George Washington's Angelic vision

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by RodISHI, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    Just a thought for some to consider.

     
  2. the rev
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    the rev Rookie

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    Actually, I find that disturbing. It makes Washington look like a profit. But whoever came up with that story must understand that this country was started by slave owning atheist who didn't want to pay taxes. They, like modern day conservatives, use this universal, miscellaneous 'God' to further their agenda. Christ is not a republican, nor is he an American. He doesn't have a favorite country and as of the last 30 years, why would he favor this country? We take profit over humanity. Kinda breaks the Matthew 25 rule. Christ is an immortal spirit for the world to share. Its just more arrogance from people in this nation to think"God" created us to save the world. Well, who's going to save the world from us? We are the biggest promoter of capitalism aka greed. And look what our corporations are doing to third world countries. Real Christ like.So much for taking care of the "least of these". Yes, I know, other countries do the same. But, in order to take the speck out of their eye, we must first remove the log from our own.

    When this country started out, it was guilty of some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity(slavery, how we treated the native americans, taking of Mexican lands). As of the last 100 years, I think our country has evolved into a little more compassionate society. But we still have a long way to go. I still don't consider this a christian nation because our economic policies that put too much faith in money and industry instead of Christ. What makes me sick are so called 'Christians' beating others over the head with the bible when they have no clue what it says.
     
  3. California Girl
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    He was one smart man, George Washington. I wish we had such men today.
     
  4. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    I think you need to look a little farther into history. Visions are prophetic like it or not. Many of the men in the initial Republican party were also Quakers. Who do you think helped in getting the Emancipation Proclamation established, atheist? No, good men and women who believed in God. Men and women who walked the path God set them here in this country to walk.
    Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation: the end of slavery in America
    By Allen C. Guelzo




    You have some jerky precepts here. Jesus is a true conservative and a true liberal. Not in the sense that men/women perceive in their tacky little politics. According to the Bible you are in error if you think that for one moment God would did not establish a country that will do His will in all things.

    Who is "us" in your mind? Judas {Judas Iscariot, the apostle who betrayed Jesus }was the banker. Judas = "he shall be praised", Iscariot = "men of Kerioth" , who praises the bankers? I sure do not yet even Judas served the purpose that he was created for.

    Kerioth = "cities"




    Do not include my household or myself in your "we". I have not promoted capitalism yet I have had to live within the constraints of a society that does. Not doubt there are a lot of sticker pickers and log plunkers that wish to keep babble on alive and keep people enslaved with deception for a few can reap profits while enslaving this nation and other nations. Do not take away from those who have been generous and shared because of those who have led others down Cain's path. God rules the hearts of men. Rather pray that He will change the hearts of those who have sold their brothers and sisters in this world into slavery to fill their own greed and lust before God's wrath falls on this nation even harder than it already has.

    I could name many of today's politicians in both parties that fit that bill yet I won't. True believers will see them for what they are.

    Do you think for one moment that God did not allow this to take place? If you don't think that He did then you are only fooling yourself. I thank God each day I do not have to live under Mexican rule. Have you looked at what is going on in Mexico lately or is your rant that we would be better off under the control of gangs and a few unscrupulous men?

    I would disagree that this nation in the last 50 or more years has grown more compassionate towards one another. The big push to incorporate everyone into one mold to be either a slave or a sellout has brought out the worse this nation has to offer while giving more control to those who have stripped this nation and spread their own filth around the globe. Yet even that has been allowed to happen to fill God's purpose. "For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai." [Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation"] [Ai or Aija or Aiath or Hai = "heap of ruins"]

    One nation under God is just that, when one suffers the policies of the nation all will suffer from those policies. According to a few atheist and personally immoral persons this is not a Christian nation. From all appearances some would like to change it from being one nation under God. Screw them and the beast they ride.
    The WORD does not end. It endures forever.
    That is a pretty broad brush you are using. Then again many do not take the time to learn what they profess to believe in. Until the day that they are awakened they live by faith. The Lord faults the preachers early on for this. Jeremiah 2 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version) and He continues to give warning through those He has chosen that are faithful and true to Him. Jesus is the Word of God, the spirit of prophecy and He walks among His people. He came for all that is His and He wished that none would be lost. Since the world and the fullness thereof is His do you not think that He is still in control? Just because some have given themselves over this does not mean that God does not have a handle on it. It is men/women of flesh that fear the world. The world does not control the Spirit that God created. God keeps that to Himself for now and always. Children of men/women suffer themselves and even allow others to trample over them in fear of what the world can do to them. That becomes a choice each will have to deal with within themselves and it will be upon each one to answer themselves to God when their days are done on this earth. That is even if they are worthy to be able to stand before God. Yet again all will be judged by one. He stepped out of heaven and allowed Himself to be crucified to save all that were created by His breath.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  5. the rev
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    1. We are close to 100 years apart. The reason for the founding fathers to start this country was based upon the fact that they were sick of paying taxes. And also, it would of been very hard to get unanimous consent from them if slavery wasn't kept. This has nothing to do with a political party or Lincoln

