"Far Right" can't win for GOP? ...BS!

[Boss]

Well Skylar, it may not be Cruz. I am perfectly capable of making mistakes. I can't speak for Cruz... or Conservatives for that matter. This is why we have primaries and we can evaluate the field. We're not even sure what the field is yet, so it's hard to say if Cruz is the man. It may be Scott Walker or Marco Rubio or Rand Paul... all very much in the mix right now.

I think it will have to be someone who understands conservative philosophy and can articulate it as a philosophy and not an ideology the way Reagan did, or the GOP is going to get creamed by Hillary Clinton & Company. The solution is not to run away from Conservatism.

 

[Boss]

Mindless Liberal ranting is all I am hearing now... Flood the board with your props and talking points from MediaMatters and MoveOn.org, and filibuster the thread for a few pages until you whip the idiot "moderates" into shape.

Nope. Just Gallup ....

And Pew.....with Pew being your own source.

And you'll give us nothing but excuses why you'll ignore them all.

Oh, and remember: you've presented jack shit to back your claim that most people are conservative. Or to back the laughable lie that every poll ever conducted shows that most people are conservative. While I've disproven both claims with 2 polling agencies and 20 years worth of polling data that explicitly contradict you.

Try again.

Again, your graphs are all irrelevant because they compare conservatism with liberalism as an ideology. Conservatism is the antithesis of radical 'ideology' of any kind. So the fact that you control the media and you can manipulate some polls to 'prove' your point, your polls are based on a fallacy.

 

[Skylar]

Well Skylar, it may not be Cruz.

Crux is merely a real world benchmark. An answer to the question 'what is 'far right' '. By your own admission, Cruz is far right. And no one wants him. Not conservative primary voters, not the electorate in general. His views are overwhelmingly out of sync with the electorate.

Cruz is a living, breathing demonstration that your 'theory' is meaningless babble.

As for Cruz being extreme.......the DW Nominate scale is the most commonly used metric of political leaning used in Washington. It measures the political spectrum, with 1.0 being the most extreme conservative position possible and a -1.0 being the most extreme liberal position possible. With a 0.0 being perfectly moderate.

Cruz scores a 0.95. That's nearly the most extreme score ever recorded by the DW Nominate scale in its 30 year history. But you insist Cruz is 'mainstream'?

Nope.

 

[Skylar]

Mindless Liberal ranting is all I am hearing now... Flood the board with your props and talking points from MediaMatters and MoveOn.org, and filibuster the thread for a few pages until you whip the idiot "moderates" into shape.

Nope. Just Gallup ....

And Pew.....with Pew being your own source.

And you'll give us nothing but excuses why you'll ignore them all.

Oh, and remember: you've presented jack shit to back your claim that most people are conservative. Or to back the laughable lie that every poll ever conducted shows that most people are conservative. While I've disproven both claims with 2 polling agencies and 20 years worth of polling data that explicitly contradict you.

Try again.

Again, your graphs are all irrelevant because they compare conservatism with liberalism as an ideology. Conservatism is the antithesis of radical 'ideology' of any kind. So the fact that you control the media and you can manipulate some polls to 'prove' your point, your polls are based on a fallacy.

Says you, pretending to speak for every person answering the polling questions for the last 20 years. And you can provide exactly jack shit to back anything you've imagined.

Meanwhile, we have the actual answers of folks themselves when asked if they are conservative, liberal or moderate for the last 20 years. And 58% of folks say they're moderate or liberal. You claim to know better. You don't. You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

While each of the individuals that responded to the Gallup poll over the last 20 years has been the world's leading experts on their own ideology. Why would I ignore them and instead believe you, pretending that you know better?

There is no reason. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

All you can do is ignore the evidence. Which is why you lost.

 

[Boss]

I'm not wasting any more time arguing with a liberal about who should be Hillary's opponent. It seems rather pointless to me, other than to demonstrate to idiot 'moderates' like Jakey how worried the lefties are of Conservatism.

 

[Skylar]

I'm not wasting any more time arguing with a liberal about who should be Hillary's opponent. It seems rather pointless to me, other than to demonstrate to idiot 'moderates' like Jakey how worried the lefties are of Conservatism.

Translation: You've got jack shit to back any of the nonsense you've said.

And I've got overwhelming evidence, 2 respected polling agencies, 20 years of polling data, tens of thousands of polling respondents, Cruz's incompatibility with the views held by most Americans, his abysmal polling results both for the GOP primary and among the general electorate, and the most widely used scale of political polarity in Washington.

All contradicting you.

