Sigh . . . . I don't think we are going to agree on this, as you went into this with the attitude of "debunking" the whole thing. Eh? You didn't even watching the whole thing, you went in to cherry pick segments, as such, you just do not comprehend the big picture, so really, I don't see much point in refuting any of what you say, b/c you are living in a fantasy land.
Your belief is that compulsory education is necessary and good, for everyone, and should be imposed, upon everyone. I'm not saying that college isn't right for some, maybe it is. Maybe it is right for the dull of imagination. Maybe it is right for those that aren't self-starters. Maybe it is right of those who need to be told what to do. But for those in whose veins runs the spirit of American entrepreneurship and the dreams of success, not being a slave to others, it just might not be right. Sometimes there are other paths to success.
On the other hand, I will give you, that if you want to be a successful slave, a wage slave, college is great. But if you really want to be successful, and have a free mind, if you are really driven. . . Nothing can hold you back, that is the point. Schooling is typically only a hindrance. Self-starters get what education they need, and pieces of paper only when foolish people demand them.
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College
"1. Steve Jobs
<snip>
2. Richard Branson
<snip>
3. Dave Thomas
<snip>
4. David Green
<snip>
5. Larry Ellison
<snip>
6. Kevin Rose
<snip>
7. Michael Dell
<snip>
8. Rachael Ray
<snip>
Final thoughts
The moral of the story? A driven personality always finds a way. An education can either be a stepping stone or a road block on the path to achievement. If education proves to be an obstacle, those with an entrepreneurial spirit will push it aside and go their own chosen route.
Today, in the information age, there are many ways to learn and develop the skills you need to become a successful entrepreneur. Homeschooling may be a worthwhile option for many, especially if you have the desire to learn at your own pace, or if you have kids that are ambitious and independent thinkers."
(Just a few excerpts)
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
Top 100 Entrepreneurs Who Made Millions Without A College Degree
"Abraham Lincoln, lawyer, U.S. president. Finished one year of formal schooling, self-taught himself trigonometry, and read Blackstone on his own to become a lawyer.
Andrew Jackson, U.S. president, general, attorney, judge, congressman. Home-schooled. Became a practicing attorney by the age of 35 – without a formal education.
Benjamin Franklin, inventor, scientist, author, entrepreneur. Primarily home-schooled.
Debbi Fields, founder of Mrs. Fields Chocolate Chippery. Later renamed, franchised, then sold Mrs. Field’s Cookies.
Frank Lloyd Wright, the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Never attended high school.
George Eastman, multimillionaire inventor, Kodak founder. Dropped out of high school.
H. Wayne Huizenga, founder of WMX garbage company, helped build Blockbuster video chain. Joined the Army out of high school, and later went to college only to drop out during his first year.
James Cameron, Oscar-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Dropped out of college.
Kemmons Wilson, multimillionaire, founder of Holiday Inn. High school dropout.
Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s. Dropped out of high school.
Rush Limbaugh, multi-millionaire media mogul, radio talk show host. Dropped out of college.
Thomas Edison, inventor of the light bulb, phonograph, and more. Primarily home-schooled, then joined the railroad when he was only 12.
W. Clement Stone, multimillionaire insurance man, author, founder of Success magazine. Dropped out of elementary school. Later attended high school, graduating. Attended but did not finish college.
Walt Disney, founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16."
Less than two dozen people and most over a hundred years ago.
And no one teaches themselves trigonometry unless someone else taught them math previously.
I wonder how many of those people started out earning their money the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and John McCain?
Anyone who says education is not needed is both delusional and insane.
Self taught is still taught. And I have never met a "self taught" person who was actually self taught. They got their foundation from someone. Someone showed them what the letter "a" is and how it's followed by "b". No one "just knows".
I love the example of Steve Jobs. Did he actually design the first Apple or was it designed by Steve Wozniak, Bill Fernandez, people who had technical educations and worked at companies like Hewlett-Packard?
Jobs was a good salesman who relied on other people's degrees. Oop! Who knew?
TY for saying that. You hit the key themes of what was to be Part II of my response to
MisterBeale's post.
Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point. Dolts, both of you. Jobs, Wozniak, and Fernandez, that is what I am getting at. For true success, University is just an illusion.
Self-taught might be still taught, but that is not what we are discussing, we are discussing college and University. I am not arguing against being educated, I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed, which clearly, some folks in this thread are.
You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable, it isn't. KSA's and experience that make them valuable.