    2. Modern day conservatives use God for election purposes. If they did believe in Jesus, pick up their cross and follow him, they would not see industry and wealth as the most important things in American life. Furthermore, this country does NOT do the will of Christ. Very few do, but the mass majority do not. Our current economic system says it all if you really think our country if fulfilling the will of Christ.

    3.US= the people in this country.

    4. I will include 'we' every time. Because 'we' know its going on and aren't doing a very good job in changing it. I say 'we' because none of us are perfect and we are all guilty. And until all of these Christians you say are out there get together and do something about the selling out of humanity, we are just as guilty as the ones promoting it.

    5.How do you know that current and past American economic policy hasn't caused what you see in Mexico recently? Our global economy has done more harm then good. And you must be fooling yourself if you think Satan isn't the ruler of this earth. The people of this world follow him and Christians are to pave the way for Christs return. My God, Jesus, would never justify the slaughter of a people so us Americans could expand our territory.Arrogance. Its soothing to think that 'God' let these atrocities happen cause it takes away the guilt.

    6.Over the lasts 100 years we have grow into a better society. Medicare, social security, unemployment, world catastrophe relief, red cross, salvation army ext. Our giving under the dire of circumstances has grown 100 fold. People are more compassionate now than they were. Yes, business and greed has gotten worse. But that doesn't take away the fact we are less Neanderthalic.

    7.One nation under God.... whose God? Once again the misalliances, universal God or Jesus? This country does not run the way a nation would if they followed Christ. So to say this is a Christian nation is an insult to Christ.

    8.Are you Jewish? You quote a lot form the Jewish text. The fire and brimstone of the bible. You mention God but not Jesus. Its not literal, but there is a fundamental character difference between people who always mention God and those that mention Jesus. Ones that always mention God are usually conservatives. They aren't very compassionate towards others and use the word of God from the old testament to back up there theories of nation building or global domination by saying, 'its Gods will' or' its what God would want', just as W used to invade Iraq,"its Gods will". The 'God' of the old testament is harsh, and believes in the way to achieve servetude is to destroy a city of sinners not thinking about the fact we all sin. Nobody is perfect and bad things happen to good and bad people. Nobody now of days is exclusively divine.

    Jesus on the other hand came to break the shackles of the law. He showed that gentiles are also included in gods kingdom if they have faith. Love, giving and sharing are the most used words in the new testament. "Turn the other check" is now adopted. The pharisees tried to trick Jesus all the time with old scripture rants but Jesus came with a new way and a new hope. That seemed to to be too much for the Law of Mosses crowd to handle. Liberals adopt this philosophy even though most of them cant stand religion. But Jesus wasn't a religion, he is a faith. And faith lets the holy spirit tell your heart how to live and not the legalistic rules of the old testament.

    By the Matthew 25 rule, this country has failed in being called a Christian nation. In order to be called a Christian, you must follow Christ. Not just old testament scripture.
     
  6. rr1
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    Rev, I'm RodISHI's husband. She's spent the better part of yesterday researching other subject matter and finally gave out. I'm sure she will respond to your post at sometime. I'd like to address some of the things you posted here as well concerning Washington's vision and the response you just posted. I'd like to start off with something that may be upsetting you. You shouldn't be jealous because old George Washington had a vision and you haven't. There is no place for jealousy in the Kingdom of God.

