AgentBond007
Platinum Member
- Jun 7, 2012
- 102
- 73
- 543
Electronic Inti-Farta?
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You're just a racist imbecile.
Who will hopefully be banned like all sock-puppet turds do.
you mean like your old sock jstone ?
Are you talking about the Israelis that choose to raise their children in a war zone?
Imbecile, if that "logic" is applied then israel can kill every pal arab muslim. At least pretend you have a brain and think before writing.
Are you talking about the Israelis that choose to raise their children in a war zone?
Imbecile, if that "logic" is applied then israel can kill every pal arab muslim. At least pretend you have a brain and think before writing.
If I was Jewish, you wouldn't catch me in Israel for all the shekels in Tel Aviv. The whole area is a war zone, only fools purposely raise a family in a war zone when there are other options that are safer and better for your children.
Saigon,
Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by about 4 nations in the world, the EU is not a nation. The rest of the world does not call Hamas a terrorist organization. I see them as human beings. When Israel targets and kills and injures civilians, they act as a Terrorist State. I do not really have much use for the terrorist label. The US is involved in many terrorist attacks, too. We are always hearing about civilians they bomb and kill.
It is kind of funny, about the US, we become terrorists to fight terrorism. That is pathetic, actually, not really funny at all, but there is a lot of irony in all of that.
Sherri
Sherri -
I do consider Hamas as a terrorist organisation, because they commit terror attacks.
However, they are also democratically elected, and this bestows upon them a certain legitimacy.
Rather than just kill 'em all, as a few posters here want to do, I'd like to see them convinced that peace offered more to them than war. This seemed to work with Sinn Fein, and I think it can work again. It's a carrot and stick approach.
RetiredGySgt,
You state:
Hamas controls the Government, they openly call for the destruction of Israel, they ship in tons of armaments by any means possible. They openly set up their launchers in school yards, Hospitals and the roofs of Apartment buildings.
Of the two groups ONLY ONE calls for the death and destruction of the other. And it is not Israel that makes that call. It is not Israel that has as its charter the demand that a Sovereign Nation be destroyed and all its peoples murdered. It is not Israel that tries to achieve that goal by any means possible.
Only one of the two groups sends suicide bombers to blow up women and children in Pizza parlors. Only one of the two groups purposefully targets schools and day care centers for rocket mortar and missile attacks. Only one of the groups sends handicapped children strapped with bombs to do their killing.
My response:
Hamas has a right to resist the Occupation with armed resistance under intl law. People fighting use fighting words, so what individuals might say about what they would like as they are fighting is not particularly important, in addition what I find is words are often misstated and mistranslated. Gaza is a very densely populated area, so the fact some arms may be fired close to civilians is not surprising. I think typically weapons are fired from fields and open spaces, not civilian objects. Amnesty carried out an extensive investigation of Cast Lead, and found little or no evidence to support what you are alleging happened. Schools were widely bombed, NGO workers denied any military operations were being carried out from those schools and shelters and hospitals that were extensively bombed. So, much of what you say is simply untrue , propaganda, in your first paragraph.
Second paragraph, what is important is actions and who is destroying whom, and what we see is Israel is stealing land and ethnically cleansing Palestine and killing Palestinians.
Third paragraph, suicide bombings are a thing of the past, and were themselves a response to targeted assassinations, an unlawful practice Israel still carries out, where they target a person not engaged in the hostilities when targeted, in their homes with their families there. In the Lebanon War, an Iranian cleric, not even a militant and fighter, was targeted in his home, and he was killed with his 12 children, ages 1 to 18. The last person killed in a suicide bombing was a woman killed in Diamona about 5 years ago. Only Israel is targeting schools and day care centers, the rockets are so unsophisrticated they cannot be aimed at a target, they are war crimes because they are indiscriminate attacks into civilain areas, but they do not constitute deliberate targeting of schools. So, there are no suicide bombings occurring and the only one targeting schools and day care centers is Israel.
