Facing the Truth

[Hiryuu]

Thanks for the nice read.

I think you have reminded us all enough already, don't you think?

I read this article today. . . your thoughts?

It's a long read.

I'm not sure you are up for it.

The Fantasy of Black Nationalism
Whatever the 1960's may go down in history for, the resurgence of "black nationalism" will surely be high on, if…

Theodore Draper / Sept. 1, 1969
The Fantasy of Black Nationalism - Commentary Magazine
". . .This is not the place to try to settle this issue, even if it were within my capabilities. What strikes me most of all, however, is the many-sided specificity of the American Negro problem. It breaks out of one conceptual compartment after another and yet defies a synthesis of all of them. The Negro group is a “minority”—but it is unlike all other minority groups. It is a “class” for the vast majority of its members—but it extends beyond the class line. It has some likeness to a “caste”—but the basis of this caste—color—strikingly differentiates it from the classical Indian caste system. The only thing to do with such a phenomenon is to see it for itself and not to make it something else. American history, especially the appallingly incompatible heritage of slavery and democracy, the distribution of population, the ever more interdependent and interlocking economy, are among the circumstances which have molded the American Negro problem in ways that are both like and unlike any other. The colonial or national metaphor may be mistaken, but it evokes enough of the reality to be persuasive to those who are desperately looking for a quick answer. If fantasy is a substitute for reality, then the fantasy of black nationalism should help us to understand better the reality for which it is a substitute.

The cost of misunderstanding has become catastrophic. That black nationalism may not be the answer does not mean the present system can continue in the same old way. It must adapt itself to the new conditions brought about by the failure to wipe out the old ghettos which, instead, have spawned more and greater ghettos. The black rural enclaves and urban ghettos cannot create a new nation, but they can attempt to form a new type of “local political community,” as Professor Kennan has suggested. What it is going to be can only be dimly perceived at present. But of one thing we may be sure. As long as America permits black enclaves and ghettos, it cannot deny them representation of their own choosing—and remain true to itself or even avoid a conflagration. The democratic process itself must bring about far-reaching change in the relations of blacks and whites. Only political double bookkeeping and the most outrageous inequities prevented such change earlier. The critical problem at this stage is whether the new political communities, whatever they may be, will relate more or less realistically to the rest of the country or whether they will be infected with the nationalist fantasy and encourage a destructive—and self-destructive—separatism from the rest of the country. Once the fantasy sets in, no arrangement, however well-meaning, is workable. Whatever the road ahead, it can scarcely fail to be a hard one, full of bumps and sharp turns, threatening to many existing vested interests. But if the democratic road is blocked, the nationalist fantasy will loom larger and larger, even if it can destroy far more than it can create. There has been a white fantasy to get rid of blacks, and a black fantasy to get rid of whites. After more than two centuries, it is high time for both whites and blacks to get rid of their fantasies instead of each other."

Thanks for finding something that expresses intent to find a new idea and acknowledges the fact it may not work.

The second paragraph was more interesting to me, because it describes a common dilemma. You can take all the people (regardless of race or political affiliation) from a middle class suburban neighborhood, and put them in a ghetto. You could take all the people (regardless of race or political affiliation) from the ghetto, and put them in the middle class suburban neighborhood. You could have each neighborhood elect their own governing body. You could come back in 15 years and the what was the ghetto will be a middle class neighborhood, and what was the middle class neighborhood will be a ghetto.

Fixing the buildings isn't going to work, fixing the politics won't make a difference either. You have to fix the people for it to ever make a difference.

 

[MisterBeale]

Definition of opinion
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

• We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : approval, esteem

• I have no great opinion of his work.

2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

• a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view

• news programs that shape public opinion

3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

• My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

• The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Definition of fact
1 a : something that has actual existence

• space exploration is now a fact

b : an actual occurrence

• prove the fact of damage

2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality

• These are the hard facts of the case.

3 : the quality of being actual : actuality

• a question of fact hinges on evidence

4 : a thing done

I post these 2 definitions for a reason. Most of the whites here argue based on their opinion of things. Not on fact. Blacks are arguing on proven, verifiable things that have actually existed real occurrences, are based in objective reality and are actual things that have been done,

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race
By Emma Gray and Jessica Samakow

“We talk a lot about race in this country a lot, but we don’t include you [in] the conversation… I’m interested in how you feel.”

That’s the open-ended question award-winning filmmaker Jose Antonio Vargas poses to young white Americans in his (aptly named) new documentary: “White People.”

The content of the film is interesting, but only scratches the surface. (To read a smart critique of “White People,” go here.) But where the movie succeeds is in bringing up a basic truth that, unfortunately, many white people in this country are still terrified to face: We have to start talking about and interrogating our whiteness.

