Faith is Born from Fear

[MaxGrit]

Le'ts say that I'm 100% (minus .000 ... 01%) certain there's no gods as you think of them. So while I"m living life to the fullest doing good works just to be good for the helluvit (while hoping to lead by example) you're going through your life trying to instill fear into people threatening them with eternal torture and pain and misery...So they don't get that after they die? But you'll give them the emotional equivilent of hell while they're still alive never really making that connection huh?

Even if you think there is a 1 in 10^60 that you are wrong then it's a big mistake to risk spending eternity in Hell.

 

[PratchettFan]

Le'ts say that I'm 100% (minus .000 ... 01%) certain there's no gods as you think of them. So while I"m living life to the fullest doing good works just to be good for the helluvit (while hoping to lead by example) you're going through your life trying to instill fear into people threatening them with eternal torture and pain and misery...So they don't get that after they die? But you'll give them the emotional equivilent of hell while they're still alive never really making that connection huh?

Even if you think there is a 1 in 10^60 that you are wrong then it's a big mistake to risk spending eternity in Hell.

Irrelevant. It is not possible to believe what you do not believe.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Even if you think there is a 1 in 10^60 that you are wrong then it's a big mistake to risk spending eternity in Hell.

Fair point. But the cost-benefit or risk analysis model of faith isn't widely regarded as optimal.

 

[PratchettFan]

How dare any one question God's love after reading this scripture? This scripture should not be hard to understand========
anyone who believes in me will have eternal life. 16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son[c] so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.
18 “There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don’t trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 They hated the heavenly Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. 21 But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to.” John 3:15-21

I do understand it. I have no desire for eternal life. I find the rest immoral.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

How dare any one question God's love after reading this scripture? This scripture should not be hard to understand========
JESUS says anyone who believes in me will have eternal life. 16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son[c] so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.
18 “There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don’t trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 They hated the heavenly Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. 21 But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to.” John 3:15-21

I don't question God's love. I question your's.

 

[sealybobo]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I LOVE others enough to give them the TRUTH if I did not care about others I would use the time for playing tennis!

Hate to use dead children for an analogy, but the Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 kids not too long ago claimed she did it because she "loved" them and, ""It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."[59] She also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made them more disobedient.[60]"
Andrea Yates - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Delta4Embassy]

so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! satan is a liar and the father of liars satan is on earth to kill and destroy.Why help him?

So...You sound a lot alike you and Ms. Yates.

 

[sealybobo]

I LOVE others enough to give them the TRUTH if I did not care about others I would use the time for playing tennis!

Hate to use dead children for an analogy, but the Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 kids not too long ago claimed she did it because she "loved" them and, ""It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."[59] She also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made them more disobedient.[60]"
Andrea Yates - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! satan is a liar and the father of liars satan is on earth to kill and destroy.Why help him?

I think the message you should have got out of this story is that this woman was tormented and brainwashed with this god character and all it did was fuck her up even more than she already was and this god character's guilt trip caused her to snap and lose it. Maybe if she wasn't brainwashed by nut job christians she wouldn't have murdered her kids.

 

[MaxGrit]

Even if you think there is a 1 in 10^60 that you are wrong then it's a big mistake to risk spending eternity in Hell.

Fair point. But the cost-benefit or risk analysis model of faith isn't widely regarded as optimal.

Holy Spirit is my teacher of truth. Read my signature.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Holy Spirit is my teacher of truth. Read my signature.

Sig sounds like an inelegant way of saying I never took a general psychology course in school.

 

[MaxGrit]

Sig sounds like an inelegant way of saying I never took a general psychology course in school.

I never took a general psychology course in school.

Interesting. Would you like to tell me more about your education?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Interesting. Would you like to tell me more about your education?

Why? Gonna defer to me if mine's bigger?

 

[teapartysamurai]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Despite some radical differences... Atheism is like Paganism in many ways.

There is no single doctrine, or formula, to be an atheist because there are many ways to be an atheist. Same with Paganism.

There may be some shared beliefs. Atheists do not believe in the existence of deities, Pagans do believe in the existence of deities.

Unlike Christianity, the subjective delusion of morality varies greatly among atheists. The subjective delusion of morality varies greatly among Pagans as well.

You frequently use terms like "we" and "us" when talking about Atheism, as if you speak on behalf of all atheists, yet you speak only for yourself. You cannot speak on behalf of all atheists just as I cannot speak on behalf of all Pagans. You need to learn that.
​

There is nothing "subjective" about morality unless a person simply doesn't want to be subject to morality.

That is nothing new. The Bible describes the greatest times of evil, in a simple phrase: And everyone did that which is right in his own eyes.

Judges 17:6King James Version
6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Another way of saying moral relativism.

But the Nazis are the ultimate argument against moral relativism. They also thought they were doing the "right thing." They were not ashamed of what they were doing. The Nazis meticulously catalogued what they were doing. That's why, they were so easy to convict after the war. Hitler was quoted as saying generations would thank him for his extermination of the Jews.

But Hitler was wrong, and what was he was doing was EVIL, not "morally subjective."

That's why subjective morality or moral relativism, is a joke. It's just another way for a person to rationalize he's not subject to morality and rationalize his own behavior. Nothing more.

 

[MaxGrit]

Interesting. Would you like to tell me more about your education?

Why? Gonna defer to me if mine's bigger?

Hook me up bro.

 

[September]

Despite some radical differences... Atheism is like Paganism in many ways.

There is no single doctrine, or formula, to be an atheist because there are many ways to be an atheist. Same with Paganism.

