From an outside rational observer's standpoint, Christianity is kind of absurd

[amrchaos]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

Of course, explaining Mother Teresa's selfless help of the poor, downtrodden, and needy as being completely irrational is going to occupy 99% of your neurons for eternity.

So you have that going for you...

.

It is irrational--Her emotions moved her to help people. She did use some rational thought to organize, but it was emotions that drove her.

Emotions are not rational. There is no logic to them.

 

[westwall]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

How do you compare your Judaism with Christianity? What makes Judaism any less weird? I mean you do celebrate the murder of every first born male child in Egypt. Every year. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me.

 

[percysunshine]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

Of course, explaining Mother Teresa's selfless help of the poor, downtrodden, and needy as being completely irrational is going to occupy 99% of your neurons for eternity.

So you have that going for you...

.

It is irrational--Her emotions moved her to help people. She did use some rational thought to organize, but it was emotions that drove her.

Emotions are not rational. There is no logic to them.

Sure, defame every liberal on the board...

.

 

[hadit]

You know--

I can go on youtube and find crazy (insertname here) all day?

Atheist, Catholics, Baptists, Muslim, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, etc. etc.

Hell, have you seen the one about the Psychologist?

One notes yet another outburst of irrational fear and hatred from the usual source. One also notes that God cares about what puny humans consider to be "rational" as much as an adult human cares what ants on a sidewalk consider "rational".

Tribesman 1: I was on a hunting trip and saw a giant silver bird fly over a very high mountain peak. It had huge wings that did not move, and it made a loud noise. As I watched in wonder, it pooped something out that made a huge fire when it hit the ground.

Tribesman 2: Obviously, you are deranged and delusional. Think rationally, please. No bird is that big or that color, and they all move their wings to fly. In addition, none can fly over that mountain, it is too high and none of them can poop out fire. You are clearly stupid, and our scientists declare you a danger to the tribe. They have shown definitively in the lab that what you say you saw could not possibly have happened. Now go, stay in the crazy tent with the women who are having PMS.

The bottom line remains, insisting God does not exist because your sensory, emotional and intellectual capacities cannot comprehend Him is ultimately fruitless.

You know, until tribesman 1 can show proof of what he saw, it is safer to follow the reasoning of tribesman 2(although somethings that tribesman 2 say is unnecessary)

Don't worry--eventually every tribesman will see a silver(or white) airplane and Tribesman 1 will be redeemed.

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

But until then, he should be doubted and questioned

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

 

[hadit]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

How do you compare your Judaism with Christianity? What makes Judaism any less weird? I mean you do celebrate the murder of every first born male child in Egypt. Every year. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me.

They were an enslaved people group. Every year on the fourth of July, Americans celebrate a war that resulted in thousands of dead people. The people who fought that war weren't even slaves. There's nothing messed up with celebrating God taking action on your behalf.

 

[westwall]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

How do you compare your Judaism with Christianity? What makes Judaism any less weird? I mean you do celebrate the murder of every first born male child in Egypt. Every year. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me.

They were an enslaved people group. Every year on the fourth of July, Americans celebrate a war that resulted in thousands of dead people. The people who fought that war weren't even slaves. There's nothing messed up with celebrating God taking action on your behalf.

You are comparing apples to rocks. Yes, the revolution did result is thousands of deaths. The majority willingly given in the pursuit of freedom. Passover is the celebration of the murder of children for the most part.

This is a outsiders viewpoint of course....

 

[hadit]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

How do you compare your Judaism with Christianity? What makes Judaism any less weird? I mean you do celebrate the murder of every first born male child in Egypt. Every year. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me.

They were an enslaved people group. Every year on the fourth of July, Americans celebrate a war that resulted in thousands of dead people. The people who fought that war weren't even slaves. There's nothing messed up with celebrating God taking action on your behalf.

You are comparing apples to rocks. Yes, the revolution did result is thousands of deaths. The majority willingly given in the pursuit of freedom. Passover is the celebration of the murder of children for the most part.

This is a outsiders viewpoint of course....

