Game Over For Obama

[g5000]

2009: Obama’s Health Care Speech Won’t Get His Mojo Back

2010: Can Obama Get His Mojo Back?

2011: Is Obama Getting His Mojo Back?

2012:Did Obama Just Get His Mojo Back?

May 2013: How Obama can get his mojo back

 

[Derideo_Te]

The only way it goes through is if it's sold as a tax on the American people. A pretty hefty tax. Are LOLberals going to do that? They certainly know the outcome if they did. Thats why they lied about Obamacare not being a tax until it was actually a tax afterall.

I'll rescind the notion that a single payer system wouldn't pass consitutional muster. It probably would if sold as a tax system. So tht means democrats would need to go out and tell voters they are signing up for a massive tax hike to cover the costs of a single payer system. To top that off, after this last sham, voters aren't going to jump on board to anything where government is the manager.

Dems are fucked on this issue unless republicans jump in and splah even more shit on people. Which it looks liek they are eager to do.

Thank you for conceding that single-payer is constitutional. As far as a tax hike is concerned it is inevitable irrespective of any healthcare issues. But to address the issue of single-payer tax hike under the control of the voters vs incessant uncontrolled HMO profit driven increases it is a no brainer which one the voters would prefer when it is explained in those terms. Doubtless the Tea Party faction will blow smoke and scream at town hall events like ill-behaved children.

Yes, just what we need another entitlement program that the government controls' where waste and fraud can run rampant and the pork can be loaded up on "reform bills". I think NOT.

Other nations with government-dominated healthcare systems offer a preview of the fiscal woes and substandard care that lie ahead thanks to the president’s spendthrift reform plan.

In order to realize some savings, the NHS is raising the threshold at which patients qualify for treatment and lengthening wait times for surgeries determined “non-lifesaving.” The Service is also cutting more than 20,000 NHS jobs over the next two years and shuttering a number of hospitals

Patients are feeling the pain. For decades, they’ve turned over substantial portions of their hard-earned paychecks as taxes — and accepted “free”

health care from the government in return. Only about 11 percent of Britons pay for their care privately.

They’ve foregone cutting-edge medical treatments available in the United States, told by their leaders that these new therapies were no better than the old ones — just more expensive. At least in Britain, they thought, everyone has access to basic health care. That has to be better than the situation in America, where tens of millions of people lack health insurance, right?

Hardly. The British healthcare system may “guarantee” access to care — but that doesn’t mean patients actually receive it.

The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away - Forbes

Your Forbes articles are long on opinion and anecdote and short on facts. Credibility relies upon verifiable data. Forbes is providing opinion and foregoing data therefore it has little to no credibility when it comes to healthcare. If it was this deficient in providing data on financial topics it would be out of business by now.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Good luck. If you actually think that anyone is going to be in a position any time soon to go out and sell another healthcare related system to voters, I think you're sadly mistaken. Democrat credibility is cu8rrently in the toilet and will remain there for a long time.

And Obamacare wasnt sold as a tax, remember? Politicians arent capable of telling the truth and now that we've just gotten a dose of LOLberal reality on the matter, I dont see single payer coming up at all any time soon. Whether or not HMO costs will outpace the taxation of such a plan.

The ACA wasn't sold as a tax because it was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative to single-payer. It was primarily a mandate that everyone must be insured but it left in place the expensive and unsustainable for profit HMO model for providing healthcare insurance.

The solution doesn't require any "tax increase" either. All it will take is to offer the "public option" which means that instead of giving your money to a for profit HMO and only getting 80 cents worth of healthcare for every dollar you spend you can give it to the government instead and get 95+ cents worth of healthcare for every dollar.

Who isn't going to want more for their money? Who is going to oppose something that simple and effective?

It was upheld by SCOTUS as a tax.

Non sequitur response.

 

[Redfish]

You're basically just citing provisions that are already in Obamacare.

Yes, and those I listed are the ONLY provisions that are needed. for example, we do not need a real estate sales tax in a healthcare bill. We do not need provisions that mandate that 65 year old women pay for birth control and maternity. We do not need provisions that mandate that 25 year olds pay for senility benefits. We do not need a federal law that tells us what insurance we must buy or be fined.

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

wrong, it can be repealed. It the GOP takes the senate and holds the house, repeal is very likely, as is the ability to overrule an obama veto.

the ACA law has too many flaws to "fix" it. It needs to go and be replaced with something sensible that will actually work.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Good luck. If you actually think that anyone is going to be in a position any time soon to go out and sell another healthcare related system to voters, I think you're sadly mistaken. Democrat credibility is cu8rrently in the toilet and will remain there for a long time.

