Get rid of Social Security now?

[flacaltenn]

It's part of their compensation and it's not like a pension or health insurance because the SS match is mandated by law therefore it is part of their income.

It would be more accurate (and honest) to say the 6.2% FICA contribution is added to the overall cost of hiring employees than to say it is part of an individual employee's compensation, which is like saying the cost of heating in winter, air-conditioning in summer, access to toilets and drinking water is also part of the employees' compensation.

But if it makes you feel better to say it your way, I understand.

Lemme 'splain to you why Skull is correct. If I own a chain of retail stores and someone comes to me with an improved self-checkout lane system and claims that it will save 12% on labor costs over 5 years and 20% thereafter -- I'll start doing the math. I can control to some extent the other benefits that the employees get -- Like the CEO of Whole Foods did by instituting his own brand of health insurance -- but the 6.2% is a FIXED labor cost associated with each cashier that is FORCED on me.

It's gonna make that system calculation look a LOT more attractive if there's nothing I can do about the FICA contribution part of the wages. It's YOUR cost of labor. It's a price on your head that cannot be hand-waved away..

 

[Skull Pilot]

I understand if it makes you feel better to be a government apologist after all you are dependent on it.

We can parse definitions all you want but my argument is still valid because the total of employee and employer contributions for the SS and medicare scams is 15% of one's income.

And that 15% of one's income would provide a better retirement if it was held in a private account.

Right. Until one of Mitt Romney's pals rips it off.

Now tell us that never happens.

Since I don't buy stocks from Mitt Romney or any of his pals none of them can rip me off.

Tell me how can anyone take money out of your private account unless you let them?

Now tell me how much money is actually in the SS trust fund.

Think of it this way

If I started a pension plan for my employees then used all the money I took out of their pay to buy all kinds of shit for my business while they were working for me and then I used the money other employees contribute to their pensions to pay the pensions of people who have retired I would be arrested and you would want me to be arrested.

Well little old sheep the above is exactly what the fucking government does with your money but you approve.

 

[MikeK]

Since I don't buy stocks from Mitt Romney or any of his pals none of them can rip me off.

Tell me how can anyone take money out of your private account unless you let them?

Daily Kos: Did Mitt Romney Loot Pension Fund and Stick Uncle Sam with Bill?

Retirement Heist: How Firms Plunder Workers' Nest Eggs - Forbes

Now tell me how much money is actually in the SS trust fund.

My undersanding is the Trust Fund is not a little box with stacks of $100 bills in it but rather an accumulation of Treasury bonds, or other forms of government IOU, which are analogous to bank savings account statements. I further understand this arrangement has existed for decades, during which the Social Security program has functioned flawlessly.

Think of it this way

If I started a pension plan for my employees then used all the money I took out of their pay to buy all kinds of shit for my business while they were working for me and then I used the money other employees contribute to their pensions to pay the pensions of people who have retired I would be arrested and you would want me to be arrested.

We recently have seen how the banking system, along with several major corporations, stood on the verge of collapse but were rescued by a government bailout. That was over four years ago and the total outlay was close to a trillion dollars. Yet my Social Security allotment, along with millions of others, arrived faithfully on the first of every month since then. Yet here you come, along with a veritable cult of pessimistic right-wing Chicken Littles, telling me you have no faith in this system and insisting you know a better way.

You persistently refuse to acknowledge or accept that Social Security will fail only if the dollar collapses and Government goes broke, in which case we will have a lot more than that to worry about -- because most of the Nation's wealth exists in the form of, or is represented by, the U.S. dollar

So, again, however you choose to invest your money, if you are as proficient (and as lucky) at it as you seem to think you are or will be, I wish you success. But if, like a few others I know who weren't quite as smart as they thought they were, you end up holding a bad hand, you will still have your monthly Social Security check to keep you warm.

Meanwhile, try to keep in mind that Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, O'Reilly, and the rest of those right-wing propagandists, have become wealthy by recruiting and brainwashing acolytes like you. These guys are the Elmer Gantrys of a new social order which is determined to resurrect the Gilded Age.

Well little old sheep the above is exactly what the fucking government does with your money but you approve.

Once again, it is you who has all the complaints. I'm doing just fine.

 

[flacaltenn]

Since I don't buy stocks from Mitt Romney or any of his pals none of them can rip me off.

Tell me how can anyone take money out of your private account unless you let them?

Daily Kos: Did Mitt Romney Loot Pension Fund and Stick Uncle Sam with Bill?

Retirement Heist: How Firms Plunder Workers' Nest Eggs - Forbes

Now tell me how much money is actually in the SS trust fund.

My undersanding is the Trust Fund is not a little box with stacks of $100 bills in it but rather an accumulation of Treasury bonds, or other forms of government IOU, which are analogous to bank savings account statements. I further understand this arrangement has existed for decades, during which the Social Security program has functioned flawlessly.

Think of it this way

If I started a pension plan for my employees then used all the money I took out of their pay to buy all kinds of shit for my business while they were working for me and then I used the money other employees contribute to their pensions to pay the pensions of people who have retired I would be arrested and you would want me to be arrested.

