Faith is Born from Fear

[PratchettFan]

Life without faith is empty. Most people require meaning to live. Therefore, it is not entirely irrational to have Faith. Perhaps our species can one day evolve to a point where we can place our Faith in each other instead of religion and dogma. Until then, most people will turn to God(s).

I don't think a lie is good no matter how good it makes you feel. I want to know the truth. That's what I seek. And when I ponder and don't know, that's ok with me. I'm not afraid. I might be a little sad at the thought one day it'll be over and maybe it'll be a horrible death rather than a quick one, but I don't fear death. I was dead before i was born and it didn't bother me one bit.

I do wonder/hope for something more after I die. That's just probably wishful thinking.

That shit christians muslims mormons and jews tell you, don't listen to them. They made it all up.

I got a flyer on my hood. Dr Judy is coming to town for a month in Plymouth, MI. She's going to tell people

How you can find piece and eternal life, tell what happens when you die, what happens right before end times, what role the USA plays, truth about the rapture, who the antichrist is and the mark of the beast and are heaven and hell real.

That's all completely praying on weak minded fearful people. You think this is good for them? To be conned by this church? Yes religions do a lot of good. Tell that to the Catholic kids that got molested or the 1400 kids in Ireland that got raped by muslims.

People need to know the truth. I need to make up my own flyer.

Ok. Here is the truth. You don't have a clue whether there is a God or not, or what the nature of God is if there is one. None of us do. All of the claims and assertions on both sides are nothing but pure belief. The more certain those assertions are, the greater the level of unsupported faith. You haven't freed yourself from belief, you have only changed your faith.

Agreed. Can the people I argue with agree with you?

It doesn't matter. Belief may sometimes be in compliance with reality but it doesn't create reality.

Thread is Faith is Born of Fear. The flyer on my car says it all. If we go to the meeting they're going to tell us:

How to find peace and find eternal life. If I'm worried about such things I would go to hear more.

What happens after death? Are you worried about that? If you are you'll show up. Will you believe her? Why? Tell me what evidence she presented to you.

What role the USA plays in bible prophecy, the rapture, mark of the beast, anti christ and is heaven and hell for real.

So, is religion born out of fear? You tell me.

No. It's not. Neither is faith. Anger is born of fear. Hatred and distrust are born of fear. Prejudice is born of fear. There are lots of things humans do which are born of fear. Religion and faith are not among them.

What is faith? ....It can also be defined as belief that is not based on proof

Ever hear of the fear of the unknown? Every animal has a healthy fear of the unknown. So, faith is born out of fear no question about it.

I can only accept that your beliefs arise from fear. Who am I to argue with how you feel. But you are wrong if you think that applies to everyone. Faith does not arise from fear.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What is faith? ....It can also be defined as belief that is not based on proof

Ever hear of the fear of the unknown? Every animal has a healthy fear of the unknown. So, faith is born out of fear no question about it.

I can define science as balderdash, that doesn't make it balderdash.

By the way, I already posted the dictionary definition of faith, perhaps you should go read it and admit that your definition is not the primary one. Or would that force you to confront the fact that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about?

As an aside, and to indicate just how stupid you are, I challenge you to provide actual evidence that animals are afraid of the unknown. Keep in mind during your attempt to do so that there is abundant evidence that animals are quite willing to explore new things, and that the entire science of evolution is based on animals moving into new environments and adapting to them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That wasn't my point. Did you miss my point? Are you trying to change the subject?

No, I was making the point that your point is based on bullshit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are correct that each animal has a fear of the unknown. Without it, they would be extinct. However, humans are control freaks, lol. And ego centric.. we need to be in control and know what, why, where, and everything else in between.

Animals are afraid of the unknown?

That explains why wild animals that have never seen humans aren't afraid. It also explains why no animal has ever migrated from one territory to another.

Wait, it actually doesn't, what it does is illustrate you abject ignorance. There is no scientific evidence that indicates that animals have an inbuilt fear of the unknown.I suggest you go back to kindergarten and pay attention to what the teacher is telling you.

