Faith is Born from Fear

[Hollie]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Yours is the simpleton's version. You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

Simply remember the foundations of Genesis--

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

 

[PostmodernProph]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Our opinions on this matter will likely never be the same. Can we just agree to disagree?

sure....if we can also agree I can continue to point out those things in your posts that I disagree with and explain why......I believe that's all I've been doing....

 

[PostmodernProph]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Yours is the simpleton's version.

and yet oddly you STILL don't understand it....

You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

you didn't "fail"......you've intentionally made the choice you made.....

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

...you say that God set you up to fail as if you had no say in the matter.....however billions of us have made the opposite choice than you have......we weren't set up to fail......you've simple chosen to fail....

 

[MaxGrit]

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

The Bible says that no one is innocent except for Jesus.

 

[Hollie]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Yours is the simpleton's version.

and yet oddly you STILL don't understand it....

You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

you didn't "fail"......you've intentionally made the choice you made.....

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

...you say that God set you up to fail as if you had no say in the matter.....however billions of us have made the opposite choice than you have......we weren't set up to fail......you've simple chosen to fail....

You've done nothing more than rote memorization of the genesis fable. You've never actually understood the contradictions of the fable.

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

It is quite a dilemma, isn’t it? For the gawds, who, according to the bibles, hates knowledge so much they made it the one thing forbidden in Eden and thus commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

 

[PostmodernProph]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

 

[Hollie]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

 

[Unkotare]

The concept of free will is obviously beyond some here. That being the case, they have no great likelihood of grasping morality.

 

[PostmodernProph]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

 

[sealybobo]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

If you listen to 10 churches you'll hear 10 different stories. Last night the guy on the religious channel was saying that no one is in hell anymore. And if you want to be saved.....

No one is in hell anymore? I really didn't hear the details but that's a new one to me. No one is in hell anymore? How does this guy know that? He had a free pamphlet he would send to me to explain if I just called the 800 number. Bet he had a bigger book to sell that wasn't free.

 

[PostmodernProph]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

If you listen to 10 churches you'll hear 10 different stories. Last night the guy on the religious channel was saying that no one is in hell anymore. And if you want to be saved.....

No one is in hell anymore? I really didn't hear the details but that's a new one to me. No one is in hell anymore? How does this guy know that? He had a free pamphlet he would send to me to explain if I just called the 800 number. Bet he had a bigger book to sell that wasn't free.

I expect the root of your problem is that your experience with Christianity is limited to tele-evangelists.....

 

[AtheistBuddah]

because you cannot attack my argument on its actual merits.

I already did that. Your insecurity is not a cry but a scream for help. Too bad the person who could help you doesn't seem to be paying attention.

If you're referring to your God he can go find someone else to help. Even if offered I wouldn't accept the aid of such an immoral and autocratic being.

Missed the point again. Figures.

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

why do you believe yourself innocent when you admit you don't believe in him?.....

Because unbelief is not a crime.

does one have to commit a crime to lose innocence?.....the only thing he asked Adam and Eve to do was not eat from one tree.....the only thing he asked you to do was believe in him.....disobedience is disobedience.....neither was a crime.....

Our opinions on this matter will likely never be the same. Can we just agree to disagree?

sure....if we can also agree I can continue to point out those things in your posts that I disagree with and explain why......I believe that's all I've been doing....

That much is your right and I would never dream of asking you to stop excising that right on my behalf. What I meant there was in the greater sense but I suppose neither you nor I get to decide what happens on the grander scale. I just wish all theists and all atheists could have the live and let live attitude.

 

[Hollie]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

Do the gawds approve of your making threats on their behalf?

It's obvious you never took the time to actually read the genesis fable and acknowledge the contradictions. That's why you're sidestepping the issue of your gawds lying. Don't you thumpers rattle on about how sin is an affront to the gawds?

Very clearly we can see that per the genesis fable, evil already exists in the garden before A&E were magically placed there, else it cannot be a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man at this point in the narrative has nothing to do nor any knowledge of either good or evil. Hence evil must predate Man in order for there to be a choice.

