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Eurabia: A Continent in Flight
- Thread starter American_Jihad
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #142
Europe Still Sleeps, and Europeans Still Die
And Europe can’t say it wasn’t warned.
March 30, 2016
Bruce Thornton
While England Slept is the title of Winston Churchill’s 1938 book documenting the failure of England to counter Germany’s rearmament. Despite the gruesome price paid for ignoring Churchill’s warnings, postwar Europe has slumbered for decades while its cultural dysfunctions have nurtured the jihadist violence erupting across Europe. Last week’s attacks in Brussels, coming four months after the Paris attacks that killed 130, suggests there are more attacks to come. According to AP, 400-600 ISIS-trained terrorists are making their way to Europe.
Europe can’t say it wasn’t warned. In 2002 Oriana Fallaci published The Rage and the Pride, a passionate defense of Western civilization and an indictment of those who appease Islamic illiberalism. Ten years ago Bruce Bawer’s While Europe Slept gave first-hand reports of Europe’s feckless immigration policies that fostered and appeased Muslim radicalism and violence. A year later Claire Berlinski’s Menace in Europe and Melanie Phillips’ Londonistan sounded the same alarms. And there are the dystopian novels of Michel Houellebecq like Platform and last year’s Submission, which link Europe’s cultural and spiritual exhaustion to the rise of homegrown jihadism and Islamization.
An even more important prophet is Bat Ye’or, whose Eurabia (2005) documented “Europe’s evolution from a Judeo-Christian civilization, with important post-Enlightenment secular elements, into a post-Judeo-Christian civilization that is subservient to the ideology of jihad and the Islamic powers that propagate it.” The result is the dhimmi mentality of Europe’s elites, which manifests in word and deed Western inferiority to Islam, and guilt over alleged crimes against the Muslim world.
But a secularized Europe committed to multicultural fantasies and la dolce vita as the highest goods has dismissed these prophets as bigots and “Islamophobes” who distort the “religion of peace.” Yet after the collapse of the Ottoman caliphate in 1923––the “catastrophe” Osama bin Laden mentioned after 9/11–– the theorists of modern jihadism were forthright and plain in expressing the intolerant and triumphalist Islamic beliefs and jihadist imperative consistent with Ye’or’s analysis. Islam’s nature, Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna wrote, is “to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its laws on all nations, and extend its power to the entire planet.” Fellow Muslim Brother Sayyid Qutb concurred: “Islam has a right to remove all those obstacles which are in its path.” The Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of the Iranian Revolution, agreed: “The great prophet of Islam carried in one hand the Koran and in the other a sword; the sword is for crushing the traitor and the Koran for guidance . . . Islam is a religion of blood for infidels but a religion of guidance for other people.”
Nor are these sentiments alien to traditional Islamic beliefs as codified in the Koran, Hadith, Muslim histories, and the biographies of Mohammed. As such, the jihadist imperative, despite anticolonial and nationalist rhetoric, was the foundational motivation for the military attacks on Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973, and today it still drives the terror campaigns against Israel waged by Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO. Jihad in the name of Allah sparked the Iranian Revolution of 1979, and the subsequent launching of the Iranian terrorist mother ship from which numerous jihadist organizations have continued to receive training and financial support. The Taliban who gave sanctuary to al Qaeda in Afghanistan are close students of jihad and shari’a law, executing transgressors in a soccer stadium paid for by the EU.
Nor has the West been spared. Jihad lay at the heart of al Qaeda’s serial attacks on the U.S. and its military in 1993 (first World Trade Center bombing), 1996 (Khobar Towers), 1998 (East African embassies), 2000 (U.S.S. Cole), and the spectacular carnage of September 11, 2001, as well as inspiring the terrorist murders in Madrid (2004), London (2005), Fort Hood (2013), Boston (2013), San Bernardino (2015), Paris (January and November, 2015), and now Brussels. And don’t forget the torture, rape, and murders perpetrated by ISIS, the latest and most successful example of modern jihadism inspired by traditional Islamic doctrine.
...
Europe Still Sleeps, and Europeans Still Die
And Europe can’t say it wasn’t warned.
March 30, 2016
Bruce Thornton
While England Slept is the title of Winston Churchill’s 1938 book documenting the failure of England to counter Germany’s rearmament. Despite the gruesome price paid for ignoring Churchill’s warnings, postwar Europe has slumbered for decades while its cultural dysfunctions have nurtured the jihadist violence erupting across Europe. Last week’s attacks in Brussels, coming four months after the Paris attacks that killed 130, suggests there are more attacks to come. According to AP, 400-600 ISIS-trained terrorists are making their way to Europe.
Europe can’t say it wasn’t warned. In 2002 Oriana Fallaci published The Rage and the Pride, a passionate defense of Western civilization and an indictment of those who appease Islamic illiberalism. Ten years ago Bruce Bawer’s While Europe Slept gave first-hand reports of Europe’s feckless immigration policies that fostered and appeased Muslim radicalism and violence. A year later Claire Berlinski’s Menace in Europe and Melanie Phillips’ Londonistan sounded the same alarms. And there are the dystopian novels of Michel Houellebecq like Platform and last year’s Submission, which link Europe’s cultural and spiritual exhaustion to the rise of homegrown jihadism and Islamization.
An even more important prophet is Bat Ye’or, whose Eurabia (2005) documented “Europe’s evolution from a Judeo-Christian civilization, with important post-Enlightenment secular elements, into a post-Judeo-Christian civilization that is subservient to the ideology of jihad and the Islamic powers that propagate it.” The result is the dhimmi mentality of Europe’s elites, which manifests in word and deed Western inferiority to Islam, and guilt over alleged crimes against the Muslim world.