We are two white women. We are also self-described progressives and critical thinkers, who write professionally about the way sexuality, gender and race intersect with the world we live in. Yet we still recognize an internalized reticence to engage in conversations about race and racism. Neither of us can remember a clear moment in our young lives during which we realized we were white, and what that meant. When we’re pulled over by a cop, our biggest fear is that we might get an expensive speeding ticket. We have always seen faces that look like ours on TV and in movies. All of these things speak to the depth of our white privilege — and the fact that people of color certainly can’t say the same. We do not live in a “post-racial” world.

The same way men need to be forced to confront, interrogate and reckon with masculinity in order to address sexism, white people need to face their whiteness. And it is not the responsibility of people of color to educate white people about race. People of color don’t need to be taught that racism exists — they live it every day. It shouldn’t (and can’t) be on their shoulders to enlighten the rest of us. We have to do that for ourselves.

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race | HuffPost

Thanks for the nice read.

I think you have reminded us all enough already, don't you think?

I read this article today. . . your thoughts?

It's a long read.

I'm not sure you are up for it.

The Fantasy of Black Nationalism
Whatever the 1960's may go down in history for, the resurgence of "black nationalism" will surely be high on, if…

Theodore Draper / Sept. 1, 1969
The Fantasy of Black Nationalism - Commentary Magazine
". . .This is not the place to try to settle this issue, even if it were within my capabilities. What strikes me most of all, however, is the many-sided specificity of the American Negro problem. It breaks out of one conceptual compartment after another and yet defies a synthesis of all of them. The Negro group is a “minority”—but it is unlike all other minority groups. It is a “class” for the vast majority of its members—but it extends beyond the class line. It has some likeness to a “caste”—but the basis of this caste—color—strikingly differentiates it from the classical Indian caste system. The only thing to do with such a phenomenon is to see it for itself and not to make it something else. American history, especially the appallingly incompatible heritage of slavery and democracy, the distribution of population, the ever more interdependent and interlocking economy, are among the circumstances which have molded the American Negro problem in ways that are both like and unlike any other. The colonial or national metaphor may be mistaken, but it evokes enough of the reality to be persuasive to those who are desperately looking for a quick answer. If fantasy is a substitute for reality, then the fantasy of black nationalism should help us to understand better the reality for which it is a substitute.

The cost of misunderstanding has become catastrophic. That black nationalism may not be the answer does not mean the present system can continue in the same old way. It must adapt itself to the new conditions brought about by the failure to wipe out the old ghettos which, instead, have spawned more and greater ghettos. The black rural enclaves and urban ghettos cannot create a new nation, but they can attempt to form a new type of “local political community,” as Professor Kennan has suggested. What it is going to be can only be dimly perceived at present. But of one thing we may be sure. As long as America permits black enclaves and ghettos, it cannot deny them representation of their own choosing—and remain true to itself or even avoid a conflagration. The democratic process itself must bring about far-reaching change in the relations of blacks and whites. Only political double bookkeeping and the most outrageous inequities prevented such change earlier. The critical problem at this stage is whether the new political communities, whatever they may be, will relate more or less realistically to the rest of the country or whether they will be infected with the nationalist fantasy and encourage a destructive—and self-destructive—separatism from the rest of the country. Once the fantasy sets in, no arrangement, however well-meaning, is workable. Whatever the road ahead, it can scarcely fail to be a hard one, full of bumps and sharp turns, threatening to many existing vested interests. But if the democratic road is blocked, the nationalist fantasy will loom larger and larger, even if it can destroy far more than it can create. There has been a white fantasy to get rid of blacks, and a black fantasy to get rid of whites. After more than two centuries, it is high time for both whites and blacks to get rid of their fantasies instead of each other."

This is the race and racism section. As long as whites continually post threads abut blacks I will continue reminding whites of their continuing racism. I am not a black nationalist so your post has nothing to do with the OP.. So read the link in the OP and learn something. And the next time you posting use a white writer whose family didn't change it's name from Dubinsky to Draper because they knew it was a more acceptable white name.

No, even your avatar and the fact that you want reparations at this point in time, you are pretty much a black nationalist.

How would you feel if they abolished all black studies programs and integrated them into the rest of University life?

What if the congressional black caucus was dissolved because it was deemed racist?

I'm not saying I support any of that, but you dwell here in the race relations sub-forum and continue to post these articles, rather than make helpful contributions to the rest of the forum. When you see racism on the rest of the forum, it would be more helpful to point it out there, then dwell on it here. Racists up in the politics forum rarely give a shit about this sub-forum. They are glad of this sub-forum, it is like the back waters, the metaphorical ghetto, the cyber projects, it is the "institutional racism" of this forum, and YOU tolerate it. Why are you going to let them side line you? Do you think folks like Dale and I, who blow alarm bells about the Deep State, ever purposely actually START threads in the conspiracy forum, like the folks that run the place want us to? What are you nuts? It is a terrific way to get ignored about what's important to you.

You are either a shill, a house N...er, working for the man, or really stupid. Which is it?

Go up top where you can make a real difference man.

I really do think folks would NOT perceive you as a black nationalist if you made contributions to any part of the rest of the forum.

But would you have any identity at all if it were not for your ethnicity?