Sherri
[/quote]Imbecile, if that "logic" is applied then israel can kill every pal arab muslim. At least pretend you have a brain and think before writing.
If I was Jewish, you wouldn't catch me in Israel for all the shekels in Tel Aviv. The whole area is a war zone, only fools purposely raise a family in a war zone when there are other options that are safer and better for your children.
You are so ignorant it's amazing! Not even East Jersulem is a war zone. I have been to all parts of Israel including the West Bank. In Tel Aviv you would think you are in any European modernized city. In Jerusalem your walk freely through the streets of an ancient city without fear of anything. Even in East Jerusalem the people their are very friendily (although they see Americans like all foreigners - as $$$$$$$). Israel has some of the best beaches in the world. Even on the West Bank you don't feal nervous, even when you see alot of Arabs walking by. Most of the time the Arabs and the Jewish settlers are working together. Little known fact: Most of the buildings in the Jewish cities in the West Bank were made with Arab labor!
Check the homicide stats! Lowest in the world!
[quotehttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/IsraelsMurderRate.html
According to a study conducted by the University of Haifas Center for the Study of Crime, Law & Society, Israels murder rate is one of the worlds lowest, which shows the murder rate in Israel is declining. The murder rate per 100,000 residents has remained virtually unchanged over the past 28 years, and has declined during the past few years. The study says that the crime rates have to be examined in relation to the population size. From this perspective, the research shows that the number of murders per 100,000 people was 2.35 in 1980 and 2.29 in 2006. This data is low compared to other countries. For instance, in Russia, the number of murders per 100,000 people was 18 in 2004, and in the United States, the number of murders per 100,000 people was 7.5 during the same year.
Sherri -
I do consider Hamas as a terrorist organisation, because they commit terror attacks.
However, they are also democratically elected, and this bestows upon them a certain legitimacy.
Rather than just kill 'em all, as a few posters here want to do, I'd like to see them convinced that peace offered more to them than war. This seemed to work with Sinn Fein, and I think it can work again. It's a carrot and stick approach.
Saigon,
I see Hamas and the Israeli government as very much alike, they are like each other, they choose fighting as a way to resolve matters, and they, at times, both unlawfully target civilians, they both at times choose to engage in terrorism.
I do not support anyone's killings, whether it be lawful or unlawful (ie terrorism). I support each side talking to one another, I support Diplomacy.
I mostly agree with what you are saying, too.
But what you leave out is the fact that the Occupation is the primary event that keeps the fighting going. East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza are essentially what is left of what was set aside for a Palestinian State by the UN, the people have a right of self determination to have a state in those lands, a state free of Israeli Occupation, that is pretty clearly established by the intl legal authorities such as the International Court of Justice, either that scenario or Israel gives them equal rights iin one democratic state
(this latter option also effectively gives them their rights of self dtermination, because they become part of a democratic system, like all other residents).
Those Occupied always are oppressed, and the natural tendency is for an occupied people to resist their Occupations.
When we look right now at all of Israel and Palestine, the demographics are interesting, we have about 7 million Jews, 5.5 million Palestinians, and the birth rate of Palestinians has historically always been very high. And we today have both a Jewish and Palestinian population outside Palestine greater in numbers than those inside Palestine.
I also find myself thinking now about what happened in 70 AD, when a people in another time chose fighting, and how all that turned out.
I just started posting here, I do not know if you have been discussing the Palestinian political prisoners/hunger strikers. we are seeing militants more and more choose nonviolence, that is a positive development and this may change everything.
There is a Palestinian football player on a hunger strike right now, 80+ days on his hunger strike, likely on the verge of death, held for over 3 years as an enemy combatant, never charged with any crimes, not allowed visits with his family in Gaza. One cannot help but admire a man choosing such a road to take, I do not even think he is a Christian, but I have never encountered any person who looks more like Jesus.