But a secularized Europe committed to multicultural fantasies and la dolce vita as the highest goods has dismissed these prophets as bigots and “Islamophobes” who distort the “religion of peace.” Yet after the collapse of the Ottoman caliphate in 1923––the “catastrophe” Osama bin Laden mentioned after 9/11–– the theorists of modern jihadism were forthright and plain in expressing the intolerant and triumphalist Islamic beliefs and jihadist imperative consistent with Ye’or’s analysis. Islam’s nature, Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna wrote, is “to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its laws on all nations, and extend its power to the entire planet.” Fellow Muslim Brother Sayyid Qutb concurred: “Islam has a right to remove all those obstacles which are in its path.” The Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of the Iranian Revolution, agreed: “The great prophet of Islam carried in one hand the Koran and in the other a sword; the sword is for crushing the traitor and the Koran for guidance . . . Islam is a religion of blood for infidels but a religion of guidance for other people.”
Nor are these sentiments alien to traditional Islamic beliefs as codified in the Koran, Hadith, Muslim histories, and the biographies of Mohammed. As such, the jihadist imperative, despite anticolonial and nationalist rhetoric, was the foundational motivation for the military attacks on Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973, and today it still drives the terror campaigns against Israel waged by Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO. Jihad in the name of Allah sparked the Iranian Revolution of 1979, and the subsequent launching of the Iranian terrorist mother ship from which numerous jihadist organizations have continued to receive training and financial support. The Taliban who gave sanctuary to al Qaeda in Afghanistan are close students of jihad and shari’a law, executing transgressors in a soccer stadium paid for by the EU.
Nor has the West been spared. Jihad lay at the heart of al Qaeda’s serial attacks on the U.S. and its military in 1993 (first World Trade Center bombing), 1996 (Khobar Towers), 1998 (East African embassies), 2000 (U.S.S. Cole), and the spectacular carnage of September 11, 2001, as well as inspiring the terrorist murders in Madrid (2004), London (2005), Fort Hood (2013), Boston (2013), San Bernardino (2015), Paris (January and November, 2015), and now Brussels. And don’t forget the torture, rape, and murders perpetrated by ISIS, the latest and most successful example of modern jihadism inspired by traditional Islamic doctrine.
...
Europe Still Sleeps, and Europeans Still Die
montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
- 18,686
- 2,104
- 280
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
MDiver
Gold Member
Those in flight need to go to Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic or, Hungary. Once there they don't have to deal with the influx of Muslims.
- Thread starter
- #145
Robert Kaplan: 'Europe Was Defined By Islam. And Islam Is Redefining It Now.'
Is it really Europeans who need to compromise?
April 25, 2016
Hugh Fitzgerald
Robert Kaplan, a contributing editor to The Atlantic, has just published a piece on Islam and the future of Europe. He claims, startlingly, that Europe “was essentially defined by Islam,” by which he means that before Islam swept across North Africa, Europe consisted of a single civilization, on both banks of the Mediterranean — that of the Roman Empire — and that Islam’s arrival severed “the Mediterranean region into two civilizational halves.” It is true that Muslim conquerors swept across North Africa in the seventh and eighth centuries, but not quite true, pace Kaplan, that they “extinguished Christianity there.” Millions of Coptic Christians remained a majority in Egypt until the 14th century (that is, for at least 700 years after the time that Kaplan claims Muslim armies “virtually extinguished Christianity” in North Africa). And while it is true that the Roman Empire was sundered, it was not only by the forces of Islam, as Kaplan appears to believe: before the Arab armies arrived, others had been seizing territory from Roman control, including the Visigoths in Spain and the Vandals, who conquered the Roman province of Africa in 433 and held it till 539.
Kaplan quotes with evident approval Jose Ortega y Gasset that “all European history has been a great migration toward the North.” Is that true? The Roman Empire fell because of a great migration of the Germanic tribes from the north and northeast to the South; it was they, the Barbarians, who beat down the steady Roman legions and seized Rome in 476 A.D., with the Germanic warrior Odoacer placed on the throne. And even before the Fall of Rome, the Roman Empire had divided into Eastern and Western Empires, one ruled from Rome, the other from Constantinople. Surely that split was just as significant, for the future of European civilization, with the Western empire embracing Latin Catholicism, and the Eastern empire Orthodox Christianity, as the loss of North Africa to Islam.
Racing through the centuries, Kaplan in the same sentence leaps from “the breakup of the Roman empire” (into East and West, but he says nothing further about the colossal effect of that split) to “that northward migration” which “saw the Germanic peoples (the Goths, Vandals, Franks, and Lombards) forge the rudiments of Western civilization.” This is a doubly bizarre remark, since it was their southern migration which brought the Germanic peoples within the borders of the Roman Empire and ultimately to Rome. And it was the Romans of both the Western and Eastern Empires, not the Germanic tribes, who forged more than the rudiments of Western civilization, including such monumental achievements as, in the Eastern Empire, the Code of Justinian.
Kaplan fleetingly mentions, exactly three times, what should be at the center of any history of Europe: Christianity itself. He writes that the Slavs and Magyars “adopted Christianity,” that European unity began with the concept of a “Christendom” in “inevitable opposition to Islam,” and that Muslims in Europe today “have no desire to be Christians” – and that’s all he has to say on the subject of Europe and Christianity. He does not discuss what Christianity has contributed to forming the European mentality over the last two thousand years, or how it has influenced, even shaped, Europe’s art and music, its literature, its philosophy, its political thought, its more, none of it thinkable without taking into the account the influence of Christianity. Kaplan has Islam on his mind, and were he to do justice to Christianity, his readers might begin to see the sense of insisting that it was not Islam, but Christianity, that “defined Europe.”
If Islam and the Muslim armies hadn’t existed, Europe’s civilizational boundaries would be different – could still extend into North Africa and the Levant — but the nature of that civilization would not be different from what it was, and is. Europe would still have been a child of Greece and Rome and ancient Israel. Islam did not contribute to those many things – art, music, literature, philosophy, political theory – that we mean by “civilization.” Islam created in its adherents a mentality that abhorred novelty, or bida, that held to a kind of inshallah-fatalism based on the view of an Allah who could interfere, at whim and subject to no laws, with the lives of men, that encouraged a habit of mental submission rather than of skeptical inquiry. European civilization stood in stark contrast, promoting rather than anathematizing the new, believing in a God who was not whimsical but rationally prepared to obey His own laws, and promoting critical thought and inquiry. After the initial sweep of Muslim armies through North Africa, halted at the highwater mark for Islam of Poitiers in the West and, centuries later, of Vienna in the East, Islam’s “contribution” to Europe consisted solely of military aggression, mainly through raids by sea (in one case, Muslim raiders got as far as Iceland). But Islam contributed nothing to European culture. Civilizationally, Europe remained a child of Greece and Rome and Israel, and then, of course, for two millennia, of Christianity. The armies of Islam waged war as best they could; their gains and losses helped to define Europe’s political boundaries, but Islam had no effect on the European mentality.