And Obamacare wasnt sold as a tax, remember? Politicians arent capable of telling the truth and now that we've just gotten a dose of LOLberal reality on the matter, I dont see single payer coming up at all any time soon. Whether or not HMO costs will outpace the taxation of such a plan.

The ACA wasn't sold as a tax because it was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative to single-payer. It was primarily a mandate that everyone must be insured but it left in place the expensive and unsustainable for profit HMO model for providing healthcare insurance.

The solution doesn't require any "tax increase" either. All it will take is to offer the "public option" which means that instead of giving your money to a for profit HMO and only getting 80 cents worth of healthcare for every dollar you spend you can give it to the government instead and get 95+ cents worth of healthcare for every dollar.

Who isn't going to want more for their money? Who is going to oppose something that simple and effective?

It only sounds good, thats why it will be rejected. The general idea sounds great when a good orator steps up and sugar coats a pile of shit, sure. You just did a very effective job. The problem is, that people are right now getting to see first hand what "simple and effective" looks like when it comes to government work. They make bigger messes than they ever solve.

True story. And voters are quitte keen to this reality as of now.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Yes, and those I listed are the ONLY provisions that are needed. for example, we do not need a real estate sales tax in a healthcare bill. We do not need provisions that mandate that 65 year old women pay for birth control and maternity. We do not need provisions that mandate that 25 year olds pay for senility benefits. We do not need a federal law that tells us what insurance we must buy or be fined.

Then get busy to help reform the bill because the fact remains you can't repeal it.

wrong, it can be repealed. It the GOP takes the senate and holds the house, repeal is very likely, as is the ability to overrule an obama veto.

the ACA law has too many flaws to "fix" it. It needs to go and be replaced with something sensible that will actually work.

For your scenario to work the GOP must win a 2/3rds majority in both Houses of Congress. Given that they will need 67 Senate seats and they currently only have 45 they will have to win 22 seats and not lose any at all in 2014. That likelihood is so remote as to be non-existent. Deal with reality instead.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Good luck. If you actually think that anyone is going to be in a position any time soon to go out and sell another healthcare related system to voters, I think you're sadly mistaken. Democrat credibility is cu8rrently in the toilet and will remain there for a long time.

And Obamacare wasnt sold as a tax, remember? Politicians arent capable of telling the truth and now that we've just gotten a dose of LOLberal reality on the matter, I dont see single payer coming up at all any time soon. Whether or not HMO costs will outpace the taxation of such a plan.

The ACA wasn't sold as a tax because it was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative to single-payer. It was primarily a mandate that everyone must be insured but it left in place the expensive and unsustainable for profit HMO model for providing healthcare insurance.

The solution doesn't require any "tax increase" either. All it will take is to offer the "public option" which means that instead of giving your money to a for profit HMO and only getting 80 cents worth of healthcare for every dollar you spend you can give it to the government instead and get 95+ cents worth of healthcare for every dollar.

Who isn't going to want more for their money? Who is going to oppose something that simple and effective?

It only sounds good, thats why it will be rejected. The general idea sounds great when a good orator steps up and sugar coats a pile of shit, sure. You just did a very effective job. The problem is, that people are right now getting to see first hand what "simple and effective" looks like when it comes to government work. They make bigger messes than they ever solve.

True story. And voters are quitte keen to this reality as of now.

So you believe that voters won't do what is in their own best interests and go for the cheaper and more cost effective option if given the choice? Certainly there are some who would rather buy junk policies and pay more then necessary but given that most hardworking Americans will take any financial break they can get it seems odd that in this instance they will prefer to continue to be gouged and denied healthcare by the HMO's instead.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The ACA wasn't sold as a tax because it was the conservative Heritage Foundation's alternative to single-payer. It was primarily a mandate that everyone must be insured but it left in place the expensive and unsustainable for profit HMO model for providing healthcare insurance.

The solution doesn't require any "tax increase" either. All it will take is to offer the "public option" which means that instead of giving your money to a for profit HMO and only getting 80 cents worth of healthcare for every dollar you spend you can give it to the government instead and get 95+ cents worth of healthcare for every dollar.

Who isn't going to want more for their money? Who is going to oppose something that simple and effective?

It only sounds good, thats why it will be rejected. The general idea sounds great when a good orator steps up and sugar coats a pile of shit, sure. You just did a very effective job. The problem is, that people are right now getting to see first hand what "simple and effective" looks like when it comes to government work. They make bigger messes than they ever solve.

True story. And voters are quitte keen to this reality as of now.

