European Union Bans Display of Crucifix in Europe's schools, including Rome

[Shogun]

What specific religion does a cross or the 10 commandments refer to?
How does displaying them make them a state sponsored/sanctioned religion?

It may recognize that a relgion that worships the cross or likes the 10 commanments is prevelant in society but I dont see how displaying it is forcing people to follow that religion.

My oil is overfilled, check your stick again.

Are you seriously asking what specific religion is refered to by the ten commandments and a cross? do you ask the same about sponsorship when trying to figure out the paintjobs on Nascar vehicles? Official validation is the point.

So its the official symbol of the Mormon faith then, I get it.

Or is it the catholics?

Or is it the christians?

Or is it the episcipalians (are they christians?)

Which specific relgion uses the cross....because if its more than one there is NO WAY you can claim displaying a cross is sanctioning one specific religion.

So which religion does the cross only represent
How does displaying it sanction and force the populus to believe it?

mormons, catholics episcipalians, etc., are all denominations of christianity. Every one of them are branches from the same core religion. Every single one of them.

Now, name a single religion that is not, at it's core, a CHRISTian religion that reveres a cross.

Indeed, it's kinda retarded that you'd even assume that naming various CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS would indicate that the cross is, somehow, not specifically associated with CHRISTIANITY.

 

[Colin]

...yet when the Swiss decide to ban crescent moons.....


I wonder how many people switch feet all of a sudden.

thats messed up too. WTF is wrong with letting people express their religious beliefs over there in euroland?

They are allowed to express their religious beliefs! Haven't you noticed. We actually have churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of all sorts. Perhaps if you feel so strongly, you should turn your attention to those countries who do not permit religious freedom.

Admit it Plymco. You boobed by railing against a European ruling that already applied to your own country.

Incidentally, two muslim countries, Turkey and Tunisia have laws that prohibit the wearing of the hijab in government buildings, schools, and universities. The Turkish government recently attempted to lift a ban on Muslim headscarves at universities, but were overturned by the country's Constitutional Court.

No such laws exist in Europe. Yes. Damn those Europeans for not allowing religious freedom!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Are you seriously asking what specific religion is refered to by the ten commandments and a cross? do you ask the same about sponsorship when trying to figure out the paintjobs on Nascar vehicles? Official validation is the point.

So its the official symbol of the Mormon faith then, I get it.

Or is it the catholics?

Or is it the christians?

Or is it the episcipalians (are they christians?)

Which specific relgion uses the cross....because if its more than one there is NO WAY you can claim displaying a cross is sanctioning one specific religion.

So which religion does the cross only represent
How does displaying it sanction and force the populus to believe it?

mormons, catholics episcipalians, etc., are all denominations of christianity. Every one of them are branches from the same core religion. Every single one of them.

Now, name a single religion that is not, at it's core, a CHRISTian religion that reveres a cross.

Indeed, it's kinda retarded that you'd even assume that naming various CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS would indicate that the cross is, somehow, not specifically associated with CHRISTIANITY.

So the cross identifies christians but not catholics? Which specific religion is displaying the cross endorsing again?

You have failed to show how displaying a cross, minora, or star and crescen in a public place is "making a law respecting an establishment of religion"

However I can tell you that denying anyone, especially through law, the right to display any religious symbol in a public place is a clear and blatant violation of the 1st ammendment.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

...yet when the Swiss decide to ban crescent moons.....


I wonder how many people switch feet all of a sudden.

thats messed up too. WTF is wrong with letting people express their religious beliefs over there in euroland?

They are allowed to express their religious beliefs! Haven't you noticed. We actually have churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of all sorts. Perhaps if you feel so strongly, you should turn your attention to those countries who do not permit religious freedom.

Admit it Plymco. You boobed by railing against a European ruling that already applied to your own country.

Incidentally, two muslim countries, Turkey and Tunisia have laws that prohibit the wearing of the hijab in government buildings, schools, and universities. The Turkish government recently attempted to lift a ban on Muslim headscarves at universities, but were overturned by the country's Constitutional Court.

No such laws exist in Europe. Yes. Damn those Europeans for not allowing religious freedom!

