Europe Fights Back

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Annie, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    granted, weakly.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23070687-12377,00.html


     
  2. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    So is Vlaams Belang, problem is, the 'responsible folks' are not standing up. There is no where to turn.
     
  4. tigerbob
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    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

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    Maybe the "responsible folks" don't want to be associated with the type of people who are "weakly" standing up.

    And exactly what are they standing up to? The article isn't clear. Cities against Islamisation? I have no idea what that actually means. I know what they'd like me to think it means (Islam is spreading through Europe like a cancer and must be stopped before is has gone so far that everything we value will be lost forever). Sounds rather like what Hitler said about the Jews.

    The more people "stand up" with xenophobes like the BNP, the more moderate Muslims will be driven towards the extremes of Islam.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Then the responsible people need to recognize the difference between tolerance and appeasement. But that's not happening, is it?

    Europe is in serious problems and they officially refuse to recognize it. Appease all you wish, the Islamicists are burning cars now, maybe more later.
     
  6. tigerbob
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    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

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    Boy, people really throw the word appease around easily these days.

    Why is it that someone like me, who is unwilling to stand side by side with the British equivalent of the Klan, is the kind of person that you call an appeaser? How exactly is what I just said appeasement?
     
  7. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    There shouldn't be a reason for a person like you to stand with such. Bottom line, the good people in Europe should be demanding that their governments insist that immigrants and citizens adhere to the ideas that have made you all first world countries. It's time to say, 'we admire and allow for diversity, but not at the expense of our own identity. Not doing that, not yet.
     
  8. tigerbob
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    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

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    Ah! Somewhat more on your page now. Though I'm still not sure how a government can insist on this sort of thing and actually achieve it - battles for hearts and minds are rarely won by one side or the other insisting on something. Some form of compromise is what is generally needed. Compromise is not really a tactic that the likes of the BNP are too interested in.

    For them, it's more an all or nothing strategy. Realising that this is an issue that is high on the public agenda at present (and it is, whether you believe it or not), such parties use this kind of issue as part of a 'divide and conquer' strategy. The more anti-Muslim sentiment they can whip up, the more the public will be divided into 'them and us' camps. The more this happens, the more Muslims (and others) will be more receptive to radical messages.

    I have no problem with Muslim immigrants in Britain wanting to have Mosques to worship in. What I have a problem with is the manner in which some of these Mosques appear to be used - specifically for promoting extreme forms of Islam. The way to counter this, in my opinion, is by working with the moderates in such communities (who are the overwhelming majority) in such a way that extreme messages do not have any fertile groung in which to grow.

    What I also have a problem with is the ease with which immigrants can get into Britain, and the amount of time it takes to process those who should not be here and have them removed.

    Every country, I would contend, can benefit from immigration. If the pool of skills is insufficient among the existing population, why not encourage immigration among those who can provide these skills? At the moment however, it seems to be largely a free for all.

    Anyone who is a member of the EU has a right to work anywhere within the EU. This has meant that skilled workers from Eastern European countries have flooded into the UK, lured by the kind of wages they could never earn in their country of origin. However, along with them have come thousands of less useful people. Small wonder these days that prostitution, drug rings, money laundering and human trafficking in London are all dominated by gangs from the likes of Poland, Serbia, Albania, and others.

    That last bit was slightly off subject I know, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
     
  9. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    What does that mean? Muslims themselves do not seem very interested in opposing their more radical adherents. Within the Muslim community there is probably more tacit acceptance of radical goals than you want to believe. Regarding the integration of Muslims in Europe, what's going to happen when 80 million Turks join the EU?
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Government through leadership can make it as easy for those that wish to speak out to not be hit with the equivalent of our 'hate crimes' for words, whether spoken, drawn, or written. Stop the censorship of the opposing views, which we see happening often. Government can also apply those laws fairly, punishing those that are Asian for the same sort of behavior, rather than chalking it up to cultural. Why is England paying for the restoration of virginity for those returning 'home' to get married, but can't see paying for the obese WWII vet with cancer? Those would be some of the questions I'd ask myself.
    Truly, you and the government is guessing here, there is not one whit of evidence to back that up. In fact, the Muslim groups are always calling 'foul' and the government and 'reasonable' people are always trying to appease more.
    Like onedomino, this strikes me as the height of avoidance. Tell me, if you were to go to your church or an association and the leaders were speaking of hate and domination, (sort of like the neo-Nazi groups, would you stay? I think not. So what makes you think that those you consider 'moderate' are? Which was my point about the 'good people.' See the neo-Nazis are the weakest link that is reacting to the threat. A couple charismatic leaders there and then you'll have your war.
    Actually, I think this last bit is quite on the subject and the one area that many Americans can relate to. I think as a result of being able to speak up here, at least so far, both our illegals and those that think that it has gotten out of hand are able to argue openly. While our 'war' about illegals is on going and far from won, our politicians are aware that they cannot operate on this the way they wish, not if they wish to be reelected. On the other side, illegals are recognizing that the sides are engaged and time is against them. While anecdotal, there are stories of people returning at least to Mexico to try to rectify their standing. Of course, these are the people that have been causing no harm, other than in salaries. In all likelihood they will return, legally, better for us and them.
     

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