause a half century Korean War monument to be bulldozed because it has a 40 ft Cross?

Ummm...so?

I mean, Conservative Christians could be accused of the same types of things. How they are intruding into people's bedrooms and into women's wombs because of their beliefs. How they want to legislate the morality of people who may not even believe in their God.

But that's... OK... isn't it?

Don't get me wrong... I am a Christian. However, I believe that none of us are without sin and usually the most pious and self righteous of people are usually the ones with not only skeletons in their closets... but oft times have graveyards in them.

I know I am a flawed individual... I make no allusions otherwise. We all are. "Other people's sins? They are none of your business.

You have to wonder about Americans who think Christians "are intruding into people's bedrooms and woman's wombs". Is it paranoia or ignorance? The ironic thing is that the supreme court found a "right to privacy" not contained in the Constitution to open woman's wombs to technicians who kill their unborn children.

God gave us free will, did he not? Who are you to take that away? Are you above God?

 

[uscitizen]

Ummm...so?

I mean, Conservative Christians could be accused of the same types of things. How they are intruding into people's bedrooms and into women's wombs because of their beliefs. How they want to legislate the morality of people who may not even believe in their God.

But that's... OK... isn't it?

Don't get me wrong... I am a Christian. However, I believe that none of us are without sin and usually the most pious and self righteous of people are usually the ones with not only skeletons in their closets... but oft times have graveyards in them.

I know I am a flawed individual... I make no allusions otherwise. We all are. "Other people's sins? They are none of your business.

You have to wonder about Americans who think Christians "are intruding into people's bedrooms and woman's wombs". Is it paranoia or ignorance? The ironic thing is that the supreme court found a "right to privacy" not contained in the Constitution to open woman's wombs to technicians who kill their unborn children.

God gave us free will, did he not? Who are you to take that away? Are you above God?

Many christians do seem to have goals of taking others free will away from them.

 

[Harry Dresden]

God's govt is a bit one sided.
No trials just judgement. And only heaven or hell as punishment/reward.
And you suffer for all eternity unless you vote for the one guy?

Kind of like a dictatorship?

I think the thread title is a bit hosed.

like Jesus said in response to someone asking ....."if you plant a Garden,do you not pull the Weeds?"......if God breathed life into us,and we are like his Garden,and your a weed fucking the Flowers over.....you just might get pulled.......it might be a dictatorship BUT how many Dictatorships do you know of that offer Eternal life and the prospect of being much much more Mentally and Physically than what we are now?.......the price?.....worship he who created you and obey his laws.......ill take a chance with that.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

God's govt is a bit one sided.
No trials just judgement. And only heaven or hell as punishment/reward.

Kind of like a dictatorship?

There is no place that is Hell. Satan rules the supposed place, right? According to the Bible Satan rules Earth until the 2nd coming, if there is a Hell it is here.

Yes the reality is that we humans make or own hell in the here and now.

Satan was an angel in heaven who got plumb revolting and raised such a fuss that Gos had Gabriel kick his ass out.
War in heaven? not such a perfect place?
Maybe some Neocons would like it there.

it may have been more like Lucifer calling his creator out in front of all the other beings there over mankind......in the Religion class i took,the few scholars that were taking the class with us told us some interesting stories.....one was that Lucifer is believed to have been Gods first creation and was closest to him and was given the job of watching over Adam and Eve....and became jealous over the attention god gave A&E......and after he led them astray when called on it by God.....in front of all the other Beings in Gods realm....Lucifer told God that if it wasnt for you giving them everything,they would spit in your face and are not worth your time......God said for some of them this is true,but for a great many this is not true,and they are worth my time......so he said to prove mankind has integrity, i will turn my back for a time and you will be cast out amongst them,BUT you will not have full influence over them,there was things Lucifer will not be able to do to get us to his side apparently,and God also sent us the new NO.1 Jesus to give us Hope and hopefully show us the right way to be......great story......and we had some great class discussions on this......they showed us some really early Hebrew Texts that hints this stuff....

 

[GuyPinestra]

There is no place that is Hell. Satan rules the supposed place, right? According to the Bible Satan rules Earth until the 2nd coming, if there is a Hell it is here.

Yes the reality is that we humans make or own hell in the here and now.

