F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[DrainBamage]

The F-35 program death spiral that Manonthestreet confidently predicted continues, the Singapore decision is now official with initial purchase request for four F-35s with option for 8 more.

Interesting = sounds like they might be buying the Bee.

Singapore plans to buy four F-35 jets with option for eight more | Reuters
Ng added it was an “opportune time” for Singapore to put in the request because the price of F-35s - which ranges from $90 million to $115 million - has been steadily falling amid high demand from the United States and ten other countries, including Britain, Italy, Australia, Japan and South Korea. A Lockheed executive told Reuters a year earlier that talks with Singapore had centered on the F-35B version short take-off and landing variant that is “a nice fit for a smaller land-constrained environment”. Lockheed did not respond to a request for comment on Friday. Singapore’s fleet of around 60 F-16 jets, which first entered service in 1998, will be retired soon after 2030.

 

[Manonthestreet]

How bad is the F-35's computerized maintenance system, ALIS? So bad the plane may be better off without it.
Air Force Tries To Fix F-35’s ALIS — From A Big, Broken Box To the Cloud

 

[Daryl Hunt]

How bad is the F-35's computerized maintenance system, ALIS? So bad the plane may be better off without it.
Air Force Tries To Fix F-35’s ALIS — From A Big, Broken Box To the Cloud

From your own cite......

To be fair, Roper did say that much of the functional software in ALIS — the stuff that does specific tasks — works well, so they shouldn’t need to start from scratch. But the Mad Hatter team needs to repackage that still-usable code into something military maintainers can actually use to do their jobs, instead of something that makes their jobs much harder

If Alic isn't working, the other option is the tried and true forms. And that is as accurate and is as almost as old as flight itself. But Alic does work. They are trying to make it smaller. And anytime you make something smaller on a F-35 you made room for new weapon systems. Thank you for showing the ways that the F-35 is being made even better.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Still a boondoggle after all these years F-15x to rescue ...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Still a boondoggle after all these years F-15x to rescue ...

The F-15X sits quietly in the background waiting for the F-35 to tell him when and where to launch. With all that hardware hanging off him (22 missiles and bombs) his radar signature is more like the Chrysler Building. And the F-35 can do this job without even letting the enemy know he's there. When you launch an Air To Air missile at 100 miles using Radar, you have almost no chance of hitting your target since there will be a miriad of things that can go wrong and your enemy has quite a warning time. But when you launch the missile at 100 miles with NO radar and it's passively guided in the only real warning will be your close IR detectors and visual giving you only a couple of seconds time to react. The F-15X can communicate with the F-35 and the F-22 this same way. The F-15C, F-16 and F-18 can only communicate with the F-35.

The only thing the F-15X is rescuing is is the F-15 program itself which is still flying upgraded 1970 series F-15As which should have been taken out of inventory decades ago.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F35 low slow ...not invisible as claimed.....blow torch onits tail will give it away .. great propaganda though

 

[Daryl Hunt]

F35 low slow ...not invisible as claimed.....blow torch onits tail will give it away .. great propaganda though

You are right if you are within 35 miles of it. If you aren't then your IR is worthless. And the F-35 is already tracking you at 90 to 100 miles and can come within range to fire even an IR missile that you won't pickup until it enters that 35 miles. Hate to break it to you but the F-35 even makes a F-22 look like it's standing out like a sore thumb and the F-22 can sneak up on just about anything out there. The idea isn't to have to turn, jinx and dive, the idea is to make the other guy have to turn, jinx and dive.

Your Russian and Chinese Propaganda is noted, comrade.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Fine propo.....in a real war against major powers you won't have time to maintain all that stealth coating due to time it takes to apply ....good luck ....let me know when it does something verifiable besides generate propo.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Fine propo.....in a real war against major powers you won't have time to maintain all that stealth coating due to time it takes to apply ....good luck ....let me know when it does something verifiable besides generate propo.

The F-22 uses Stealth Coating and when it mars the whole bird has to head for the Paint Shop for the next 3 days. The F-35 has it baked in where it's tougher. Plus, when one of the panels does show wear, they change out just the panel and send just the panel to the repair facility. Keep hammering and you keep looking like a complete idjit.

 

[DrainBamage]

F35 low slow ...not invisible as claimed.....blow torch onits tail will give it away .. great propaganda though

Like anyone who's going through the motions at this point but knows they cannot logically argue their point, I know you'll ignore these questions but I'll ask anyway:

1. Which flies faster, a combat loaded F-35 or F-16?
2. Which flies higher, a combat loaded F-35 or F-16?
3. Who claimed it was invisible?
4. How does it's IR signature compare to other aircraft?

In fact I'll go ahead and answer for you.
1. F-35
2. F-35
3. Nobody
4. Unknown

Thanks for playing, we enjoy shoving every post you've made in this thread back down your throat, you are the true definition of village idiot around here.

 

[DrainBamage]

Still a boondoggle after all these years F-15x to rescue ...

Yeah we know, you were the one quoting F-22 kill ratios as gospel in this very thread a few years ago, all based on Red Flag performance. F-35 does the same and suddenly Red Flag doesn't count, it's all propaganda, all these pilots from different services and countries are lying, etc.