Kaplan several times mentions Edward Said’s book Orientalism favorably, claiming that it set out how “Islam had defined Europe culturally, by showing what it was against. Europe’s identity, in other words, was built in significant measure on a sense of superiority to the Muslim Arab world on its periphery.” What Said mainly tried to do in Orientalism was different: to endow with a new and insidious meaning the word “Orientalist,” which hitherto had referred neutrally to Western scholars of the languages of the Levant (especially Arabic), and of Islam and Islamic civilization. Said claimed that these “Orientalists” studied Arabic as part of a deliberate campaign to justify and help the project of Western imperialism by means of their putatively unsympathetic or hostile treatment of Oriental peoples. The devastating detailed critique of Said’s use of “Orientalism” as a term of polemical abuse, delivered by Bernard Lewis in 1982, and which many considered a knockout blow, apparently has not yet reached Robert D. Kaplan.
Kaplan appears to believe that European unity in the early modern period could not have been achieved without Europe’s “inevitable opposition” to Islam. This “inevitable opposition” to Islam was, Kaplan says, “a concept that culminated in the Crusades.” No, the Crusades were not the culmination of some “inevitable opposition” to inoffensive Muslims. Rather, Europe’s opposition to Islam “culminating in the Crusades” was fed by centuries of Muslim attacks up and down the coasts of Europe (and not the other way around), and the Crusades were undertaken initially in order to repel an assault by Muslim Seljuk Turks on Anatolia, and the Christian effort then broadened into an attempt to retake the Holy Land because, for a century, Muslims had made life hell for Christians in the Holy Land, beginning with the almost-total destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre on the orders of the Caliph Al-Hakim in 1009, and attacks on Christian pilgrims that kept them from travelling freely to, and within, the Holy Land. This understandable response to continuous Muslim aggression hardly required an “inevitable opposition” to “Islam.”
...
Kaplan’s take on the Islamic invasion of Europe is peculiar: fond of the idea of a once-and-future Europe, on both sides of the Mediterranean, being resurrected in a return to “a classical geography” — that of the Roman Empire — “as terrorism and migration reunite North Africa and the Levant with Europe.” Terrorism and migration are not “reuniting” Europe; they are destroying Europe, for these are simply two means of Muslim conquest, first by striking terror into the hearts of Infidels, and second, by demographically overwhelming them. As for invoking the future threat of the “dementia of ideologies,” what is Kaplan talking about? The only “dementia” apparent in Europe today is that of Muslim migrants in mental thrall to the ideology of Islam and, just as worrisome, the dementia of those non-Muslims who, like Robert Kaplan, fail to see what is staring them in the face – not the promise of a “new Europe” but the threat of a Europe that could be destroyed by the failure of its citizens to recognize, halt, and determinedly turn back, what has now become a Muslim invasion.
Robert Kaplan: 'Europe Was Defined By Islam. And Islam Is Redefining It Now.'
Is it really Europeans who need to compromise?
April 25, 2016
Hugh Fitzgerald
Robert Kaplan, a contributing editor to The Atlantic, has just published a piece on Islam and the future of Europe. He claims, startlingly, that Europe “was essentially defined by Islam,” by which he means that before Islam swept across North Africa, Europe consisted of a single civilization, on both banks of the Mediterranean — that of the Roman Empire — and that Islam’s arrival severed “the Mediterranean region into two civilizational halves.” It is true that Muslim conquerors swept across North Africa in the seventh and eighth centuries, but not quite true, pace Kaplan, that they “extinguished Christianity there.” Millions of Coptic Christians remained a majority in Egypt until the 14th century (that is, for at least 700 years after the time that Kaplan claims Muslim armies “virtually extinguished Christianity” in North Africa). And while it is true that the Roman Empire was sundered, it was not only by the forces of Islam, as Kaplan appears to believe: before the Arab armies arrived, others had been seizing territory from Roman control, including the Visigoths in Spain and the Vandals, who conquered the Roman province of Africa in 433 and held it till 539.
Kaplan quotes with evident approval Jose Ortega y Gasset that “all European history has been a great migration toward the North.” Is that true? The Roman Empire fell because of a great migration of the Germanic tribes from the north and northeast to the South; it was they, the Barbarians, who beat down the steady Roman legions and seized Rome in 476 A.D., with the Germanic warrior Odoacer placed on the throne. And even before the Fall of Rome, the Roman Empire had divided into Eastern and Western Empires, one ruled from Rome, the other from Constantinople. Surely that split was just as significant, for the future of European civilization, with the Western empire embracing Latin Catholicism, and the Eastern empire Orthodox Christianity, as the loss of North Africa to Islam.
Racing through the centuries, Kaplan in the same sentence leaps from “the breakup of the Roman empire” (into East and West, but he says nothing further about the colossal effect of that split) to “that northward migration” which “saw the Germanic peoples (the Goths, Vandals, Franks, and Lombards) forge the rudiments of Western civilization.” This is a doubly bizarre remark, since it was their southern migration which brought the Germanic peoples within the borders of the Roman Empire and ultimately to Rome. And it was the Romans of both the Western and Eastern Empires, not the Germanic tribes, who forged more than the rudiments of Western civilization, including such monumental achievements as, in the Eastern Empire, the Code of Justinian.