Satan was an angel in heaven who got plumb revolting and raised such a fuss that Gos had Gabriel kick his ass out.
War in heaven? not such a perfect place?
Maybe some Neocons would like it there.

it may have been more like Lucifer calling his creator out in front of all the other beings there over mankind......in the Religion class i took,the few scholars that were taking the class with us told us some interesting stories.....one was that Lucifer is believed to have been Gods first creation and was closest to him and was given the job of watching over Adam and Eve....and became jealous over the attention god gave A&E......and after he led them astray when called on it by God.....in front of all the other Beings in Gods realm....Lucifer told God that if it wasnt for you giving them everything,they would spit in your face and are not worth your time......God said for some of them this is true,but for a great many this is not true,and they are worth my time......so he said to prove mankind has integrity, i will turn my back for a time and you will be cast out amongst them,BUT you will not have full influence over them,there was things Lucifer will not be able to do to get us to his side apparently,and God also sent us the new NO.1 Jesus to give us Hope and hopefully show us the right way to be......great story......and we had some great class discussions on this......they showed us some really early Hebrew Texts that hints this stuff....

I stole this from the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's a little long, but it makes a lot of sense.

To find out why God allows suffering, we need to think back to the time when suffering began. When Satan led Adam and Eve into disobeying Jehovah, an important question was raised. Satan did not call into question Jehovah’s power. Even Satan knows that there is no limit to Jehovah’s power. Rather, Satan questioned Jehovah’s right to rule. By calling God a liar who withholds good from his subjects, Satan charged that Jehovah is a bad ruler. (Genesis 3:2-5) Satan implied that mankind would be better off without God’s rulership. This was an attack on Jehovah’s sovereignty, his right to rule.
Adam and Eve rebelled against Jehovah. In effect, they said: “We do not need Jehovah as our Ruler. We can decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong.” How could Jehovah settle that issue? How could he teach all intelligent creatures that the rebels were wrong and that his way truly is best? Someone might say that God should simply have destroyed the rebels and made a fresh start. But Jehovah had stated his purpose to fill the earth with the offspring of Adam and Eve, and he wanted them to live in an earthly paradise. (Genesis 1:28) Jehovah always fulfills his purposes. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) Besides that, getting rid of the rebels in Eden would not have answered the question that had been raised regarding Jehovah’s right to rule.
Let us consider an illustration. Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem. Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If he throws the rebels out of the class, what will be the effect on the other students? Will they not believe that their fellow student and those who joined him are right? All the other students in the class might lose respect for the teacher, thinking that he is afraid of being proved wrong. But suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem.

13 Jehovah has done something similar to what the teacher does. Remember that the rebels in Eden were not the only ones involved. Millions of angels were watching. (Job 38:7; Daniel 7:10) How Jehovah handled the rebellion would greatly affect all those angels and eventually all intelligent creation. So, what has Jehovah done? He has allowed Satan to show how he would rule mankind. God has also allowed humans to govern themselves under Satan’s guidance.

14 The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class. They will understand why the teacher thereafter removes any rebels from the class. Similarly, Jehovah knows that all honesthearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves. Like Jeremiah of old, they will learn this vital truth: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”—Jeremiah 10:23.
Why, though, has Jehovah allowed suffering to go on for so long? And why does he not prevent bad things from happening? Well, consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do. First, he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case. Second, the teacher would not help the rebel to make his case. Similarly, consider two things that Jehovah has determined not to do. First, he has not stopped Satan and those who side with him from trying to prove that they are right. Allowing time to pass has thus been necessary. In the thousands of years of human history, mankind has been able to try every form of self-rule, or human government. Mankind has made some advances in science and other fields, but injustice, poverty, crime, and war have grown ever worse. Human rule has now been shown to be a failure.

16 Second, Jehovah has not helped Satan to rule this world. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? If Jehovah were to act in that way, he would become party to a lie. However, “it is impossible for God to lie.”—Hebrews 6:18.
What, though, about all the harm that has been done during the long rebellion against God? We do well to remember that Jehovah is almighty. Therefore, he can and will undo the effects of mankind’s suffering. As we have already learned, the ruining of our planet will be undone by the turning of the earth into Paradise. The effects of sin will be removed through faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, and the effects of death will be reversed by means of the resurrection. God will thus use Jesus “to break up the works of the Devil.” (1 John 3:8) Jehovah will bring all of this about at just the right time. We can be glad that he has not acted sooner, for his patience has given us the opportunity to learn the truth and to serve him. (2 Peter 3:9, 10) Meanwhile, God has been actively seeking sincere worshipers and helping them to endure any suffering that may come upon them in this troubled world.—John 4:23; 1 Corinthians 10:13.