G. Beck had an interesting point on his show.

[ScreamingEagle]

You're not afforded right to your work in a capitalistic society either. Your work is taken by your owner who affords you with whatever he seems fit.

You have the right to work or to not work for someone else in a free capitalistic socieity...in essence your are selling your time/knowledge for a paycheck...or you go hungry...

If you choose to work for yourself....without a boss....then you must STILL sell your time/knowledge/goods to others in order to get a "paycheck"...

In a FREE society you have that CHOICE..... and if you want to really make some good money you will most likely choose the latter method...since you are allowed to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....therein lies the big difference between capitalism and communism....

I wasn't discussing this. I was replying to the comment that suggested that in 'communistic' society fruits of labor belong to the government, while in capitalistic it belongs to you, what is clearly false. You're afforded just part of it.

In a capitalistic system you do have to pay your taxes.....but after that you get to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....this is how so many American millionairs have been made.....

How many millionaires were created under communism.....?

having lived in the soviet union for a time......quite a few millionaires and billionaires were created......just join the party....and dive into the black market.....

Yeah I know.....but that would be letting out the big nasty secret that there exists an elite ruling group.....

 

[JakeStarkey]

How do we determine what is fair or not and once we determine what is fair and impose that on both the employee and the employer are we not restricting their free choice to decide between themselves?

Then level the playing field and allow the workers' unions to bargain with the employers fairly and evenly.

yep...and watch the cost of goods go up to pay higher wages and benifits.....then watch non union countries build the same products for less and bury the us labour force.....

That would be on management and the owners then, would it not? The Bible clearly states the laborer is worthy of his hire. I am sure those companies that pay fair and decent salaries have loyal employees who work to keep the company going. That's good capitalism.

 

[Kex]

You're not afforded right to your work in a capitalistic society either. Your work is taken by your owner who affords you with whatever he seems fit.

You have the right to work or to not work for someone else in a free capitalistic socieity...in essence your are selling your time/knowledge for a paycheck...or you go hungry...

If you choose to work for yourself....without a boss....then you must STILL sell your time/knowledge/goods to others in order to get a "paycheck"...

In a FREE society you have that CHOICE..... and if you want to really make some good money you will most likely choose the latter method...since you are allowed to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....therein lies the big difference between capitalism and communism....

I wasn't discussing this. I was replying to the comment that suggested that in 'communistic' society fruits of labor belong to the government, while in capitalistic it belongs to you, what is clearly false. You're afforded just part of it.

In a capitalistic system you do have to pay your taxes.....but after that you get to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....this is how so many American millionairs have been made.....

How many millionaires were created under communism.....?

having lived in the soviet union for a time......quite a few millionaires and billionaires were created......just join the party....and dive into the black market.....

Soviet Union didn't have communism. Having lived there during the time I know that they weren't claiming to be one, we were 'building' communism year after year.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

In a capitalistic system there is no taxes, wtf are you talking about? If you are stupid enough to think that the system in place is capitalistic you're stupid enough to not be worth of reply.

Well then....i guess you guys don't have to worry about getting rid of all those nasty CAPITALISTS in America.....

You mean ideological ones? Why would we want to get rid off those clowns?

You are not really making yourself very clear......what is a capitalist to you in the real world?

My definition of a CAPITALIST.....(per the dictionary).....a person who has capital, esp. extensive capital, invested in business enterprises.

 

[Kex]

Well then....i guess you guys don't have to worry about getting rid of all those nasty CAPITALISTS in America.....

You mean ideological ones? Why would we want to get rid off those clowns?

You are not really making yourself very clear......what is a capitalist to you in the real world?

My definition of a CAPITALIST.....(per the dictionary).....a person who has capital, esp. extensive capital, invested in business enterprises.

I am using the second definition, a person who favors capitalism.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You mean ideological ones? Why would we want to get rid off those clowns?

You are not really making yourself very clear......what is a capitalist to you in the real world?

My definition of a CAPITALIST.....(per the dictionary).....a person who has capital, esp. extensive capital, invested in business enterprises.

I am using the second definition, a person who favors capitalism.

Uh...OK....so what makes you think the American system is not capitalistic...?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You have the right to work or to not work for someone else in a free capitalistic socieity...in essence your are selling your time/knowledge for a paycheck...or you go hungry...

If you choose to work for yourself....without a boss....then you must STILL sell your time/knowledge/goods to others in order to get a "paycheck"...