Passover celebrates the freedom granted the Jewish people after centuries of slavery. It was Egypt's leadership at the time that refused to release them until the consequences for not doing so became high enough. IOW, had they released the Jews after the river turned to blood, they could have avoided the whole problem.

 

[westwall]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

How do you compare your Judaism with Christianity? What makes Judaism any less weird? I mean you do celebrate the murder of every first born male child in Egypt. Every year. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me.

They were an enslaved people group. Every year on the fourth of July, Americans celebrate a war that resulted in thousands of dead people. The people who fought that war weren't even slaves. There's nothing messed up with celebrating God taking action on your behalf.

You are comparing apples to rocks. Yes, the revolution did result is thousands of deaths. The majority willingly given in the pursuit of freedom. Passover is the celebration of the murder of children for the most part.

This is a outsiders viewpoint of course....

Passover celebrates the freedom granted the Jewish people after centuries of slavery. It was Egypt's leadership at the time that refused to release them until the consequences for not doing so became high enough. IOW, had they released the Jews after the river turned to blood, they could have avoided the whole problem.

That's certainly how Jews view it. Egyptians on the other hand view it entirely differently. Had the only people who were killed been the ruling class I am sure the rest of Egypt wouldn't view it so harshly. However ALL the the first born male children from rulers and peasants alike were murdered.

The poor folk have a hard time reconciling that.

From an outsiders POV of course.

 

[amrchaos]

You know--

I can go on youtube and find crazy (insertname here) all day?

Atheist, Catholics, Baptists, Muslim, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, etc. etc.

Hell, have you seen the one about the Psychologist?

One notes yet another outburst of irrational fear and hatred from the usual source. One also notes that God cares about what puny humans consider to be "rational" as much as an adult human cares what ants on a sidewalk consider "rational".

Tribesman 1: I was on a hunting trip and saw a giant silver bird fly over a very high mountain peak. It had huge wings that did not move, and it made a loud noise. As I watched in wonder, it pooped something out that made a huge fire when it hit the ground.

Tribesman 2: Obviously, you are deranged and delusional. Think rationally, please. No bird is that big or that color, and they all move their wings to fly. In addition, none can fly over that mountain, it is too high and none of them can poop out fire. You are clearly stupid, and our scientists declare you a danger to the tribe. They have shown definitively in the lab that what you say you saw could not possibly have happened. Now go, stay in the crazy tent with the women who are having PMS.

The bottom line remains, insisting God does not exist because your sensory, emotional and intellectual capacities cannot comprehend Him is ultimately fruitless.

You know, until tribesman 1 can show proof of what he saw, it is safer to follow the reasoning of tribesman 2(although somethings that tribesman 2 say is unnecessary)

Don't worry--eventually every tribesman will see a silver(or white) airplane and Tribesman 1 will be redeemed.

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

But until then, he should be doubted and questioned

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

 

[Mr Natural]

They're all absurd.

 

[Moonglow]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

You left out the whole Oedipus Rex thing too...

 

[LittleNipper]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

You left out the whole Oedipus Rex thing too...

You lack understanding of the Tri-unity of GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). You believe in gravity. That is invisible. You believe in the wind. That is invisible. How many atoms have you seen lately?

 

[Hollie]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

You left out the whole Oedipus Rex thing too...

You lack understanding of the Tri-unity of GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). You believe in gravity. That is invisible. You believe in the wind. That is invisible. How many atoms have you seen lately?

What do you find supernatural / magical about the wind, atoms or gravity? There's no belief required to understand those entities.

 

[Moonglow]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

You left out the whole Oedipus Rex thing too...

You lack understanding of the Tri-unity of GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). You believe in gravity. That is invisible. You believe in the wind. That is invisible. How many atoms have you seen lately?

I don't have to believe in the wind,I only have to accept that it is there...same with gravity...Believing a story written thousands of years ago and garbled by man's manipulation and accepting as truth what a book called the Bible is stating, but in several different variations of interpretation through translations is a proven flawed creation?
Hardly, when I can have a conversation with either Jesus or God and understand all I need to understand...

