German Army in WW2

[ilia25]

right but when all your intelligence is saying it and you do nothing to even prepare...

Oh but he was preparing -- his own attack on Germany Soviet historians wanted to hide that fact, so they were eager to tell stories of Stalin being so naive.

As for the intelligence, it was not all that conclusive. Germans supplied Russian spies with disinformation too. Plus little things like a complete lack of preparations by Germans for a war in winter conditions (which was true, they were not planning for that).

I haven't heard about Stalin attacking Germany.

Well, it is pretty compelling theory. Look at what Stalin did:
1) He allowed Hitler to crush Poland by agreeing to divide it between USSR and Germany -- and he attacked Poland in the back soon after Hitler did (Stalin kept his half of Poland after the WWII). He also occupied Baltic states, ensuring that USSR has as much common border with Germany as possible.
2) He generously supplied Germany with all the raw materials it needed to fight France and England.
3) All the while he is building the world's most powerful military (i.e. bigger and better equipped).
4) Yet he forgoes the most basic defensive preparations. E.g. the families of the Red Army officers stayed close to the border and when Germans attacked many Russian commanders left their troops to save their wives, children and last, but not the least, their possessions.
5) When Hitler does attack, Stalin is at complete loss. His first order to Red Army is to keep its cool and to not fall for German "provocations".
6) And all this comes from a man who was as cunning, as he was ruthless.

This theory is not very popular in the West because Stalin was playing FDR and Churchill just as he was playing Hitler.

 

[Peach]

Oh but he was preparing -- his own attack on Germany Soviet historians wanted to hide that fact, so they were eager to tell stories of Stalin being so naive.

As for the intelligence, it was not all that conclusive. Germans supplied Russian spies with disinformation too. Plus little things like a complete lack of preparations by Germans for a war in winter conditions (which was true, they were not planning for that).

I haven't heard about Stalin attacking Germany.

Well, it is pretty compelling theory. Look at what Stalin did:
1) He allowed Hitler to crush Poland by agreeing to divide it between USSR and Germany -- and he attacked Poland in the back soon after Hitler did (Stalin kept his half of Poland after the WWII). He also occupied Baltic states, ensuring that USSR has as much common border with Germany as possible.
2) He generously supplied Germany with all the raw materials it needed to fight France and England.
3) All the while he is building the world's most powerful military (i.e. bigger and better equipped).
4) Yet he forgoes the most basic defensive preparations. E.g. the families of the Red Army officers stayed close to the border and when Germans attacked many Russian commanders left their troops to save their wives, children and last, but not the least, their possessions.
5) When Hitler does attack, Stalin is at complete loss. His first order to Red Army is to keep its cool and to not fall for German "provocations".
6) And all this comes from a man who was as cunning, as he was ruthless.

This theory is not very popular in the West because Stalin was playing FDR and Churchill just as he was playing Hitler.

If so, he did not 'play' them well, his government lasted for only a few decades after he left power.

 

[ginscpy]

You cant say Hitler sent troops into battle that he woulnt do himself.

Was blinded in a gas atttack in WW1!

 

[ilia25]

I haven't heard about Stalin attacking Germany.

Well, it is pretty compelling theory. Look at what Stalin did:
1) He allowed Hitler to crush Poland by agreeing to divide it between USSR and Germany -- and he attacked Poland in the back soon after Hitler did (Stalin kept his half of Poland after the WWII). He also occupied Baltic states, ensuring that USSR has as much common border with Germany as possible.
2) He generously supplied Germany with all the raw materials it needed to fight France and England.
3) All the while he is building the world's most powerful military (i.e. bigger and better equipped).
4) Yet he forgoes the most basic defensive preparations. E.g. the families of the Red Army officers stayed close to the border and when Germans attacked many Russian commanders left their troops to save their wives, children and last, but not the least, their possessions.
5) When Hitler does attack, Stalin is at complete loss. His first order to Red Army is to keep its cool and to not fall for German "provocations".
6) And all this comes from a man who was as cunning, as he was ruthless.

