EU to speedup "Enlargement"

[Bleipriester]

The EU wants to expand quickly as a part of the EU´s security policy, intentions demonstrated by the Informal General Affairs ministerial (in Murcia), a monthly meeting of the EU´s foreign ministers, show. According to the new rules, a Second Class EU Membership shall be introduced to bypass the EU´s political and economic requirements. Those memberships are barred from decision making processes, apart from that they work as normal memberships, including EU law, ect. The document also calls for harsher tools for the EU to sanction members and even includes a possible exclusion of a member.


This is no official stuff but it can become official.

Informal General Affairs ministerial meeting discusses the implications of a possible EU enlargement

The European Union´s foreign affairs ministers held an informal ministerial meeting in Murcia to discuss the implications of a possible enlargement of the EU and progress towards Open Strategic Autonomy.

spanish-presidency.consilium.europa.eu

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Зараз у внутрішніх дискусіях в ЄС майбутній вступ України звучить як факт. Але фахівці застерігають від надмірного оптимізму...

www.eurointegration.com.ua

EU paper on the matter:

https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/19/Paper-EU-reform.pdf

 

[ESay]

This plan is viable. Ukraine should catch the opportunity.

 

[Dekster]

Fools and their freedom are soon parted.

 

[Bleipriester]

This plan is viable. Ukraine should catch the opportunity.

I wonder if this is a good idea. As an economy class member, Ukraine would give up on their sovereignty without having a say in the governing body that they transfer sovereignty to. And Ukraine will be sanctioned when they don´t do the demanded reforms and ultimately kicked out. And there is the war and nobody knows how much longer the West will be able to supply arms, while Putin says the Russian factories are running like never before. The war will probably be lost and nobody knows what the remains of Ukraine will look like thereafter, if there are any.

 

[Baron]

The EU wants to expand quickly as a part of the EU´s security policy, i

Not EU, but non-elected corrupted satanic Freemasons who want to put lot of failed corrupt 'states' in and destroy EU

 

[ESay]

I wonder if this is a good idea. As an economy class member, Ukraine would give up on their sovereignty without having a say in the governing body that they transfer sovereignty to. And Ukraine will be sanctioned when they don´t do the demanded reforms and ultimately kicked out. And there is the war and nobody knows how much longer the West will be able to supply arms, while Putin says the Russian factories are running like never before. The war will probably be lost and nobody knows what the remains of Ukraine will look like thereafter, if there are any.

I think it is a good idea. Basically, that is the conditions the EFTA members have, with one significant 'improvement' - the new EU's plan includes formal EU membership. I fully support implementation of the EU's regulations and control over some of Ukraine's economic and financial spheres. Because only in that way notorious Ukrainian corruption and oligarchs can be dealt with.

Also, I doubt that the EU needs another 'flawed democracy' with the veto right and ability to blackmail others for some additional funding. The proposed EU's plan is a compromise and it should be accepted.

About the war. Yes, that is the main question. Here I can only repeat what I have deen saying for more than a year - after successful Kharkiv and Kherson offensive operations, the main Ukraine's goal should be 'strategical defence'. As the current 'counter-offensive' has already showed, in the established realities large ground offensive operations are just wasting of people and resources.

But all that depends on the US. Without them all 'European coalition' will fall apart the next day. But I don't want to indulge in the American internal politics. Let them decide themselves.

 

[Baron]

But all that depends on the US.

According to you the US shall more push Europeans to pay Ukrainian expenses, indeed a great idea

 

[ESay]

According to you the US shall more push Europeans to pay Ukrainian expenses, indeed a great idea

Oh, from all that post you got only one phrase and want me to bait on that? GTFO.

 

[Bleipriester]

I think it is a good idea. Basically, that is the conditions the EFTA members have, with one significant 'improvement' - the new EU's plan includes formal EU membership. I fully support implementation of the EU's regulations and control over some of Ukraine's economic and financial spheres. Because only in that way notorious Ukrainian corruption and oligarchs can be dealt with.

