From an outside rational observer's standpoint, Christianity is kind of absurd

[there4eyeM]

There are too many absurd beliefs to even begin. In general, people seem unable to think clearly, rationally and intelligently.
Look at how many people here don't believe republics are a form of democracy! The simplest religion is far more complex than that, and not nearly as clearly absurd.

 

[Bonzi]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

I have been on both sides. I was an atheist / agnostic until I was 38 years old. I felt people that went to church and believed in God needed something to believe in because they were too weak to face the fact that after you die, there is just nothing. Or, they were such losers they needed to belong to some sort of group, and, since the Church welcomes "all" they would start going to Church as a social.

Is that how you feel, as a non-Christian?

 

[LittleNipper]

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

1. God has established Himself. He did so throught

That will actually happen in this case, BTW:

This is why I've always maintained that it would be pointless for God to come down and do a great miracle so everyone would believe. Disbelief would immediately set it in, and within a handful of generations man would be right back to where he is now, wondering why God doesn't show Himself and insisting the evidence of the past is false. The point remains, though, that not having the same experience as another person in no way invalidates their experience.

There is something else to point out.

I made the assumption that eventually every tribesman will see an airplane earlier. I can be wrong.

If no planes fly over the area the tribe inhabits, they too, will not come to believe in the existence of airplanes.

This leads to an interesting question: Without 'proof' of airplanes, why are airplanes important to the tribe?

God has to established existence in order for that quote to become fulfilled. Until then, if there is a then, treating God like God does not exist does not affect the 'tribe'.

On the contrary, pretending God does not exist removes incentive for man to act in any way other than selfishly. Atheists become agitated when that is pointed out to them, because they want to be seen as good people. Why, if God doesn't exist and there's nothing beyond this short life, is not evident.

1st: God has to establish the self to humans in order for humans to respond to God and God's wishes. You do understand why? Anyone can write a book, proclaim visions, or claim to speak for God and all can be lying. God has to authenticate each message, else it is most likely false.

2nd I don't see how a person behavior actually changes..

Even if you do believe in God, you act in a selfish manner if you choose to follow this God or not.(If you can, since God still has to establish first himself in order to command you)

3rd Why are you fascinated about death when you still have this life to live.?

I think you are adding topics here, I think the topic was about the existence of a God and why this God has to establish himself. Not assumed benefits to believing in a particular God that may or may not exist due to the fact it has not establish to all humans, but a seleclt few(if they are telling the truth)

God has established Himself a long time ago. Basically, your argument becomes that He must do a trick for every generation, because they refuse to believe otherwise.

God does not need to perform a miracle each and every generation.

In fact, I can argue that a 'miracle' can be performed by someone that is neither God, nor sent by God. All that is needed is for someone to perform an action you deemed impossible.

What is needed is for God to establish God's existence, and miracles are not necessary to do that.

He did just that! And the result was Jesus Christ.

 

[zaangalewa]

ALL religions are absurd from an objective rational viewpoint

God is rationality himselve, so I guess you mean the absolute objective rational viewpoint of god himselve if you say so. But what said he to you when you suggested he should think all religions are absurde? Or whatelse lets you say religious human beings (= ¿all other human beings?) are not able to use their rationality?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

something else the left wants banned i suppose

 

[zaangalewa]

In defense of Christianity, it is no more absurd than any other religion. Once you accept the existance of the supernatural there are really no boundaries to what is possible to believe.

What was the universe before it existed? Supernatural, isn't it? By the way: I prefer the word "metaphysics" instead of "supernatural" - because "metaphysics" are the books behind "physics" in a christian library. Could be for example a book like "Political economy of housewives riding on a broom - or how the black cat lost the portemonnaie". Give me a not metaphysical explanation why someone not writes or writes such books.

 

[zaangalewa]

guno is right AGAIN. Back then, given human's limited knowledge base, they needed to invent a sky pixie to explain away the unexplainable. Modern man doesn't need such mythological artifice now

Exactly. Modern men live in the matrix while they abort their babies. That's the good modern reality. No one lives today in a dark age as it was in the middle ages where dark mothers loved dark babies from dark fathers and told them dark racistic stories about the good drug-addicted idiots of the 21st century.