Kaplan fleetingly mentions, exactly three times, what should be at the center of any history of Europe: Christianity itself. He writes that the Slavs and Magyars “adopted Christianity,” that European unity began with the concept of a “Christendom” in “inevitable opposition to Islam,” and that Muslims in Europe today “have no desire to be Christians” – and that’s all he has to say on the subject of Europe and Christianity. He does not discuss what Christianity has contributed to forming the European mentality over the last two thousand years, or how it has influenced, even shaped, Europe’s art and music, its literature, its philosophy, its political thought, its more, none of it thinkable without taking into the account the influence of Christianity. Kaplan has Islam on his mind, and were he to do justice to Christianity, his readers might begin to see the sense of insisting that it was not Islam, but Christianity, that “defined Europe.”
If Islam and the Muslim armies hadn’t existed, Europe’s civilizational boundaries would be different – could still extend into North Africa and the Levant — but the nature of that civilization would not be different from what it was, and is. Europe would still have been a child of Greece and Rome and ancient Israel. Islam did not contribute to those many things – art, music, literature, philosophy, political theory – that we mean by “civilization.” Islam created in its adherents a mentality that abhorred novelty, or bida, that held to a kind of inshallah-fatalism based on the view of an Allah who could interfere, at whim and subject to no laws, with the lives of men, that encouraged a habit of mental submission rather than of skeptical inquiry. European civilization stood in stark contrast, promoting rather than anathematizing the new, believing in a God who was not whimsical but rationally prepared to obey His own laws, and promoting critical thought and inquiry. After the initial sweep of Muslim armies through North Africa, halted at the highwater mark for Islam of Poitiers in the West and, centuries later, of Vienna in the East, Islam’s “contribution” to Europe consisted solely of military aggression, mainly through raids by sea (in one case, Muslim raiders got as far as Iceland). But Islam contributed nothing to European culture. Civilizationally, Europe remained a child of Greece and Rome and Israel, and then, of course, for two millennia, of Christianity. The armies of Islam waged war as best they could; their gains and losses helped to define Europe’s political boundaries, but Islam had no effect on the European mentality.
Kaplan several times mentions Edward Said’s book Orientalism favorably, claiming that it set out how “Islam had defined Europe culturally, by showing what it was against. Europe’s identity, in other words, was built in significant measure on a sense of superiority to the Muslim Arab world on its periphery.” What Said mainly tried to do in Orientalism was different: to endow with a new and insidious meaning the word “Orientalist,” which hitherto had referred neutrally to Western scholars of the languages of the Levant (especially Arabic), and of Islam and Islamic civilization. Said claimed that these “Orientalists” studied Arabic as part of a deliberate campaign to justify and help the project of Western imperialism by means of their putatively unsympathetic or hostile treatment of Oriental peoples. The devastating detailed critique of Said’s use of “Orientalism” as a term of polemical abuse, delivered by Bernard Lewis in 1982, and which many considered a knockout blow, apparently has not yet reached Robert D. Kaplan.
Kaplan appears to believe that European unity in the early modern period could not have been achieved without Europe’s “inevitable opposition” to Islam. This “inevitable opposition” to Islam was, Kaplan says, “a concept that culminated in the Crusades.” No, the Crusades were not the culmination of some “inevitable opposition” to inoffensive Muslims. Rather, Europe’s opposition to Islam “culminating in the Crusades” was fed by centuries of Muslim attacks up and down the coasts of Europe (and not the other way around), and the Crusades were undertaken initially in order to repel an assault by Muslim Seljuk Turks on Anatolia, and the Christian effort then broadened into an attempt to retake the Holy Land because, for a century, Muslims had made life hell for Christians in the Holy Land, beginning with the almost-total destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre on the orders of the Caliph Al-Hakim in 1009, and attacks on Christian pilgrims that kept them from travelling freely to, and within, the Holy Land. This understandable response to continuous Muslim aggression hardly required an “inevitable opposition” to “Islam.”
...
Kaplan’s take on the Islamic invasion of Europe is peculiar: fond of the idea of a once-and-future Europe, on both sides of the Mediterranean, being resurrected in a return to “a classical geography” — that of the Roman Empire — “as terrorism and migration reunite North Africa and the Levant with Europe.” Terrorism and migration are not “reuniting” Europe; they are destroying Europe, for these are simply two means of Muslim conquest, first by striking terror into the hearts of Infidels, and second, by demographically overwhelming them. As for invoking the future threat of the “dementia of ideologies,” what is Kaplan talking about? The only “dementia” apparent in Europe today is that of Muslim migrants in mental thrall to the ideology of Islam and, just as worrisome, the dementia of those non-Muslims who, like Robert Kaplan, fail to see what is staring them in the face – not the promise of a “new Europe” but the threat of a Europe that could be destroyed by the failure of its citizens to recognize, halt, and determinedly turn back, what has now become a Muslim invasion.
Robert Kaplan: 'Europe Was Defined By Islam. And Islam Is Redefining It Now.'
- Thread starter
- #146
12 Killed, 50 Injured in Truck Attack on Christmas Market in Berlin
December 19, 2016
Daniel Greenfield
UPDATE: Welt is claiming the driver is a Pakistani refugee. Beliner Zeitung states that he entered Germany as an Afghan refugee.
The death toll is apparently up to at least 12.
Reports are still preliminary and the suspect has not yet been named. But here is what we know about the attack on the Christmas market near the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church.
...
Nothing to do with Islam. Of course.
The driver who was meant to be driving was apparently Polish, but it appears that he was the dead passenger. It's possible that the truck had been hijacked.
There are reports that the driver was Pakistani.
12 Killed, 50 Injured in Truck Attack on Christmas Market in Berlin
December 19, 2016
Daniel Greenfield
UPDATE: Welt is claiming the driver is a Pakistani refugee. Beliner Zeitung states that he entered Germany as an Afghan refugee.
The death toll is apparently up to at least 12.
Reports are still preliminary and the suspect has not yet been named. But here is what we know about the attack on the Christmas market near the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church.
...
Nothing to do with Islam. Of course.
The driver who was meant to be driving was apparently Polish, but it appears that he was the dead passenger. It's possible that the truck had been hijacked.