Consider this a life lesson: we non-believers in your particular version of religious faith frequently know more about the faith than you thumpers who simply have bought into the dogma you were given.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

The point is that I would rather spend an eternity in hell than bowing down and giving praise to the being that created it and sends innocent people there just because they don't believe in him.

The Bible says that no one is innocent except for Jesus.

But I don't even believe that any such person ever existed.

 

[sealybobo]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

If you listen to 10 churches you'll hear 10 different stories. Last night the guy on the religious channel was saying that no one is in hell anymore. And if you want to be saved.....

No one is in hell anymore? I really didn't hear the details but that's a new one to me. No one is in hell anymore? How does this guy know that? He had a free pamphlet he would send to me to explain if I just called the 800 number. Bet he had a bigger book to sell that wasn't free.

I expect the root of your problem is that your experience with Christianity is limited to tele-evangelists.....

Not at all. I was raised Greek Orthodox. But my experience with white tele evangelists and christians in the bible belt certainly do have an important role is why I don't believe anymore. For example, if you study how slave masters down south used religion to keep their slaves in line. Or how the Pharoah's used it to keep their slaves in line.

I have studied the history of religion, not just the religions. If you study the history of religion, you realize it's all made up.

I have had deep conversations with born agains. They say you have to be baptized as adults or go to hell, so even us Greek Orthodox christians are going to hell. I've talked to Catholics who say they are the one true church/faith. I've talked to Mormons who say Jesus told Joseph Smith that all the other christianities are bullshit and to start a new church.

I've had deep conversations with Jews and Muslims. The Muslims think anyone not Muslim is going to hell. I don't know what the Jews think to be honest with you.

So I am not just going by tele evangelicals, although they do provide me with hours of entertainment. And yes they do represent you other theists. You have to claim them as one of yours. Otherwise it isn't fair. I don't have the time to figure out which kind of crazy you are. You may be mildly crazy or full blown crazy. Either way you are crazy.

 

[Hollie]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

If you listen to 10 churches you'll hear 10 different stories. Last night the guy on the religious channel was saying that no one is in hell anymore. And if you want to be saved.....

No one is in hell anymore? I really didn't hear the details but that's a new one to me. No one is in hell anymore? How does this guy know that? He had a free pamphlet he would send to me to explain if I just called the 800 number. Bet he had a bigger book to sell that wasn't free.

I expect the root of your problem is that your experience with Christianity is limited to tele-evangelists.....

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

What we are left with is this: Evil is of God -- no way around that. God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

silly conclusion....God did not force you to make your choice......YOU were disobedient, not God....

Sin is the failure of the test -- but if sin is evil, and man was kept from knowing what good and evil are (only the tree could supply that knowledge and it was told not to indulge), then he is precluded from being able to pass the test. God must know this, and God, being omniscient, must know which way Man would choose.

disobedience is sin.....I know what the consequences of disobedience are, you know what the consequences of disobedience are....God knew what your choice and my choice were before we made them......but we did not share that knowledge......our choice caused his knowledge.....his knowledge did NOT cause our choice.....we made opposite choices even though we both knew what the consequences were......failure of the test is in my hands and yours, not in God's......

Here again, you're trying to slither away from addressing the clear message of the gawds provided in the genesis fable.

A&E were precluded from being able to pass the test. The gawds knew this, and The gawds being omniscient, knew which way Man would choose.

Why did your gawds lie to A&E? It's another part of the fable your hoping to slither away from. The gawds commanded Adam and Eve -- "ye shall eat of all things but not of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- for on that day, ye shall die" (they didn't die, as the serpent pointed out, they lived; God lied, Satan told the truth-- how ironic)

if anyone is avoiding the clear message of Genesis, its you.....you aren't doomed to an eternity in hell because of something Adam and Eve did......only you can do that.....