They haven't passed them yet but they got their foot in the door now banning the cross and the crescent. That could be next I think people should stand up for the right of religious expression of all religious groups.

I didn't boob at all, you just failed.

 

[Colin]

thats messed up too. WTF is wrong with letting people express their religious beliefs over there in euroland?

They are allowed to express their religious beliefs! Haven't you noticed. We actually have churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of all sorts. Perhaps if you feel so strongly, you should turn your attention to those countries who do not permit religious freedom.

Admit it Plymco. You boobed by railing against a European ruling that already applied to your own country.

Incidentally, two muslim countries, Turkey and Tunisia have laws that prohibit the wearing of the hijab in government buildings, schools, and universities. The Turkish government recently attempted to lift a ban on Muslim headscarves at universities, but were overturned by the country's Constitutional Court.

No such laws exist in Europe. Yes. Damn those Europeans for not allowing religious freedom!

They haven't passed them yet but they got their foot in the door now banning the cross and the crescent. That could be next I think people should stand up for the right of religious expression of all religious groups.

I didn't boob at all, you just failed.

Failed. Really! Care to explain how? Funny how you are getting bent out of shape over something only affecting schools in a foreign country. Afraid your ignorance of events outside your little patch is showing.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

They are allowed to express their religious beliefs! Haven't you noticed. We actually have churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of all sorts. Perhaps if you feel so strongly, you should turn your attention to those countries who do not permit religious freedom.

Admit it Plymco. You boobed by railing against a European ruling that already applied to your own country.

Incidentally, two muslim countries, Turkey and Tunisia have laws that prohibit the wearing of the hijab in government buildings, schools, and universities. The Turkish government recently attempted to lift a ban on Muslim headscarves at universities, but were overturned by the country's Constitutional Court.

No such laws exist in Europe. Yes. Damn those Europeans for not allowing religious freedom!

They haven't passed them yet but they got their foot in the door now banning the cross and the crescent. That could be next I think people should stand up for the right of religious expression of all religious groups.

I didn't boob at all, you just failed.

Failed. Really! Care to explain how? Funny how you are getting bent out of shape over something only affecting schools in a foreign country. Afraid your ignorance of events outside your little patch is showing.

Wow you fail again. I take it you assume I didn't know it was only in europe even though I clearly stated it in the thread title and op.

YOU FAIL BADLY!!!! this link is just for you YouFail.org - You fail life and everything

 

[Colin]

They haven't passed them yet but they got their foot in the door now banning the cross and the crescent. That could be next I think people should stand up for the right of religious expression of all religious groups.

I didn't boob at all, you just failed.

Failed. Really! Care to explain how? Funny how you are getting bent out of shape over something only affecting schools in a foreign country. Afraid your ignorance of events outside your little patch is showing.

Wow you fail again. I take it you assume I didn't know it was only in europe even though I clearly stated it in the thread title and op.

YOU FAIL BADLY!!!! this link is just for you YouFail.org - You fail life and everything

I think not dear boy. The thread clearly illustrates your shortcomings on this subject.

 

[Anguille]

PLYMCO_PILGRIM is playing dumb.





I hope!

 

[Shogun]

So its the official symbol of the Mormon faith then, I get it.

Or is it the catholics?

Or is it the christians?

Or is it the episcipalians (are they christians?)

Which specific relgion uses the cross....because if its more than one there is NO WAY you can claim displaying a cross is sanctioning one specific religion.

So which religion does the cross only represent
How does displaying it sanction and force the populus to believe it?

mormons, catholics episcipalians, etc., are all denominations of christianity. Every one of them are branches from the same core religion. Every single one of them.

Now, name a single religion that is not, at it's core, a CHRISTian religion that reveres a cross.

Indeed, it's kinda retarded that you'd even assume that naming various CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS would indicate that the cross is, somehow, not specifically associated with CHRISTIANITY.

So the cross identifies christians but not catholics? Which specific religion is displaying the cross endorsing again?