 

[hadit]

You know--

I can go on youtube and find crazy (insertname here) all day?

Atheist, Catholics, Baptists, Muslim, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, etc. etc.

Hell, have you seen the one about the Psychologist?

One notes yet another outburst of irrational fear and hatred from the usual source. One also notes that God cares about what puny humans consider to be "rational" as much as an adult human cares what ants on a sidewalk consider "rational".

Tribesman 1: I was on a hunting trip and saw a giant silver bird fly over a very high mountain peak. It had huge wings that did not move, and it made a loud noise. As I watched in wonder, it pooped something out that made a huge fire when it hit the ground.

Tribesman 2: Obviously, you are deranged and delusional. Think rationally, please. No bird is that big or that color, and they all move their wings to fly. In addition, none can fly over that mountain, it is too high and none of them can poop out fire. You are clearly stupid, and our scientists declare you a danger to the tribe. They have shown definitively in the lab that what you say you saw could not possibly have happened. Now go, stay in the crazy tent with the women who are having PMS.

The bottom line remains, insisting God does not exist because your sensory, emotional and intellectual capacities cannot comprehend Him is ultimately fruitless.

You know, until tribesman 1 can show proof of what he saw, it is safer to follow the reasoning of tribesman 2(although somethings that tribesman 2 say is unnecessary)

Don't worry--eventually every tribesman will see a silver(or white) airplane and Tribesman 1 will be redeemed.

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

But until then, he should be doubted and questioned

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

1. God has established Himself. He did so throught

You know--

I can go on youtube and find crazy (insertname here) all day?

Atheist, Catholics, Baptists, Muslim, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, etc. etc.

Hell, have you seen the one about the Psychologist?

One notes yet another outburst of irrational fear and hatred from the usual source. One also notes that God cares about what puny humans consider to be "rational" as much as an adult human cares what ants on a sidewalk consider "rational".

Tribesman 1: I was on a hunting trip and saw a giant silver bird fly over a very high mountain peak. It had huge wings that did not move, and it made a loud noise. As I watched in wonder, it pooped something out that made a huge fire when it hit the ground.

Tribesman 2: Obviously, you are deranged and delusional. Think rationally, please. No bird is that big or that color, and they all move their wings to fly. In addition, none can fly over that mountain, it is too high and none of them can poop out fire. You are clearly stupid, and our scientists declare you a danger to the tribe. They have shown definitively in the lab that what you say you saw could not possibly have happened. Now go, stay in the crazy tent with the women who are having PMS.

The bottom line remains, insisting God does not exist because your sensory, emotional and intellectual capacities cannot comprehend Him is ultimately fruitless.

You know, until tribesman 1 can show proof of what he saw, it is safer to follow the reasoning of tribesman 2(although somethings that tribesman 2 say is unnecessary)

Don't worry--eventually every tribesman will see a silver(or white) airplane and Tribesman 1 will be redeemed.

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

But until then, he should be doubted and questioned

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

God has established Himself a long time ago. Basically, your argument becomes that He must do a trick for every generation, because they refuse to believe otherwise.

 

[hadit]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

You left out the whole Oedipus Rex thing too...

You lack understanding of the Tri-unity of GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). You believe in gravity. That is invisible. You believe in the wind. That is invisible. How many atoms have you seen lately?

What do you find supernatural / magical about the wind, atoms or gravity? There's no belief required to understand those entities.

Actually, there is. You have to accept the word of scientists, because you don't do the research and the math yourself. Those same scientists could tell you that, for example, friction is caused by extremely tiny demons that live on the surface of every object and link arms when the objects get close enough, and you would believe that.

 

[amrchaos]

You know--

I can go on youtube and find crazy (insertname here) all day?

Atheist, Catholics, Baptists, Muslim, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, etc. etc.

Hell, have you seen the one about the Psychologist?

You know, until tribesman 1 can show proof of what he saw, it is safer to follow the reasoning of tribesman 2(although somethings that tribesman 2 say is unnecessary)

Don't worry--eventually every tribesman will see a silver(or white) airplane and Tribesman 1 will be redeemed.