This theory is not very popular in the West because Stalin was playing FDR and Churchill just as he was playing Hitler.

If so, he did not 'play' them well, his government lasted for only a few decades after he left power.

Well, Stalin knew well that the USSR cannot coexist with democratic states, and that is why he had to go for the whole thing. And thank goodness he failed.

 

[Peach]

You cant say Hitler sent troops into battle that he woulnt do himself.

Was blinded in a gas atttack in WW1!

He cared not for human life, except his own. He enjoyed human suffering, and thought all Germans should die at the end; THEY lost the war, and thus betrayed him. A more evil man the world has not seen in centuries.

 

[ilia25]

You cant say Hitler sent troops into battle that he woulnt do himself.

Was blinded in a gas atttack in WW1!

That is why Hitler became the greatest murderer the world ever know. Also he had the best soldiers at his disposal.

 

[dilloduck]

78 years later, yes. Had Lee the weaponry Patton had, Patton would be hiding under a bed. I would choose Eisenhower over Patton in any event.

You judge a generals skills by the type of weapons he has ? Keep your day job.

No, by RESULTS. Lee had nothing, yet pulled off miracles for the South. I gather you do not remember Lee was offered command of the Union Army, but declined due to his belief is STATES' RIGHTS.

Wrong--I knew that without even googling it.

Patton won---Lee lost-----there are your results

 

[rightwinger]

No. They had a larger army. largest in the world.

Hence better

Heh! Heh! Heh!
The Soviet Army was known for its use of penal battalions. Men scrounged from the country's jails and prisons with the promise that they would be allowed to go free should they survive the war. They routinely were assigned to lead the Army's charge. They were allowed no weapons, their purpose was to set off the enemy's mines and to fall on the barbed wire, providing soldiers further back a means of quickly crossing those barriers once they came to them.
It was routine practice for the Soviet Army to not provide weapons to all their regular soldiers, too. They were then expected to procure weapons from soldiers that had fallen earlier in the charge.
The battalions became quite chaotic during the war. Officers often didn't speak the same language or dialect as the enlisted men under their command. During Stalingrad one new officer was assigned to a unit of men who spoke a different dialect making communication between them difficult. Shortly after the officer's arrival several of his men deserted. The officer was ordered shot, even though he couldn't speak the same language and therefore was unable to overhear and detect their plans.
When a Russian soldier was ordered to be shot for dereliction of his duty, he was routinely stripped of his uniform down to his underwear. Again in Stalingrad, one soldier was stripped, taken out and shot, but the executioners in his case happened to have had lousy aim. The soldier came to after being shot the first time, picked himself up and stumbled back into his barracks, He was ordered to be taken out and shot, again.
Aside from the penal battalions, the Soviet Army routinely employed blocking troops, usually Commisars, rather than soldiers, stationed fifty yards or so behind the front lines. Their job was to shoot and kill any and all retreating Russian soldiers. Nikita Kruschev, later Premier of the Soviet Union, earned his spurs as a blocking trooper during the battle of Stalingrad.
Ruthless and brutal. Nevertheless, they got the job done.

You fight with what you have. In spite of primitive tactics, the Soviets managed to defeat the master race on three fronts. The Soviets killed millions of Nazis and did what the sophisticated French and British troops could not do....Smash the Nazis

 

[rightwinger]

You cant say Hitler sent troops into battle that he woulnt do himself.

Was blinded in a gas atttack in WW1!

So were tens of thousands of other troops. Wrong place at the wrong time. It didn't show any extra bravery. Charging machine guns over no mans land did.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

Oh but he was preparing -- his own attack on Germany Soviet historians wanted to hide that fact, so they were eager to tell stories of Stalin being so naive.

As for the intelligence, it was not all that conclusive. Germans supplied Russian spies with disinformation too. Plus little things like a complete lack of preparations by Germans for a war in winter conditions (which was true, they were not planning for that).