 

[Casjah]

Animals are afraid of the unknown?

That explains why wild animals that have never seen humans aren't afraid. It also explains why no animal has ever migrated from one territory to another.

Wait, it actually doesn't, what it does is illustrate you abject ignorance. There is no scientific evidence that indicates that animals have an inbuilt fear of the unknown.I suggest you go back to kindergarten and pay attention to what the teacher is telling you.

lol Who pulled your tampon string?

Fear is a basic emotion. It's experienced by the most primitive part of the brain. The fear animals experience when running from a predator isn't so different from the fear humans experience.

 

[Hollie]

which is not to say that atheists are not free to live empty lives if they choose to......

What you hyper-religious loons typically fail to understand is that most of humanity has come and gone before the invention of your gawds. To suggest that most of humanity has lived "empty lives" is simply moronic, but considering it comes from a hyper-religious loon, well, not really a surprise.

The real tragedy is that people like you apparently being unable to conduct their lives without the need to tremble in fear before angry gawds.

You are again equating belief in the supernatural as somehow providing a "meaning" for your life. For those like you; emotionally and intellectually wanting (a black hole of unfulfilled wants and desires), the happenstance of your religion may provide a haven for your emotional and intellectual failings. And more to the point, it assuages your fear of dying. Unfortunately, most people are not content with being corporeal. The Gawds who wave their hand to wind up the universe and then walk away offers little comfort and security for the emotionally crippled who have a compelling need to have their wishes granted that death is not the end of life. Equally unfortunate is that most people do not think beyond the paternal image of their gawds, and they certainly do not think to examine the accepted claims of what defines most gawds. If they did, they would (hopefully) pause and rethink their position.

 

[sealybobo]

What is faith? ....It can also be defined as belief that is not based on proof

Ever hear of the fear of the unknown? Every animal has a healthy fear of the unknown. So, faith is born out of fear no question about it.

I can define science as balderdash, that doesn't make it balderdash.

By the way, I already posted the dictionary definition of faith, perhaps you should go read it and admit that your definition is not the primary one. Or would that force you to confront the fact that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about?

As an aside, and to indicate just how stupid you are, I challenge you to provide actual evidence that animals are afraid of the unknown. Keep in mind during your attempt to do so that there is abundant evidence that animals are quite willing to explore new things, and that the entire science of evolution is based on animals moving into new environments and adapting to them.

All animals have a healthy fear of the unknown. Need an example? I have squirrels and one of them had the balls to come take a nut from my hand. The other ones saw it and they too now take from my hand. But the ones new to it are very nervous and as soon as they take the nut they run. The one who's been doing it the longest doesn't run in fact he's down right pushy.

There are chickadees who land in my hand and will eat. Over millions of years they have lost the fear. The House Sparrows will never land in my hand. Maybe in a million years but not in my lifetime. No matter how much food I throw out to them, the blue jays, doves, cardinals won't land on my hand and they always run when I open the doorwall. They all have a healthy amount of fear. That keeps them safe.

The fact that you argue such concepts makes me think you'll argue anything. I'm off tomorrow so until Saturday morning, f off. LOL. God is dead.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

lol Who pulled your tampon string?

Fear is a basic emotion. It's experienced by the most primitive part of the brain. The fear animals experience when running from a predator isn't so different from the fear humans experience.

OMG, you insulted me like a 5 year old bully, I don't know what to do other than laugh.

How do you know that the supposed fear you say animals experience is similar to what humans feel? Do you have a magical ability to read the minds of animals and humans?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

All animals have a healthy fear of the unknown. Need an example? I have squirrels and one of them had the balls to come take a nut from my hand. The other ones saw it and they too now take from my hand. But the ones new to it are very nervous and as soon as they take the nut they run. The one who's been doing it the longest doesn't run in fact he's down right pushy.

And you know this because...

FYI, personal anecdotes are not evidence, something that many people have pointed out on this forum. Even if I took your post at face value, it is not in any way proof that animals fear the unknown. For all I know, you randomly grab squirrels that get close enough to take the nuts from your hand and bite their heads off. That would give the squirrels that you don't attack an actual reason to fear you, and have nothing to do with the unknown.

