Zone1 For the Love of God...

[onefour1]

I understand...faith based on logic and reasoning. It still stands that that it is all shrouded in mystery and supposition.

Genesis says God made man out of the clay of the earth and breathed life (spirit/intelligence) into the first man. I see the power of God in this, so much power, that life and intelligence flowed from God to the first man to all his descendants.

While again it is supposition wrapped in a mystery, our spirits may have been birthed here along with our bodies. I am equally divided between the two possibilities. Mystery. I don't know which is the reality.

We believe our spirits ( our intelligence combined with spirit matter) were born in heaven. Later Adam's physical body was made from the dust of the earth and through the process of procreation we are all the children of Adam and Eve as well. We believe that it was our spirits that fought in the war in heaven against Satan and his minions before coming to this earth. One of Satan's and his minions punishment for their open rebellion was that they were denied receiving a body of flesh and bones on this earth and in the hereafter.

 

[onefour1]

Why do you believe God has an immortal body of flesh and bones?

The primary reason I believe this is because Joseph Smith received a revelation stating that the Father and Son both have bodies of flesh and bones but the Holy Ghost does not.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

I believe that the progression of Jesus Christ would be to become just like his Father in heaven. Thus when Jesus was resurrected, I believe he became more like his Father by receiving an immortal body of flesh and bones.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

And as a previously quoted verse states, we receive a fulness of joy when inseparably connected with elements.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

 

[ding]

The primary reason I believe this is because Joseph Smith received a revelation stating that the Father and Son both have bodies of flesh and bones but the Holy Ghost does not.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

I believe that the progression of Jesus Christ would be to become just like his Father in heaven. Thus when Jesus was resurrected, I believe he became more like his Father by receiving an immortal body of flesh and bones.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

And as a previously quoted verse states, we receive a fulness of joy when inseparably connected with elements.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Do you believe it is possible for you to become a god in the afterlife, be a ruler of your own heavenly kingdom, have spirit children, and increase in power and glory forever?

 

[Meriweather]

But, but, to address my first point, Christians are not required to reconcile any written document with their faith, God, Christ, etc., Agree or disagree?

I am not sure I understand the question. For example, there is the Bible, Catechisms, etc. Is that what you mean?

 

[LibertyKid]

I am not sure I understand the question. For example, there is the Bible, Catechisms, etc. Is that what you mean?

In order to be "christian" one must believe that the Bible is the "Word of God".

 

[onefour1]

Do you believe it is possible for you to become a god in the afterlife, be a ruler of your own heavenly kingdom, have spirit children, and increase in power and glory forever?

Yes.

We believe that as the offspring (Acts 17:29) of God, we are already considered gods per Psalms 82:6 and John 10:31-36. While in this life we are not gods to the extent that we have our own kingdom and rule over those of our own worlds, we do believe that Gods beget gods. However, we do believe that we can become like our Father in Heaven and go on in the afterlife and become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads unto this greatest of blessings because few there be that are willing to follow in the path that leads to eternal life. All mankind will achieve immortality but not all will achieve eternal life which is a life like God's life. Through modern revelation we learn of the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:15-27
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

So basically this is saying that unless you enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage for time and all eternity, you cannot achieve godhood. The new and everlasting covenant of marriage consists of being married not only for time but for all eternity by one who holds the power of this priesthood. Those who enter this new and everlasting covenant of marriage will be able to have spirit children in the hereafter and have an eternal increase. If one has received this blessing, the only way to lose it is by committing the unpardonable sin of shedding innocent blood after receiving so great a blessing. For all other sins you will undergo the buffetings of Satan until the day of your redemption. These marriages are sealed upon the recipients in the Temples that are created for this purpose. We believe that sealing marriages for time and all eternity is part of the sealing power given to Peter as found in the following verse:

Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

[BreezeWood]

For me, the best answer came from studying Genesis from the Jewish perspective. Their insights make sense as well.

1. God made the earth good--not perfect.
2. God brings good out of evil.
3. Mankind wanted to be like God. They wanted knowledge, and they wanted to know both good and evil.
4. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the center of the garden, showing its importance. It was not put there as a temptation.
5. The reason God forbade them to eat of the tree was because its fruit was not yet ripe. Eve and Adam jumped the gun and ate the fruit before it was ready, with the reported results.
6. God was in their midst then, and has remained in our midst throughout the ages. While we may have some knowledge of good and evil, we do not yet have full knowledge of good and evil. But we are learning.

