Facts on Health Care: what people are afraid of

nice sweeping generalization.....

interesting...my uncle lived as you describe....he made it to 67 died of prostate cancer that a yearly check up would have prevented....

My wife and I take in families every year and teach them natural childbirth. People who are already taking a step outside of the box, and yet when we talk to them about their relationship with their doctors, almost ALL of them just believe what their doctors are telling them, which in general is complete B.S.

We commonly hear, if you go 5 days past your due date we need to induce you because the baby can get too big (no joke, this is common practice). So typically due dates are not accurate of course, and so people go over and they get induced via pitocin.

Pitocin creates very un-natural convulsions in the body for the women, and generates unbearable pain (and they know this). So then women want an epidural to deal with the pain of course. The epidural slows down the delivery process, and when women are checked into a hospital they are put on a 24 hour clock. So when they don't progress, which usually happens, the give them (and this is the actual medical term) failure to progress, and they are given cesarean section.

Meanwhile the hospital and doctors make a good deal of money off all of these unnecessary interventions. They are completely aware of what they are doing.

We educate our students about the process and how to avoid these interventions so that they don't have to drug themselves or their babies and have a SAFE natural birth. It's less painful and has quicker recovery time.

My point here is that these people are already trying to step out of the box, so they are somewhat already thinking for themselves, but they STILL just go along with doctors. Why, because doctors are seen as authorities, and Americans are taught not to question authority.

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle, but although your cheery news that I'm sure was filled with good intentions, you know nothing about my lifestyle. The self is more complicated than just a physical body, and I address all of it's needs including spiritual, which includes regular meditation.
 
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Obama realizes this also with the government run postal service. I just have to post this on all health care boards. These are HIS words today.

As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

I wonder what problems a government run health care system would entail, hmmmm skyrocketing taxes on everything and everyone, rationing of care, check out the taxes on gasoline in all of the countries who have socialized medicine- go to Ask Jeeves- taxes on gasoline in Italy, see the comparison over the last 20 years, they are more than double ours.

Maple here is your link so these liberals can hear it themselves.

Obama--on video--giving us a perfect example of why the Federal Government should not offer a public plan or a take over of the health care industry.

The U.S. post office is currently 14 BILLION dollars in red ink.]


This isn't true. The projection for 2010 is 13 billion. How many years have they existed without loses? Newspapers and mail is becoming obsolete. They must address market changes. If every private company gave up after posting loses for a year, there would be almost no private industry.

Like I said, I worked for a fortune 500 company (you can verify this with the market) that posted loses for over 3 years, and have bounced back to be very strong. Company name is Western Digital. There are peeks and valleys in every market, but I wouldn't expect you to understand this.

Also the transcript I have of Obama is much different, and there is some obvious editing, so just curious what they edited out because there was supposed to be a joke right before his last statement.
 
Obama realizes this also with the government run postal service. I just have to post this on all health care boards. These are HIS words today.

As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

I wonder what problems a government run health care system would entail, hmmmm skyrocketing taxes on everything and everyone, rationing of care, check out the taxes on gasoline in all of the countries who have socialized medicine- go to Ask Jeeves- taxes on gasoline in Italy, see the comparison over the last 20 years, they are more than double ours.

Maple here is your link so these liberals can hear it themselves.

Obama--on video--giving us a perfect example of why the Federal Government should not offer a public plan or a take over of the health care industry.

The U.S. post office is currently 14 BILLION dollars in red ink.]


This isn't true. The projection for 2010 is 13 billion. How many years have they existed without loses? Newspapers and mail is becoming obsolete. They must address market changes. If every private company gave up after posting loses for a year, there would be almost no private industry.

Like I said, I worked for a fortune 500 company (you can verify this with the market) that posted loses for over 3 years, and have bounced back to be very strong. Company name is Western Digital. There are peeks and valleys in every market, but I wouldn't expect you to understand this.

Also the transcript I have of Obama is much different, and there is some obvious editing, so just curious what they edited out because there was supposed to be a joke right before his last statement.


The PO is already partially privatized. I think it's clear that people don't want the government involved in healthcare.
 
