First indications to support PP shooting as anti-abortion terrorism

[martybegan]

Pay special attention to the bolded part. You douche sticks who are so desperate to create a culture built on false allegations of selling baby parts hold a degree of blame.

What moved a man to kill three people and wound nine others at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado has not been disclosed. But the suspect accused of carrying out the shooting spree, Robert Lewis Dear, made remarks about "baby parts" to investigators after his surrender, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Dear, 57, told them he has anti-abortion and anti-government views, but that doesn't mean those opinions were his motive for allegedly shooting up the Colorado Springs clinic on Friday, the official said. It's too early to tell, as investigators are still processing evidence.

Source: Colorado shooting suspect spoke of 'baby parts' - CNN.com

Do you think the fact Planned Parenthood sells baby parts should have been kept from the public? Should that be a secret?

There are no facts in that question.

It is a fact Planned Parenthood sells baby parts. This is a fact. Not even Planned Parenthood denies they sell baby parts now.

So tell us, should that have been kept a secret?

If it could prevent your pals from committing acts of terror against PP, then yes, maybe it would have saved lives to keep it a secret.

So hiding the truth in any situation where some whack job can take it the wrong way is now a good idea?

What about hiding an opinion so some whack job doesn't take it the wrong way?

Family Research Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The gunman was interviewed by the FBI.[21] Law enforcement officials said that the suspect, 28-year-old Floyd Corkins II, a resident of nearby Herndon, Virginia, had served as a volunteer at a LGBT community center.[19][22] The FBI and the Metropolitan Police Department investigated jointly "to determine motive/intent and whether a hate crime/terrorism nexus exists." During his FBI interview Corkins was asked how he chose his target. His response was "Southern Poverty Law, lists...uh...anti-gay groups. I found them online".[23][24] Corkins appeared in court the following day and was charged with assault with intent to kill while armed and interstate transportation of a firearm and ammunition.[25] An affidavit filed in the case stated that Corkins had told the guard "words to the effect of 'I don't like your politics.'"[26][27]

 

[g5000]

If a person is competent to stand trial, then the trial does determine if they DID IT OR NOT.

You seem seriously ignorant of our judicial process and our Constitution.

You and I are talking about different 'specific' cases. You are talking about cases that are in doubt. I am talking about cases in which people admit to the crimes and claim 'insanity' or caught undeniably red-handed and insanity is claimed. in cases where guilt is not in question, I think it is preposterous to claim 'INNOCENT' because of 'insanity'. If you DID it, if you ADMIT to doing it, you are GUILTY...period - you DID IT!

I guess you aren't from America, so allow me to explain how our Constitution works.

If a person is accused of a crime, even if they are caught red-handed, they must be tried in court. It doesn't matter if they killed someone in front of 50 witnesses on live TV, they must be tried in court.

Now...for a person to be tried in court, they must be able to mount a defense. In order to mount a defense of oneself, one must be competent to stand trial. If the competency of the defendant is in question, then we have doctors examine that person. If they find the person competent to stand trial, they stand trial. If they are not found competent, they are turned over to a mental institution until such time as they are found competent.

Then, if it is determined they were unable to discern the difference between right and wrong when they committed their crime, they are found legally insane. In such a case, they are remanded to psychiatric treatment.

This humanitarian treatment of the insane goes back thousands of years.

 

[g5000]

Pay special attention to the bolded part. You douche sticks who are so desperate to create a culture built on false allegations of selling baby parts hold a degree of blame.

What moved a man to kill three people and wound nine others at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado has not been disclosed. But the suspect accused of carrying out the shooting spree, Robert Lewis Dear, made remarks about "baby parts" to investigators after his surrender, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Dear, 57, told them he has anti-abortion and anti-government views, but that doesn't mean those opinions were his motive for allegedly shooting up the Colorado Springs clinic on Friday, the official said. It's too early to tell, as investigators are still processing evidence.

Source: Colorado shooting suspect spoke of 'baby parts' - CNN.com

Do you think the fact Planned Parenthood sells baby parts should have been kept from the public? Should that be a secret?

There are no facts in that question.

It is a fact Planned Parenthood sells baby parts. This is a fact. Not even Planned Parenthood denies they sell baby parts now.

So tell us, should that have been kept a secret?

If it could prevent your pals from committing acts of terror against PP, then yes, maybe it would have saved lives to keep it a secret.

Wow.