If you listen to 10 churches you'll hear 10 different stories. Last night the guy on the religious channel was saying that no one is in hell anymore. And if you want to be saved.....

No one is in hell anymore? I really didn't hear the details but that's a new one to me. No one is in hell anymore? How does this guy know that? He had a free pamphlet he would send to me to explain if I just called the 800 number. Bet he had a bigger book to sell that wasn't free.

I expect the root of your problem is that your experience with Christianity is limited to tele-evangelists.....

Not at all. I was raised Greek Orthodox. But my experience with white tele evangelists and christians in the bible belt certainly do have an important role is why I don't believe anymore. For example, if you study how slave masters down south used religion to keep their slaves in line. Or how the Pharoah's used it to keep their slaves in line.

I have studied the history of religion, not just the religions. If you study the history of religion, you realize it's all made up.

I have had deep conversations with born agains. They say you have to be baptized as adults or go to hell, so even us Greek Orthodox christians are going to hell. I've talked to Catholics who say they are the one true church/faith. I've talked to Mormons who say Jesus told Joseph Smith that all the other christianities are bullshit and to start a new church.

I've had deep conversations with Jews and Muslims. The Muslims think anyone not Muslim is going to hell. I don't know what the Jews think to be honest with you.

So I am not just going by tele evangelicals, although they do provide me with hours of entertainment. And yes they do represent you other theists. You have to claim them as one of yours. Otherwise it isn't fair. I don't have the time to figure out which kind of crazy you are. You may be mildly crazy or full blown crazy. Either way you are crazy.

Bingo. That's how I became an atheist. I've always been a lover of history and studying other cultures and you can't study other cultures without studying their religion and the history of that religion. And upon studying them you can obvious see when and why they were created. To help establish or reaffirm the social order. Anyways, the day I realized that the reasons I had for seeing the other religions as fake also applied to my own, I dropped it like a bad habit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So according to you, Unkotare, I'm not even allowed to have my own opinion if it differs from yours?

You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yours is the simpleton's version. You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

Simply remember the foundations of Genesis--

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

I really love pointing out the massive ignorance of idiots that think they understand something they hold nothing but contempt for.

There is no Hell as you think does not exist. That should help you get over your insistence that believers are afraid of something, which totally confuses every thinking person who understands that faith is something that many believers, including those that do not believe in eternal punishments of some type, have.

By the way, if you are a parent perhaps you can explain, in detail, how you raise your children. When you tell them not to do something do you always sit down and tell them all the potential consequences of their disobedience, including the ones you are unaware of because of your limited ability to see the future, or do you just expect them to do what you tell them because you know enough to know what they should not do?

 

[Hollie]

Yours is the simpleton's version. You simply accepted the dogma you were given and never made any attempt to resolve the contradictions. In the Adam & Eve fable, the gawds set up a test that was impossible for them to pass, (knowing they would fail), purposely tempted them, and when they did fail, the curse was upon all subsequent humanity.

Simply remember the foundations of Genesis--

The curse of all humanity for the actions of the "first" man and woman to use their free will to gain knowledge-- The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Ever notice that in the Genesis story The gawds don't bother to tell A&E there would be consequences of massive -- in fact -- eternal proportions (we don't get the "Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a Hell, okay?", information until way too late)? Ever notice that, bereft of knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit of the tree, they can't tell what constitutes a "good" or "bad" behavior in the first place?

I really love pointing out the massive ignorance of idiots that think they understand something they hold nothing but contempt for.

There is no Hell as you think does not exist. That should help you get over your insistence that believers are afraid of something, which totally confuses every thinking person who understands that faith is something that many believers, including those that do not believe in eternal punishments of some type, have.

By the way, if you are a parent perhaps you can explain, in detail, how you raise your children. When you tell them not to do something do you always sit down and tell them all the potential consequences of their disobedience, including the ones you are unaware of because of your limited ability to see the future, or do you just expect them to do what you tell them because you know enough to know what they should not do?

You really love being pointless. You addressed nothing of what I wrote.

You're just desperate for attention.