Nonviolent self sacrifice as a response to Injustice, I think there is power in that, power to change the course of History.
Sherri
Those Occupied always are oppressed, and the natural tendency is for an occupied people to resist their Occupations.
RetiredGySgt,
You state:
Hamas controls the Government, they openly call for the destruction of Israel, they ship in tons of armaments by any means possible. They openly set up their launchers in school yards, Hospitals and the roofs of Apartment buildings.
Of the two groups ONLY ONE calls for the death and destruction of the other. And it is not Israel that makes that call. It is not Israel that has as its charter the demand that a Sovereign Nation be destroyed and all its peoples murdered. It is not Israel that tries to achieve that goal by any means possible.
Only one of the two groups sends suicide bombers to blow up women and children in Pizza parlors. Only one of the two groups purposefully targets schools and day care centers for rocket mortar and missile attacks. Only one of the groups sends handicapped children strapped with bombs to do their killing.
My response:
Hamas has a right to resist the Occupation with armed resistance under intl law. People fighting use fighting words, so what individuals might say about what they would like as they are fighting is not particularly important, in addition what I find is words are often misstated and mistranslated. Gaza is a very densely populated area, so the fact some arms may be fired close to civilians is not surprising. I think typically weapons are fired from fields and open spaces, not civilian objects. Amnesty carried out an extensive investigation of Cast Lead, and found little or no evidence to support what you are alleging happened. Schools were widely bombed, NGO workers denied any military operations were being carried out from those schools and shelters and hospitals that were extensively bombed. So, much of what you say is simply untrue , propaganda, in your first paragraph.
Second paragraph, what is important is actions and who is destroying whom, and what we see is Israel is stealing land and ethnically cleansing Palestine and killing Palestinians.
Third paragraph, suicide bombings are a thing of the past, and were themselves a response to targeted assassinations, an unlawful practice Israel still carries out, where they target a person not engaged in the hostilities when targeted, in their homes with their families there. In the Lebanon War, an Iranian cleric, not even a militant and fighter, was targeted in his home, and he was killed with his 12 children, ages 1 to 18. The last person killed in a suicide bombing was a woman killed in Diamona about 5 years ago. Only Israel is targeting schools and day care centers, the rockets are so unsophisrticated they cannot be aimed at a target, they are war crimes because they are indiscriminate attacks into civilain areas, but they do not constitute deliberate targeting of schools. So, there are no suicide bombings occurring and the only one targeting schools and day care centers is Israel.
Sherri
i find it incredibly unfair, that people think, that since Palestinians are under occupation, Hamas can do whatever they like with innocent people's lives.
First of all, the word "occupation" concerning Gaza is pure propaganda. There is no occupation in Gaza. There is a blockade. But Gaza is not occupied, there is no occupying IDF soldier inside the strip cities, and there are no "settlers"
So Hamas does not respond to any "occupation" in Gaza.
That's first.
Second, Hamas targets women and children. They have no "right" to do that, anymore than Israel does. If "resisting" the siege is legal, so does RESPONDING to the terror attack Hamas brings forth on south Israel (The siege is a response to terror from the strip. Any more of it won't make things better).
Or is it possible that people would think that they can launch rockets without response? that is for the fools and naives.
There is no occupation in Gaza.
If I was Jewish, you wouldn't catch me in Israel for all the shekels in Tel Aviv. The whole area is a war zone, only fools purposely raise a family in a war zone when there are other options that are safer and better for your children.
You are so ignorant it's amazing! Not even East Jersulem is a war zone. I have been to all parts of Israel including the West Bank. In Tel Aviv you would think you are in any European modernized city. In Jerusalem your walk freely through the streets of an ancient city without fear of anything. Even in East Jerusalem the people their are very friendily (although they see Americans like all foreigners - as $$$$$$$). Israel has some of the best beaches in the world. Even on the West Bank you don't feal nervous, even when you see alot of Arabs walking by. Most of the time the Arabs and the Jewish settlers are working together. Little known fact: Most of the buildings in the Jewish cities in the West Bank were made with Arab labor!