In a FREE society you have that CHOICE..... and if you want to really make some good money you will most likely choose the latter method...since you are allowed to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....therein lies the big difference between capitalism and communism....



In a capitalistic system you do have to pay your taxes.....but after that you get to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....this is how so many American millionairs have been made.....

How many millionaires were created under communism.....?

having lived in the soviet union for a time......quite a few millionaires and billionaires were created......just join the party....and dive into the black market.....

Soviet Union didn't have communism. Having lived there during the time I know that they weren't claiming to be one, we were 'building' communism year after year.

Yeah you never reach the utopia, no matter how hard you try or how many millions you have to throw into mass graves.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

having lived in the soviet union for a time......quite a few millionaires and billionaires were created......just join the party....and dive into the black market.....

Soviet Union didn't have communism. Having lived there during the time I know that they weren't claiming to be one, we were 'building' communism year after year.

Yeah you never reach the utopia, no matter how hard you try or how many millions you have to throw into mass graves.

USSR....that socialism is some pretty rough stuff...

...which....getting back to GB....is what he is saying progressives are progressing towards...

 

[antagon]

cuba has a constitution, dummy. laws too.

So did Germany. Hitler's rise to power was Constitutional, following the Beer Hall Pusche.

Does that mean Hitler wasn't a dictator?

you brought the stupid constitution qualifier into play, hamsterpenis

Lay off the Michael Moore and face reality, man. There's a reason so many Cubans try to make their way here any way they can.

i explained the reason how i see it -- all that existentialism.

i dont know much about mmoore or like the man or his work. i have been to cuba and could say with confidence that theres thousands of folks who like that system. they dont have to eat dirt like haitians or have the violence jamaica or miami have -- theyre proud to point these specific facts out. they talk the same capitalism is evil bullshit 'la maldita capitalisma' that you do. speaking to fellow americans, like speaking to cubans, you could pick up on the hype that the governments have pumped into the population. there are some real commies there who think its the way2go, although there are some folks who wanted to leave and who were being scrutinized because most of their family already left. sux.

seeing the situation first hand keeps me from talking out the side of my mouth like you do.

You're an idiot, aren't you?

my lil intellect gets me by.

 

[JakeStarkey]

...which....getting back to GB....is what he is saying progressives are progressing towards...

That's what he says, but he misdefines progressivism and has for at least two years. I have listened to him several times a week since the fall of 2002. I admire him for condemning the Abu Graib stupidity out of the gate, far and far ahead of any other reactionary commentator. But, because he follows Cleon Skousen and the John Birch Society dicta, he really does not comprehend progressivism historically. That skews his conclusions badly.

 

[Diuretic]

Communism essentially requires that the goods and works of the achievers be taken and distributed to the people that are not achieving and that requires force leading to a dictatorship.

No it doesn't, on either point. It requires the means of production be owned communally and not by private individuals or corporations, so nothing can be taken away because it wasn't there in the first place. It requires everyone to partake in production and it affords everyone their needs. A dictatorship isn't required, although the dictatorship of the proletariat is a phrase we've all read and heard. What is required is planning for the economy and that's where in practical terms it can fall down. That's why market socialism has evolved as a theory. And I think perhaps the former Yugoslavia was a fair example of market socialism, although like anything else, it had its flaws.

Does the community tell me my needs as well?

You can work them out for yourself.

 

[Diuretic]

It wasn't until the 19th Century that a word was required for the situation where someone couldn't find paid work. Think about it.

Okay, you thought about it.

Where the means of production are owned privately then work is only available on the terms set by the owners of the means of production. And the owners of the means of production only want sufficient minimal numbers of employees to guarantee that their enterprise can function. Take that to a society-wide basis and it means that where the means of production are privately owned there will be "unemployment" (that was the word coined in the 19th Century). The twin laws of demand and supply, when applied to labour, mean that there must be more people looking for work then jobs available, that keeps wages down to a level that the owners like to pay because it means they get their surplus value. Where everyone who can work gets a job leads to the situation where owners are bargaining against each other with workers to come and work for them and that isn't good for the owners as it means they pay wages which are higher than they want to.

Where the means of production are socially owned people who can work must work but they don't get exploited as they do in a free market economy.

thats nicely put garbage d.

the supply of workers remains unchanged in your silly world. whats the difference?

in fact wages in a forced ('must work' as you put it) hiring system would have to be reduced either in cash to reflect the same component of production as before... or in kind as a result of the cost of goods reflecting the unnecessary labor contributed to their production (inflation).

i thought most commies threw wages and all out the window, anyhow. what's the point?

null net change in 'exploitation'.