The PO is already partially privatized. I think it's clear that people don't want the government involved in healthcare.

The only thing that is clear is the right has successfully scared the bejesus out of people.

"Also, while just 36 percent believe Obama’s efforts to reform the health system are a good idea, that number increases to 53 percent when respondents were read a paragraph describing Obama’s plans."

NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan - White House- msnbc.com
 
The PO is already partially privatized. I think it's clear that people don't want the government involved in healthcare.

The only thing that is clear is the right has successfully scared the bejesus out of people.

"Also, while just 36 percent believe Obama’s efforts to reform the health system are a good idea, that number increases to 53 percent when respondents were read a paragraph describing Obama’s plans."

NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan - White House- msnbc.com

Wonder what paragraph that was? LOL! Imagine MSNBC coming up with a way to boost numbers. :lol:
 
The PO is already partially privatized. I think it's clear that people don't want the government involved in healthcare.

The only thing that is clear is the right has successfully scared the bejesus out of people.

"Also, while just 36 percent believe Obama’s efforts to reform the health system are a good idea, that number increases to 53 percent when respondents were read a paragraph describing Obama’s plans."

NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan - White House- msnbc.com

Wonder what paragraph that was? LOL! Imagine MSNBC coming up with a way to boost numbers. :lol:

It's an NBC poll. The link contains a link to the pdf file with the full poll (going back to april or march).
 
Fear, anger, anxiety, and hate and confusion mixed with poor critical thinking facilities in the mind of the average American makes for a great Free Market to rip people off with for-profit health insurance as the only player in the Free Market. :lol:

I honestly wish that Republicans had come up with health care reform, because then at least the drones would just do what they said. I've give up on Republican voters actually thinking about positions long ago. They are usually only the very successful business owners, and it's typically people like my uncle who are only thinking about how taxes are going to effect them personally (even though it's usually from a "I can only see the tip of my own nose perspective"). Meaning, there are a lot of tax policies that benefit the rich in the long run, but they can't even see that.

What can you do? Keep trying to point out that they are being lied to. I have converted a few Republicans (hard core republicans) that I've worked with in the past. All you can do is keep talking to them, and if they are intelligent, at some point good sense will knock them on their heads.

gawd bless you. :cool:
 
Obama realizes this also with the government run postal service. I just have to post this on all health care boards. These are HIS words today.

As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

I wonder what problems a government run health care system would entail, hmmmm skyrocketing taxes on everything and everyone, rationing of care, check out the taxes on gasoline in all of the countries who have socialized medicine- go to Ask Jeeves- taxes on gasoline in Italy, see the comparison over the last 20 years, they are more than double ours.

You should post sources.

Look, the problem is simple. If the private insurance is cheaper and better, then people will chose that.

What you need to resolve is WHY is you side of the isle lying to you, and purposely deceiving you? It's for a reason, so what is it?


Read the proposal. We won't have a choice.

government health plans have choice, get yer facts straight
 
You should post sources.

Look, the problem is simple. If the private insurance is cheaper and better, then people will chose that.

What you need to resolve is WHY is you side of the isle lying to you, and purposely deceiving you? It's for a reason, so what is it?


Read the proposal. We won't have a choice.

government health plans have choice, get yer facts straight
Mine are.

HR 3200 kills the private insurance sector, see pages 300-400.

Difficult to keep your private plan when it goes bankrupt due to regulation, huh?

What's the best part? When 200+ HMOs go bankrupt thanks to HR 3200, you'll point and say "See, public health insurance out-competed private insurance!" And 70% of uneducated Americans will fall for that BS.
 
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Read the proposal. We won't have a choice.

government health plans have choice, get yer facts straight
Mine are.

HR 3200 kills the private insurance sector, see pages 300-400.

Difficult to keep your private plan when it goes bankrupt due to regulation, huh?

Private plans meaning for profit plans? Switzerland has an interesting system with choice, but no private-for-profit insurance industry as primary coverage.

you are stuck on stupid if you think even a single payer government plan wouldn't have competition and choice.