There are reports that the driver was Pakistani.
12 Killed, 50 Injured in Truck Attack on Christmas Market in Berlin
- Thread starter
- #149
“Norwegian Islam”?
A smooth-talking stealth jihadist continues his rise to the top of the Norwegian cultural establishment.
December 29, 2016
Bruce Bawer
Who is Mohammed Usman Rana? He's a 31-year-old Norwegian doctor and newspaper columnist who first appeared on my radar in 2007 when, as an undergraduate at the University of Oslo, he took part in a debate about Muslim attitudes toward gay people. Rana, who at the time was head of UiO's Muslim Student Association, said that he personally opposed executing gays, but refused to criticize countries that punish homosexuality with death. Pressed further on the issue by his opponents, Rana pulled a slick switcheroo, charging that it was not he but they who were displaying intolerance. How dare they sit in judgment of Islamic law?
Did Rana's failure to condemn the execution of gay people make him an outcast? Of course not – we're talking about Scandinavia here, after all. Only a few months after the above-mentioned debate, he wrote an op-ed for Aftenposten, Norway's newspaper of record, in which he picked up where he'd left off. Norwegians, he complained in the piece, are “secular extremists” who are insufficiently respectful of orthodox Islam, who hope for an “Islamic reformation” that would in fact mutilate the religion, and who prefer to hear from secular Muslims and ex-Muslims (think Ayaan Hirsi Ali) than from genuine believers such as himself.
Rana's essay won an award from Aftenposten – a victory that catapulted him into the top ranks of the nation's commentariat and made him, in the words of author Ole Asbjørn Ness, “Aftenposten's deadly serious house Islamist.” Who, by the way, chose to give Rana the award? A fellow by the name of Knut Olav Åmås, who at the time was an editor of Aftenposten and who happens to be openly gay. Yes, that's right: a gay editor gave a major career boost to a writer who refused to criticize the death penalty for gay people. Welcome to Norway.
This year saw another milestone for Rana: his first book. It was published by one of Norway's oldest and most distinguished houses, Aschehoug, and it was launched at a splashy event hosted by Fritt Ord, a free-speech foundation, where Rana was given an oddly jocund introduction by Fritt Ord's CEO, none other than the aforementioned Knut Olav Åmås. Also on hand to praise Rana were Trine Skei Grande, head of the Norwegian Liberal Party (who took the opportunity to slam Fox News for its purported Islamophobia), and Hanne Skartveit, political editor of Norway's largest newspaper, VG. (Interestingly, while Fritt Ord was given a media lashing in 2013 for supporting a book project by Islam critic Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen, aka “Fjordman,” nobody publicly criticized Fritt Ord's support for Rana.)
...
One thing is clear from Rana's piece: Trump has him scared. And with good reason. Because Trump has his number – and Islam's number. Trump, unlike Trine Skei Grande and countless other feckless European politicians, doesn't show up for talks by the likes of Rana and pat them on the head while murmuring sweet nothings about diversity and multiculturalism; he recognizes guys like Rana as existential threats to Western freedom, and he means to do something about them. And Rana's smart enough to know it.
“Norwegian Islam”?
A smooth-talking stealth jihadist continues his rise to the top of the Norwegian cultural establishment.
December 29, 2016
Bruce Bawer
Who is Mohammed Usman Rana? He's a 31-year-old Norwegian doctor and newspaper columnist who first appeared on my radar in 2007 when, as an undergraduate at the University of Oslo, he took part in a debate about Muslim attitudes toward gay people. Rana, who at the time was head of UiO's Muslim Student Association, said that he personally opposed executing gays, but refused to criticize countries that punish homosexuality with death. Pressed further on the issue by his opponents, Rana pulled a slick switcheroo, charging that it was not he but they who were displaying intolerance. How dare they sit in judgment of Islamic law?
Did Rana's failure to condemn the execution of gay people make him an outcast? Of course not – we're talking about Scandinavia here, after all. Only a few months after the above-mentioned debate, he wrote an op-ed for Aftenposten, Norway's newspaper of record, in which he picked up where he'd left off. Norwegians, he complained in the piece, are “secular extremists” who are insufficiently respectful of orthodox Islam, who hope for an “Islamic reformation” that would in fact mutilate the religion, and who prefer to hear from secular Muslims and ex-Muslims (think Ayaan Hirsi Ali) than from genuine believers such as himself.
Rana's essay won an award from Aftenposten – a victory that catapulted him into the top ranks of the nation's commentariat and made him, in the words of author Ole Asbjørn Ness, “Aftenposten's deadly serious house Islamist.” Who, by the way, chose to give Rana the award? A fellow by the name of Knut Olav Åmås, who at the time was an editor of Aftenposten and who happens to be openly gay. Yes, that's right: a gay editor gave a major career boost to a writer who refused to criticize the death penalty for gay people. Welcome to Norway.
This year saw another milestone for Rana: his first book. It was published by one of Norway's oldest and most distinguished houses, Aschehoug, and it was launched at a splashy event hosted by Fritt Ord, a free-speech foundation, where Rana was given an oddly jocund introduction by Fritt Ord's CEO, none other than the aforementioned Knut Olav Åmås. Also on hand to praise Rana were Trine Skei Grande, head of the Norwegian Liberal Party (who took the opportunity to slam Fox News for its purported Islamophobia), and Hanne Skartveit, political editor of Norway's largest newspaper, VG. (Interestingly, while Fritt Ord was given a media lashing in 2013 for supporting a book project by Islam critic Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen, aka “Fjordman,” nobody publicly criticized Fritt Ord's support for Rana.)
...
One thing is clear from Rana's piece: Trump has him scared. And with good reason. Because Trump has his number – and Islam's number. Trump, unlike Trine Skei Grande and countless other feckless European politicians, doesn't show up for talks by the likes of Rana and pat them on the head while murmuring sweet nothings about diversity and multiculturalism; he recognizes guys like Rana as existential threats to Western freedom, and he means to do something about them. And Rana's smart enough to know it.