You have failed to show how displaying a cross, minora, or star and crescen in a public place is "making a law respecting an establishment of religion"

However I can tell you that denying anyone, especially through law, the right to display any religious symbol in a public place is a clear and blatant violation of the 1st ammendment.

que? I said, specifically, that catholocism is a branch of christianity. I even bolded it above.

and, i'm not the one who is confused about the concept of endorsement, yo. Perhaps you should curl up with a nice cup of cocoa and a dictionary. But, don't watch nascar or any other sponsor-based activity; reality is harsh.

Claiming expression via common property is the question at hand; no one rips dainty little crosses off of the necks of christians in public schools. However, personal expression under the first amendment doesn't allow anyone to commandeer public property. You don't have the right to decide what to display at your local school. end of story. No first amendment strawman necessary.

Now, did you want to get back to listing all of the religions BESIDES christianity and it's variations which revere the cross or are you done dancing?

 

[Anguille]

que? I said, specifically, that catholocism is a branch of christianity. I even bolded it above.

and, i'm not the one who is confused about the concept of endorsement, yo. Perhaps you should curl up with a nice cup of cocoa and a dictionary. But, don't watch nascar or any other sponsor-based activity; reality is harsh.

Claiming expression via common property is the question at hand; no one rips dainty little crosses off of the necks of christians in public schools. However, personal expression under the first amendment doesn't allow anyone to commandeer public property. You don't have the right to decide what to display at your local school. end of story. No first amendment strawman necessary.

Now, did you want to get back to listing all of the religions BESIDES christianity and it's variations which revere the cross or are you done dancing?

Why are you arguing with a Plymouth Pilgrim?
They were Puritans, They were all about religious intolerance and forcing their own brand of Christianity on others everywhere and anywhere. They were worse than the English who ran them out of England.

 

[dilloduck]

I think the argument is that institutions funded with public taxdollars displaying religious symbols is a form of implied sanctioning. And it's pretty disengenuous to argue that it isn't. The only bit debatable is the relative magnitude.

I'm afraid it's about a poor of an argument as claiming that a violent movie will make you want to kill someone. Are people so weak minded that the mere sight of a religious symbol will corrupt them ?

How would like your kid going to a public school that had muslim symbols displayed everywhere, but nothing Christian?

I went to school on Okinawa. Images of Buddha. No Problemo.
We still skipped class, smoked dope and swore like sailors. Check with some that have attended catholic schools and see how that drove them deep into the bowels of religion.
Is a school with no religious symbols endorsing atheism ?

 

[MajikMyst]

Well.. Pilgram.. You lost this one.. Better quit while your ahead..

As for the crucifix?? I have often wondered where the desire to have children look at a man nailed to a cross that was tortured and killed comes from.. Is the celebration of death something we should teach children??

 

[Anguille]

Perhaps crosses do not belong in science classrooms. In classrooms used to teach the social sciences, however, religion is relevant to the subject matter and the display of religious symbolism should be permitted as long as it doesn't amount to endorsement of a specific belief system.

As a teaching aid when teaching a class about the religions of the world, crosses and other religious items are useful and relevant to the subject matter. Otherwise they serve no useful purpose and should not be hung in public school classrooms.

 

[Anguille]

I'm afraid it's about a poor of an argument as claiming that a violent movie will make you want to kill someone. Are people so weak minded that the mere sight of a religious symbol will corrupt them ?

How would like your kid going to a public school that had muslim symbols displayed everywhere, but nothing Christian?

I went to school on Okinawa. Images of Buddha. No Problemo.
We still skipped class, smoked dope and swore like sailors. Check with some that have attended catholic schools and see how that drove them deep into the bowels of religion.
Is a school with no religious symbols endorsing atheism ?

Buddhism is a hippy religion therefore your pot smoking and other rebellious behaviors are directly related to your having had Buddha images displayed in your classrooms.

As far as kids who went to Catholic schools and got messed up by it, I can introduce you to several.

Lack of religious endorsement in schools is not an endorsement of lack of religion. If it's an endorsement of anything, it's an endorsement of secularism in schools.

 

[dilloduck]

How would like your kid going to a public school that had muslim symbols displayed everywhere, but nothing Christian?

I went to school on Okinawa. Images of Buddha. No Problemo.
We still skipped class, smoked dope and swore like sailors. Check with some that have attended catholic schools and see how that drove them deep into the bowels of religion.
Is a school with no religious symbols endorsing atheism ?