So you believe that voters won't do what is in their own best interests and go for the cheaper and more cost effective option if given the choice? Certainly there are some who would rather buy junk policies and pay more then necessary but given that most hardworking Americans will take any financial break they can get it seems odd that in this instance they will prefer to continue to be gouged and denied healthcare by the HMO's instead.

I believe this to be a lie and the credibility of government to perform such a promise just got its head blown off with Obamacare. You're simply trying to sell an idea. Which is all fine and good. Obama and the democrats sold Obamacare (not as a tax, which it is a tax) as a good idea too. People could keep their plans and doctors. People will pay less for better care. More people will be covered, etc....as it turns out, that isn't true at all.

The idea of selling an idea is that you want yur listener to believe what you say. But government just blew its own head off when it comes to managing healthcare. Even from a sideline but in the game perspective like Obama Tax.

No one is going to jump on a train of promisess liek that again any time soon. If ever.

 

[clevergirl]

Thank you for conceding that single-payer is constitutional. As far as a tax hike is concerned it is inevitable irrespective of any healthcare issues. But to address the issue of single-payer tax hike under the control of the voters vs incessant uncontrolled HMO profit driven increases it is a no brainer which one the voters would prefer when it is explained in those terms. Doubtless the Tea Party faction will blow smoke and scream at town hall events like ill-behaved children.

Yes, just what we need another entitlement program that the government controls' where waste and fraud can run rampant and the pork can be loaded up on "reform bills". I think NOT.

Other nations with government-dominated healthcare systems offer a preview of the fiscal woes and substandard care that lie ahead thanks to the president’s spendthrift reform plan.

In order to realize some savings, the NHS is raising the threshold at which patients qualify for treatment and lengthening wait times for surgeries determined “non-lifesaving.” The Service is also cutting more than 20,000 NHS jobs over the next two years and shuttering a number of hospitals

Patients are feeling the pain. For decades, they’ve turned over substantial portions of their hard-earned paychecks as taxes — and accepted “free”

health care from the government in return. Only about 11 percent of Britons pay for their care privately.

They’ve foregone cutting-edge medical treatments available in the United States, told by their leaders that these new therapies were no better than the old ones — just more expensive. At least in Britain, they thought, everyone has access to basic health care. That has to be better than the situation in America, where tens of millions of people lack health insurance, right?

Hardly. The British healthcare system may “guarantee” access to care — but that doesn’t mean patients actually receive it.

The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away - Forbes

Your Forbes articles are long on opinion and anecdote and short on facts. Credibility relies upon verifiable data. Forbes is providing opinion and foregoing data therefore it has little to no credibility when it comes to healthcare. If it was this deficient in providing data on financial topics it would be out of business by now.

Hey, idiot liberal, yeah, you; any Google employing searches for long waits; and lack of treatments provide real life people and stats...but then you'd have to want to know as opposed to living in a self imposed la-la-land reality.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anecdotal comments is only personal not extended verification.

Clevergrl needs 'verifiable data' to be able to make conclusive points.

She has not done that.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It only sounds good, thats why it will be rejected. The general idea sounds great when a good orator steps up and sugar coats a pile of shit, sure. You just did a very effective job. The problem is, that people are right now getting to see first hand what "simple and effective" looks like when it comes to government work. They make bigger messes than they ever solve.

True story. And voters are quitte keen to this reality as of now.

So you believe that voters won't do what is in their own best interests and go for the cheaper and more cost effective option if given the choice? Certainly there are some who would rather buy junk policies and pay more then necessary but given that most hardworking Americans will take any financial break they can get it seems odd that in this instance they will prefer to continue to be gouged and denied healthcare by the HMO's instead.

I believe this to be a lie and the credibility of government to perform such a promise just got its head blown off with Obamacare. You're simply trying to sell an idea. Which is all fine and good. Obama and the democrats sold Obamacare (not as a tax, which it is a tax) as a good idea too. People could keep their plans and doctors. People will pay less for better care. More people will be covered, etc....as it turns out, that isn't true at all.

The idea of selling an idea is that you want yur listener to believe what you say. But government just blew its own head off when it comes to managing healthcare. Even from a sideline but in the game perspective like Obama Tax.

No one is going to jump on a train of promisess liek that again any time soon. If ever.

Let's address your obsession that the ACA is a "tax". If you have employer provided healthcare or you buy your own directly from an HMO or you use the exchanges to obtain subsidized healthcare you are not liable for any "tax penalty" whatsoever. Only if you choose to place the taxpayers at risk for covering your medical expenses if you end up in an ER and don't have insurance will you have to pay a moderate "tax penalty".