5. The reason God forbade them to eat of the tree was because its fruit was not yet ripe. Eve and Adam

really, good and evil were not yet quite ripe enough to understand ... or they, a&e were not ready as the christian god thought otherwise than knowledge for its own sake.

however christianity twists the mythology their underscore of a sin will disavow them from ever understanding the truth.

 

[BreezeWood]

In order to be "christian" one must believe that the Bible is the "Word of God".

no - they would have to believe that was what jesus claimed to have been a messiah whether the claim was made or not, the 4th century c-bible is not an authority for anything than what they madeup at that time.

and as jesus did not leave in script or any other form of communication such a claim is more proof than not the c-bible is in error.

 

[ding]

Yes.

We believe that as the offspring (Acts 17:29) of God, we are already considered gods per Psalms 82:6 and John 10:31-36. While in this life we are not gods to the extent that we have our own kingdom and rule over those of our own worlds, we do believe that Gods beget gods. However, we do believe that we can become like our Father in Heaven and go on in the afterlife and become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads unto this greatest of blessings because few there be that are willing to follow in the path that leads to eternal life. All mankind will achieve immortality but not all will achieve eternal life which is a life like God's life. Through modern revelation we learn of the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:15-27
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

So basically this is saying that unless you enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage for time and all eternity, you cannot achieve godhood. The new and everlasting covenant of marriage consists of being married not only for time but for all eternity by one who holds the power of this priesthood. Those who enter this new and everlasting covenant of marriage will be able to have spirit children in the hereafter and have an eternal increase. If one has received this blessing, the only way to lose it is by committing the unpardonable sin of shedding innocent blood after receiving so great a blessing. For all other sins you will undergo the buffetings of Satan until the day of your redemption. These marriages are sealed upon the recipients in the Temples that are created for this purpose. We believe that sealing marriages for time and all eternity is part of the sealing power given to Peter as found in the following verse:

Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Is there a hierarchy for all the gods.

 

[onefour1]

Is there a hierarchy for all the gods.

I believe that we will forever honor our Father in Heaven and our Lord Jesus Christ even if we go on to create our own worlds and people them with our offspring. Just as we honor our own parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, etc., I think as we bring about the salvation and exaltation upon our offspring, this gives more honor and glory to those who have come before us. Perhaps in this way their is a hierarchy. But as immortal beings, I do not believe we ever get old and we always continue to have more and more offspring. God tells us in scripture the following:

Moses 1:37-39
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

 

[Donald H]

Our religious faith/denomination--or even lack thereof--is sacred to each of us and is the holy ground in each of our lives. It is our love for God.

Or lack thereof is sacred to each of us, etc., etc?

Clearly that's a contradiction and a bad start. You're better than that.

 

[Meriweather]

Or lack thereof is sacred to each of us, etc., etc?

Clearly that's a contradiction and a bad start. You're better than that.

Shrug. Dare to read my posts and prepare to be disappointed.

'Sacred' and its definitions came up when one of the atheists in my family, brought it up. He pointed out one of the definitions of 'sacred' is secured against violation, infringement... We were talking about how atheists seemed to be fair game for proselytizers who felt they had the right to infringe on atheists. His position is non-belief is as 'sacred' to his way of life as belief is to those following a religion.

A new person had come into his life, saw him as a good person doing good things and assumed he was a man of faith. Upon learning he is an atheist the proselytizing began. I told him (teasingly) he was a pearl of great price and the Kingdom was searching high and low for such people.

 

[ding]

I believe that we will forever honor our Father in Heaven and our Lord Jesus Christ even if we go on to create our own worlds and people them with our offspring. Just as we honor our own parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, etc., I think as we bring about the salvation and exaltation upon our offspring, this gives more honor and glory to those who have come before us. Perhaps in this way their is a hierarchy. But as immortal beings, I do not believe we ever get old and we always continue to have more and more offspring. God tells us in scripture the following:

Moses 1:37-39
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

But they could just be one on billions of Gods, right? You don't really know which God was the first or even if there was a first God, right?

 

[Donald H]

Shrug. Dare to read my posts and prepare to be disappointed.