Switzerland
Percentage of GDP spent on health care: 11.6

Average monthly family premium: $750, paid entirely by consumers; there are government subsidies for low-income citizens.

Co-payments: 10 percent of the cost of services, up to $420 per year.

What is it? The Swiss system is social insurance like in Japan and Germany, voted in by a national referendum in 1994. Switzerland didn't have far to go to achieve universal coverage; 95 percent of the population already had voluntary insurance when the law was passed. All citizens are required to have coverage; those not covered were automatically assigned to a company. The government provides assistance to those who can't afford the premiums.

How does it work? The Swiss example shows that universal coverage is possible, even in a highly capitalist nation with powerful insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Insurance companies are not allowed to make a profit on basic care and are prohibited from cherry-picking only young and healthy applicants. They can make money on supplemental insurance, however. As in Germany, the insurers negotiate with providers to set standard prices for services, but drug prices are set by the government.

What are the concerns? The Swiss system is the second most expensive in the world -- but it's still far cheaper than U.S. health care. Drug prices are still slightly higher than in other European nations, and even then the discounts may be subsidized by the more expensive U.S. market, where some Swiss drug companies make one-third of their profits. In general, the Swiss do not have gatekeeper doctors, although some insurance plans require them or give a discount to consumers who use them.
-http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/
see? this is how intelligent and fair minded debate. they offer up facts. :eusa_whistle:
 
That's nice.

What the fuck does this have to do with Obama's healthcare bill, HR 3200?

HR 3200 will be stuffed down our throats after the August recess by Obama's supermajority.


Read it here, and get back to me...
 
People here and other places are afraid of rational discussion of how countries pay for health care and how we in America can fix things. The day we face this shit honestly and head on we have to admit failure and how our world views have led us to be treated like fools by the powers that be...insurance companies and their paid agents.

Why not consider a debate on the merits of this...Sick Around The World: How 5 Capitalist Democracies Pay For Health Care---Flaws and All?

Actually, from what I have seen, when opposing rational views about health care are discussed with the left, most of them just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against right wing extremist talking points.

Go here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ainst-the-current-healthcare-reform-bill.html
 
People here and other places are afraid of rational discussion of how countries pay for health care and how we in America can fix things. The day we face this shit honestly and head on we have to admit failure and how our world views have led us to be treated like fools by the powers that be...insurance companies and their paid agents.

Why not consider a debate on the merits of this...Sick Around The World: How 5 Capitalist Democracies Pay For Health Care---Flaws and All?

Actually, from what I have seen, when opposing rational views about health care are discussed
with the left, most of them just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against right wing extremist talking points.

Go here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ainst-the-current-healthcare-reform-bill.html


that's the exception not the rule..........rational rarely enters into it.:cuckoo:
 
That's nice.

What the fuck does this have to do with Obama's healthcare bill, HR 3200?

HR 3200 will be stuffed down our throats after the August recess by Obama's supermajority.


Read it here, and get back to me...

nothing is being stuffed down anyone's throats. cut the girlyman/boy hysteria. it just ain't working anymore.

America is sick of the yelling and screaming from all you misanthropic troglodytes.


:lol::lol::lol:
 
People here and other places are afraid of rational discussion of how countries pay for health care and how we in America can fix things. The day we face this shit honestly and head on we have to admit failure and how our world views have led us to be treated like fools by the powers that be...insurance companies and their paid agents.

Why not consider a debate on the merits of this...Sick Around The World: How 5 Capitalist Democracies Pay For Health Care---Flaws and All?

Actually, from what I have seen, when opposing rational views about health care are discussed with the left, most of them just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against right wing extremist talking points.

Go here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ainst-the-current-healthcare-reform-bill.html

when opposing rational views about health care are discussed ..., most ...just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against ...


With the left and the right I see this, but my dear friend I am a liberal and most definitely not of the left.


btw, why argue with talking points? It doesn't exactly make anyone look informed or intelligent.
 
People here and other places are afraid of rational discussion of how countries pay for health care and how we in America can fix things. The day we face this shit honestly and head on we have to admit failure and how our world views have led us to be treated like fools by the powers that be...insurance companies and their paid agents.