So as far as being a "tax" is concerned it only applies to a small fraction of the population who are too irresponsible to obtain healthcare insurance.

So in reality there is no "tax" at all for normal responsible law abiding citizens.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes You Can~

https://www.askheritage.org/can-obamacare-be-repealed-in-the-senate/

No, you can't. Too much time, energy, emotion, $$$, and peoples' lives invested in it. Won't be repealed.

So get cracking on reforming it the way you think it should be.

The program will be here long after you have passed on.

No, Jake, the one certain way to get voters cracking to demand repeal is to take their money in large swaths as Obamacare is created to do. As the article I posted points out; delay and repeal is a very likely scenario we can see being played out over the next two years- So long as the GOP proffers forth a better way going forward- repeal will happen.

Nope, not going to happen. ACA 1.0 will be improved by ACA 2.0 at the end of this month and each new roll out will get better.

You don't have the political numbers any more to delay (unless you shut down the govt again and threaten default, which will harm your Teaps horribly in the election next years) or repeal, and by 2017 time will have run out for you.

I know it's hard for you to accept, but you have lost.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Anecdotal comments is only personal not extended verification.

Clevergrl needs 'verifiable data' to be able to make conclusive points.

She has not done that.

She was given the opportunity and instead of fulfilling her obligation she chose insults instead. The onus remains on her to substantiate her position. Given what has been provided to date it is unlikely that she will be able to do so with anything that will withstand scrutiny.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Seems to me the netirety of the American people lost, Fake. But who cares about that, right?

Seek help, Fake.

 

[JakeStarkey]

TASK is lost

The American people have won, and so have you, TASB.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

No, you can't. Too much time, energy, emotion, $$$, and peoples' lives invested in it. Won't be repealed.

So get cracking on reforming it the way you think it should be.

The program will be here long after you have passed on.

No, Jake, the one certain way to get voters cracking to demand repeal is to take their money in large swaths as Obamacare is created to do. As the article I posted points out; delay and repeal is a very likely scenario we can see being played out over the next two years- So long as the GOP proffers forth a better way going forward- repeal will happen.

Nope, not going to happen. ACA 1.0 will be improved by ACA 2.0 at the end of this month and each new roll out will get better.

You don't have the political numbers any more to delay (unless you shut down the govt again and threaten default, which will harm your Teaps horribly in the election next years) or repeal, and by 2017 time will have run out for you.

I know it's hard for you to accept, but you have lost.

Is teh ACA a tax or not? Yes it is. That's where congress has the authority to install the program. As a tax. I'm not obsessed with it any more than you seem to be obsessed with trying to mitigate the implications of it being a tax. Namely, that it wasn't sold that way. Abnother Obama Administration lie.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

TASK is lost

The American people have won, and so have you, TASB.

Seek help, Fake. Seriously.

 

[Redfish]

TASK is lost

The American people have won, and so have you, TASB.

"he who laughs last, laughs best" This is far from over, snake. The american people will toss this POS law into the trash heap of left wing failures and lies.

the american people have temporalily lost, but the game is only in the first half.

ACA is terrible law and will be struck down one way or another.

 

[Derideo_Te]

TASK is lost

The American people have won, and so have you, TASB.

"he who laughs last, laughs best" This is far from over, snake. The american people will toss this POS law into the trash heap of left wing failures and lies.

the american people have temporalily lost, but the game is only in the first half.

ACA is terrible law and will be struck down one way or another.

So given that the GOP actually only holds the House with a minority vote of the American people (thanks to gerrymandered districts) and the Tea party represents an even smaller minority of that minority this begs the following question.

How does a small minority of the American people who have lost every attempt to "toss this POS law into the trash heap of left wing failures" expect that they are going to win the hearts and minds of the majority of the American and accomplish this goal?

 

[oreo]

TASK is lost

The American people have won, and so have you, TASB.

"he who laughs last, laughs best" This is far from over, snake. The american people will toss this POS law into the trash heap of left wing failures and lies.

the american people have temporalily lost, but the game is only in the first half.

ACA is terrible law and will be struck down one way or another.

It's not politicians that will do the tossing--already Americans are. Only 27,000 signed up for the pay it yourself Obamacare--while 500,000 joined the "free" Medicade rolls under Obamacare.

Millions of Americans have received cancellation notices. Why aren't they buying OBAMACARE? All of the state run Obamacare websites are working just fine. REASON: "The affordable health care act, aka Obamacare--is NOT affordable as promised it would be."

Americans are not going to pay double or triple what they were paying for insurance that is currently being cancelled now--PERIOD.