So we should keep the fact Hillary Clinton lies a secret. Or the fact Donald Trump lies a secret. Because some imbalanced person might shoot them for being lying assholes.

 

[easyt65]

It's easy for you to prove if you are right.

List the Muslim organizations whose stated goal is the extermination of all non-Muslims, and then list the numbers of their memberships, verifiable by some reasonable measure,

and then we'll add them up and see how many 'millions' we come up with.

NY, I am not a kind of guy who believes every member of a group should be condemned by the actions of a few...that would be Liberals...in regards to Conservatives and Republicans.

I will add this to the conversation to 'spice up' the discussion, though:

Obama has declared Islam is peaceful, tolerant, etc...that Islamic Extremists are as safe as tourists who come to the United States, that valid citizen concern for our safety after repeated terrorist attacks and the allowed deaths of Americans is cowardice, fear of 'widows and orphans'...that there is nothing to fear from Islam...


Do Christians believe in the bible?
- YES

Are they truly Christians if they pick and choose what parts of the Bible they like, that they are willing to believe and follow, ignoring the rest?
- NO

Then do Muslims - believers of Islam - believe in the Quran...the Hadith?
- YES

Are true followers of Islam allowed to pick and choose what to believe, to ignore whatever they want in the Quran...in the Hadith?
- NO

FOUND IN THE QURAN:


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran)
- The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
- Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.


Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
- The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.


Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
- Those who reject the teachings of Islam are content to be on the same level as Islam….Followers of Islam should not be willing to be ‘on the same level’ as other religions but should eliminate those other religions by slaying those other believers.


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
- No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (31:5918) - "I will fight them until they are like us."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"
- The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
- Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

ARGUMENT:
There are parts of the Old Testament in the Bible like this that no longer apply either:
-- Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

LINK: The Quran's Verses of Violence

 

[easyt65]

I guess you aren't from America, so....

Hey g,



I know how the Constitution works. You and I just have different opinions on how the defense of 'insanity' should work for those who have already confessed their guilt.

Take your self-professes dime-store pseudo-Intellectualism and stick it up where your head is...up Obama's arse.

 

[g5000]

It's easy for you to prove if you are right.

List the Muslim organizations whose stated goal is the extermination of all non-Muslims, and then list the numbers of their memberships, verifiable by some reasonable measure,

and then we'll add them up and see how many 'millions' we come up with.

NY, I am not a kind of guy who believes every member of a group should be condemned by the actions of a few...that would be Liberals...in regards to Conservatives and Republicans.

I will add this to the conversation to 'spice up' the discussion, though:

Obama has declared Islam is peaceful, tolerant, etc...that Islamic Extremists are as safe as tourists who come to the United States, that valid citizen concern for our safety after repeated terrorist attacks and the allowed deaths of Americans is cowardice, fear of 'widows and orphans'...that there is nothing to fear from Islam...


Do Christians believe in the bible?
- YES

Are they truly Christians if they pick and choose what parts of the Bible they like, that they are willing to believe and follow, ignoring the rest?
- NO

Then do Muslims - believers of Islam - believe in the Quran...the Hadith?
- YES

Are true followers of Islam allowed to pick and choose what to believe, to ignore whatever they want in the Quran...in the Hadith?
- NO

FOUND IN THE QURAN:


Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran)
- The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
- Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.


Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
- The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.


Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
- Those who reject the teachings of Islam are content to be on the same level as Islam….Followers of Islam should not be willing to be ‘on the same level’ as other religions but should eliminate those other religions by slaying those other believers.


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
- No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (31:5918) - "I will fight them until they are like us."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"
- The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
- Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

ARGUMENT:
There are parts of the Old Testament in the Bible like this that no longer apply either:
-- Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

It's cute watching a bigoted ignoramus trying to explain the Quran. Especially when they are copying and pasting the work of other bigots.

 

[mdk]

NY, I am not a kind of guy who believes every member of a group should be condemned by the actions of a few...that would be Liberals...in regards to Conservatives and Republicans.

The first half of your sentence doesn't match up with the second half of your sentence.

 

[mdk]

I am not the kind of person to speak in broad generalizations, but why are the Irish such drunken brawlers? lol

 

[easyt65]

It's cute watching a bigoted ignoramus trying to explain the Quran. Especially when they are copying and pasting the work of other bigots.