There are chickadees who land in my hand and will eat. Over millions of years they have lost the fear. The House Sparrows will never land in my hand. Maybe in a million years but not in my lifetime. No matter how much food I throw out to them, the blue jays, doves, cardinals won't land on my hand and they always run when I open the doorwall. They all have a healthy amount of fear. That keeps them safe.

Wait, I thought you said all animals have a fear of the unknown, now you claim that some don't. Seems a little inconsistent to me, but I am not an ignorant idiot who thinks he knows everything.

The fact that you argue such concepts makes me think you'll argue anything. I'm off tomorrow so until Saturday morning, f off. LOL. God is dead.

I didn't argue anything, I scoffed at the ignorant drivel that you posted. You actually managed to make my point for me when you tried to defend it, and are so stupid you didn't even notice.

 

[Rikurzhen]

which is not to say that atheists are not free to live empty lives if they choose to......

What you hyper-religious loons typically fail to understand is that most of humanity has come and gone before the invention of your gawds. To suggest that most of humanity has lived "empty lives" is simply moronic, but considering it comes from a hyper-religious loon, well, not really a surprise.

The real tragedy is that people like you apparently being unable to conduct their lives without the need to tremble in fear before angry gawds.

You are again equating belief in the supernatural as somehow providing a "meaning" for your life. For those like you; emotionally and intellectually wanting (a black hole of unfulfilled wants and desires), the happenstance of your religion may provide a haven for your emotional and intellectual failings. And more to the point, it assuages your fear of dying. Unfortunately, most people are not content with being corporeal. The Gawds who wave their hand to wind up the universe and then walk away offers little comfort and security for the emotionally crippled who have a compelling need to have their wishes granted that death is not the end of life. Equally unfortunate is that most people do not think beyond the paternal image of their gawds, and they certainly do not think to examine the accepted claims of what defines most gawds. If they did, they would (hopefully) pause and rethink their position.

This air of superiority of yours just rubs me the wrong way. Why do so many Atheists, and I'm one, use their lack of belief as a cudgel against believers and then do so in such a way as to elevate themselves as some form of superior being?

All of us find meaning to our lives or we quickly suicide, so why does it matter that some find meaning by envisioning a God and others find meaning in their family or in watching MSNBC? That meaning that is found is a neurochemical release in the brain which brings calmness or a sense of belonging. What does it matter what triggers that feeling?

People like you are the worst ambassadors for Atheism because you make us all seem obnoxious. Your tirade here isn't meant to explore the meaning of belief or the lack of belief, it's meant to give you an endorphin rush by fooling yourself into thinking that you're a more intelligent person that the rubes you're insulting. Belief in God doesn't indicate simplemindedness and lack of belief doesn't indicate one has a superior intellect. Food for thought:

Data on IR and ER from 35 pairs of monozygotic twins reared apart (MZA) and 37 pairs of dizygotic twins reared apart (DZA) were fitted to a biometric model and demonstrated significant heritability (0.43 and 0.39), with a model containing genetic plus environmental factors fitting significantly better than a model containing only an environmental component. Twin similarity could not be explained by placement on a self-reported measure of family Moral Religious Emphasis as measured by the Family Environment Scale.
​

So to paint this issue as one of people being fools or too scared to see the "truth" is silly. It's a cartoon version of what is playing out.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

which is not to say that atheists are not free to live empty lives if they choose to......

Who says that atheists lead empty lives? I resent the notion that I need your fairy tale character in order for my life to have meaning and worth and I also resent the notion that I as an atheist am devoid of morality (not that you said that second part I was just speaking in general that time)

 

[AtheistBuddah]

so is patriotism, apparently. So is the republican party. the tea party. etc.. so is violence. war. etc.. I'll choose my religion over any of these other things you suppose are started by fear

Why not simply choose, none of the above?

 

[AtheistBuddah]

so is patriotism, apparently. So is the republican party. the tea party. etc.. so is violence. war. etc.. I'll choose my religion over any of these other things you suppose are started by fear

Our government is supposed to look out for all the citizens. What is good for everybody.