“Norwegian Islam”?
“Norwegian Islam”?
A smooth-talking stealth jihadist continues his rise to the top of the Norwegian cultural establishment.
December 29, 2016
Bruce Bawer
Who is Mohammed Usman Rana? He's a 31-year-old Norwegian doctor and newspaper columnist who first appeared on my radar in 2007 when, as an undergraduate at the University of Oslo, he took part in a debate about Muslim attitudes toward gay people. Rana, who at the time was head of UiO's Muslim Student Association, said that he personally opposed executing gays, but refused to criticize countries that punish homosexuality with death. Pressed further on the issue by his opponents, Rana pulled a slick switcheroo, charging that it was not he but they who were displaying intolerance. How dare they sit in judgment of Islamic law?
Did Rana's failure to condemn the execution of gay people make him an outcast? Of course not – we're talking about Scandinavia here, after all. Only a few months after the above-mentioned debate, he wrote an op-ed for Aftenposten, Norway's newspaper of record, in which he picked up where he'd left off. Norwegians, he complained in the piece, are “secular extremists” who are insufficiently respectful of orthodox Islam, who hope for an “Islamic reformation” that would in fact mutilate the religion, and who prefer to hear from secular Muslims and ex-Muslims (think Ayaan Hirsi Ali) than from genuine believers such as himself.
Rana's essay won an award from Aftenposten – a victory that catapulted him into the top ranks of the nation's commentariat and made him, in the words of author Ole Asbjørn Ness, “Aftenposten's deadly serious house Islamist.” Who, by the way, chose to give Rana the award? A fellow by the name of Knut Olav Åmås, who at the time was an editor of Aftenposten and who happens to be openly gay. Yes, that's right: a gay editor gave a major career boost to a writer who refused to criticize the death penalty for gay people. Welcome to Norway.
This year saw another milestone for Rana: his first book. It was published by one of Norway's oldest and most distinguished houses, Aschehoug, and it was launched at a splashy event hosted by Fritt Ord, a free-speech foundation, where Rana was given an oddly jocund introduction by Fritt Ord's CEO, none other than the aforementioned Knut Olav Åmås. Also on hand to praise Rana were Trine Skei Grande, head of the Norwegian Liberal Party (who took the opportunity to slam Fox News for its purported Islamophobia), and Hanne Skartveit, political editor of Norway's largest newspaper, VG. (Interestingly, while Fritt Ord was given a media lashing in 2013 for supporting a book project by Islam critic Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen, aka “Fjordman,” nobody publicly criticized Fritt Ord's support for Rana.)
...
One thing is clear from Rana's piece: Trump has him scared. And with good reason. Because Trump has his number – and Islam's number. Trump, unlike Trine Skei Grande and countless other feckless European politicians, doesn't show up for talks by the likes of Rana and pat them on the head while murmuring sweet nothings about diversity and multiculturalism; he recognizes guys like Rana as existential threats to Western freedom, and he means to do something about them. And Rana's smart enough to know it.
“Norwegian Islam”?
And, in America.....Muslims are infiltrating the government as well.
1. "Let’s not forget the case of one Pakistani agent by the name of Syed Ghulam Nabi Faiwho infiltrated our party not long ago in an attempt to influence our elected officials. The 62 year old Fairfax, VA resident was supported by the Pakistani ISI—the very organization who many believe supported in the aiding and harboring of Osama Bin Laden.[Ed. Note: Nabi Fai's activities dated to the terms President Bill Clinton, a Democrat, served.] If you believe Nabi Fai is the only foreign agent to infiltrate and influence our party, you are wrong. It happens more often than you could imagine. He just happened to get caught."
Imad David Ramadan The Counter Jihad Report The US Report - The US Report - Did Hezbollah foreign agents and unions infiltrate the Republican Party
a. " WASHINGTON—Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, 62, a U.S. citizen and resident of Fairfax, Va., pleaded guilty today to conspiracy and tax violations in connection with a decades-long scheme to conceal the transfer of at least $3.5 million from the government of Pakistan to fund his lobbying efforts in America related to Kashmir." FBI mdash Virginia Man Pleads Guilty in Scheme to Conceal Pakistan Government Funding for His U.S. Lobbying Efforts
b. Mr. Fai’s apparently decades-long scheme had one purpose — to hide foreign involvement in Fai’s efforts to influence U.S. government policies. A foreign government intelligence service funneled millions through Fai so he could contribute to U.S. elected officials. His largest identified donations went to the National Republican Senatorial Committee."
Foreign Influence in American Politics Imad Ramadan in Virginia
To be fair, we cannot count on either party: they are both susceptible to lobbying.....bribing.....as well as some other methods.
Lobbying official is one way.
Becoming elected officials is another.
If one researches the Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai case, one is led to another individual's questionable links and leanings in the same direction.
2. "David-Imad Ramadan(born May 31, 1970) is a Lebanon-born American politician and businessman. He has beena Republican member of the Virginia House of Delegates since January 2012, representing the 87th district in Loudoun and Prince William counties... a political activist with active roles in the Republican Party of Virginia (RPV), The Loudoun County Republican Committee,[6] and the Arab-American Republican community. He has served on presidential political campaigns as well as on gubernatorial and senatorial campaignsand was appointed by RPV Chair in 2008 to ethnic outreach leadership"
David Ramadan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
a. “When an honest person has been a member of a destructive movement and leaves it, he will feel compelled to repudiate it publicly and to warn others of the dangers it poses. This is a sure test as to whether someone has left the Muslim Brotherhood or not,” Horowitz said.
Kent Clizbe, a former CIA operations officer who has converted to Islam to marry a Muslim woman (as [Grover] Norquist has done),came away troubled from his own encounter with Imad Ramadanin August."
Grover Norquist?s New Muslim Protégé | FrontPage Magazine - Part 2
3. " Imad Ramadan is just the latest of a series of Muslim protégés discovered and promoted by Republican activist Grover Norquist, ....