Also, I doubt that the EU needs another 'flawed democracy' with the veto right and ability to blackmail others for some additional funding. The proposed EU's plan is a compromise and it should be accepted.

The EU should stop idealizing immigration and woke stuff then and realize these policies are made by parties that are democratically elected. Then there won´t be problems. Countries also cannot demand "reparations".
And if the EU accepts a country that is in war, will that increase the EU war efforts?

About the war. Yes, that is the main question. Here I can only repeat what I have deen saying for more than a year - after successful Kharkiv and Kherson offensive operations, the main Ukraine's goal should be 'strategical defence'. As the current 'counter-offensive' has already showed, in the established realities large ground offensive operations are just wasting of people and resources.

It was the US that openly insisted on the offensive. I am sure Zelensky was ordered to conduct the offensive and they also told him to end the Bakhmut battle but Zelensky sent untrained draftees to Bakhmut while he was gathering troops for the offensive, instead. After the offensive the Ukrainian military will be depleted and that could come together with replenished Russian forces.

About the war. Yes, that is the main question. Here I But all that depends on the US. Without them all 'European coalition' will fall apart the next day. But I don't want to indulge in the American internal politics. Let them decide themselves.

I doubt Ukraine can be American internal politics, everything there is. There is little I can do about American decisions but if there is war on my continent I need a monthly wartime hardships compensation payment of 3000€.

 

[ESay]

The EU should stop idealizing immigration and woke stuff then and realize these policies are made by parties that are democratically elected. Then there won´t be problems. Countries also cannot demand "reparations".
And if the EU accepts a country that is in war, will that increase the EU war efforts

Don't sure what you mean by the EU war efforts. The EU is an economic bloc, first and foremost; and virtually doesn't have a military component (in some viable form). And I think it shouldn't.

It was the US that openly insisted on the offensive. I am sure Zelensky was ordered to conduct the offensive and they also told him to end the Bakhmut battle but Zelensky sent untrained draftees to Bakhmut while he was gathering troops for the offensive, instead. After the offensive the Ukrainian military will be depleted and that could come together with replenished Russian forces

I don't know, ordered or not. From one side I hear that Zelensky can't do a step without the US 'order'. But then, I hear that the American 'advisors' recommended to leave Bakhmut on the early stages and don't waste troops and hardware on the lost cause (some Ukrainian generals, Zaluzhny among them, told the same). But the Zelensky adm insisted on the defence.

Also, the current counter-offensive. It is rumoured that Zaluzhny and the American 'advisors' recommended to limit the scope of it to a numbered directions. The Zelensky adm insisted on large frontal attacks.

I don't know it is true or not. And don't know what was American 'order' or what Zelensky's initiative.

Yes, the Ukrainian army is and will enter into the winter in a worse shape than it was in the summer. Will the Russians try to catch the opportunity out of that? It may well be.

Though, it is still not really known in what shape the Russian army is and what newly formed military units are capable of. The Russian official propaganda figures can't be taken with all seriousness.

I doubt Ukraine can be American internal politics, everything there is. There is little I can do about American decisions but if there is war on my continent I need a monthly wartime hardships compensation payment of 3000€

Okay, why not 10 000? If you now want to start these rants about 'provoked' Russia that only 'defends' itself, then I propose to stop right here.

 

[Bleipriester]

Don't sure what you mean by the EU war efforts. The EU is an economic bloc, first and foremost; and virtually doesn't have a military component (in some viable form). And I think it shouldn't.

The EU is way more than an economic bloc. The EU provides the major share of the legislation, thus it is an actual state. The EU self-assumes a military role and here is its definition:
"To the degree that the EU has a military role, this will mainly involve strengthening partners and carrying out small-scale military operations."

So there surely is some EU law on war. Ukraine would not be a partner, but a member.