I don't know, you give off the impression to almost everyone that you're a black nationalist. If I started a poll, I can bet what the voting would reveal. Is that what you want?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Still no ‘reparations’, huh?

He would sell the mule and the 40 acres for a $50 dollar crack rock.

 

[Liberty777]

Holy cow....this OP has serious issues....

He’s a crazy white liberal pretending to be black, “serious issues” is being nice.

 

[Liberty777]

The usual crying and whining from the same whites.

Like yourself?

 

[IM2]

The usual crying and whining from the same whites.

Like yourself?

Since I'm not white....

 

[Hiryuu]

Since I'm not white....

We could use the same approach you use when suggesting that white people are racists whether or not they know it. You just don't realize you are white, and what we say is true no matter what the facts may be.

 

[IM2]

Since I'm not white....

We could use the same approach you use when suggesting that white people are racists whether or not they know it. You just don't realize you are white, and what we say is true no matter what the facts may be.

You can but you'd look stupid if we stood face to face. I don't suggest the whites here are racists. Their posts show me they are racist. And don't try the same old stupid false equivalences. You don't show any facts. Nor did what you just say make any sense.

 

[Hiryuu]

You can but you'd look stupid if we stood face to face.

I see you got the point I was making.

 

[MarcATL]

Thank you for another race baiting thread to help you feel good about why you think you are a victim.

Define "race baiting" please.

Thanks.

 

[Hiryuu]

Thank you for another race baiting thread to help you feel good about why you think you are a victim.

Define "race baiting" please.

Thanks.

Comments that use race in order to influence the actions of others. Most often associated with the attempt to suggest race as the primary defining factor in both causation and resolution, with a heavy reliance on past activities versus forward progression, and the assumption all parties are subject to, or beneficiaries of, all abuses, by their own will, absent the fact that is untrue.

 

[IM2]

Definition of opinion
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

• We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : approval, esteem

• I have no great opinion of his work.

2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

• a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view

• news programs that shape public opinion

3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

• My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

• The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Definition of fact
1 a : something that has actual existence

• space exploration is now a fact

b : an actual occurrence

• prove the fact of damage

2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality

• These are the hard facts of the case.

3 : the quality of being actual : actuality

• a question of fact hinges on evidence

4 : a thing done

I post these 2 definitions for a reason. Most of the whites here argue based on their opinion of things. Not on fact. Blacks are arguing on proven, verifiable things that have actually existed real occurrences, are based in objective reality and are actual things that have been done,

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race
By Emma Gray and Jessica Samakow

“We talk a lot about race in this country a lot, but we don’t include you [in] the conversation… I’m interested in how you feel.”

That’s the open-ended question award-winning filmmaker Jose Antonio Vargas poses to young white Americans in his (aptly named) new documentary: “White People.”

The content of the film is interesting, but only scratches the surface. (To read a smart critique of “White People,” go here.) But where the movie succeeds is in bringing up a basic truth that, unfortunately, many white people in this country are still terrified to face: We have to start talking about and interrogating our whiteness.

We are two white women. We are also self-described progressives and critical thinkers, who write professionally about the way sexuality, gender and race intersect with the world we live in. Yet we still recognize an internalized reticence to engage in conversations about race and racism. Neither of us can remember a clear moment in our young lives during which we realized we were white, and what that meant. When we’re pulled over by a cop, our biggest fear is that we might get an expensive speeding ticket. We have always seen faces that look like ours on TV and in movies. All of these things speak to the depth of our white privilege — and the fact that people of color certainly can’t say the same. We do not live in a “post-racial” world.

The same way men need to be forced to confront, interrogate and reckon with masculinity in order to address sexism, white people need to face their whiteness. And it is not the responsibility of people of color to educate white people about race. People of color don’t need to be taught that racism exists — they live it every day. It shouldn’t (and can’t) be on their shoulders to enlighten the rest of us. We have to do that for ourselves.

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race | HuffPost

Thanks for the nice read.

I think you have reminded us all enough already, don't you think?

I read this article today. . . your thoughts?

It's a long read.

I'm not sure you are up for it.

The Fantasy of Black Nationalism
Whatever the 1960's may go down in history for, the resurgence of "black nationalism" will surely be high on, if…

Theodore Draper / Sept. 1, 1969
The Fantasy of Black Nationalism - Commentary Magazine
". . .This is not the place to try to settle this issue, even if it were within my capabilities. What strikes me most of all, however, is the many-sided specificity of the American Negro problem. It breaks out of one conceptual compartment after another and yet defies a synthesis of all of them. The Negro group is a “minority”—but it is unlike all other minority groups. It is a “class” for the vast majority of its members—but it extends beyond the class line. It has some likeness to a “caste”—but the basis of this caste—color—strikingly differentiates it from the classical Indian caste system. The only thing to do with such a phenomenon is to see it for itself and not to make it something else. American history, especially the appallingly incompatible heritage of slavery and democracy, the distribution of population, the ever more interdependent and interlocking economy, are among the circumstances which have molded the American Negro problem in ways that are both like and unlike any other. The colonial or national metaphor may be mistaken, but it evokes enough of the reality to be persuasive to those who are desperately looking for a quick answer. If fantasy is a substitute for reality, then the fantasy of black nationalism should help us to understand better the reality for which it is a substitute.