I haven't heard about Stalin attacking Germany.

Well, it is pretty compelling theory. Look at what Stalin did:
1) He allowed Hitler to crush Poland by agreeing to divide it between USSR and Germany -- and he attacked Poland in the back soon after Hitler did (Stalin kept his half of Poland after the WWII). He also occupied Baltic states, ensuring that USSR has as much common border with Germany as possible.
2) He generously supplied Germany with all the raw materials it needed to fight France and England.
3) All the while he is building the world's most powerful military (i.e. bigger and better equipped).
4) Yet he forgoes the most basic defensive preparations. E.g. the families of the Red Army officers stayed close to the border and when Germans attacked many Russian commanders left their troops to save their wives, children and last, but not the least, their possessions.
5) When Hitler does attack, Stalin is at complete loss. His first order to Red Army is to keep its cool and to not fall for German "provocations".
6) And all this comes from a man who was as cunning, as he was ruthless.

This theory is not very popular in the West because Stalin was playing FDR and Churchill just as he was playing Hitler.

Stalin's paranoia led him to murder most of his officer corps a little before Hitler invaded, as a result the German Army was able to push a thousand mile front six hundred miles deep into the USSR in roughly three months. The Soviet Army was essentially leaderless. The Soviet Army's abysmal performance in Finland prior to the German invasion, as well, led Hitler to think the Soviet Union was so weak that "All we have to do is kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure will collapse."

 

[Sunni Man]

That is why Hitler became the greatest murderer the world ever know.

Incorrect:

both Stalin and Mao killed far more than Hitler.

 

[Intense]

USSR was better

Germany Out Classed us in Aviation, Battle Ships, Subs, Armour, Fire Power, Missiles, they flew the first Jet in Battle. We were very lucky that Hitler was his own worst Enemy.

 

[rightwinger]

USSR was better

Germany Out Classed us in Aviation, Battle Ships, Subs, Armour, Fire Power, Missiles, they flew the first Jet in Battle. We were very lucky that Hitler was his own worst Enemy.

Germany was afraid to take its battleships out of port. Both the US and Britain quickly established air superiority over the Luftwaffe. German jets and V2s came too late to make a difference.
The US did manage to develop one weapon the Germans didn't have.......and the Japanese felt the wrath

 

[Intense]

USSR was better

Germany Out Classed us in Aviation, Battle Ships, Subs, Armour, Fire Power, Missiles, they flew the first Jet in Battle. We were very lucky that Hitler was his own worst Enemy.

Germany was afraid to take its battleships out of port. Both the US and Britain quickly established air superiority over the Luftwaffe. German jets and V2s came too late to make a difference.
The US did manage to develop one weapon the Germans didn't have.......and the Japanese felt the wrath

R_ghtW_ng_r _s v_ry St_p_d Som_t_m_s.
RW, Do you want to buy a Vowel?

Yes we were lucky Hitler, being more interested in Long Range Bombers, kept obstructing the development of the MW-262 Jet Fighter. What is dangerous about recreating History, is the loss of the lessons learned.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8CQp2_BLc&feature=related]ME262 Jet - YouTube[/ame]
Me-262 Jet

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDs1xdWkhBI&feature=related]ME 262 Jetfighter documentary - YouTube[/ame]
ME 262 Jetfighter documentary

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LA-JIVoZso&feature=related]Weaponology - Waffen SS part 1 of 3 - YouTube[/ame]
Weaponology - Waffen SS part 1 of 3

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTNJ2oz1aE]Dogfights: "Sink the Bismarck" 1 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]
Dogfights: "Sink the Bismarck" 1 of 5

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4JQbgccR4Y]WW2 PANTHER TANK VS SOVIET INFANTRY - YouTube[/ame]
WW2 PANTHER TANK VS SOVIET INFANTRY

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwQtK1uCd_8&feature=related]THE TIGER TANK "TIGER ATTACK" - YouTube[/ame]
THE TIGER TANK "TIGER ATTACK"

German Technology was more advanced on multiple fronts.
Do we really need to go more into specifics?