There may be some shared beliefs. Atheists do not believe in the existence of deities, Pagans do believe in the existence of deities.

Unlike Christianity, the subjective delusion of morality varies greatly among atheists. The subjective delusion of morality varies greatly among Pagans as well.

You frequently use terms like "we" and "us" when talking about Atheism, as if you speak on behalf of all atheists, yet you speak only for yourself. You cannot speak on behalf of all atheists just as I cannot speak on behalf of all Pagans. You need to learn that.
​

There is nothing "subjective" about morality unless a person simply doesn't want to be subject to morality.

That is nothing new. The Bible describes the greatest times of evil, in a simple phrase: And everyone did that which is right in his own eyes.

Judges 17:6King James Version
6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Another way of saying moral relativism.

But the Nazis are the ultimate argument against moral relativism. They also thought they were doing the "right thing." They were not ashamed of what they were doing. The Nazis meticulously catalogued what they were doing. That's why, they were so easy to convict after the war. Hitler was quoted as saying generations would thank him for his extermination of the Jews.

But Hitler was wrong, and what was he was doing was EVIL, not "morally subjective."

That's why subjective morality or moral relativism, is a joke. It's just another way for a person to rationalize he's not subject to morality and rationalize his own behavior. Nothing more.

That is but an opinion.

As is your view on Hitler and the Nazis.

Hitler was not "wrong" and Hitler was not "evil". He may have been subjectively "evil" according to your opinion, or someone else's opinion, but that does not make him objectively "evil".

Heil Hitler!

And Jesus too


​

 

[amrchaos]

I seriously doubt that fear had anything to do with early religion.

Fear is a primitive tactic to herd people. A practical religion does not need fear, it just need to give good advice on living.

Anything else is some kind of "attachment" which you could examine further if you want to know what the purpose of a particular religion/religious sect is.

 

[sealybobo]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Despite some radical differences... Atheism is like Paganism in many ways.

There is no single doctrine, or formula, to be an atheist because there are many ways to be an atheist. Same with Paganism.

There may be some shared beliefs. Atheists do not believe in the existence of deities, Pagans do believe in the existence of deities.

Unlike Christianity, the subjective delusion of morality varies greatly among atheists. The subjective delusion of morality varies greatly among Pagans as well.

You frequently use terms like "we" and "us" when talking about Atheism, as if you speak on behalf of all atheists, yet you speak only for yourself. You cannot speak on behalf of all atheists just as I cannot speak on behalf of all Pagans. You need to learn that.
​

There is nothing "subjective" about morality unless a person simply doesn't want to be subject to morality.

That is nothing new. The Bible describes the greatest times of evil, in a simple phrase: And everyone did that which is right in his own eyes.

Judges 17:6King James Version
6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Another way of saying moral relativism.

But the Nazis are the ultimate argument against moral relativism. They also thought they were doing the "right thing." They were not ashamed of what they were doing. The Nazis meticulously catalogued what they were doing. That's why, they were so easy to convict after the war. Hitler was quoted as saying generations would thank him for his extermination of the Jews.

But Hitler was wrong, and what was he was doing was EVIL, not "morally subjective."

That's why subjective morality or moral relativism, is a joke. It's just another way for a person to rationalize he's not subject to morality and rationalize his own behavior. Nothing more.

It is hard to deny that Iraqi's being Muslims didn't play a part in our decision to go possibly murder as many as 1 million of them in the 2nd Iraq war.

And how did we justify what we did? 9-11? Really? Because Saddam and Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9-11. Now ISIS & Al Queda are in Iraq. Nice job Christians.

What did Bush say? We were at war with Radical Islam. He made it a holy war. He had to in order to sell it to stupid christian Americans who are very easily fooled.

I mean if they'll believe in an invisible man just because a guy in a robe tells them its true then they'll believe anything.

 

[sealybobo]

I seriously doubt that fear had anything to do with early religion.

Fear is a primitive tactic to herd people. A practical religion does not need fear, it just need to give good advice on living.

Anything else is some kind of "attachment" which you could examine further if you want to know what the purpose of a particular religion/religious sect is.

OMG you couldn't be any more dumb. Fear is exactly the reason the human mind came up with god(s). That and ignorance regarding science. Think about early primitive man. Like us they wondered what happened to their love ones when they died. They were sad when they died. And they wondered what would happen to them when they died. Of course they told themselves that one day they would see their love ones again in the great beyond. In "heaven".

Like every other animal humans too had a healthy fear of the unknown. It helped keep them alive. They also had brains large enough to imagine up a super parent/god(s).

Fear played a very big part in inventing god. For you to suggest not says how close minded you are to the possibility that your god(s) are completely made up. Trust us, they are.

 

[PratchettFan]

I seriously doubt that fear had anything to do with early religion.

Fear is a primitive tactic to herd people. A practical religion does not need fear, it just need to give good advice on living.

Anything else is some kind of "attachment" which you could examine further if you want to know what the purpose of a particular religion/religious sect is.

OMG you couldn't be any more dumb. Fear is exactly the reason the human mind came up with god(s). That and ignorance regarding science. Think about early primitive man. Like us they wondered what happened to their love ones when they died. They were sad when they died. And they wondered what would happen to them when they died. Of course they told themselves that one day they would see their love ones again in the great beyond. In "heaven".

Like every other animal humans too had a healthy fear of the unknown. It helped keep them alive. They also had brains large enough to imagine up a super parent/god(s).

Fear played a very big part in inventing god. For you to suggest not says how close minded you are to the possibility that your god(s) are completely made up. Trust us, they are.

The human response to fear is not faith... it is anger.