'Sacred' and its definitions came up when one of the atheists in my family, brought it up. He pointed out one of the definitions of 'sacred' is secured against violation, infringement... We were talking about how atheists seemed to be fair game for proselytizers who felt they had the right to infringe on atheists. His position is non-belief is as 'sacred' to his way of life as belief is to those following a religion.

A new person had come into his life, saw him as a good person doing good things and assumed he was a man of faith. Upon learning he is an atheist the proselytizing began. I told him (teasingly) he was a pearl of great price and the Kingdom was searching high and low for such people.

I think your religion is causing you to live a life of lies, and you're the kind of person who has to try to reconcile those lies with the real world.

Please don't take that as an insult. It's my opinion after having talked to believers of various levels of intelligence.

My brother's wife is a devout Catholic who believes the bible is to be accepted literally with no exceptions, and she's quite content with her faith. But she's one of the most generous and kind people I've ever met.

 

[Meriweather]

My brother's wife is a devout Catholic who believes the bible is to be accepted literally with no exceptions, and she's quite content with her faith. But she's one of the most generous and kind people I've ever met.

Yes, Catholicism is equally accepting of those, like your sister-in-law, who believe Biblical accounts are always literal, and others, like me, who do not. For me, it is the lessons within the accounts that are always literal, but not always the story that presented the lesson. Those who take every word literally, understand the lesson.

It often seems that some atheists who cannot take every word literally, don't even see the lesson, let alone understand it. They are too distracted by symbolism, allegories, and metaphors.

 

[Meriweather]

I think your religion is causing you to live a life of lies, and you're the kind of person who has to try to reconcile those lies with the real world.

You may think that, but what I know--and know absolutely--I am living a life of truth. God is. I know it because I have experienced Him. This is something you will never accept, let alone understand. Blessed are those who believe without seeing. I have seen, and so to me, those are some of the most vital words in the Bible. Faith is a great gift to be treasured.

 

[Donald H]

Yes, Catholicism is equally accepting of those, like your sister-in-law, who believe Biblical accounts are always literal, and others, like me, who do not. For me, it is the lessons within the accounts that are always literal, but not always the story that presented the lesson. Those who take every word literally, understand the lesson.

The Catholic church won't talk to her with honesty because she couldn't accept that and it would destroy her happy and content life. Nor will I dispute anything she says or believes.
But the modern Catholic church can be much more honest with you if any of the fantasy topics are raised. The priest needs to know each member of the flock personally, and in general must not broach the topic of what is to be literally believed in the bibles.

It often seems that some atheists who cannot take every word literally, don't even see the lesson, let alone understand it.

Of course neither of us take every word literally, so what it 'seems' for atheists is also what it 'seems' for highly intelligent Christians.

They are too distracted by symbolism, allegories, and metaphors.

As you have carelessly suggested, we have that in common.

 

[ding]

The Catholic church won't talk to her with honesty because she couldn't accept that and it would destroy her happy and content life. Nor will I dispute anything she says or believes.
But the modern Catholic church can be much more honest with you if any of the fantasy topics are raised. The priest needs to know each member of the flock personally, and in general must not broach the topic of what is to be literally believed in the bibles.

Of course neither of us take every word literally, so what it 'seems' for atheists is also what it 'seems' for highly intelligent Christians.

As you have carelessly suggested, we have that in common.

It's odd that every biblical argument you make involves you reading the accounts literally. So you were either being dishonest then or you are being dishonest now.

 

[Donald H]

You may think that, but what I know--and know absolutely--I am living a life of truth. God is. I know it because I have experienced Him. This is something you will never accept, let alone understand. Blessed are those who believe without seeing. I have seen, and so to me, those are some of the most vital words in the Bible. Faith is a great gift to be treasured.

If you want a conversation, be patient and wait for my reply. Butting in to the conversation is not going to save your ears from hearing or your eyes from seeing.

Ding was incapable of that patience and he betrayed to me and some others that he was weak on his confidence in what he believed.

 

[nomadic5]

I don't feel the need to convince anyone of anything.

But as a Christian you share your faith like you would throwing someone a life vest.

It's no skin off my teeth if they don't grab it, but you should throw it anyway knowing they may not grab it.

I concur. Jesus has the power to save and no one else does, not Buddha, not Krishna, not Jim Jones.

I know what Jesus has done for me and so I share my experiences with others as per the request of Jesus Himself who said to go into the world and preach His Gospel. Those who believe and are baptized will be saved, those who do not are condemned. Seems pretty clear...