Check the homicide stats! Lowest in the world!
[quotehttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/IsraelsMurderRate.html
According to a study conducted by the University of Haifas Center for the Study of Crime, Law & Society, Israels murder rate is one of the worlds lowest, which shows the murder rate in Israel is declining. The murder rate per 100,000 residents has remained virtually unchanged over the past 28 years, and has declined during the past few years. The study says that the crime rates have to be examined in relation to the population size. From this perspective, the research shows that the number of murders per 100,000 people was 2.35 in 1980 and 2.29 in 2006. This data is low compared to other countries. For instance, in Russia, the number of murders per 100,000 people was 18 in 2004, and in the United States, the number of murders per 100,000 people was 7.5 during the same year.
Saigon,
Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by about 4 nations in the world, the EU is not a nation. The rest of the world does not call Hamas a terrorist organization. I see them as human beings. When Israel targets and kills and injures civilians, they act as a Terrorist State. I do not really have much use for the terrorist label. The US is involved in many terrorist attacks, too. We are always hearing about civilians they bomb and kill.
It is kind of funny, about the US, we become terrorists to fight terrorism. That is pathetic, actually, not really funny at all, but there is a lot of irony in all of that.
Sherri
You agreeing with Hamas makes you a terrorist sympathizer. Yet you say you're against terrorism.
Or is Palestinian terrorism not "terrorism"? You're not being completely fair, and your claims are very hypocritical.
Hamas targets and terrorize Israeli children. Ignoring that is ignoring the situation completely, you cannot expect fair complete view when you're not completely honest with yourself.
Hamas should be destroyed.
Saigon,
Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by about 4 nations in the world, the EU is not a nation. The rest of the world does not call Hamas a terrorist organization. I see them as human beings. When Israel targets and kills and injures civilians, they act as a Terrorist State. I do not really have much use for the terrorist label. The US is involved in many terrorist attacks, too. We are always hearing about civilians they bomb and kill.
It is kind of funny, about the US, we become terrorists to fight terrorism. That is pathetic, actually, not really funny at all, but there is a lot of irony in all of that.
Sherri
You agreeing with Hamas makes you a terrorist sympathizer. Yet you say you're against terrorism.
Or is Palestinian terrorism not "terrorism"? You're not being completely fair, and your claims are very hypocritical.
Hamas targets and terrorize Israeli children. Ignoring that is ignoring the situation completely, you cannot expect fair complete view when you're not completely honest with yourself.
Hamas should be destroyed.
Lipush,
This has nothing to do with Hamas or agreeing with Hamas (the doctor's findings about stunted growth had nothing to do with Hamas, nor do UNICEF's findings about the condition of children in Gaza have anything to do with Hamas), Israel occupies Gaza, they have an obligation owed to the civilian population under the Fourth Geneva Convention, that prevents them from deliberately starving babies, that prevents them from deliberately causing Malnutrition in children and stunted growth in children. Israel still enforces a siege against Gaza, they destroyed their airport years ago, they shoot fishermen if they go beyond even a short way from their shores to fish, they prevent human aid groups from bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza by ship, they have attacked and destroyed infrastructure over and over, infrastructure, like water faciliries, like electric power plants.
I am not reading of children being killed by Hamas, am I missing a news report? I do not think so. I cannot ignore something that is not happening.
I know we have rockets launched into Israel by militants, that sometimes includes persons associated with Hamas. But mostly they fall into empty fields, and the threats posed are so small that I was recently reading of a growth surge in Sderot, Israelis are moving there in increasing numbers. In teh 10 years rockets have been launched, they have only killed about two dozen Isrealis, in taht same time period Isreal has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians in her terror attacks against civilians.
Terrorism is terrorism, it is bad whether it is carried out by militants or Israel.
