Free Saddam

[NightTrain]

It's an honor to have you both as members, Pegwinn & Hgrokit.

 

[HGROKIT]

your kid might be johnny war hero, and that's great.

See, you have a real lousy way with words. No matter what your hang up, guilt, fear or whatever - get a grip, seek some help.

One more time, shit happens in war! Allot of this is being blown out of proportion. Go to Bergs family and cry about how the world is afraid of us instead of inspired by us. Go tell that to the contractors that were dragged about, burned and hung from the bridge in Fallujah.

We weren't formed as a nation to inspire. The consitution you seem to care so much about mentions not one thing about inspiring other nations.

You will find good and bad everywhere. Unfortunately, our media is not telling anything of the good that is happening.

Dude, I wish you well. I strongly suggest you get out of the military. You are not even in a combat unit and it seems the stress of war is clouding your judgement and self worth.

Make another crack about my kid being "johnny war hero" and I assure you that you and I will somehow, someday meet. I guarantee you will not enjoy the meeting as much as I.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Are non militants covered under the Geneva Convention, anyone?
I would like to honestly know the answer to this.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

I think that under items (b) and (d) above, the insurgents would not be classified as POW's and therefore not subject to this paragraph. However, if you go and read all the material in the link, I am sure your head will begin to hurt as mine did.

I have my own opinion as to how to handle these scumbags, but SE didn't ask for my opinion

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NightTrain
It's an honor to have you both as members, Pegwinn & Hgrokit.

I agree. Thanks to both and all others that served.

IMO Pegwinn, thanks for finally calling him on this.

 

[SPIKESMYGOD]

Sorry, guys, but I have to agree with AmericanExpo about us already being embarrassed by our dealings with the Red Cross:

We should have told them up front to stick to conducting blood drives, keeping a good number of clean bandages on hand.....AND TO KEEP THEIR FU*KING NOSE OUT OF OUR OPERATIONS!

If they, the ACLU, or any other anti-Bush/America [same thing] group want to truly get their hands dirty investigating corruption, abuse, and the killing of thousands & thousands of innocent Iraqis, these pathetic fuc&ing pukes need to unearth the dirty evil secrets of the U.N.'s "oil-for-fraud" program & the mass graves. Oh, that's right, can't give the wonderful U.N. a black eye, just America, the only country willing & able to stop mass genocide.

Without a doubt, liberals, communists, America-hating terrorists & Jew haters like those at the U.N.- and our domestic bunch of "bums"- are complete morons.....well, that or pure evil.

They gave North Korea everything but the kitchen fu*king sink, turning a blind eye as Kim Jong Il laughed his despotic ass off & busied himself making nuclear weapons. Oh, they thought they could trust this brutal, fuc&ed-up looking little Don Ho reject, but applaud & latch onto every evil conspiracy theory about our honorable & visionary leader, President Bush.

Gee, I guess we should have used pre-emptive action against North Korea, but it's too late, thanks to The Slick One. So, one more mess thrown in Bush's lap. So, we take preemptive action against Saddam and they scream "IMPERIALIST WARMONGERS!" If we hadn't & soon found out that Saddam ALSO had nukes, they would simply throw up their useless fuc&ing hands & throw yet ANOTHER mess in President Bush's lap, no doubt creating yet another "blame America & Bush first" commission.

See, whether it is high-level Soviet spies being left in & PROMOTED in the FDR & Truman administrations; losing Cuba, setting up a human rights disaster & Soviet-backed threat in our backyard; getting us "bogged down" in a Vietnam "quagmire"; getting our boys killed in a warlord-led civil war in Somalia (funded & planned by UBL); or, under Clinton's "watch," allowing us to be attacked time & time & time & time again, responding only by issuing arrest warrants & blowing up innocent aspirin factories; or even rejecting several offers to have bin Laden handed over to us in the mid to late 90's- bringing 9/11 to our doorstep- the Democrats always fuck the world up and then demonize us for the way in which we must fix it.

Side Note: I saw a story about how freedom of speech in the form of call-in radio shows has flourished in Iraq. Funny thing, the #1 issue they bitch about is electricity, then security. However, oddly enough, the guy who runs it said that Abu Ghraib rarely comes up. However, when it does it is always in the context concerning how the caller or his/her relatives were TRULY tortured, raped, brutalized and killed there....BY SADDAM, his two decomposing sons, & their thugs! It seems that only liberals & Chris Matthews have a kinky masturbatory obsession with that one disturbing paragraph in the glorious tome which is the "American Liberation of Iraq."

Tell ya what, the liberals are right: Once June 30th arrives and the handover is accomplished, we SHOULD set Saddam free. That's right, a totally free man.....