 

[Avatar4321]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

You left out the whole Oedipus Rex thing too...

You lack understanding of the Tri-unity of GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). You believe in gravity. That is invisible. You believe in the wind. That is invisible. How many atoms have you seen lately?

What do you find supernatural / magical about the wind, atoms or gravity? There's no belief required to understand those entities.

If you believe that you have an extremely naive understanding of belief. Belief is required to understand all things.

And there is nothing supernatural or magic about God. He simply understands the natural law better than we do. After all, He created it.

 

[zaangalewa]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

Of course, explaining Mother Teresa's selfless help of the poor, downtrodden, and needy as being completely irrational is going to occupy 99% of your neurons for eternity.

So you have that going for you...

.

It is irrational--Her emotions moved her to help people. She did use some rational thought to organize, but it was emotions that drove her.

Emotions are not rational. There is no logic to them.

No one is able to think without emotions. It makes a lot of sense to try to think as good as possible and as loveful as possible. Nothing is more horrifying than a cold thinker without warm emotions.

 

[Skull Pilot]

ALL religions are absurd from an objective rational viewpoint

God is rationality himselve, so I guess you mean the absolute objective rational viewpoint of god himselve if you say so. But what said he to you when you suggested he should think all religions are absurde? Or whatelse lets you say religious human beings (= ¿all other human beings?) are not able to use their rationality?

Faith precludes rationality.

There is no empirical evidence that there is a supreme being.

 

[zaangalewa]

Think about it from a non Christian's viewpoint. Belief in an invisible man who was his own father, lived over 2,000 years ago in a series of backwater towns in the Middle East, was killed by some religious zealots, and then was magically raised from the dead three days later, after which he floated up into the sky and disappeared, thus becoming the invisible man Christians now believe in and pin all their hopes to. On top of that, Christians believe in other invisible beings: angels and demons—who are all around us, helping and influencing us. Meanwhile, another invisible Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is constantly at work behind the scenes around the earth, keeping the whole thing straight and intervening whenever He can.

Do christian realize how bizarre this seems to rational thinking people, just as other religions seem to Christians

How do you compare your Judaism with Christianity? What makes Judaism any less weird? I mean you do celebrate the murder of every first born male child in Egypt. Every year. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me.

They were an enslaved people group. Every year on the fourth of July, Americans celebrate a war that resulted in thousands of dead people. The people who fought that war weren't even slaves. There's nothing messed up with celebrating God taking action on your behalf.

You are comparing apples to rocks. Yes, the revolution did result is thousands of deaths. The majority willingly given in the pursuit of freedom. Passover is the celebration of the murder of children for the most part.

This is a outsiders viewpoint of course....

If you are an outsider then you are maybe interested in my view: God sent his angels of death. And everyone was able to keep them out with a red sign on the doorpost. And in the expression "first born" (not babies!) is maybe hidden a lot what we don't know any longer. For example the duty to do a vendetta or something like this. For sure it was important to find a legal solution. Somehow the god Pharao lost his will to fight any longer for the slavery of death against the god who did not really fight against the people only because they liked to be his enemies. He gave the freedom of life to his people. In a similiar way forces the reality all politicians and all citizens in the world today. Human ideologies of death are hurting and killing us - but to trust in god heals us and helps us to live - even if we are dead.

 

[zaangalewa]

ALL religions are absurd from an objective rational viewpoint

God is rationality himselve, so I guess you mean the absolute objective rational viewpoint of god himselve if you say so. But what said he to you when you suggested he should think all religions are absurde? Or whatelse lets you say religious human beings (= ¿all other human beings?) are not able to use their rationality?

Faith precludes rationality.

There is no empirical evidence that there is a supreme being.

"Being" has nothing to do with social classes. "Less supreme being" means dead being. "More supreme being" means living being. Whatelse could it be? So the evidence for spirit is life itselve - what's somehow the most evident thing on its own, because we are using continously spirit if we say something. Or do you think you are speaking now with an old tin can, although I had now no chance to deny evidently to be a speaking tin can, if you don't like to accept me as anything else?
About nazistic or narcistic prejudices like "faith precludes rationality" I don't discuss. But if your ideology would be "ideology precludes rationality" I would not agree 100%. Our thoughts are not completly out of our hands but are also not completly in our hands. There are different degrees of freedom. No one and nothing in this world here is 100% free or 100% right. Panta rei.