 

[SandSquid]

Fine propo.....in a real war against major powers you won't have time to maintain all that stealth coating due to time it takes to apply ....good luck ....let me know when it does something verifiable besides generate propo.

Dude. You just got called out for lying. Either purposefully or out of ignorance I am not sure which.

And now you throw out another lie right behind that blindly.

I think it would be best if you first chose to educate yourself on the topic at hand, and then, maybe, make a decision to return with educated comments rather than ignorantly throwing darts at a board blindly and hoping one sticks.

 

[DrainBamage]

What ManOnTheStreet is engaged in is stubbornly sticking to his original argument despite overwhelming evidence that has build over the ensuing years clearly proving he was wrong. He's one of those folks who's self-esteem is so low he would rather look more and more foolish by lying, ignoring information that isn't convenient, and pretending not to see responses that paint him into a corner just so the man-child doesn't have admit to himself that he was wrong about something.

Even some of the sources he used as gospel in this thread years ago ("I have the most links" he would say) have come around and now write content pointing out the strengths of the airplane, yet ManOnTheStreet continue slogging forward looking more like a clown every page of this thread.

It's both sad and fascinating to witness.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Fine propo.....in a real war against major powers you won't have time to maintain all that stealth coating due to time it takes to apply ....good luck ....let me know when it does something verifiable besides generate propo.

Dude. You just got called out for lying. Either purposefully or out of ignorance I am not sure which.

And now you throw out another lie right behind that blindly.

I think it would be best if you first chose to educate yourself on the topic at hand, and then, maybe, make a decision to return with educated comments rather than ignorantly throwing darts at a board blindly and hoping one sticks.

ok
list any combat accomplishments or magic shootdowns,,,,,Why do you think they want F-15s and F18s.....cause they know it cant do all of what was claimed, They wont say that,,,,,but if they were confident in it this wouldn't be happening,

 

[Manonthestreet]

Still a boondoggle after all these years F-15x to rescue ...

Yeah we know, you were the one quoting F-22 kill ratios as gospel in this very thread a few years ago, all based on Red Flag performance. F-35 does the same and suddenly Red Flag doesn't count, it's all propaganda, all these pilots from different services and countries are lying, etc.

F-35 cant do the same cause its not as stealthy....cant fly as high and has a blowtorch tail...…...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Fine propo.....in a real war against major powers you won't have time to maintain all that stealth coating due to time it takes to apply ....good luck ....let me know when it does something verifiable besides generate propo.

Dude. You just got called out for lying. Either purposefully or out of ignorance I am not sure which.

And now you throw out another lie right behind that blindly.

I think it would be best if you first chose to educate yourself on the topic at hand, and then, maybe, make a decision to return with educated comments rather than ignorantly throwing darts at a board blindly and hoping one sticks.

ok
list any combat accomplishments or magic shootdowns,,,,,Why do you think they want F-15s and F18s.....cause they know it cant do all of what was claimed, They wont say that,,,,,but if they were confident in it this wouldn't be happening,

The B is used in Combat in the Middle East on a Daily Basis. It's so routine that it doesn't even rate a news byline anymore. The As and Bs are in the East scaring the hell out of everyone. The Chinese don't know if thye are there or not in their contested airspace. NK can't seem to track them near their borders. If nothing else, they are keeping the lid on everything. If either NK or the Chinese makes a opportunity "Mistake" chances are either a F-22 or a F-35 will see it and react to it. Both the F-22 and the F-35 have seen combat and have performed well, In fact, the F-35 flies multiple mission per day which the F-22 can't. And if you believe the F-35 is underpowered, the F-35A can be in combat trim and accelerate straight up without after burner. It can go from zero energy to straight up flight with no problems with afterburner in combat trim. I don't know of any fighter than can do that other than the F-35A. I wonder what the top speed really is on the A. I can see the B limited to 1.6+ with all that extra weight. I can see the C limited to that as well with all that extra wing drag and extra weight. But I wonder what the hotrod A can do. I have a feeling it's closer to the F-16 than not on top speed and can probably reach it much faster. But it's going to be a lot of years before us Sillyvillians will ever know that.

They didn't find any new uses for the F-15. The F-15C and D are just old, really old and need to be replaced. They are replacing them on a one for one basis with the new X. Same missions. The fact they are working with the F-22 and F-35 just like the C, D and E is a huge plus carrying all that extra weapons. It's just a damned good idea that makes the combination of the F-15, F-16, F-22 and F-35 even more deadly. And it releases some of the F-35s to work with other weapons systems like Naval and Ground Systems for over the Horizon. Imagine having a naval missile that is limited to only about 250 miles due the curvature of the earth for their radar getting help from the F-35 getting it out to over 500 miles. Same goes for the A helping with the Ground Installations. The F-15X isn't just working with the F-35. It's also working with the F-22 making those few into many. The F-15X is becoming the Missile Truck that they envisioned the B-1 becoming. The B-1 was progged to carry 36 but would have been downright expensive and couldn't have defended itself. The F-15X carries 22 at a fraction of the cost and can defend itself. This is probably one of the most brilliant ideas that the Military has come up with yet and they needed a win.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Still a boondoggle after all these years F-15x to rescue ...