We should put him in a Hummer, drive him to the center of Baghdad, throw him out of the vehicle, give him 29 million dinar[5 dollars], a brand new suit, wish him well, and announce to the crowd over loud speakers that their beloved leader is free & back to regain his role as their leader.

I mean, since he recently won nearly 100% of the Iraqis' votes in his last presidential election, I am sure that the Red Cross, the ACLU, & the U.N. would be quite supportive of this action, right? Nothing to fear?

Fortunately, I believe it would be very obvious that his popularity has fallen a bit. And so, once the crowd of his former victims tear him into small, mushy, bloody parts, the U.N. & the Red Cross can do what they do best: pick up a mop & do the janitors work, though I hate to besmirch janitors so.

As for the clean-up bill?:

SEND IT TO FUC&ING FRANCE & HIS OLD BITCH, CHIRAC!

 

[Annie]

:clap1: :clap1:

posted by Spike
As for the clean-up bill?:

SEND IT TO FUC&ING FRANCE & HIS OLD BITCH, CHIRAC!

Fortunately, I believe it would be very obvious that his popularity has fallen a bit. And so, once the crowd of his former victims tear him into small, mushy, bloody parts, the U.N. & the Red Cross can do what they do best: pick up a mop & do the janitors work, though I hate to besmirch janitors so.

NOW, tell us how you "really" feel!

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by SPIKESMYGOD

Fortunately, I believe it would be very obvious that his popularity has fallen a bit. And so, once the crowd of his former victims tear him into small, mushy, bloody parts, the U.N. & the Red Cross can do what they do best: pick up a mop & do the janitors work, though I hate to besmirch janitors so.

As for the clean-up bill?:

SEND IT TO FUC&ING FRANCE & HIS OLD BITCH, CHIRAC!

Go Spike,
Go Spike,
It's yer birthday

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by pegwinn
Go Spike,
Go Spike,
It's yer birthday

Pssssst! Hey pegwinn, he goes by Spikes

 

[NightTrain]

Spikes, PM me your mailing address so I can mail you down some fine sippin' whiskey!

 

[pegwinn]

Some people just don't learn. AE this is my "MSgt Gwinn counseling a young NCO/PO who means well but doesn't get it" voice. Don't confuse this with an ass chewing. If it were, you and everyone in a grid square would know it.

Originally posted by americanexpo
alright, if i'm talking down to anyone, its to the people who are sitting here advocating torture and seeing nothing wrong with us dashing away the geneva conventions, our moral authority and for god's sake, the higher standard everyone who ever served in uniform took pride in rising to and exceeding.

Originally posted by americanexpo

call me a knucklehead, call me a desk jockey, call me a preacher, it doesn't matter to me. for those who were in the military before, you had competent leadership more often than not. hell, some of you served during the glory days of reagan. you had a clear objective, with leaders who knew and followed the rules, hell even set them. we were not sending troops to fight without the proper equipment and training, we weren't taking 60 year old alliances for granted and dashing them at the instant there was a disagreement, we weren't taking extremely fantasy filled views of the consitution. Son you need to get a grip. Your generation didn't invent stupidity. The Glory days you refer to are the bad ol days to me. Our equipment was substandard and old. Reagan money initially went to big ticket stuff. I didn't get a kevlar helmet till 1986. As to setting the rules, yeah we did. Guess what, the Commanding Generals incountry now are still setting them. And the clear objective you speak of wasn't all that. For a true comparison, take a looksee. Today we are in year three of TWAT. Go back to year three of the Cold War. There was a bit of fumbling going on. Read your history closer. Marines get better history classes, but I will wait. And the allies you speak of bailed on us. After we bailed them out of two world wars. So far only the UK has stood firm.

now okay, you got civilians in the pentagon, most of whom have never served in the military or even some form of government service that called for an ounce of sacrifice, and they're telling the military what to do and how to do it. they're putting your kids, your family, out on the line and then questioning and overriding the assessments those kids make out on the field. they're telling the army to override decades of moral and discipline codes, all in the name of fighting a war on terror that their bungling is causing us to lose. Son, you are the equal of a centurian in the roman republic. Your job is to be "readier to execute than question his orders". Those civilians are doing their jobs. No one says they are perfect. But you have to wait until you are a civilian to spout off like that. AS to "overrideing" hey, Bush the elder was notorious for personally looking at battle damage assessments, and picking targets. Only communications technology has, in the past, limited the political oversight of tactical doctrine. Don't believe me, see how fast the Navy went from flags to wireless.