 

[Wyatt earp]

guno is right AGAIN. Back then, given human's limited knowledge base, they needed to invent a sky pixie to explain away the unexplainable. Modern man doesn't need such mythological artifice now

A post like this is why I can't stand liberals today, way to arrogant, to stuck up thinking you know everything to the point that we could change climate.

In 500~1,000 years if man survives they will look back and think how barbaric and ancient we were.

Here is a hint we still have a lot to learn

 

[Dot Com]

guno is right AGAIN. Back then, given human's limited knowledge base, they needed to invent a sky pixie to explain away the unexplainable. Modern man doesn't need such mythological artifice now

A post like this is why I can't stand liberals today, way to arrogant, to stuck up thinking you know everything to the point that we could change climate.

In 500~1,000 years if man survives they will look back and think how barbaric and ancient we were.

Here is a hint we still have a lot to learn

so YOU still need a sky pixie. Doesn't change what I posted Scooter. No wonder thumpers are taken less and less seriously.

 

[Wyatt earp]

guno is right AGAIN. Back then, given human's limited knowledge base, they needed to invent a sky pixie to explain away the unexplainable. Modern man doesn't need such mythological artifice now

A post like this is why I can't stand liberals today, way to arrogant, to stuck up thinking you know everything to the point that we could change climate.

In 500~1,000 years if man survives they will look back and think how barbaric and ancient we were.

Here is a hint we still have a lot to learn

so YOU still need a sky pixie. Doesn't change what I posted Scooter. No wonder thumpers are taken less and less seriously.

In 60 years you will need it more then I do, kiddy, just keep believing in you for now.

You will come around, they always do.

 

[Dot Com]

guno is right AGAIN. Back then, given human's limited knowledge base, they needed to invent a sky pixie to explain away the unexplainable. Modern man doesn't need such mythological artifice now

A post like this is why I can't stand liberals today, way to arrogant, to stuck up thinking you know everything to the point that we could change climate.

In 500~1,000 years if man survives they will look back and think how barbaric and ancient we were.

Here is a hint we still have a lot to learn

so YOU still need a sky pixie. Doesn't change what I posted Scooter. No wonder thumpers are taken less and less seriously.

In 60 years you will need it more then I do, kiddy, just keep believing in you for now.

You will come around, they always do.

Is English your 1st language? What is that word salad?

 

[rightwinger]

If someone were to come from outer space and saw Christians walking around with crosses around their necks, he would ask....why do they have a method of execution around their necks?

If Jesus was killed in an electric chair, would they have little electric chairs around their neck?

 

[Wyatt earp]

guno is right AGAIN. Back then, given human's limited knowledge base, they needed to invent a sky pixie to explain away the unexplainable. Modern man doesn't need such mythological artifice now

A post like this is why I can't stand liberals today, way to arrogant, to stuck up thinking you know everything to the point that we could change climate.

In 500~1,000 years if man survives they will look back and think how barbaric and ancient we were.

Here is a hint we still have a lot to learn

so YOU still need a sky pixie. Doesn't change what I posted Scooter. No wonder thumpers are taken less and less seriously.

In 60 years you will need it more then I do, kiddy, just keep believing in you for now.

You will come around, they always do.

Is English your 1st language? What is that word salad?

this comes from the child that is to lazy to even type?

 

[Wyatt earp]

If someone were to come from outer space and saw Christians walking around with crosses around their necks, he would ask....why do they have a method of execution around their necks?

If Jesus was killed in an electric chair, would they have little electric chairs around their neck?

I don't know RW, guess they would assume the story's they grew up on their planet was real... That their God was also crucified on a cross.

 

[zaangalewa]

If someone were to come from outer space and saw Christians walking around with crosses around their necks, he would ask....why do they have a method of execution around their necks?

If Jesus was killed in an electric chair, would they have little electric chairs around their neck?

Yes. I would wear an electric chair together with a gas chamber. But it's more easy for me to wear a cross with the seal of Solomon.