So you're gonna pout and ignore it all. Ignore away. Reality doesn't disappear just because you close your eyes.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The problem is that should republicans fail to win the WH in 2016, and lose the Senate as well, because voters reject the GOP's far right agenda, the OP won't return to this tread and admit he was wrong.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The problem is that should republicans fail to win the WH in 2016, and lose the Senate as well, because voters reject the GOP's far right agenda, the OP won't return to this tread and admit he was wrong.

People like me won't vote for the republicans if they run on a anti-infrastructure, science, r&d and education platform. It will make it easier not to do so if the pro-criminal element would just be quite.

 

[Synthaholic]

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that 'Boss' is just mindlessly trolling. Doesn't matter how much data you show him.

 

[Skylar]

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that 'Boss' is just mindlessly trolling. Doesn't matter how much data you show him.

You can't use evidence to convince someone who doesn't use evidence.

I'm not posting for Boss. That poor soul is hopelessly delusional. I'm posting for anyone who uses evidence. As its all on one side of this issue.

 

[edthecynic]

The problem is that should republicans fail to win the WH in 2016, and lose the Senate as well, because voters reject the GOP's far right agenda, the OP won't return to this tread and admit he was wrong.

If the GOP loses the presidential election, Bossy will claim it was because the candidate was not an "articulate" enough CON$ervative, even if it was Cruz or Walker, etc.

 

[candycorn]

The problem is that should republicans fail to win the WH in 2016, and lose the Senate as well, because voters reject the GOP's far right agenda, the OP won't return to this tread and admit he was wrong.

If the GOP loses the presidential election, Bossy will claim it was because the candidate was not an "articulate" enough CON$ervative, even if it was Cruz or Walker, etc.

Everyone will get blamed except the fact that it's a philosophy/mindset/whatever that has long since passed it's time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Boss will not read the truth when it is right in front of him.

38% of the country is conservative, and the great majority of that is not far right.

 

[Boss]

Boss will not read the truth when it is right in front of him.

38% of the country is conservative, and the great majority of that is not far right.

There is no "far right" Conservatism. The majority of people in general are conservative, always have been, always will be. What needs to be rejected are rigid ideologues. They are the problem in Washington. Whether it's Democrat Liberal ideologues or Republican ideologues who are just as bad but want their share of power. We're in a mess right now, fiscally, foreign relations-wise, domestic policy-wise, you name it. Mostly because of extremist ideologues who keep pushing bigger and bigger government.

I am DONE with Republicans telling me they are "conservative" then capitulating every chance they get to Democrats while telling me "it's the best we could do." It's time for someone with some balls to stand up and reject the liberal nonsense and false narrative regarding Conservatism. If you don't want to be a part of that, fuck off. I couldn't care less.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Conservative, Moderate, Liberal - are IDEOLOGUES
Republican, Democrat, Independent - are party affiliations

You can try to redefine a rabbit as a squirrel, but it ain't gonna work.

You're wrong and I've already demonstrated how you are wrong, you're just ignoring my argument. Conservatism is not an ideology. A libertarian conservative and social conservative are both conservatives with conservative philosophies, however they share very little in the way of ideology. The libertarian conservative is ideologically in favor of more personal freedom... women should be allowed the right to abortions, gays should be allowed to marry, people should be allowed to buy, sell and use pot... a social conservative totally disagrees with all of this and their ideology is also based on a conservative philosophy. So we see that the clear evidence shows Conservatism is not an ideology. It's simply not driven by ideology.

Conservatism is the moderate alternative to radicalism. Radicals can take the form of basically any ideology but mostly what we see in American politics is a radical left. The radical right is virtually non-existent and don't generally factor into the elections.

I am not trying to redefine a thing. I am stating clear and concise facts that anyone can go look up for themselves. Start with the dictionary definition of a conservative... they are the opposite of a radical. The definition of a "moderate" (political) is essentially the same as a conservative.

I'm not ignoring your argument. I've heard it, considered it, and determined that IMHO it's a load of crap. Trying to re-define terms to suit YOU and your put ideological leanings in the best light possible.

If you look up "vote by ideology" then you get a breakdown of Liberal, Moderate, and Conservative. Doesn't matter if YOU think they aren't ideologies - everyone else on the planet defines them as ideologies.

YOU don't get to re-define words at your whim. Sorry.

 

[Skylar]

Boss will not read the truth when it is right in front of him.

38% of the country is conservative, and the great majority of that is not far right.

There is no "far right" Conservatism.

Bullshit. Cruz is a far right conservative. His views don't align with the overwhelming majority of the electorate. He's far to the right of most of them. On the DW Nominate Scale with 1.0 being the most extreme conservative position you can hold, -1.0 being the most liberal position you can hold and 0.0 being perfectly moderate....