Now there are always going to be poor people, but how many is too many? And there are always going to be rich people. But how much of the nations wealth is too much? If they use to have 75% of the wealth and the rest of us 25% and the economy worked that way, and now they have 90% and it doesn't work, OUR government of the people needs to do some social engineering through regulations, tax breaks, tariffs, minimum wage hikes, etc. Unregulated Libertarian Free Markets have never even been tried let alone proven to work. They don't. That's what they had in Europe with the small ruling elite, the small merchant class and the huge masses called the surfs or peasants. Remember the good old days?

And people today don't remember how life was for seniors before SS and Medicare. Do they really want to retire and have to pay the free market for healthcare? With no pension or social security? That would be the GOP dream. Every man for himself. Before the New Deal lots of old people died without dignity or $.

If I could rate "thank you" "agree" and "informative" all on the same post I would right now

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Our government is supposed to look out for all the citizens. What is good for everybody.

Now there are always going to be poor people, but how many is too many? And there are always going to be rich people. But how much of the nations wealth is too much? If they use to have 75% of the wealth and the rest of us 25% and the economy worked that way, and now they have 90% and it doesn't work, OUR government of the people needs to do some social engineering through regulations, tax breaks, tariffs, minimum wage hikes, etc. Unregulated Libertarian Free Markets have never even been tried let alone proven to work. They don't. That's what they had in Europe with the small ruling elite, the small merchant class and the huge masses called the surfs or peasants. Remember the good old days?

And people today don't remember how life was for seniors before SS and Medicare. Do they really want to retire and have to pay the free market for healthcare? With no pension or social security? That would be the GOP dream. Every man for himself. Before the New Deal lots of old people died without dignity or $.

Damn, that is the single best example of fear based justification I have ever seen.

It posts like this make me sad to see the disagree button go

 

[AtheistBuddah]

The Loss of Upward Mobility in the U.S. TIME.com

Just curious, which state has the highest level of income inequality?

Probably Texas.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Life without faith is empty. Most people require meaning to live. Therefore, it is not entirely irrational to have Faith. Perhaps our species can one day evolve to a point where we can place our Faith in each other instead of religion and dogma. Until then, most people will turn to God(s).

I don't think a lie is good no matter how good it makes you feel. I want to know the truth. That's what I seek. And when I ponder and don't know, that's ok with me. I'm not afraid. I might be a little sad at the thought one day it'll be over and maybe it'll be a horrible death rather than a quick one, but I don't fear death. I was dead before i was born and it didn't bother me one bit.

I do wonder/hope for something more after I die. That's just probably wishful thinking.

That shit christians muslims mormons and jews tell you, don't listen to them. They made it all up.

I got a flyer on my hood. Dr Judy is coming to town for a month in Plymouth, MI. She's going to tell people

How you can find piece and eternal life, tell what happens when you die, what happens right before end times, what role the USA plays, truth about the rapture, who the antichrist is and the mark of the beast and are heaven and hell real.

That's all completely praying on weak minded fearful people. You think this is good for them? To be conned by this church? Yes religions do a lot of good. Tell that to the Catholic kids that got molested or the 1400 kids in Ireland that got raped by muslims.

People need to know the truth. I need to make up my own flyer.

Ok. Here is the truth. You don't have a clue whether there is a God or not, or what the nature of God is if there is one. None of us do. All of the claims and assertions on both sides are nothing but pure belief. The more certain those assertions are, the greater the level of unsupported faith. You haven't freed yourself from belief, you have only changed your faith.

Agreed. Can the people I argue with agree with you?

It doesn't matter. Belief may sometimes be in compliance with reality but it doesn't create reality.

Thread is Faith is Born of Fear. The flyer on my car says it all. If we go to the meeting they're going to tell us:

How to find peace and find eternal life. If I'm worried about such things I would go to hear more.

What happens after death? Are you worried about that? If you are you'll show up. Will you believe her? Why? Tell me what evidence she presented to you.