The cost of misunderstanding has become catastrophic. That black nationalism may not be the answer does not mean the present system can continue in the same old way. It must adapt itself to the new conditions brought about by the failure to wipe out the old ghettos which, instead, have spawned more and greater ghettos. The black rural enclaves and urban ghettos cannot create a new nation, but they can attempt to form a new type of “local political community,” as Professor Kennan has suggested. What it is going to be can only be dimly perceived at present. But of one thing we may be sure. As long as America permits black enclaves and ghettos, it cannot deny them representation of their own choosing—and remain true to itself or even avoid a conflagration. The democratic process itself must bring about far-reaching change in the relations of blacks and whites. Only political double bookkeeping and the most outrageous inequities prevented such change earlier. The critical problem at this stage is whether the new political communities, whatever they may be, will relate more or less realistically to the rest of the country or whether they will be infected with the nationalist fantasy and encourage a destructive—and self-destructive—separatism from the rest of the country. Once the fantasy sets in, no arrangement, however well-meaning, is workable. Whatever the road ahead, it can scarcely fail to be a hard one, full of bumps and sharp turns, threatening to many existing vested interests. But if the democratic road is blocked, the nationalist fantasy will loom larger and larger, even if it can destroy far more than it can create. There has been a white fantasy to get rid of blacks, and a black fantasy to get rid of whites. After more than two centuries, it is high time for both whites and blacks to get rid of their fantasies instead of each other."

This is the race and racism section. As long as whites continually post threads abut blacks I will continue reminding whites of their continuing racism. I am not a black nationalist so your post has nothing to do with the OP.. So read the link in the OP and learn something. And the next time you posting use a white writer whose family didn't change it's name from Dubinsky to Draper because they knew it was a more acceptable white name.

No, even your avatar and the fact that you want reparations at this point in time, you are pretty much a black nationalist.

How would you feel if they abolished all black studies programs and integrated them into the rest of University life?

What if the congressional black caucus was dissolved because it was deemed racist?

I'm not saying I support any of that, but you dwell here in the race relations sub-forum and continue to post these articles, rather than make helpful contributions to the rest of the forum. When you see racism on the rest of the forum, it would be more helpful to point it out there, then dwell on it here. Racists up in the politics forum rarely give a shit about this sub-forum. They are glad of this sub-forum, it is like the back waters, the metaphorical ghetto, the cyber projects, it is the "institutional racism" of this forum, and YOU tolerate it. Why are you going to let them side line you? Do you think folks like Dale and I, who blow alarm bells about the Deep State, ever purposely actually START threads in the conspiracy forum, like the folks that run the place want us to? What are you nuts? It is a terrific way to get ignored about what's important to you.

You are either a shill, a house N...er, working for the man, or really stupid. Which is it?

Go up top where you can make a real difference man.

I really do think folks would NOT perceive you as a black nationalist if you made contributions to any part of the rest of the forum.

But would you have any identity at all if it were not for your ethnicity?




I don't know, you give off the impression to almost everyone that you're a black nationalist. If I started a poll, I can bet what the voting would reveal. Is that what you want?

I really could care less what you think. Black studies are integrated into university curriculums fool. The UN is for reparations. Is the UN a black nationalist organization? I am not a black separatist which is what dumb whites/non whites conflate with black nationalism. I'm about blacks controlling the resources, education, politics, property and economies in black communities just like whites do in theirs. I'm for blacks getting a better return on the taxes we put into local, state and federal coffers. If that is black nationalism so be it.

I've made real change son. I've fought city halls and got polices changed. You're not changing a damn thing. So I got your house boy, bitch.

 

[IM2]

Thank you for another race baiting thread to help you feel good about why you think you are a victim.

Define "race baiting" please.

Thanks.

Comments that use race in order to influence the actions of others. Most often associated with the attempt to suggest race as the primary defining factor in both causation and resolution, with a heavy reliance on past activities versus forward progression, and the assumption all parties are subject to, or beneficiaries of, all abuses, by their own will, absent the fact that is untrue.

If you're confused about what race-baiting is, here's a bit of context

This week, as the shooting of nine black churchgoers in South Carolina sparked a nationwide discussion of racism in America, Ian Tuttle at the conservative news site National Review published a takedown of activist DeRay McKesson, calling the #BlackLivesMatter organizer a “next-generation race-baiter.”

McKesson, he wrote, “has shown an unsurpassed ability to force every injustice, historical and contemporary, real and perceived, into a single framework: ‘Whiteness’ is wicked, ‘blackness’ is ‘beautiful.’”