What’s wrong with Muslims running for public office or assuming prominent positions in the conservative movement? Nothing at all – as long as they are clear about the primacy of the U.S. Constitution over Koranic (or Sharia) law.
So how do you identify an Islamist – that is, someone who believes in the Koranic precept that Islam must dominate the world through voluntary submission or by force –especially if he goes out of his way to appear non-aggressive?
The answer is actually pretty simple. You listen to see if he denounces Islamic dictatorship – the rule of Hezbollah in Lebanon, the rule of the Shiite clerics in Iran, the rule of Hamas in Gaza or the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, or the rule of the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia."
Grover Norquist?s New Muslim Protégé | FrontPage Magazine - Part 2
After the revelations of communist infiltration and control of Franklin Roosevelt's administration, wouldn't you think Americans would pay closer attention to who is running the government?
A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic,if you can keep it.”
4. " Americans must be aware of covert foreign influence in our political system...
a. Imad “David” Ramadan is running for the Republican nomination for the House of Delegates in Virginia’s 87thdistrict. After a few years of generous donations to Virginia Republicans, Ramadan made his move. Investing an estimated $500,000 in his campaign, hiring out-of-state consultants, and pulling the strings of his obligated donation recipients, Ramadan appeared to believe he is owed the seat.
b. Just over 40 years old, Ramadan has lived in the US for about 20 years. Public records show that he arrived in the US, on a student visa, and never went back to Lebanon. He had married a fellow Lebanese and declared bankruptcy in 1994.
c. Then he suddenly opened a business after 2001, and became an “international business consultant.” With no apparent business experience, he bragged on his website that he served “a select group of clients.” He claimed to be the head of a law firm (though he’s not a lawyer). He claimed to represent an American women’s gym chain in India and “the Middle East.”
d. Ramadan, from what I can make out, is the scion of a Lebanese Shi’a family. He told me that his father paid for him to attend university in Virginia. It would be very interesting to hear more details about these issues.
The Lebanese Shi’a are the backbone of the terrorist organization, Hezbollah (The Party of God).
Imad’s citizenship status is murky as well. According to public records, Imad Ramadan married a fellow Lebanese, Ghanda Abdul Rahman Zoghbi on Dec. 30, 1994, in Alexandria, Virginia, while he was a graduate student. Just the month before, in Nov. 1994, court records show that Imad Ramadan declared bankruptcy.
Imad claims that he is now (2011) married to “Christie Wray” of Franklin, Virginia. Efforts to find evidence of Imad’s divorce from his first wife, the daughter of a Lebanese military intelligence general, were unsuccessful.
Foreign Influence in American Politics Imad Ramadan in Virginia
montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
- 18,686
- 2,104
- 280
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
- Thread starter
- #152
RELAX: MUSLIM TRUCKER WHO POSTED JIHAD MATERIAL TO BE “DERADICALIZED”
In other words, nothing is going to be done to stop him.
April 17, 2017
Robert Spencer
The Italian news site ANSA reported Wednesday that a convert to Islam who calls himself Muhammad Santamato “posted material praising jihad,” and is now, authorities said, to be “deradicalized.” Italian authorities could just as well have said that they weren’t going to do anything to stop Santamato from carrying out a jihad attack, since one of the most obvious but little-noted aspects of the West’s catastrophic response to jihad terror is the abject failure of “deradicalization” programs.
ANSA noted that “Alfredo alias Muhammad Santamato, 42, was flagged as a potential threat, perhaps using his truck to target civilians as in recent attacks in Nice, Berlin, London and Stockholm, police said.” But relax: “his license has been confiscated and he now has to report to police while doing a special course aimed at erasing his Islamist beliefs, sources said.”
De-radicalization programs have been implemented elsewhere, notably in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia’s deradicalization program is worse than a failure: terror analyst Paul Sperry wrote in the New York Post last November that “counterterrorism experts have long suspected Saudi Arabia’s ‘rehabilitation’ center for terrorists does a poor job of de-radicalizing jihadists. But a Saudi detainee at Guantanamo Bay now reveals it’s actually a recruiting and training factory for jihad.”
...
Relax: Muslim Trucker Who Posted Jihad Material to be “Deradicalized”
In other words, nothing is going to be done to stop him.
April 17, 2017
Robert Spencer
The Italian news site ANSA reported Wednesday that a convert to Islam who calls himself Muhammad Santamato “posted material praising jihad,” and is now, authorities said, to be “deradicalized.” Italian authorities could just as well have said that they weren’t going to do anything to stop Santamato from carrying out a jihad attack, since one of the most obvious but little-noted aspects of the West’s catastrophic response to jihad terror is the abject failure of “deradicalization” programs.
ANSA noted that “Alfredo alias Muhammad Santamato, 42, was flagged as a potential threat, perhaps using his truck to target civilians as in recent attacks in Nice, Berlin, London and Stockholm, police said.” But relax: “his license has been confiscated and he now has to report to police while doing a special course aimed at erasing his Islamist beliefs, sources said.”
De-radicalization programs have been implemented elsewhere, notably in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia’s deradicalization program is worse than a failure: terror analyst Paul Sperry wrote in the New York Post last November that “counterterrorism experts have long suspected Saudi Arabia’s ‘rehabilitation’ center for terrorists does a poor job of de-radicalizing jihadists. But a Saudi detainee at Guantanamo Bay now reveals it’s actually a recruiting and training factory for jihad.”
...
Relax: Muslim Trucker Who Posted Jihad Material to be “Deradicalized”
Mindful
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #153
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
That's what you always say.
You're a fact. Unfortunately, we have to put up with it. And you.
montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
- 18,686
- 2,104
- 280
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
That's what you always say.
You're a fact. Unfortunately, we have to put up with it. And you.
Facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. Unfortunately, there are racists like you that believe the propaganda that we have to put up with.
Mindful
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #155
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
That's what you always say.
You're a fact. Unfortunately, we have to put up with it. And you.
Facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. Unfortunately, there are racists like you that believe the propaganda that we have to put up with.
Ignorant is an understatement to describe that post.
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
That's what you always say.