 

[Trajan]

The German armaments industry was a mess. They may have begun to develop better weapons, but that’s not the whole picture.

Yet, They succeeded in spite of the fractious territorial infighting in increasing production right up till 1945, despite a strategic bombing campaign against them, their lack of resources which they had to pilfer from nations around them and Hitler’s interference in what to produce and how much of each.

There have been a few new works recently, in that Stalin made Hitler ( or the german army operationally) look good, Hitler was a horrible grand tactician and strategically interfered when he should have let his Generals handle the Ost Strategy, one of the harshest examples being his Leningrad fetish, turning units better kept in army grp. center heading towards Moscow, to the north and in 1942, Fall Blau, the operation Hitler mangled causing the Stalingrad debacle.

 

[rightwinger]

Germany Out Classed us in Aviation, Battle Ships, Subs, Armour, Fire Power, Missiles, they flew the first Jet in Battle. We were very lucky that Hitler was his own worst Enemy.

Germany was afraid to take its battleships out of port. Both the US and Britain quickly established air superiority over the Luftwaffe. German jets and V2s came too late to make a difference.
The US did manage to develop one weapon the Germans didn't have.......and the Japanese felt the wrath

R_ghtW_ng_r _s v_ry St_p_d Som_t_m_s.
RW, Do you want to buy a Vowel?

Yes we were lucky Hitler, being more interested in Long Range Bombers, kept obstructing the development of the MW-262 Jet Fighter. What is dangerous about recreating History, is the loss of the lessons learned.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8CQp2_BLc&feature=related]ME262 Jet - YouTube[/ame]
Me-262 Jet

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDs1xdWkhBI&feature=related]ME 262 Jetfighter documentary - YouTube[/ame]
ME 262 Jetfighter documentary

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LA-JIVoZso&feature=related]Weaponology - Waffen SS part 1 of 3 - YouTube[/ame]
Weaponology - Waffen SS part 1 of 3

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTNJ2oz1aE]Dogfights: "Sink the Bismarck" 1 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]
Dogfights: "Sink the Bismarck" 1 of 5

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4JQbgccR4Y]WW2 PANTHER TANK VS SOVIET INFANTRY - YouTube[/ame]
WW2 PANTHER TANK VS SOVIET INFANTRY

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwQtK1uCd_8&feature=related]THE TIGER TANK "TIGER ATTACK" - YouTube[/ame]
THE TIGER TANK "TIGER ATTACK"

German Technology was more advanced on multiple fronts.
Do we really need to go more into specifics?

No question Germany had nice Toys. Hitler loved toys

But toys don't win wars. The soviets demonstrated that. You win wars with tactics, superior force and most importantly logistics. Hitler had no time for logistics. He thought if he screamed loud enough, the stuff would get there. Hitler had jets, but much of his logistics were hauled by horses

Some of Hitlers toys were effective. Some, like his jets, were too complex and had limited range. His tanks were fearsome, but broke down too often

The simplest weapon was fuel.......Hitler ran out

 

[Douger]

Everyone fails to understand reality. Stalin didn't do shit. Neither did that sawed off mouthpiece Hitler(stein). It was herds of brainwashed assholes-turned meatheads who "did stuff".
People incapable of thinking for themselves. "Just doing my job sir". These types have been the scourge of humanity since the beginning of time.
They're ferociously proud of their stupidity. Just look at all of the flags !

Look at these nitwits. They should all be dead.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHZIUdHm6b4]China - Hell March - the largest army in the world - FULL - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Douger]

Yes sir !!!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoMAIAB3N7g&feature=related]Thousands cheer home 42 Commando in Plymouth - part one - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Douger]

Humans are fucking idiotzzz.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1SWrf_Kx-0]Russian Army Parade Rehearsal 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Ringel05]

Seems like a whole bunch of people here need to do a whole lot of research....... which they have yet to do.......