Buddhism is a hippy religion therefore your pot smoking and other rebellious behaviors are directly related to your having had Buddha images displayed in your classrooms.

As far as kids who went to Catholic schools and got messed up by it, I can introduce you to several.

Lack of religious endorsement in schools is not an endorsement of lack of religion. If it's an endorsement of anything, it's an endorsement of secularism in schools.

hippy religion far out man

 

[manifold]

PLYMCO_PILGRIM is playing dumb.





I hope!

And then some.

 

[JenyEliza]

Oh i know Manifold, I know. I found that whole situation stupid too, along with the 10 commandments business.

Whats next are we going to have to tear down the washington monument since is says "Praise Be to God" at the top of it (actually it says Laus Deo which is latin for praise be to god)

I mean serious all this hubbub about religious imagry and symbols not being allowed in public is such bullshit. Its right in our constitution that you are free to express any religion anywhere you want....the only restriction on religion is that the state can not sanction one SPECIFIC relgion as a state/federal relgion.

I think the argument is that institutions funded with public taxdollars displaying religious symbols is a form of implied sanctioning. And it's pretty disengenuous to argue that it isn't. The only bit debatable is the relative magnitude.

What specific religion does a cross or the 10 commandments refer to?
How does displaying them make them a state sponsored/sanctioned religion?

It may recognize that a relgion that worships the cross or likes the 10 commanments is prevelant in society but I dont see how displaying it is forcing people to follow that religion.

My oil is overfilled, check your stick again.

Why are men always checking their dipsticks?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Mormons, catholics Episcopalians, etc., are all denominations of Christianity. Every one of them are branches from the same core religion. Every single one of them.

Now, name a single religion that is not, at it's core, a Christian religion that reveres a cross.

Indeed, it's kinda retarded that you'd even assume that naming various CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS would indicate that the cross is, somehow, not specifically associated with CHRISTIANITY.

So the cross identifies Christians but not catholics? Which specific religion is displaying the cross endorsing again?

You have failed to show how displaying a cross, menorah, or star and crescent in a public place is "making a law respecting an establishment of religion"

However I can tell you that denying anyone, especially through law, the right to display any religious symbol in a public place is a clear and blatant violation of the 1st amendment.

que? I said, specifically, that catholocism is a branch of christianity. I even bolded it above.

and, i'm not the one who is confused about the concept of endorsement, yo. Perhaps you should curl up with a nice cup of cocoa and a dictionary. But, don't watch nascar or any other sponsor-based activity; reality is harsh.

Claiming expression via common property is the question at hand; no one rips dainty little crosses off of the necks of Christians in public schools. However, personal expression under the first amendment doesn't allow anyone to commandeer public property. You don't have the right to decide what to display at your local school. end of story. No first amendment strawman necessary.

Now, did you want to get back to listing all of the religions BESIDES Christianity and it's variations which revere the cross or are you done dancing?

And this is the exact reason that you can constitionally display a cross, menorah, and/or the star and crescent on public property and buildings. Read the language of the 1st ammendment again "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." By making it illegal to put a cross in a public building the government is making a prohibitive law in regards to a religious symbol.

Also, Christians and catholics belong to different church's and interpret the bible differently. But Anyway putting that aside let me be specific instead of trying to lead you down the path.

You can't claim a cross hanging in a public building is the state sponsoring one specific religion, as the cross covers a variety of different religious interpretations and teachings not just one specific form of Christianity, it covers all christianity and all catholicism.

Yes I was being purposefully obtuse before.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

P.S. I love the manner in which you guys who disagree responded, very entertaining.

 

[Anguille]

Also, Christians and catholics belong to different church's and interpret the bible differently. But Anyway putting that aside let me be specific instead of trying to lead you down the path.

You can't claim a cross hanging in a public building is the state sponsoring one specific religion, as the cross covers a variety of different religious interpretations and teachings not just one specific form of Christianity, it covers all christianity and all catholicism.

Yes I was being purposefully obtuse before.

Since when are Catholics not Christians?

Your argument that a cross does not represent one single religion but several is nonsense. Even so, the state is prohibited from endorsing not just one religion but any and all religions.