    1. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was my understanding from my Social Studies and History teachers in grade school and even into high school that one of the primary reasons for our forefathers coming to America was to be shed of religious persecution. I don't think your tax scenario was the primary reason. However, the colonists did indeed resent taxation without representation. It would appear that you do not like it either. Further, you mentioned slavery and unanimous consent in your reply. Slavery as you will recall existed prior to the colonization of America. The native tribes practiced this very thing. She mentioned the Quakers role in the preparation of the Emancipation Proclamation which was indeed delivered by Lincoln. The reason she knows about it well is because my great great great grandfather had a hand in it. You see, his name was Daniel and he was from a Quaker family here in the Midwest who happened to be close personal friends with the Lincoln's. Close enough that Lincoln and Daniel's children played together and even slept together. Now that's a whole other story for another time.
    2. As ISHI told you in her reply, you use a broad brush in your generalization while you are painting a scenario. You alluded that only modern day conservatives use God and it's for election purposes. I personally know liberals who use Him for anything they can get. Now I'll agree with you that there are some who go overboard. But, if you study this phenomenon carefully you will see that there is a certain air of hypocrisy about those who are doing it. Remember, we will know them by their fruits right? You can un-bunch your shorts now. You go even further and say that this country does not do the will of Christ. Have you talked with Him lately and gotten this directly from Him or is this merely just your opinion? Be careful here lest you try to make Him come down and be crucified all over again. If you really believed then you would know and understand that He was crucified once and it was for all. As He said, It is finished. How many times would you have Him be crucified Rev? And more, what cross do you bear? I think you should lighten up on the current economic system and try to concentrate more on your own salvation. It transcends any economy here in the world as its riches are untold. Do you not know that the Word went out and it accomplishes His purpose? Ease up Rev and quit fighting Him.
    3. You wrote that US=the people in this country. Are you an elitist or are you not one in this same country? Again you are generalizing.
    4. You sound like the old story about This Little Piggy Went To Market. Wee Wee Wee all the way home. We know it's going on and we aren't doing a very good job in changing it. Hell man, the Nation is still a babe. You're still here in the world aren't you. If it offends you cut it off. Be rid of it. Where's your faith man? And by the way, don't lay all the crap on these Christians. Get off your ass and pitch in instead of waiting for someone else to do all the work alright?
    5. Mexico was there long before the Pilgrims came to America Rev. Besides, didn't the Master come for all? And for your information there was a global economy long before America was born. I don't think camels and horses and ships are as fast as airplanes and trains and oil tankers in transporting goods though. They damned sure aren't as quick as the internet and this I know for a fact! Your blather about satan ruling the earth is an offense to some who are here in the world. And have you ever noticed that satan never gets an update? Besides, what if he did as you say he does? Do you not know that God rules the heart of man? Maybe you need an update? And then you say "my God, Jesus" as if you have an exclusive claim there. Do you not know that the Angel of The Lord smote a hundred and four score and five thousand in the night which surely must have expanded His kingdom here in the world did it not? Be careful Rev, you're slipping again. If you are soothed and your guilt is taken away by God letting these atrocities happen then what is your beef? Be soothed man.
    6. The statements contained in this paragraph completely goes against and is in direct conflict with any previous statements you have made up to this point. Perhaps you can enlighten us all on what it is you are trying to say in this statement?
    7. Rev this one here is the worst yet. Do you not know there is but one God and He is the God of all that was created? He stepped down out of heaven and came a little lower than the angels into His world that He created. Why did He do this Rev? Because God loved the world enough that He laid Himself down and was crucified and rose from the dead for all of the lost did He not? He bore the nails Rev you didn't. Hell man, it sounds like you hate what He crucified Himself for. What does that make you? To follow Christ is to be with Him where He is Rev. You are here to over come the world not over burden it with your misguided and abstract judgments. Brace up and be a man that He intended you to be instead of an incessant driveler who is empty of faith and knows no power. And for what it's worth to you, you aren't the judge here. Did you not hear Him when He told them that the saints judge the angels? Where were you Rev? I don't think you have the foggiest idea about what is an insult to Christ. If you did, you'd hold your tongue.
    8. Jew or Greek what's it to you Rev? Is there not a plan for the Gentiles? You need to study the scriptures more. Though they be Gods they will die as men. It's not your fight it is His as He said it was. For a man can do nothing to please God.

    You mention faith of which you apparently are lacking in. But if you had even the faith of a mustard seed He can do something with you. As for the remainder of your post I won't even go there with you. Have faith in God not man. Return to your first estate and do the first works. He'll take it from there. This world is the training ground. It's the furnace of affliction and the place we are sent to do His work as He purposed us to do. But above all, this is the place you are right now and you will glorify Him whether you know it or not. Otherwise, He took the nails for nothing didn't He? You gotta remember, He does not fail. I pray for you Rev that His angel come to you quickly that you may know Him. For in Him shall be your faith and strength and to this end I have witnesses because I have hit the send button not knowing how many witnesses will read my response to you. Please excuse my slow post. I'm not as familiar with posting as others. Peace.
     
  7. the rev
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    George Washington's visions were delusions. For a man that didn't even see Africans as people and held them against their will as chattel, its laughable to think it was all my Gods plan.