It’s a classic misuse of the term “race-baiting,” a phrase used against those who dare to speak candidly about racism in America. In the Obama era, the right has embraced the term as a way of discrediting black people.

https://splinternews.com/if-youre-confused-about-what-race-baiting-is-heres-a-b-1793848630

What Race Baiting Really Means

Race Baiting is the new term being used by, what is considered to be right-wing media outlets – for anyone that brings up Race. It’s a negative term, at least the way it’s used. Basically what they are saying is that People are forcing them to Talk about Racism and how it impacts black people in America. Most of them do not believe it’s happening, because that’s a crucial element to keeping it going.

The Race Baiting Card And What It Really Means To Racists

Forward progression is not equality.

50 years after the Kerner Commission: African Americans are better off in many ways but are still disadvantaged by racial inequality

The year 1968 was a watershed in American history and black America’s ongoing fight for equality. In April of that year, Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated in Memphis and riots broke out in cities around the country. Rising against this tragedy, the Civil Rights Act of 1968 outlawing housing discrimination was signed into law. Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists in a black power salute as they received their medals at the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City. Arthur Ashe became the first African American to win the U.S. Open singles title, and Shirley Chisholm became the first African American woman elected to the House of Representatives.

The same year, the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, better known as the Kerner Commission, delivered a report to President Johnson examining the causes of civil unrest in African American communities. The report named “white racism”—leading to “pervasive discrimination in employment, education and housing”—as the culprit, and the report’s authors called for a commitment to “the realization of common opportunities for all within a single [racially undivided] society.”1 The Kerner Commission report pulled together a comprehensive array of data to assess the specific economic and social inequities confronting African Americans in 1968.

Where do we stand as a society today? In this brief report, we compare the state of black workers and their families in 1968 with the circumstances of their descendants today, 50 years after the Kerner report was released. We find both good news and bad news. While African Americans are in many ways better off in absolute terms than they were in 1968, they are still disadvantaged in important ways relative to whites. In several important respects, African Americans have actually lost ground relative to whites, and, in a few cases, even relative to African Americans in 1968.

50 years after the Kerner Commission: African Americans are better off in many ways but are still disadvantaged by racial inequality

 

[IM2]

You can but you'd look stupid if we stood face to face.

I see you got the point I was making.

You made no point. That was a silly comment.

 

[Hiryuu]

You made no point. That was a silly comment.

It's possible I made my point, you recognized it, but you are still too stupid to realize you did.

 

[Hiryuu]

If you're confused about what race-baiting is, here's a bit of context

This week, as the shooting of nine black churchgoers in South Carolina sparked a nationwide discussion of racism in America, Ian Tuttle at the conservative news site National Review published a takedown of activist DeRay McKesson, calling the #BlackLivesMatter organizer a “next-generation race-baiter.”

McKesson, he wrote, “has shown an unsurpassed ability to force every injustice, historical and contemporary, real and perceived, into a single framework: ‘Whiteness’ is wicked, ‘blackness’ is ‘beautiful.’”

It’s a classic misuse of the term “race-baiting,” a phrase used against those who dare to speak candidly about racism in America. In the Obama era, the right has embraced the term as a way of discrediting black people.

https://splinternews.com/if-youre-confused-about-what-race-baiting-is-heres-a-b-1793848630

What Race Baiting Really Means

Race Baiting is the new term being used by, what is considered to be right-wing media outlets – for anyone that brings up Race. It’s a negative term, at least the way it’s used. Basically what they are saying is that People are forcing them to Talk about Racism and how it impacts black people in America. Most of them do not believe it’s happening, because that’s a crucial element to keeping it going.

The Race Baiting Card And What It Really Means To Racists

Forward progression is not equality.

50 years after the Kerner Commission: African Americans are better off in many ways but are still disadvantaged by racial inequality

The year 1968 was a watershed in American history and black America’s ongoing fight for equality. In April of that year, Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated in Memphis and riots broke out in cities around the country. Rising against this tragedy, the Civil Rights Act of 1968 outlawing housing discrimination was signed into law. Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists in a black power salute as they received their medals at the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City. Arthur Ashe became the first African American to win the U.S. Open singles title, and Shirley Chisholm became the first African American woman elected to the House of Representatives.

The same year, the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, better known as the Kerner Commission, delivered a report to President Johnson examining the causes of civil unrest in African American communities. The report named “white racism”—leading to “pervasive discrimination in employment, education and housing”—as the culprit, and the report’s authors called for a commitment to “the realization of common opportunities for all within a single [racially undivided] society.”1 The Kerner Commission report pulled together a comprehensive array of data to assess the specific economic and social inequities confronting African Americans in 1968.

Where do we stand as a society today? In this brief report, we compare the state of black workers and their families in 1968 with the circumstances of their descendants today, 50 years after the Kerner report was released. We find both good news and bad news. While African Americans are in many ways better off in absolute terms than they were in 1968, they are still disadvantaged in important ways relative to whites. In several important respects, African Americans have actually lost ground relative to whites, and, in a few cases, even relative to African Americans in 1968.