Cruz scores a 0.95. Nearly the most extreme score the DW Nominate Scaling method has recorded in its 30 year history.

But that's not 'far right'? Of course it is. You're simply delusional.

The majority of people in general are conservative, always have been, always will be.

Says you, citing you. You've never been able to back that bullshit up with anything. Worse for you, I've actively disproven your claims:

Conservatives have never been 'most people' in the 20 year history of Gallup has been asking people if they are Liberal, Moderate or Conservative. With 58% of people self identifying as Liberal or Moderate.

And Gallup is hardly alone:

That's only 27 mostly or consistently conservative. With 73% mixed, mostly liberal or mostly consistently liberal. And Pew has been polling on this for 20 years as well.

Yet you ignore all polling, ignore 20 years of measurements, ignore the tens of thousands of people that have responded to these polls....and merely imagine that you know better.

Nope.

 

[Skylar]

I'm not ignoring your argument. I've heard it, considered it, and determined that IMHO it's a load of crap. Trying to re-define terms to suit YOU and your put ideological leanings in the best light possible.

If you look up "vote by ideology" then you get a breakdown of Liberal, Moderate, and Conservative. Doesn't matter if YOU think they aren't ideologies - everyone else on the planet defines them as ideologies.

YOU don't get to re-define words at your whim. Sorry.

Exactly.

 

[Boss]

Conservative, Moderate, Liberal - are IDEOLOGUES
Republican, Democrat, Independent - are party affiliations

You can try to redefine a rabbit as a squirrel, but it ain't gonna work.

You're wrong and I've already demonstrated how you are wrong, you're just ignoring my argument. Conservatism is not an ideology. A libertarian conservative and social conservative are both conservatives with conservative philosophies, however they share very little in the way of ideology. The libertarian conservative is ideologically in favor of more personal freedom... women should be allowed the right to abortions, gays should be allowed to marry, people should be allowed to buy, sell and use pot... a social conservative totally disagrees with all of this and their ideology is also based on a conservative philosophy. So we see that the clear evidence shows Conservatism is not an ideology. It's simply not driven by ideology.

Conservatism is the moderate alternative to radicalism. Radicals can take the form of basically any ideology but mostly what we see in American politics is a radical left. The radical right is virtually non-existent and don't generally factor into the elections.

I am not trying to redefine a thing. I am stating clear and concise facts that anyone can go look up for themselves. Start with the dictionary definition of a conservative... they are the opposite of a radical. The definition of a "moderate" (political) is essentially the same as a conservative.

I'm not ignoring your argument. I've heard it, considered it, and determined that IMHO it's a load of crap. Trying to re-define terms to suit YOU and your put ideological leanings in the best light possible.

If you look up "vote by ideology" then you get a breakdown of Liberal, Moderate, and Conservative. Doesn't matter if YOU think they aren't ideologies - everyone else on the planet defines them as ideologies.

YOU don't get to re-define words at your whim. Sorry.

Again, I have not redefined a thing. You don't have to agree with my argument, I didn't expect you to. The fact you have a poll which falsely compares conservatism to liberalism as an ideology, does not mean that's how the whole world sees things. Sorry!

Conservatism is a philosophy. It crosses ideological lines all the time and I have presented you with excellent examples of this. Examples which none of you have explained IF Conservatism is to be an ideology as you claim. So what we have is Liberals and Elite Republicans insisting Conservatism be called an ideology when that's not what Conservatism is.

Now, Conservatives are hated by Liberals and Elite Republicans because Conservatives are not committed to their respective ideologies. The Conservative philosophy takes into consideration all the pertinent details, examines all sides of the argument and resolves problems in a pragmatic common-sense way which is, perhaps "populist" but not ideologically-driven.

Reagan relished Liberal arguments! It gave him the opportunity to juxtapose Conservative philosophy and make his case. He didn't want to silence the Left, to the contrary, he wanted the Left to be loud and proud. He would let the Liberal make their best argumentative points, then he would simply dismantle them with Conservatism. He did this time and time again without fail.

 

[Skylar]

I am not trying to redefine a thing.

Of course you are. You've bizarrely re-imagined 'conservative' to include both liberals and moderates. A redefinition so pointlessly awkward you probably tore something as you pulled it out of your ass.

You've presented absolutely nothing to back your claim that most people are conservative. Or that America wants a conservative. Or that there's no such thing as 'far right'. Or any of the other silly shit you've made up.

Right now your greatest challenge is relevance.

 

[Boss]

Skylar, you have posted the same graphs SIX TIMES on this page alone. I think USMB has a policy about flooding the threads with spam. There is no point in you repeating the post over and over again. If you don't stop doing this, I will report you to the mods because you're intentionally trying to destroy the integrity of the conversation here.