    2. I didnt use the word 'only' to describe modern day conservatives, you did. You are changing words to fit your argument. This country doesn't do the will of Christ. You don't have to speak with him to know that. Just read the four gospels. Our economic policy spits in the face of Matthew 25 31-46. Greed and selfishness rule this country. If you watch the news, and see the corruption in wall street and in our government, you would see the same. Just look at the American dream, its a material nightmare. Time for Christians to stand up and demand a change.

    3.I'm including myself when I say 'we'. Thats why I used the word 'we' and not 'you' or 'them'.

    4."And by the way, don't lay all the crap on these Christians. Get off your ass and pitch in instead of waiting for someone else to do all the work alright"?

    Thats an intelligent christian response. You have NO CLUE what I do for others. I spend my life helping and serving others as Christ would want me to do. 80 percent of Christians in this country have a religion, not faith. And I will be harder on them because they are supposed to be salt and light of the earth. They should know better!

    5. This country and many others before it have used religion to get away with atrocities. God, well my God, did not give this country permission to basically annihilate Native Americans or Mexicans just because they wanted their lands. To enslave African and Chinese workers. You can dig up anything you want from the old covenant, but you won't find any justification from my MY God Jesus Christ. And Satan does rule the earth, regardless of who is offended, it doesn't change the facts. Remember when Jesus was in the desert and Satan tried to tempt him with all the kingdoms on earth? How could he give Jesus something that wasn't his?

    Did you understand anything that i typed? Your wife said God lets things happen for a reason. As if it was to justify this countries bad behavior. Then I said, people say that to relieve themselves from guilt, not the other way around. And yes, Jesus is my GOD. Just as other followers of Christ can claim he's THEIR GOD. Whats YOUR beef?

    6. Individuals have grown more compassionate. They don't persecute as harshly for social ills and forgiveness is accepted more often. But, the economic side of our nation is teetering on moral bankruptcy.

    7.I know Christ is Lord. But, I want other Christians to admit it. I don't want those in this country, and here it comes, especially on the right of the political spectrum, To use the word GOD and voice their selfish, greedy, violent words afterward. Do you want an example? Tea bag rallies. Its a catch 22. If you say you believe in God, then witch God? If its Jesus, then how come you don't live the way he wants you to live? See what I'm doing here? I work A LOT in politics and these 'psycho Christians' are misrepresenting Christ. The Pharisees did the same in Christs day. Did you read how hard he was on them for saying one thing about God and doing another?

    Your wife has the same outlook as on of them when it comes to this country. We are Gods chosen nation and we do no wrong. Well, I say prove it! Show me where Jesus extols the effectiveness, let alone the morality, of 'trickle down' economics or the genius of the free market system. And second, show me where Jesus favors the unbridled accumulation of wealth that this country worships?

    George Washington talks to angels as if HE was Christ? Now who is worshiping man? Your picking a fight where there isn't one. Once again, I don't like individuals using scripture to justify malicious intent or crimes against humanity. We're not in the dark ages anymore. Faith of a mustard seed? My faith is fine brother, I just see things as what they are. And people need to pick up their cross and follow Jesus instead of picking up their wallet and following wall street. My faith is strong enough to know Christs way for any nation is the best way. Love, sharing and giving need to be adopted instead of freedom, liberty and capitalism. Do you agree with that? George Washington didn't.

    You prey for his angel to visit me? I already have the holy spirit which Christ gave me. Thats what gives me the drive to try and stop fake Christians aka modern day pharisees, from harming or destroying humanity in "Gods" name.

    I have faith in Christs way of life that he teaches in the new covenant. I don't have faith in man and their political 'isms'. I have so much faith I am willing to live and die for it.
    I still don't think you fully understand what I said before.
     
  8. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    Rev, you babble too much I don't think you have understood what you say even. I have no doubt that you did not understand what Rod or I said either. Satan never owned jack to begin with. Jesus knew that. The only thing that satan could/can tempt was/is flesh, carnal beings are subjected to these things that are here in this world and those that follow that creed, they will suffer the woes of it. Good shall always rule over evil whether you choose to believe that or not. Have you not read about the beast that was, is not, that yet is?

    You say you want people to answer to you in your ramble. People do not have to answer to you but every soul He created shall answer to God and those who believe on His Son shall be adopted and He shall decide where they go after they leave this earth.

    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
     
  9. Douger
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    Damnit George. Sitting Crow TOLD you not to read the Bible while you're eating those mushrooms.
     

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