This is where previous knowledge interferes with new knowledge. Try and use a perspective that's a little more open.

 

[antagon]

This is where previous knowledge interferes with new knowledge. Try and use a perspective that's a little more open.

try to present your *new knowledge* outside the constructs of the existing system, or acknowledge the effect your ..knowledge.. would have within the construct. pick.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Communism essentially requires that the goods and works of the achievers be taken and distributed to the people that are not achieving and that requires force leading to a dictatorship.

No it doesn't, on either point. It requires the means of production be owned communally and not by private individuals or corporations, so nothing can be taken away because it wasn't there in the first place. It requires everyone to partake in production and it affords everyone their needs. A dictatorship isn't required, although the dictatorship of the proletariat is a phrase we've all read and heard. What is required is planning for the economy and that's where in practical terms it can fall down. That's why market socialism has evolved as a theory. And I think perhaps the former Yugoslavia was a fair example of market socialism, although like anything else, it had its flaws.

Does the community tell me my needs as well?

You can work them out for yourself.

Really? My needs have proven to be far beyond what is the standard .
Ive had to work and go to school to meet just the knowledge part.
I have tools and Im not done.

I still need more tools. and raw materials .

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Communism essentially requires that the goods and works of the achievers be taken and distributed to the people that are not achieving and that requires force leading to a dictatorship.

No it doesn't, on either point. It requires the means of production be owned communally and not by private individuals or corporations, so nothing can be taken away because it wasn't there in the first place. It requires everyone to partake in production and it affords everyone their needs. A dictatorship isn't required, although the dictatorship of the proletariat is a phrase we've all read and heard. What is required is planning for the economy and that's where in practical terms it can fall down. That's why market socialism has evolved as a theory. And I think perhaps the former Yugoslavia was a fair example of market socialism, although like anything else, it had its flaws.

Does the community tell me my needs as well?

You can work them out for yourself.

JUst give me the chapter and verse of what Im allowed to do now.

 

[Kex]

You have the right to work or to not work for someone else in a free capitalistic socieity...in essence your are selling your time/knowledge for a paycheck...or you go hungry...

If you choose to work for yourself....without a boss....then you must STILL sell your time/knowledge/goods to others in order to get a "paycheck"...

In a FREE society you have that CHOICE..... and if you want to really make some good money you will most likely choose the latter method...since you are allowed to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....therein lies the big difference between capitalism and communism....

In a capitalistic system you do have to pay your taxes.....but after that you get to KEEP THE PROFITS you make....this is how so many American millionairs have been made.....

How many millionaires were created under communism.....?

In a capitalistic system there is no taxes, wtf are you talking about? If you are stupid enough to think that the system in place is capitalistic you're stupid enough to not be worth of reply.

Well then....i guess you guys don't have to worry about getting rid of all those nasty CAPITALISTS in America.....

I do not. There is none unless we're talking about ideological ones, they are as much of a concern as ideological commies.

 

[Kex]

You are not really making yourself very clear......what is a capitalist to you in the real world?

My definition of a CAPITALIST.....(per the dictionary).....a person who has capital, esp. extensive capital, invested in business enterprises.

I am using the second definition, a person who favors capitalism.

Uh...OK....so what makes you think the American system is not capitalistic...?

Presence of government.

 

[Kex]

having lived in the soviet union for a time......quite a few millionaires and billionaires were created......just join the party....and dive into the black market.....

Soviet Union didn't have communism. Having lived there during the time I know that they weren't claiming to be one, we were 'building' communism year after year.

Yeah you never reach the utopia, no matter how hard you try or how many millions you have to throw into mass graves.

No shit, captain.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I am using the second definition, a person who favors capitalism.

Uh...OK....so what makes you think the American system is not capitalistic...?

Presence of government.

Capitalism works best with a democratic form of government...a system of laws that allows a free market and respects private property...

 

[Kex]

Uh...OK....so what makes you think the American system is not capitalistic...?

Presence of government.

Capitalism works best with a democratic form of government...a system of laws that allows a free market and respects private property...

It is not capitalism, sorry. I know how much wingnuts want the country to be Capitalist but it wasn't at any point in history. NEVER!

As to your idiotism I can say that Capitalism doesn't require democracy at all, in fact it tends to stay in the way. Public tends to lower profits and increase risks.