And I think it is 'cute' when ignorant Liberals who throw out opinion and declare themselves to be experts are suddenly faced with actual facts, links, and direct quoted 'scripture' that contradicts everything you profess to be true..because YOU say so....and the only thing you can respond with is personal attacks, 'tap dancing', and 'obfuscation'....

 

[NYcarbineer]

A pro-life organization praised the last guy to murder an abortion doctor.
Army of God - Pro-Life Virginia

Yeah, I heard of that group.... I read if you are white, a Christian, and believe in LIFE / oppose abortion at ANY point during pregnancy that you are an automatic member of the group and they automatically speak for you....

It's an anti-abortion group that endorses terrorism. That's what the other poster was claiming doesn't exist.

You didn't post or even reference the other groups that condemned the killing, but of course digging up one fringe of the fringe of the fringe group helps you narrative, and groups like Operation Rescue condemning the shooting doesnt.

Groups condemning the terrorism was not the topic.

 

[g5000]

It's cute watching a bigoted ignoramus trying to explain the Quran. Especially when they are copying and pasting the work of other bigots.

And I think it is 'cute' when ignorant Liberals who throw out opinion and declare themselves to be experts are suddenly faced with actual facts, links, and direct quoted 'scripture' that contradicts everything you profess to be true..because YOU say so....and the only thing you can respond with is personal attacks, 'tap dancing', and 'obfuscation'....

There are parts of the Bible which can be taken out of context to portray Christianity as a violent religion, too, jackass.

You suffer from an extreme case of confirmation bias. I hope you never go into journalism. If you do, I think you will find a home at Breitbart or Fox News.

 

[easyt65]

The first half of your sentence doesn't match up with the second half of your sentence.

Just reflecting the Liberal mindset...

 

[NYcarbineer]

So when an anti-abortion Christian shoots an abortion doctor, because that person is an abortion doctor, and the killer cites his religion as his motivation/justification,

he's not a rightwing Christian terrorist?

Why do Liberals ONLY INSIST in 'PERSONAL' accountability when someone who does something wrong happens to be a Christian or a Conservative?

?

So you deny that the above description is not one of a rightwing Christian terrorist.

What would one have to do to be a rightwing Christian terrorist?

 

[easyt65]

There are parts of the Bible which can be taken out of context to portray Christianity as a violent religion, too, jackass.

Yeah, this was addressed in my post...but you and Obama just keep making excuses about the 'peaceful, tolerant' Muslims....

 

[NYcarbineer]

We go through this RWnut bullshit every time these incidents occur.

Summation:

The modern American conservative consensus is that there is no such thing as a conservative Christian terrorist, there is no such thing as an anti-abortion terrorist.

That is the dementia of the right once again rearing its demented head.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

There are parts of the Bible which can be taken out of context to portray Christianity as a violent religion, too, jackass.

Yeah, this was addressed in my post...but you and Obama just keep making excuses about the 'peaceful, tolerant' Muslims....

So in other words you think all Muslims are terrorists.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

We go through this RWnut bullshit every time these incidents occur.

Summation:

The modern American conservative consensus is that there is no such thing as a conservative Christian terrorist, there is no such thing as an anti-abortion terrorist.

That is the dementia of the right once again rearing its demented head.

LOL! Sorry, white people can't be terrorists. There are a few bad apples, but those are just individuals.

Brown people on the other hand are all the same.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are parts of the Bible which can be taken out of context to portray Christianity as a violent religion, too, jackass.

Yeah, this was addressed in my post...but you and Obama just keep making excuses about the 'peaceful, tolerant' Muslims....

Why would one have to make excuses for peaceful, tolerant Muslims? Isn't their peacefulness and tolerance enough?

 

[mdk]

The first half of your sentence doesn't match up with the second half of your sentence.

Just reflecting the Liberal mindset...

You are doing exactly what you accuses liberals of doing. Broad generalizations are tools for the intellectually lazy.

 

[g5000]

There are parts of the Bible which can be taken out of context to portray Christianity as a violent religion, too, jackass.

Yeah, this was addressed in my post...but you and Obama just keep making excuses about the 'peaceful, tolerant' Muslims....

Yes, your source from which you copied and pasted like a good little parroting rube attempted to say all those violent parts in the Bible no longer apply while all the violent parts in the Quran do.

That dog don't hunt, sucker.

You claim to have a journalism degree, and yet you plagiarized without attribution. I hope you never get a job as a reporter and drag down whatever institution hires you.