50 years after the Kerner Commission: African Americans are better off in many ways but are still disadvantaged by racial inequality

You're absolutely correct that what you posted is race baiting. Thanks for providing another example.

 

[Rambunctious]

Since I'm not white....

Bull.....

 

[MisterBeale]

Definition of opinion
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

• We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : approval, esteem

• I have no great opinion of his work.

2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

• a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view

• news programs that shape public opinion

3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

• My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

• The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Definition of fact
1 a : something that has actual existence

• space exploration is now a fact

b : an actual occurrence

• prove the fact of damage

2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality

• These are the hard facts of the case.

3 : the quality of being actual : actuality

• a question of fact hinges on evidence

4 : a thing done

I post these 2 definitions for a reason. Most of the whites here argue based on their opinion of things. Not on fact. Blacks are arguing on proven, verifiable things that have actually existed real occurrences, are based in objective reality and are actual things that have been done,

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race
By Emma Gray and Jessica Samakow

“We talk a lot about race in this country a lot, but we don’t include you [in] the conversation… I’m interested in how you feel.”

That’s the open-ended question award-winning filmmaker Jose Antonio Vargas poses to young white Americans in his (aptly named) new documentary: “White People.”

The content of the film is interesting, but only scratches the surface. (To read a smart critique of “White People,” go here.) But where the movie succeeds is in bringing up a basic truth that, unfortunately, many white people in this country are still terrified to face: We have to start talking about and interrogating our whiteness.

We are two white women. We are also self-described progressives and critical thinkers, who write professionally about the way sexuality, gender and race intersect with the world we live in. Yet we still recognize an internalized reticence to engage in conversations about race and racism. Neither of us can remember a clear moment in our young lives during which we realized we were white, and what that meant. When we’re pulled over by a cop, our biggest fear is that we might get an expensive speeding ticket. We have always seen faces that look like ours on TV and in movies. All of these things speak to the depth of our white privilege — and the fact that people of color certainly can’t say the same. We do not live in a “post-racial” world.

The same way men need to be forced to confront, interrogate and reckon with masculinity in order to address sexism, white people need to face their whiteness. And it is not the responsibility of people of color to educate white people about race. People of color don’t need to be taught that racism exists — they live it every day. It shouldn’t (and can’t) be on their shoulders to enlighten the rest of us. We have to do that for ourselves.

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race | HuffPost

Thanks for the nice read.

I think you have reminded us all enough already, don't you think?

I read this article today. . . your thoughts?

It's a long read.

I'm not sure you are up for it.

The Fantasy of Black Nationalism
Whatever the 1960's may go down in history for, the resurgence of "black nationalism" will surely be high on, if…

Theodore Draper / Sept. 1, 1969
The Fantasy of Black Nationalism - Commentary Magazine
". . .This is not the place to try to settle this issue, even if it were within my capabilities. What strikes me most of all, however, is the many-sided specificity of the American Negro problem. It breaks out of one conceptual compartment after another and yet defies a synthesis of all of them. The Negro group is a “minority”—but it is unlike all other minority groups. It is a “class” for the vast majority of its members—but it extends beyond the class line. It has some likeness to a “caste”—but the basis of this caste—color—strikingly differentiates it from the classical Indian caste system. The only thing to do with such a phenomenon is to see it for itself and not to make it something else. American history, especially the appallingly incompatible heritage of slavery and democracy, the distribution of population, the ever more interdependent and interlocking economy, are among the circumstances which have molded the American Negro problem in ways that are both like and unlike any other. The colonial or national metaphor may be mistaken, but it evokes enough of the reality to be persuasive to those who are desperately looking for a quick answer. If fantasy is a substitute for reality, then the fantasy of black nationalism should help us to understand better the reality for which it is a substitute.

The cost of misunderstanding has become catastrophic. That black nationalism may not be the answer does not mean the present system can continue in the same old way. It must adapt itself to the new conditions brought about by the failure to wipe out the old ghettos which, instead, have spawned more and greater ghettos. The black rural enclaves and urban ghettos cannot create a new nation, but they can attempt to form a new type of “local political community,” as Professor Kennan has suggested. What it is going to be can only be dimly perceived at present. But of one thing we may be sure. As long as America permits black enclaves and ghettos, it cannot deny them representation of their own choosing—and remain true to itself or even avoid a conflagration. The democratic process itself must bring about far-reaching change in the relations of blacks and whites. Only political double bookkeeping and the most outrageous inequities prevented such change earlier. The critical problem at this stage is whether the new political communities, whatever they may be, will relate more or less realistically to the rest of the country or whether they will be infected with the nationalist fantasy and encourage a destructive—and self-destructive—separatism from the rest of the country. Once the fantasy sets in, no arrangement, however well-meaning, is workable. Whatever the road ahead, it can scarcely fail to be a hard one, full of bumps and sharp turns, threatening to many existing vested interests. But if the democratic road is blocked, the nationalist fantasy will loom larger and larger, even if it can destroy far more than it can create. There has been a white fantasy to get rid of blacks, and a black fantasy to get rid of whites. After more than two centuries, it is high time for both whites and blacks to get rid of their fantasies instead of each other."