Yeah we know, you were the one quoting F-22 kill ratios as gospel in this very thread a few years ago, all based on Red Flag performance. F-35 does the same and suddenly Red Flag doesn't count, it's all propaganda, all these pilots from different services and countries are lying, etc.

F-35 cant do the same cause its not as stealthy....cant fly as high and has a blowtorch tail...…...

Once again, you are letting your mouth run out your tail again. Since they incorporated the Stealth Mesh, it's now more stealthy than the F-22. It's now as stealthy as the B-2. It went from the signature of a BB to that of a mosquito. And the A can fly in excess of 50K. How much? They ain't saying. The 50K+ and Mach 1.6+ is for the B model. It doesn't apply to the A which is lighter and more powerful. I hope any enemy that flies against it think like you do. It's going to be suicidal.

 

[WorldWatcher]

And it releases some of the F-35s to work with other weapons systems like Naval and Ground Systems for over the Horizon. Imagine having a naval missile that is limited to only about 250 miles due the curvature of the earth for their radar getting help from the F-35 getting it out to over 500 miles.

Just to clarify. The curvature of the earth doesn't impact missile range, that's a function of the physical properties of the missile. The ability to provide targeting data over the RADAR horizon is a function of altitude. Roughly speaking at 100 feet, the RADAR Horizon is about 10 miles. Targeting solutions for shipboard systems being provided by aircraft isn't a new idea, it's been around for years.

The E-2 Hawkeye isn't pretty, isn't fast, and is altitude limited because of it's turbo prop's (between 25K-30K depending on fuel load). Station a Hawkeye about 150-200 miles from the ship and with it's 250 mile range you have 400-450 miles and working with fighters in a CAP profile you can extend that even further. Take an F-35 by themselves out to 500 miles and you loose communications unless it's being routed via SATCOM because the radios on the F-35 are going to run into the Radio Horizon limits of VHF/UHF communications system which can be limited based on radio power output/sensitivity as well as curvature. For two aircraft communicating usually it will be power over curvature that can be the limiting factor.

Not knocking the F-35 at all, and it's altitude/range can absolutely help extend the range of ship-based missile systems. Just say'n that their capabilities will be extended through the support and command and control of their Navy's ugly duckling eye in the sky.

It's all about integrated threat management and the F-35 will be part of an overall system.
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[Daryl Hunt]

And it releases some of the F-35s to work with other weapons systems like Naval and Ground Systems for over the Horizon. Imagine having a naval missile that is limited to only about 250 miles due the curvature of the earth for their radar getting help from the F-35 getting it out to over 500 miles.

Just to clarify. The curvature of the earth doesn't impact missile range, that's a function of the physical properties of the missile. The ability to provide targeting data over the RADAR horizon is a function of altitude. Roughly speaking at 100 feet, the RADAR Horizon is about 10 miles. Targeting solutions for shipboard systems being provided by aircraft isn't a new idea, it's been around for years.

The E-2 Hawkeye isn't pretty, isn't fast, and is altitude limited because of it's turbo prop's (between 25K-30K depending on fuel load). Station a Hawkeye about 150-200 miles from the ship and with it's 250 mile range you have 400-450 miles and working with fighters in a CAP profile you can extend that even further. Take an F-35 by themselves out to 500 miles and you loose communications unless it's being routed via SATCOM because the radios on the F-35 are going to run into the Radio Horizon limits of VHF/UHF communications system which can be limited based on radio power output/sensitivity as well as curvature. For two aircraft communicating usually it will be power over curvature that can be the limiting factor.

Not knocking the F-35 at all, and it's altitude/range can absolutely help extend the range of ship-based missile systems. Just say'n that their capabilities will be extended through the support and command and control of their Navy's ugly duckling eye in the sky.

It's all about integrated threat management and the F-35 will be part of an overall system.
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Radar has a range limit due to the curvature of the earth. It will be much further than line of sight but it's still affected. It's normally about 240 miles give or take. Ships have that problem when targeting. The Navy needs those eyes in the sky in order to exceed that range even if it's an E-2 or an EA-18G. The problem is, both of those are a bit vulnerable in comparison to the F-35B.

Sorry, you can't change Physics to suit yourself.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Radar has a range limit due to the curvature of the earth. It will be much further than line of sight but it's still affected. It's normally about 240 miles give or take. Ships have that problem when targeting. The Navy needs those eyes in the sky in order to exceed that range even if it's an E-2 or an EA-18G. The problem is, both of those are a bit vulnerable in comparison to the F-35B.

Sorry, you can't change Physics to suit yourself.

:Scratching Head:

What physics did I change to suit myself.

I noted that RADAR Horizon is a function of altitude. At about 100 feet above sea level RADAR Horizon is about 10 miles. At altitude we could "see" much farther. Our RADAR Horizon at altitude was about 250 miles for surface targets. For air-to-air targets (at altitude) curvature was less of a factor that PRF and sensitivity of the receiver.

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