What role the USA plays in bible prophecy, the rapture, mark of the beast, anti christ and is heaven and hell for real.

So, is religion born out of fear? You tell me.

No. It's not. Neither is faith. Anger is born of fear. Hatred and distrust are born of fear. Prejudice is born of fear. There are lots of things humans do which are born of fear. Religion and faith are not among them.

All those things are born in response to fear. Faith is just a more positive reaction but it is still a reaction. The first stage of grief of denial and faith is a denial of the inevitable truth. Nothing lasts forever. There is no such thing as eternal life.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Our government is supposed to look out for all the citizens. What is good for everybody.

Now there are always going to be poor people, but how many is too many? And there are always going to be rich people. But how much of the nations wealth is too much? If they use to have 75% of the wealth and the rest of us 25% and the economy worked that way, and now they have 90% and it doesn't work, OUR government of the people needs to do some social engineering through regulations, tax breaks, tariffs, minimum wage hikes, etc. Unregulated Libertarian Free Markets have never even been tried let alone proven to work. They don't. That's what they had in Europe with the small ruling elite, the small merchant class and the huge masses called the surfs or peasants. Remember the good old days?

And people today don't remember how life was for seniors before SS and Medicare. Do they really want to retire and have to pay the free market for healthcare? With no pension or social security? That would be the GOP dream. Every man for himself. Before the New Deal lots of old people died without dignity or $.

Damn, that is the single best example of fear based justification I have ever seen.

It posts like this make me sad to see the disagree button go

You disagreeing by hitting a button tells me nothing. Why don't you explain yourself instead. I only skimmed sealybobo's comment but I'm already pretty damn sure that he's wrong because I know that he doesn't understand the world too well, so if he can't understand a problem he sure as hell can't properly diagnose what is going on and offer a solution. So you implying that you agree with him is disconcerting. Why not explain yourself, your agreement and your disagreement?

 

[Rikurzhen]

All those things are born in response to fear. Faith is just a more positive reaction but it is still a reaction. The first stage of grief of denial and faith is a denial of the inevitable truth. Nothing lasts forever. There is no such thing as eternal life.

Prove the bolded.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Our government is supposed to look out for all the citizens. What is good for everybody.

Now there are always going to be poor people, but how many is too many? And there are always going to be rich people. But how much of the nations wealth is too much? If they use to have 75% of the wealth and the rest of us 25% and the economy worked that way, and now they have 90% and it doesn't work, OUR government of the people needs to do some social engineering through regulations, tax breaks, tariffs, minimum wage hikes, etc. Unregulated Libertarian Free Markets have never even been tried let alone proven to work. They don't. That's what they had in Europe with the small ruling elite, the small merchant class and the huge masses called the surfs or peasants. Remember the good old days?

And people today don't remember how life was for seniors before SS and Medicare. Do they really want to retire and have to pay the free market for healthcare? With no pension or social security? That would be the GOP dream. Every man for himself. Before the New Deal lots of old people died without dignity or $.

Damn, that is the single best example of fear based justification I have ever seen.

It posts like this make me sad to see the disagree button go

You disagreeing by hitting a button tells me nothing. Why don't you explain yourself instead. I only skimmed sealybobo's comment but I'm already pretty damn sure that he's wrong because I know that he doesn't understand the world too well, so if he can't understand a problem he sure as hell can't properly diagnose what is going on and offer a solution. So you implying that you agree with him is disconcerting. Why not explain yourself, your agreement and your disagreement?

I agree with you, but some posts are just so patently wrong that I don't always have the energy to actually explain why in detail. Also the agree/disagree system is nice because it shows you what the general consensus of the rest of the people active in the thread is with regards to a specific post. But I do see where you're coming from and I do generally agree with you it is normally better to offer a constructive criticism of a post than it is to just give a thumbs down and move on.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

All those things are born in response to fear. Faith is just a more positive reaction but it is still a reaction. The first stage of grief of denial and faith is a denial of the inevitable truth. Nothing lasts forever. There is no such thing as eternal life.

Prove the bolded.

I can't, but its opposite can't be proven either so in that area we are at an impasse