Even Wall Street thinks this tax bill is a loser

Discussion in 'Politics' started by The Derp, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. hadit
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    hadit Gold Member

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    So? It's still a self soothing exercise for Hillary partisans who cannot accept the reality that she was defeated by someone they cannot accept as being competent to tie his own shoes, much less able to prevent her from ascending to her birthright throne.
     
  2. The Derp
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    The Derp Silver Member

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    The reality is that Donald Trump lost the popular vote.
     
  3. hadit
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    hadit Gold Member

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    Hold on to that. I hear it helps when the voices get too loud. In the mean time, Hillary still can't get into the White House without a visitor pass.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. The Derp
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    The Derp Silver Member

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    For someone supposedly irrelevant, you all sure seem to talk about Clinton an awful lot. It's like you're obsessed with her.
     
  5. Toddsterpatriot
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    Toddsterpatriot Platinum Member

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    You can't prove that the increase in revenues had anything to do with the capital gains tax cut

    Previous cuts in capital gains rates gave the government higher revenues.
    Previous hikes in capital gains rates gave the government lower revenues.

    Who claimed the only source of growth comes from a steady or shrinking savings rate of the rich?
    No one claimed that.


    I accept your surrender.
    Increasing a savings rate doesn't translate into increased economic activity. In fact, it translates to decreased economic activity because, as the link I provided to you said, the savings rate shot up.


    Thanks for explaining why China has such a high growth rate.....
    their high savings rate is decreasing economic activity. What?

    People didn't have more money in their pockets because personal debt skyrocketed during Reagan.

    People had more money in their pockets because the government took less money out of their pockets. Moron.
    The tax cut resulted in a decline in economic activity,


    upload_2017-12-7_10-25-7.png

    Fucking moron.
     

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  6. hadit
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    hadit Gold Member

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    You guys keep yammering about her winning the Miss Congeniality award. Then we point out how meaningless that is and WE are obsessed?
     
  7. The Derp
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    The Derp Silver Member

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    You cannot prove that. You haven't been able to and you never will. You think your theory represents proof, but it doesn't. Cutting the capital gains taxes creates volatility in the marketplace which results in a market collapse. We know because we lived through it 17 years ago.


    So this is you redefining the parameters. Your argument was that cutting taxes for the wealthy would translate to increased economic activity by way of trickle down so that the tax cut pays for itself. That's not true, but you're holding onto that point as if it is even though there is no data to support it, and the data we do have shows the wealthy increased savings, which resulted in less spending.




    China is currently employing an economic stimulus, did you know that? I doubt it because you don't know anything. That's why they have growth...government spending. But it should be noted that their growth is slowing as the stimulus winds down.


    Nope. Untrue. Personal savings declined post-tax cut and household debt increased. That meant consumers had less money in their pockets because they went into greater debt. More money in the pockets of consumers would have meant the household debt amounts should have declined. But the opposite happened. Consumers went into debt because they didn't get more money in their pockets.

    [​IMG]



    So what happened in 1982? Oh right, Reagan raised taxes. And look at that...he raised taxes in 1982, they went into effect in 1983, and immediately, the economy started growing again.
     
  8. The Derp
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    The Derp Silver Member

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    No, you're building a straw man argument.
     
  9. Toddsterpatriot
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    Toddsterpatriot Platinum Member

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    Previous cuts in capital gains rates gave the government higher revenues. Previous hikes in capital gains rates gave the government lower revenues.

    You cannot prove that.

    I can.

    So this is you redefining the parameters. Your argument was that cutting taxes for the wealthy would translate to increased economic activity by way of trickle down

    I didn't use any claim of "trickle down", whatever that is.

    China is currently employing an economic stimulus, did you know that? I doubt it because you don't know anything. That's why they have growth...government spending.

    How does their government spending compare to ours?

    upload_2017-12-7_14-51-57.png

    Chart: Just how much does China save vs rest of the world?

    People had more money in their pockets because the government took less money out of their pockets. Moron.


    Nope. Untrue. Personal savings declined post-tax cut and household debt increased.
    1)Reagan cut taxes.​
    2)Government has less money​
    3)People have more money in their pocket​
    4)???​
    5)???​
    You'll have to fill in 4) and 5), because after the first 3 steps, people had more money in their pockets.​
     
  10. The Derp
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    The Derp Silver Member

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    Yet you don't. Because it's hypothetical.


    You said that the wealthy would generate economic activity from their tax cut to pay for the tax cut. That is your position. How do the wealthy do that if not by trickling down?


    Theirs is direct stimulus spending. Which they've been doing. So you didn't even bother to address that point. China's savings rate is higher than ours, and you pondered how that could fit with their high growth rate (indicative of spending). And I gave you the answer as to how: government stimulus.

    That's how China's economy grows today...stimulus spending by the government as personal savings increase. The Chinese government recognizes that a high savings rate sucks up demand in the economy, so to fill that demand deficit, the government does a stimulus. As the stimulus spending winds down, as it has this year, China's economy predictably slows down too. It was in the link I gave you that you obviously didn't read because you're intellectually lazy af.



    Wow dude...you just admitted here that tax cuts create deficits by reducing the amount of money the government has. This is in direct contradiction to what you've been saying in nearly every thread on this topic that tax cuts don't cause deficits. Apparently, they do...you just didn't realize you admitted it.
    1) Reagan cut taxes, which resulted in...
    2) ...government has less money <---- SO YOU'RE ADMITTING HERE THAT TAX CUTS CREATE DEFICITS!!!! LOL!!!!
    3) Government cuts spending on programs like SNAP, Medicaid, Pell Grants & FAFSA, Low-Income Energy Assistance, Section 8 housing, and the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act (CETA).
    4) Government spending cuts increase out-of-pocket expenses; cutting Pell Grants and FAFSA means students have to pay higher tuition and borrow at higher rates; cutting Medicaid means patients have to pay higher co-pays and coinsurance and prescription drug costs; cutting low-income energy assistance means consumers have to pay higher energy costs. So that means...
    5) ...consumers go into debt to pay for health care, college, job training, energy, etc.

    That's why household debt always skyrockets after tax cuts. Always.

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017

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