I don't know, ordered or not. From one side I hear that Zelensky can't do a step without the US 'order'. But then, I hear that the American 'advisors' recommended to leave Bakhmut on the early stages and don't waste troops and hardware on the lost cause (some Ukrainian generals, Zaluzhny among them, told the same). But the Zelensky adm insisted on the defence.

It shows that Zelensky has plenty of rope, even doesn´t have to inform the Americans on how the US arms are being used. Zelensky is about arms and refused to mount the offensive: While the US wanted this offensive, Zelensky used this fact to demand more arms delaying the offensive.

Also, the current counter-offensive. It is rumoured that Zaluzhny and the American 'advisors' recommended to limit the scope of it to a numbered directions. The Zelensky adm insisted on large frontal attacks.

Zelensky is insisting on the strategic importance of Bakhmut. He also declared Bakhmut a fortress, a term the German leadership used for cities that cannot be surrendered under any conditions in WWII. So he is going for Bakhmut and the south as I expected.

I don't know it is true or not. And don't know what was American 'order' or what Zelensky's initiative.

The Americans don´t control Zelensky, but they want results.

Yes, the Ukrainian army is and will enter into the winter in a worse shape than it was in the summer. Will the Russians try to catch the opportunity out of that? It may well be.

Though, it is still not really known in what shape the Russian army is and what newly formed military units are capable of. The Russian official propaganda figures can't be taken with all seriousness.

We will see. If they are really now series producing all the newly developed stuff as Putin said earlier during the war, the war might change soon.

Okay, why not 10 000? If you now want to start these rants about 'provoked' Russia that only 'defends' itself, then I propose to stop right here.

If they need it, I need it too, right? And the best? The payments will not end, will come forever!

 

[Litwin]

EU

The world is getting smaller for the autocrat in the Kremlin .

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The EU should be very careful lettting backward coubtries in who dont share western european values. Polaand and Hungary come to mind.

 

[Fueri]

The EU should be very careful lettting backward coubtries in who dont share western european values. Polaand and Hungary come to mind.

Bigot

 

[ESay]

So there surely is some EU law on war. Ukraine would not be a partner, but a member

It will take years, anyway. Some European officials talk about 2030. But there is no definite time span. It may well be 2035 or 2040 or..

Zelensky is insisting on the strategic importance of Bakhmut. He also declared Bakhmut a fortress, a term the German leadership used for cities that cannot be surrendered under any conditions in WWII. So he is going for Bakhmut and the south as I expected

Basically, I can understand the logic of defending Bakhmut. Had Bakhmut been 'left', the Russians could get access to Sloviansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration.

The Americans don´t control Zelensky, but they want results

Yes, the West partners wanted results. Ironically, at the beginning they offered a 'ride' and evacuated their embassies because Ukraine's resistance was expected to last some weeks at best.

Now they expected Ukraine to militarily beat the Russians and drive them off. A 180 degrees turn in slight more than a year.

Or maybe all that was the other way around. It was the Zelensky adm who wanted to show results and persuaded to send more arms.

We will see. If they are really now series producing all the newly developed stuff as Putin said earlier during the war, the war might change soon

Maybe. Or may be not. The Russians are well known for their propaganda that has little to do with reality.

If they need it, I need it too, right? And the best? The payments will not end, will come forever

I don't read German.

 

[Bleipriester]

Or maybe all that was the other way around. It was the Zelensky adm who wanted to show results and persuaded to send more arms.

Zelensky cancelled the offensive, citing lack of arms and ammunition.

Maybe. Or may be not. The Russians are well known for their propaganda that has little to do with reality.

I think there is something to it. I just don´t know the scale.

I don't read German.

The government (Chancellor + Ministers) increased their salary by 3000€ as a result of the inflation caused by the government. According to this logic a roofer who leaves the roof with fewer pantiles than were there when he arrived needs to be paid better too.