We recently have seen how the banking system, along with several major corporations, stood on the verge of collapse but were rescued by a government bailout. That was over four years ago and the total outlay was close to a trillion dollars. Yet my Social Security allotment, along with millions of others, arrived faithfully on the first of every month since then. Yet here you come, along with a veritable cult of pessimistic right-wing Chicken Littles, telling me you have no faith in this system and insisting you know a better way.

You persistently refuse to acknowledge or accept that Social Security will fail only if the dollar collapses and Government goes broke, in which case we will have a lot more than that to worry about -- because most of the Nation's wealth exists in the form of, or is represented by, the U.S. dollar

So, again, however you choose to invest your money, if you are as proficient (and as lucky) at it as you seem to think you are or will be, I wish you success. But if, like a few others I know who weren't quite as smart as they thought they were, you end up holding a bad hand, you will still have your monthly Social Security check to keep you warm.

Meanwhile, try to keep in mind that Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, O'Reilly, and the rest of those right-wing propagandists, have become wealthy by recruiting and brainwashing acolytes like you. These guys are the Elmer Gantrys of a new social order which is determined to resurrect the Gilded Age.

Well little old sheep the above is exactly what the fucking government does with your money but you approve.

Once again, it is you who has all the complaints. I'm doing just fine.

That bolded part above? It's already failed because it was designed to be self-sustaining. That system needs fixing YESTERDAY.. And again -- there is nothing of value IN the Trust Fund. No bonds -- only a hostage note promising to payback a blatant THEFT from working Americans.

If you accept the Dem vision of "fixing" it -- by raising caps even MORE than the 10 to 1 ratio of premiums that exists today and means testing it and taxing the reciepts -- then all youve done is turn FDR's vision into yet another welfare case. It'll be the last time that the folks trust Washington with a "UNIVERSAL" program..

Nobody's "brain-washed" me -- but evidently some bureaucracy has looted your dear program and told you a fantastic set of lies.. Who's the gullible one???

 

[Skull Pilot]

Since I don't buy stocks from Mitt Romney or any of his pals none of them can rip me off.

Tell me how can anyone take money out of your private account unless you let them?

Daily Kos: Did Mitt Romney Loot Pension Fund and Stick Uncle Sam with Bill?


Retirement Heist: How Firms Plunder Workers' Nest Eggs - Forbes

Once again a privately held investment account has absolutely nothing to do with a pension fund. Nothing. Tell me how Mitt Romney can get his hands on the stocks I buy.

Now tell me how much money is actually in the SS trust fund.

My undersanding is the Trust Fund is not a little box with stacks of $100 bills in it but rather an accumulation of Treasury bonds, or other forms of government IOU, which are analogous to bank savings account statements. I further understand this arrangement has existed for decades, during which the Social Security program has functioned flawlessly.

I would not call forcing people to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars to lost opportunity a flawless system

Think of it this way

If I started a pension plan for my employees then used all the money I took out of their pay to buy all kinds of shit for my business while they were working for me and then I used the money other employees contribute to their pensions to pay the pensions of people who have retired I would be arrested and you would want me to be arrested.

We recently have seen how the banking system, along with several major corporations, stood on the verge of collapse but were rescued by a government bailout. That was over four years ago and the total outlay was close to a trillion dollars. Yet my Social Security allotment, along with millions of others, arrived faithfully on the first of every month since then. Yet here you come, along with a veritable cult of pessimistic right-wing Chicken Littles, telling me you have no faith in this system and insisting you know a better way.

[/quote]

As I have said over and over again the market rises and falls but over time nothing beats it

You persistently refuse to acknowledge or accept that Social Security will fail only if the dollar collapses and Government goes broke, in which case we will have a lot more than that to worry about -- because most of the Nation's wealth exists in the form of, or is represented by, the U.S. dollar

I have never mentioned once that SS will fail. My sole argument is that people would have more, much much more in retirement if they owned the accounts their SS contributions were held.

So, again, however you choose to invest your money, if you are as proficient (and as lucky) at it as you seem to think you are or will be, I wish you success. But if, like a few others I know who weren't quite as smart as they thought they were, you end up holding a bad hand, you will still have your monthly Social Security check to keep you warm.

There is no luck involved with a long term buy and hold strategy. You seem not to know the difference and that's because you choose to be ignorant on the subject and let the government watch out for you.

Meanwhile, try to keep in mind that Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, O'Reilly, and the rest of those right-wing propagandists, have become wealthy by recruiting and brainwashing acolytes like you. These guys are the Elmer Gantrys of a new social order which is determined to resurrect the Gilded Age.

Why should I listen to talking heads like those people you listen to? I don't waste my time with them and you shouldn't either.

Well little old sheep the above is exactly what the fucking government does with your money but you approve.

Once again, it is you who has all the complaints. I'm doing just fine.

Good for you but why should I have to settle for what you're comfortable with?