But children should never be made to pay for acts of terrorism of anyone, Terrorism does not justify Israel in starving children in Gaza.
Sherri
Sderot might not have been rocket destination in the passing years, but faraway cities have been.
And you cannot say in that rude baseless tone that "there is no danger" from those rockets.
You're not a southerner so you don't know.
GAZA, (PIC)-- Israeli occupation forces (IOF) advanced 500 meters into south east of Gaza city on Monday afternoon amidst heavy firing, local sources said.
They told Quds Press that four armored vehicles and five bulldozers infiltrated into an area east of Juhr Al-Deek and leveled vast tracts of cultivated land while shooting in all directions.
IOF troops bulldoze land inside Gaza Strip
You agreeing with Hamas makes you a terrorist sympathizer. Yet you say you're against terrorism.
Or is Palestinian terrorism not "terrorism"? You're not being completely fair, and your claims are very hypocritical.
Hamas targets and terrorize Israeli children. Ignoring that is ignoring the situation completely, you cannot expect fair complete view when you're not completely honest with yourself.
Hamas should be destroyed.
Lipush,
One killing a year ago, that I already took into account when I admitted there had been deaths from the rockets, does not take us to Hamas presently attacking
This has nothing to do with Hamas or agreeing with Hamas (the doctor's findings about stunted growth had nothing to do with Hamas, nor do UNICEF's findings about the condition of children in Gaza have anything to do with Hamas), Israel occupies Gaza, they have an obligation owed to the civilian population under the Fourth Geneva Convention, that prevents them from deliberately starving babies, that prevents them from deliberately causing Malnutrition in children and stunted growth in children. Israel still enforces a siege against Gaza, they destroyed their airport years ago, they shoot fishermen if they go beyond even a short way from their shores to fish, they prevent human aid groups from bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza by ship, they have attacked and destroyed infrastructure over and over, infrastructure, like water faciliries, like electric power plants.
I am not reading of children being killed by Hamas, am I missing a news report? I do not think so. I cannot ignore something that is not happening.
I know we have rockets launched into Israel by militants, that sometimes includes persons associated with Hamas. But mostly they fall into empty fields, and the threats posed are so small that I was recently reading of a growth surge in Sderot, Israelis are moving there in increasing numbers. In teh 10 years rockets have been launched, they have only killed about two dozen Isrealis, in taht same time period Isreal has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians in her terror attacks against civilians.
Terrorism is terrorism, it is bad whether it is carried out by militants or Israel.
But children should never be made to pay for acts of terrorism of anyone, Terrorism does not justify Israel in starving children in Gaza.
Sherri
You say no children have been killed by Hamas?
Should I give you an example?
Hamas school bus attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Or earlier?
Collective Punishment - the Qassam victims of Sderot
And ISRAEL IS NOT STARVING CHILDREN IN GAZA.
That's pure propaganda lies.
Electronic Inti-Farta?
Every third child in Gaza stunted by hunger": interview with renowned doctor Mads Gilbert
SK: What is the healthcare situation in the Gaza Strip like now?
MG: As a result of the Israeli siege, there has been widespread development of anemia among children and women due to malnutrition as a result of siege and poverty. Stunting, where a child is more than two standard deviations shorter than what it should be, is sharply on the rise. In 2006, around 13.5 percent of children were stunted. In 2009, 31.4 percent under age two were stunted.
In other words, every third child is less developed than he or she should be. And stunting does not only affect growth. It also affects brain development and the ability to learn. This is a direct consequence of malnutrition. Remember, this is not caused by drought or natural disasters, but a deliberate, man-made lack of food and water, imposed, planned, and executed in the most detailed way by the Israeli government. They even calculate how many calories to let in to Gaza to avoid outright starvation but to just cause malnutrition since that goes under the radar of human rights abuses
This article is reported on Electronic Intifada website
Every third child in Gaza stunted by hunger": interview with renowned doctor Mads Gilbert
SK: What is the healthcare situation in the Gaza Strip like now?