You're a fact. Unfortunately, we have to put up with it. And you.
Facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. Unfortunately, there are racists like you that believe the propaganda that we have to put up with.
to what "facts" do you allude? Please note: I wrote TO WHAT FACTS do you allude? I did not write What facts do you allude to? ------Have you considered English remediation? Can you tell me what your mother tongue is?
SobieskiSavedEurope
Gold Member
- Banned
- #157
Here's the thing: you see these little pockets of controversy. Up to 1 1/2 years ago I was living in Europe. I lived there for 4 years. I continue to visit if often and spent all of last summer there. What you see in these news bites is not the reality of everyday life. Europe isn't being over run or over taken by militant Islamists or by anti-Semites. To try to put it into perspective: it's like the Tea Party. They may have gotten a lot of media coverage during the election, but, overall, they are not a huge movement and are not having any major effect on the country, the culture, or the government. Most people probably never see them except for on TV. Most people just go about their daily lives as they always have. In Europe, most minorities, one of them being Muslims, are integrating into the culture, as all new immigrants do and always have, with some problems, with some controversy, but, in general, just becoming part of the population of the country. One thing I really despise is tunnel vision.
Some immigrants to the UK make a genuine effort to assimilate themselves and their culture into that of the host nation's. The Poles, for instance, are an almost perfect example of that. OK, they have their little "Polski Shleps", but they work hard, chide each other for not speaking English amongst each other when in the company of their hosts, pay taxes and immerse themselves in the culture.
Muslims do the complete opposite.
They ghettoise the districts they settle in, bring Third World diseases like TB with them, don't learn English, don't pay a penny in tax, loot the benefit/welfare system and build social barriers between themselves and everyone else. And the situation's ten times worse in France than it is in Britain.
Glad to see some Brits with sense, most places on the Internet I've been I've seen a good deal of Brits who are more anti-Polish, than anti-Muslim, or anti-Black.
There's simply no comparison.
Do Poles in the UK commit terrorism, or start feral riots? No.
Poles are one of the most employed ethnicities in the UK, while Muslims, and Blacks are 2 of the least employed ethnicities in the UK.
(While about 1 in 7 Poles in the UK are not working , over 1 in 2 Muslims in the UK are not working, and about 1 in 3 Blacks in the UK are not working)
Poles in the UK make up about 1.2% of the UK prison system, and about 1.7% of the UK.
Blacks in England, and Wales make up about 15% of the prison system, and about 2.7% of the population.
Muslims in the UK make up about 13% of the UK prison system, and about 4.8% of the UK.
Here's the thing: you see these little pockets of controversy. Up to 1 1/2 years ago I was living in Europe. I lived there for 4 years. I continue to visit if often and spent all of last summer there. What you see in these news bites is not the reality of everyday life. Europe isn't being over run or over taken by militant Islamists or by anti-Semites. To try to put it into perspective: it's like the Tea Party. They may have gotten a lot of media coverage during the election, but, overall, they are not a huge movement and are not having any major effect on the country, the culture, or the government. Most people probably never see them except for on TV. Most people just go about their daily lives as they always have. In Europe, most minorities, one of them being Muslims, are integrating into the culture, as all new immigrants do and always have, with some problems, with some controversy, but, in general, just becoming part of the population of the country. One thing I really despise is tunnel vision.
Some immigrants to the UK make a genuine effort to assimilate themselves and their culture into that of the host nation's. The Poles, for instance, are an almost perfect example of that. OK, they have their little "Polski Shleps", but they work hard, chide each other for not speaking English amongst each other when in the company of their hosts, pay taxes and immerse themselves in the culture.
Muslims do the complete opposite.
They ghettoise the districts they settle in, bring Third World diseases like TB with them, don't learn English, don't pay a penny in tax, loot the benefit/welfare system and build social barriers between themselves and everyone else. And the situation's ten times worse in France than it is in Britain.
Glad to see some Brits with sense, most places on the Internet I've been I've seen a good deal of Brits who are more anti-Polish, than anti-Muslim, or anti-Black.
There's simply no comparison.
Do Poles in the UK commit terrorism, or start feral riots? No.
Poles are one of the most employed ethnicities in the UK, while Muslims, and Blacks are 2 of the least employed ethnicities in the UK.
(While about 1 in 7 Poles in the UK are not working , over 1 in 2 Muslims in the UK are not working, and about 1 in 3 Blacks in the UK are not working)
Poles in the UK make up about 1.2% of the UK prison system, and about 1.7% of the UK.
Blacks in England, and Wales make up about 15% of the prison system, and about 2.7% of the population.
Muslims in the UK make up about 13% of the UK prison system, and about 4.8% of the UK.
can you correct your stats to account for the issue of percentage of blacks who are also muslim? --------uhm------I am old----I have forgotten the terminology-----but you know what I mean
montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
- 18,686
- 2,104
- 280
Isn't Judeo-Christian a contradiction in terms? The basic tenet of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God as part of the Holy Trinity. Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
That's what you always say.
You're a fact. Unfortunately, we have to put up with it. And you.
Facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. Unfortunately, there are racists like you that believe the propaganda that we have to put up with.
to what "facts" do you allude? Please note: I wrote TO WHAT FACTS do you allude? I did not write What facts do you allude to? ------Have you considered English remediation? Can you tell me what your mother tongue is?
Now that's funny coming from someone who writes English at the elementary school level. Go back into your hole.
Mindful
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #160
Only to be expected. You bringing your Jew obsession in to every thread going.
Just a fact.
That's what you always say.
You're a fact. Unfortunately, we have to put up with it. And you.
Facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. Unfortunately, there are racists like you that believe the propaganda that we have to put up with.
to what "facts" do you allude? Please note: I wrote TO WHAT FACTS do you allude? I did not write What facts do you allude to? ------Have you considered English remediation? Can you tell me what your mother tongue is?
Now that's funny coming from someone who writes English at the elementary school level. Go back into your hole.
lol.
I've noticed so many individuals on these forums throw out the education thing as an insult.
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