This is the race and racism section. As long as whites continually post threads abut blacks I will continue reminding whites of their continuing racism. I am not a black nationalist so your post has nothing to do with the OP.. So read the link in the OP and learn something. And the next time you posting use a white writer whose family didn't change it's name from Dubinsky to Draper because they knew it was a more acceptable white name.

No, even your avatar and the fact that you want reparations at this point in time, you are pretty much a black nationalist.

How would you feel if they abolished all black studies programs and integrated them into the rest of University life?

What if the congressional black caucus was dissolved because it was deemed racist?

I'm not saying I support any of that, but you dwell here in the race relations sub-forum and continue to post these articles, rather than make helpful contributions to the rest of the forum. When you see racism on the rest of the forum, it would be more helpful to point it out there, then dwell on it here. Racists up in the politics forum rarely give a shit about this sub-forum. They are glad of this sub-forum, it is like the back waters, the metaphorical ghetto, the cyber projects, it is the "institutional racism" of this forum, and YOU tolerate it. Why are you going to let them side line you? Do you think folks like Dale and I, who blow alarm bells about the Deep State, ever purposely actually START threads in the conspiracy forum, like the folks that run the place want us to? What are you nuts? It is a terrific way to get ignored about what's important to you.

You are either a shill, a house N...er, working for the man, or really stupid. Which is it?

Go up top where you can make a real difference man.

I really do think folks would NOT perceive you as a black nationalist if you made contributions to any part of the rest of the forum.

But would you have any identity at all if it were not for your ethnicity?




I don't know, you give off the impression to almost everyone that you're a black nationalist. If I started a poll, I can bet what the voting would reveal. Is that what you want?

I really could care less what you think. Black studies are integrated into university curriculums fool. The UN is for reparations. Is the UN a black nationalist organization? I am not a black separatist which is what dumb whites/non whites conflate with black nationalism. I'm about blacks controlling the resources, education, politics, property and economies in black communities just like whites do in theirs. I'm for blacks getting a better return on the taxes we put into local, state and federal coffers. If that is black nationalism so be it.

I've made real change son. I've fought city halls and got polices changed. You're not changing a damn thing. So I got your house boy, bitch.

Thank you for admitting it.

The point of that article was, WE ARE ONE NATION.

You just admitted that you want two separate nations within the same territorial local, two identities. Much like the Palestinians continue to fight for.

Folks that have Japanese, Chinese, Latino, Italian, French, Polish, Indian, etc. ancestry see themselves as American and simple want to be part of the American cultural experience.

That is not what you want. You hate America.


btw, the UN is a world socialist organization. The hate the nation states that compose it.

 

[Taz]

Face the truth, blacks are the most concerned with race and racists.

 

[Liberty777]

Definition of opinion
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

• We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : approval, esteem

• I have no great opinion of his work.

2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

• a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view

• news programs that shape public opinion

3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

• My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

• The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Definition of fact
1 a : something that has actual existence

• space exploration is now a fact

b : an actual occurrence

• prove the fact of damage

2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality

• These are the hard facts of the case.

3 : the quality of being actual : actuality

• a question of fact hinges on evidence

4 : a thing done

I post these 2 definitions for a reason. Most of the whites here argue based on their opinion of things. Not on fact. Blacks are arguing on proven, verifiable things that have actually existed real occurrences, are based in objective reality and are actual things that have been done,

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race
By Emma Gray and Jessica Samakow

“We talk a lot about race in this country a lot, but we don’t include you [in] the conversation… I’m interested in how you feel.”

That’s the open-ended question award-winning filmmaker Jose Antonio Vargas poses to young white Americans in his (aptly named) new documentary: “White People.”

The content of the film is interesting, but only scratches the surface. (To read a smart critique of “White People,” go here.) But where the movie succeeds is in bringing up a basic truth that, unfortunately, many white people in this country are still terrified to face: We have to start talking about and interrogating our whiteness.

We are two white women. We are also self-described progressives and critical thinkers, who write professionally about the way sexuality, gender and race intersect with the world we live in. Yet we still recognize an internalized reticence to engage in conversations about race and racism. Neither of us can remember a clear moment in our young lives during which we realized we were white, and what that meant. When we’re pulled over by a cop, our biggest fear is that we might get an expensive speeding ticket. We have always seen faces that look like ours on TV and in movies. All of these things speak to the depth of our white privilege — and the fact that people of color certainly can’t say the same. We do not live in a “post-racial” world.

The same way men need to be forced to confront, interrogate and reckon with masculinity in order to address sexism, white people need to face their whiteness. And it is not the responsibility of people of color to educate white people about race. People of color don’t need to be taught that racism exists — they live it every day. It shouldn’t (and can’t) be on their shoulders to enlighten the rest of us. We have to do that for ourselves.

11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race | HuffPost

Thanks for the nice read.