Why not consider a debate on the merits of this...Sick Around The World: How 5 Capitalist Democracies Pay For Health Care---Flaws and All?

Actually, from what I have seen, when opposing rational views about health care are discussed
with the left, most of them just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against right wing extremist talking points.

Go here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ainst-the-current-healthcare-reform-bill.html


that's the exception not the rule..........rational rarely enters into it.:cuckoo:

From my perspective I think people perceive it as the exception because the extremist view is given the media megaphone. The left wants to make is appear to be an exception by making it a rule not to discuss the rational arguments.
 
People here and other places are afraid of rational discussion of how countries pay for health care and how we in America can fix things. The day we face this shit honestly and head on we have to admit failure and how our world views have led us to be treated like fools by the powers that be...insurance companies and their paid agents.

Why not consider a debate on the merits of this...Sick Around The World: How 5 Capitalist Democracies Pay For Health Care---Flaws and All?

Actually, from what I have seen, when opposing rational views about health care are discussed with the left, most of them just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against right wing extremist talking points.

Go here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ainst-the-current-healthcare-reform-bill.html

when opposing rational views about health care are discussed ..., most ...just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against ...


With the left and the right I see this, but my dear friend I am a liberal and most definitely not of the left.


btw, why argue with talking points? It doesn't exactly make anyone look informed or intelligent.

I agree. What definition are you using for “liberal”? I could fit that term too, depending on the definition.

The Democrats are selling their plans for health care reform using these talking points. What is wrong with pointing out the problems with their talking points? Isn’t that what we do on this forum?

Also, I discussed specific details about what we are spending on health care. You asked earlier in this thread about what we are spending on health care. Perhaps you need to look at more of the picture behind this issue, rather than just a partial view as Kitten stated.
 
Obama realizes this also with the government run postal service. I just have to post this on all health care boards. These are HIS words today.

As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

I wonder what problems a government run health care system would entail, hmmmm skyrocketing taxes on everything and everyone, rationing of care, check out the taxes on gasoline in all of the countries who have socialized medicine- go to Ask Jeeves- taxes on gasoline in Italy, see the comparison over the last 20 years, they are more than double ours.

yeah and for how many decades have government checks went out on time...by the millions.

get a grip:eusa_whistle:
 
Actually, from what I have seen, when opposing rational views about health care are discussed with the left, most of them just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against right wing extremist talking points.

Go here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ainst-the-current-healthcare-reform-bill.html

when opposing rational views about health care are discussed ..., most ...just ignore it. They would prefer to look at only the partial picture and set up arguments against ...


With the left and the right I see this, but my dear friend I am a liberal and most definitely not of the left.


btw, why argue with talking points? It doesn't exactly make anyone look informed or intelligent.

I agree. What definition are you using for “liberal”? I could fit that term too, depending on the definition.

The Democrats are selling their plans for health care reform using these talking points. What is wrong with pointing out the problems with their talking points? Isn’t that what we do on this forum?

Also, I discussed specific details about what we are spending on health care. You asked earlier in this thread about what we are spending on health care. Perhaps you need to look at more of the picture behind this issue, rather than just a partial view as Kitten stated.

liberal and left are not interchangable terms. :eusa_pray:

we need health insurance reform...costs. why we do not have medicare part D using it's power tro get drugs at a lower cost is scandalous. :evil:
 
Obama realizes this also with the government run postal service. I just have to post this on all health care boards. These are HIS words today.

As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

I wonder what problems a government run health care system would entail, hmmmm skyrocketing taxes on everything and everyone, rationing of care, check out the taxes on gasoline in all of the countries who have socialized medicine- go to Ask Jeeves- taxes on gasoline in Italy, see the comparison over the last 20 years, they are more than double ours.

yeah and for how many decades have government checks went out on time...by the millions.

get a grip:eusa_whistle:

Wow ... yet they announced that they receive complaints of millions of those lost each year, thus they started a new free account for those who receive them ... how odd is that? :eusa_whistle:
 

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