MG: As a result of the Israeli siege, there has been widespread development of anemia among children and women due to malnutrition as a result of siege and poverty. Stunting, where a child is more than two standard deviations shorter than what it should be, is sharply on the rise. In 2006, around 13.5 percent of children were stunted. In 2009, 31.4 percent under age two were stunted.
In other words, every third child is less developed than he or she should be. And stunting does not only affect growth. It also affects brain development and the ability to learn. This is a direct consequence of malnutrition. Remember, this is not caused by drought or natural disasters, but a deliberate, man-made lack of food and water, imposed, planned, and executed in the most detailed way by the Israeli government. They even calculate how many calories to let in to Gaza to avoid outright starvation but to just cause malnutrition since that goes under the radar of human rights abuses
This article is reported on Electronic Intifada website
Hmmm. It's that age old governmental quandry: guns or butter.
And perhaps you could do better than the camel crap you find at Electronic Intifada.
Lipush,
One killing a year ago, that I already took into account when I admitted there had been deaths from the rockets, does not take us to Hamas presently attacking
This has nothing to do with Hamas or agreeing with Hamas (the doctor's findings about stunted growth had nothing to do with Hamas, nor do UNICEF's findings about the condition of children in Gaza have anything to do with Hamas), Israel occupies Gaza, they have an obligation owed to the civilian population under the Fourth Geneva Convention, that prevents them from deliberately starving babies, that prevents them from deliberately causing Malnutrition in children and stunted growth in children. Israel still enforces a siege against Gaza, they destroyed their airport years ago, they shoot fishermen if they go beyond even a short way from their shores to fish, they prevent human aid groups from bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza by ship, they have attacked and destroyed infrastructure over and over, infrastructure, like water faciliries, like electric power plants.
I am not reading of children being killed by Hamas, am I missing a news report? I do not think so. I cannot ignore something that is not happening.
I know we have rockets launched into Israel by militants, that sometimes includes persons associated with Hamas. But mostly they fall into empty fields, and the threats posed are so small that I was recently reading of a growth surge in Sderot, Israelis are moving there in increasing numbers. In teh 10 years rockets have been launched, they have only killed about two dozen Isrealis, in taht same time period Isreal has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians in her terror attacks against civilians.
Terrorism is terrorism, it is bad whether it is carried out by militants or Israel.
But children should never be made to pay for acts of terrorism of anyone, Terrorism does not justify Israel in starving children in Gaza.
Sherri
You say no children have been killed by Hamas?
Should I give you an example?
Hamas school bus attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Or earlier?
Collective Punishment - the Qassam victims of Sderot
And ISRAEL IS NOT STARVING CHILDREN IN GAZA.
That's pure propaganda lies.
Lipush,
One attack and one killing by Hamas a year ago does not take us to Hamas presently targeting children. Israel targeted and killed 344 children in one military operation, alone, that was Cast Lead. And each child who was killed is named and we are told how old they were when Israeli Forces killed them, and we are told how they died, on Btselem.
You call the deaths from rockets terrorism, OK, fine, so were the deaths of those 344 children killed by the IDF in Cast Lead, each one a victim of Israeli terrorism.
If Hamas is so evil they must be destroyed, by that very same reasoning, the Israeli Apartheid Regime, which embraces State Terrorism, also must be destroyed.
I do want to clarify something, I do not believe that, what I wrote in that last paragraph, I do not desire the destruction of either party named, my point is simply that if terrorism justifies destruction, that very same reasoning tells us states that embrace terrorism must be destroyed, too.
And while I do not agree with that, anyone's destruction, I think we all should be able to step back and agree the killings of the civilians on both sides is wrong and there is nothing good or moral about any of these killings, and acts that cause children to suffer malnutrition and stunted growth are also wrong.
It would be so easy for Isreal to just end her unlawful Occupation of East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza and abide by international law.
The Occupation is why there is violence.
Sherri