I think you have reminded us all enough already, don't you think?

I read this article today. . . your thoughts?

It's a long read.

I'm not sure you are up for it.

The Fantasy of Black Nationalism
Whatever the 1960's may go down in history for, the resurgence of "black nationalism" will surely be high on, if…

Theodore Draper / Sept. 1, 1969
The Fantasy of Black Nationalism - Commentary Magazine
". . .This is not the place to try to settle this issue, even if it were within my capabilities. What strikes me most of all, however, is the many-sided specificity of the American Negro problem. It breaks out of one conceptual compartment after another and yet defies a synthesis of all of them. The Negro group is a “minority”—but it is unlike all other minority groups. It is a “class” for the vast majority of its members—but it extends beyond the class line. It has some likeness to a “caste”—but the basis of this caste—color—strikingly differentiates it from the classical Indian caste system. The only thing to do with such a phenomenon is to see it for itself and not to make it something else. American history, especially the appallingly incompatible heritage of slavery and democracy, the distribution of population, the ever more interdependent and interlocking economy, are among the circumstances which have molded the American Negro problem in ways that are both like and unlike any other. The colonial or national metaphor may be mistaken, but it evokes enough of the reality to be persuasive to those who are desperately looking for a quick answer. If fantasy is a substitute for reality, then the fantasy of black nationalism should help us to understand better the reality for which it is a substitute.

The cost of misunderstanding has become catastrophic. That black nationalism may not be the answer does not mean the present system can continue in the same old way. It must adapt itself to the new conditions brought about by the failure to wipe out the old ghettos which, instead, have spawned more and greater ghettos. The black rural enclaves and urban ghettos cannot create a new nation, but they can attempt to form a new type of “local political community,” as Professor Kennan has suggested. What it is going to be can only be dimly perceived at present. But of one thing we may be sure. As long as America permits black enclaves and ghettos, it cannot deny them representation of their own choosing—and remain true to itself or even avoid a conflagration. The democratic process itself must bring about far-reaching change in the relations of blacks and whites. Only political double bookkeeping and the most outrageous inequities prevented such change earlier. The critical problem at this stage is whether the new political communities, whatever they may be, will relate more or less realistically to the rest of the country or whether they will be infected with the nationalist fantasy and encourage a destructive—and self-destructive—separatism from the rest of the country. Once the fantasy sets in, no arrangement, however well-meaning, is workable. Whatever the road ahead, it can scarcely fail to be a hard one, full of bumps and sharp turns, threatening to many existing vested interests. But if the democratic road is blocked, the nationalist fantasy will loom larger and larger, even if it can destroy far more than it can create. There has been a white fantasy to get rid of blacks, and a black fantasy to get rid of whites. After more than two centuries, it is high time for both whites and blacks to get rid of their fantasies instead of each other."

This is the race and racism section. As long as whites continually post threads abut blacks I will continue reminding whites of their continuing racism. I am not a black nationalist so your post has nothing to do with the OP.. So read the link in the OP and learn something. And the next time you posting use a white writer whose family didn't change it's name from Dubinsky to Draper because they knew it was a more acceptable white name.

No, even your avatar and the fact that you want reparations at this point in time, you are pretty much a black nationalist.

How would you feel if they abolished all black studies programs and integrated them into the rest of University life?

What if the congressional black caucus was dissolved because it was deemed racist?

I'm not saying I support any of that, but you dwell here in the race relations sub-forum and continue to post these articles, rather than make helpful contributions to the rest of the forum. When you see racism on the rest of the forum, it would be more helpful to point it out there, then dwell on it here. Racists up in the politics forum rarely give a shit about this sub-forum. They are glad of this sub-forum, it is like the back waters, the metaphorical ghetto, the cyber projects, it is the "institutional racism" of this forum, and YOU tolerate it. Why are you going to let them side line you? Do you think folks like Dale and I, who blow alarm bells about the Deep State, ever purposely actually START threads in the conspiracy forum, like the folks that run the place want us to? What are you nuts? It is a terrific way to get ignored about what's important to you.

You are either a shill, a house N...er, working for the man, or really stupid. Which is it?

Go up top where you can make a real difference man.

I really do think folks would NOT perceive you as a black nationalist if you made contributions to any part of the rest of the forum.

But would you have any identity at all if it were not for your ethnicity?




I don't know, you give off the impression to almost everyone that you're a black nationalist. If I started a poll, I can bet what the voting would reveal. Is that what you want?

I really could care less what you think. Black studies are integrated into university curriculums fool. The UN is for reparations. Is the UN a black nationalist organization? I am not a black separatist which is what dumb whites/non whites conflate with black nationalism. I'm about blacks controlling the resources, education, politics, property and economies in black communities just like whites do in theirs. I'm for blacks getting a better return on the taxes we put into local, state and federal coffers. If that is black nationalism so be it.

I've made real change son. I've fought city halls and got polices changed. You're not changing a damn thing. So I got your house boy, bitch.

What changes have you’ve made?