your kid might be johnny war hero, and that's great. i'm not, some of my friends are. some of my friends have died. they didn't start questioning what their country's leadership was doing, didn't start doubting the military, until all this mess came out. they're trying to do their job, trying to help the iraqi people out, and stabbing them right in the back is senior leadership telling junior personnel that its alright to torture and override the civilized rules of law that they've been trained and indoctorinated in. how can my ex-roommate in army civil affairs do his job getting iraqi people to work with him and his unit when the army leadership next door is authorizing those army guys to pick suspects up and torture them? you can say its a few bad apples, and it is, but its also in the system, all the way up to the top, from memos and documents and edicts that have decided to do this, straight from the top of the DOD chain of command. One more "johnny" innuendo, and I will contact the MCPON and the SgtMaj of my Marine Corps. I will locate your IP address, close with, and report your insolence. You will frogmarch the quarterdeck until I break a sweat. That one disrespectfull comment, was in a nutshell, all it took to discredit you. Just like the ABU fiasco huh?

my conscience is eating away at me because i'm serving with folks who've never heard a word of concern or complaint from their japanese hosts Hosts? Son, we are still the occupiers of Japan. We kicked off in their ass bout sixty something years ago. We are a benevolent occupier, but rest assured, we are there because we are. Not because they say so.in decades, and all of a sudden they're in an uproar. "how can you just throw away these laws? how can you ignore them? don't you see that's how we got into a big war with America? we thought we could be an empire, thought we were above the law, thought we were greater than everyone else. why are you not learning from the past?"

I"M PROUD OF MY SERVICE BUT ASHAMED OF MY LEADERSHIP. ITS NOT ACTING FOR THOSE IN UNIFORM, ITS SPEAKING FOR ITS NARROW SELF-CENTERED AGENDA THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING AMERICA A BETTER NATION OR WINNING THE WAR ON TERROR. Which leaders is that exactly. Make sure you forward this to them personally. Don't forget to add your name and rank. You are blasting off about Moral Courage, well hard charger, GET SOME

our future as a benign world leader is in jeopardy right now. we should be concerned about that. when people are more afraid of us than inspired by us, that should concern you. "When people....." is the smartest thing you've said. We are still the bright shining example. Read the letter from Col Seitz on the subject. As you said, "We are the good guys." we're supposed to be an ideal, an inspiration to indians, kenyans, brazillians and countless other groups in the world. part of being the greatest country on earth is acting like it, owning up to those responsibilities and taking a leadership role. hiding from the red cross, dismissing the concerns of well meaning (but often mis led and misdirected) human rights groups (why would they be anti-US all the time? of course they will make mistakes,but we're antagonizing them and adopting the methods of some of their greatest enemies, nations like Burma, China and Uzebekistan (two of which just happen to be prominent members of our Coalition against terror, a coalition that is doing far more to inspire more terrorists than to stop them) and running roughshod over and talking down to our allies is not helping matters.

again, we are the good guys. we're no.1 on this planet, the leading good government. that means we, especially our military, is held to a higher standard. the minute people want to stop living up to this higher standard of honor and morality, that's a day of tragedy. its not hard being the moral leader of the world, but it seems very much to me that quite a few people in this country, especially in positions of power, are getting tired of living up to that responsibility.

Understand me young Sailor. This is a professional discussion. Go see your LPO's and Leading Chiefs. You have a twisted, skewed, view. You are confusing the actions of the few with the accomplishments of the many. LAST QUESTION: If you could prevent the death of a friend thru torture.......Would you. If No, then you can sleep nights sure in your superiority. If Yes, then your friend lives but your ethics suck. It's always easier to make a moral judgement than a moral decision.

 

[Annie]

Amen

 

[HGROKIT]

QUESTION: If you could prevent the death of a friend thru torture.......Would you. If No, then you can sleep nights sure in your superiority. If Yes, then your friend lives but your ethics suck. It's always easier to make a moral judgement than a moral decision.

:clap1: :clap1:

Wished I had put it so succinctly.

You rock dude!

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by americanexpo
tell you what, you call it a high horse, i call it the difference between right and wrong

the jackasses who call this total war are wrong, i don't see the majority of you in the military, on call ready to go wherever, that's total war

Little buddy, I have more time on a crapper in a combat zone than you have in the service, assuming that you have any time at all.

You do a disservice to those in uniform by talking like a raving idiot.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
Little buddy, I have more time on a crapper in a combat zone than you have in the service, assuming that you have any time at all.

You do a disservice to those in uniform by talking like a raving idiot.

Put em on shit burn'n detail!

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
I have a feeling we may have seen the last of Expo!

Ya know, I was just thinking that myself this morning.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by HGROKIT
Ya know, I was just thinking that myself this morning.

We can certainly hope!

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
As Kathianne said "let's hope!" well not if he is just going to be a whiner anyway!

Yeah, I do feel for the guy though - seems he has some reconcilliation in his mind to do.

 

[NightTrain]

Negative. He's using equipment owned by the U.S. Navy, coming to us live from Japan.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by NightTrain
Negative. He's using equipment owned by the U.S. Navy, coming to us live from Japan.

ping him?