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

But until then, he should be doubted and questioned

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

1. God has established Himself. He did so throught

You know--

I can go on youtube and find crazy (insertname here) all day?

Atheist, Catholics, Baptists, Muslim, Jews, Agnostics, Buddhists, etc. etc.

Hell, have you seen the one about the Psychologist?

You know, until tribesman 1 can show proof of what he saw, it is safer to follow the reasoning of tribesman 2(although somethings that tribesman 2 say is unnecessary)

Don't worry--eventually every tribesman will see a silver(or white) airplane and Tribesman 1 will be redeemed.

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

But until then, he should be doubted and questioned

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

God has established Himself a long time ago. Basically, your argument becomes that He must do a trick for every generation, because they refuse to believe otherwise.

God does not need to perform a miracle each and every generation.

In fact, I can argue that a 'miracle' can be performed by someone that is neither God, nor sent by God. All that is needed is for someone to perform an action you deemed impossible.

What is needed is for God to establish God's existence, and miracles are not necessary to do that.

 

[hadit]

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

1. God has established Himself. He did so throught

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

God has established Himself a long time ago. Basically, your argument becomes that He must do a trick for every generation, because they refuse to believe otherwise.

God does not need to perform a miracle each and every generation.

In fact, I can argue that a 'miracle' can be performed by someone that is neither God, nor sent by God. All that is needed is for someone to perform an action you deemed impossible.

What is needed is for God to establish God's existence, and miracles are not necessary to do that.

And as I stated before, He HAS established his existence. The fact that man decides very quickly to disbelieve doesn't mean anything. Face it, God could touch down in the half time show at the Super Bowl, put his name in the clouds, announce His presence on every social media in the world, and within two generations, the same disbelief would take hold. We see it happening with Holocaust denial today, and that happened less than 100 years ago.

 

[amrchaos]

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

1. God has established Himself. He did so throught

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

God has established Himself a long time ago. Basically, your argument becomes that He must do a trick for every generation, because they refuse to believe otherwise.

God does not need to perform a miracle each and every generation.

In fact, I can argue that a 'miracle' can be performed by someone that is neither God, nor sent by God. All that is needed is for someone to perform an action you deemed impossible.

What is needed is for God to establish God's existence, and miracles are not necessary to do that.

And as I stated before, He HAS established his existence. The fact that man decides very quickly to disbelieve doesn't mean anything. Face it, God could touch down in the half time show at the Super Bowl, put his name in the clouds, announce His presence on every social media in the world, and within two generations, the same disbelief would take hold. We see it happening with Holocaust denial today, and that happened less than 100 years ago.

You keep talking about miracles as a means for God to establish itself when it is not necessary

and now you are claiming that Holocaust deniers represent the majority of the planet.

Think about it--to who has God established existence to?

 

[hadit]

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

1. God has established Himself. He did so throught

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

God has established Himself a long time ago. Basically, your argument becomes that He must do a trick for every generation, because they refuse to believe otherwise.

God does not need to perform a miracle each and every generation.

In fact, I can argue that a 'miracle' can be performed by someone that is neither God, nor sent by God. All that is needed is for someone to perform an action you deemed impossible.

What is needed is for God to establish God's existence, and miracles are not necessary to do that.

And as I stated before, He HAS established his existence. The fact that man decides very quickly to disbelieve doesn't mean anything. Face it, God could touch down in the half time show at the Super Bowl, put his name in the clouds, announce His presence on every social media in the world, and within two generations, the same disbelief would take hold. We see it happening with Holocaust denial today, and that happened less than 100 years ago.

You keep talking about miracles as a means for God to establish itself when it is not necessary

and now you are claiming that Holocaust deniers represent the majority of the planet.

Think about it--to who has God established existence to?

How else to demonstrate that He is in fact whom He says He is? And, God has established existence to many throughout history. The ultimate skeptic will always simply refuse to believe anything other than direct personal experience, and many times deny even that, preferring to pass off any encounter as imagined. And no, I'm not claiming Holocaust deniers represent the majority of the planet. They do, however, represent man's ability to deny even the most horrific of events.