There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.
This discussion with you is boring me now. Not because the topic in the abstract is dull, for it is not. No, I'm bored with this discussion because despite my having indulged you enough to watch that so-called documentary and read your "points," you're not having a discussion with me; you're "talking" at me and
barraging me with the same f*cking remarks. You're, in other words, delivering one soliloquy of unsubstantiated conclusions after another that, apparently, you think will by repetition gain merit. To wit...
During this contretemps, I've quoted multiple specific premises (providing timestamp references to the claims in the video) presented in the video you posted as a surrogate for your own prose expressing your ideas, and I provided empirically clear evidence that repeatedly the notions expressed in the video are founded on specious information/perceptions. Among those specious premises and implied premises are:
I've with verifiably irrefutable data/evidence and sound analysis of that evidence addressed each of the above noted premises and intermediate conclusions presented in the video you posted, whereas you've, in contrast, not offered a single specific refutation of any of the facts I presented that show the porosity of the video's, thus your, claims/conclusions. Neither have you instead allowed that the video's principal conclusions, thus yours that to theirs map, rest on untruths the NIA spun into a porcine fable "which artificed olive lips hath thee kissed afore by thine own squeals thou'st petard hoist."
Previously Unaddressed-by-me Element Invalidating Another of the the Video's Claims:
Hyperinflation
There's the matter of the video's/NIA's inflammatory claim about hyperinflation, all the while presuming viewers know what hyperinflation is.
The video claims the increase in tuition prices and its attendant increase in student loan debt, the average sum of which they put at $24K and declare is the equivalent of a home mortgage, will produce hyperinflation in the U.S.
- Did they present an accepted/tested model (equation) that supports their claim? No.
- Did they present the title and author of a credible peer reviewed and published econometric modeling study that mirrors, thus supports, their cause-effect propositions? No.
- Did they, by inferential comparison to other nations having experienced hyperinflation, inductively arrive at the conclusion that the U.S. will face the same outcome, hyperinflation? No.
The fact is that one does not need a degree in economics to see the video did none of those thing, or anything else to support its claim about hyperinflation.
As though that weren't enough, you bid us (strictly, young people, but who the hell would recommend to someone else a video they haven't watched) to watch and think carefully about the points made in an hour-long video. For as long as my posts have been, something that occasionally people gripe about,
not one has ever come close to having a one-hour estimated reading time. (And one cannot watch a video faster than the video plays.)
Oh, and also there is this:
Wozniak never finished college, and Fernandez never went. You both prove MY point.
In a nation comprised of hundreds of millions of individuals, that two, two hundred or even 20K individuals have achieved on the scale that Wozniak and Fernandez did illustrates only that the exceptional is possible. Although it's nice to know that and mildly encouraging to see, nobody ever thought or so much as implied that such be not possible.
It takes neither great acumen nor prudence to know that for every "rule" there are exceptions. It takes some sagacity to know whether to expect one will be or is exceptional, be so to the good or not. And it takes sagacity, ability, acumen and more to be exceptional. Add innovativeness to that set of qualities, and one will rise to the pinnacle of economic success. People like the several super-successful ones you specified have all of those qualities and were, no matter what path upon which they embarked, would have reached extreme financial success.
I should probably here say that it seems by the tenor of your remarks and examples that for you, one is successful only if one pursues a "maverick" path that leads to billionaire-grade riches. While the maverick's way is one way to success, for most people, it's a far riskier way. There's nothing wrong with taking the riskier approach. Regardless of the approach one takes, one must also assume the risk accompanying it.
I am arguing about the necessary need of being indoctrinated and brainwashed
Well, with whom do you think you are arguing? Perhaps you should introduce us to your imaginary friend with whom you're having that conversation.
Neither I nor anybody I know or know of, not even brainwashers like Jim Jones and Kim Jung Un, has ever argued that there is a need for being "indoctrinated and brainwashed." And you've not even come close to proving that anyone has been "indoctrinated and brainwashed." The closest you've gotten to it is making the empty and unsubstantiated claim quoted just above.
You are under the illusion that it is pieces of paper, diplomas, degrees and certificates that make folks economically viable,
No, I'm not.
There again you've conjured some sh*t in your mind and ascribed it to me.
KSA's and experience that make them valuable.
I agree with that statement.
There is a difference between education and schooling. Learn that difference. A person needs education, they do not need schooling.
Whatever education and/or schooling you've obtained was obviously insufficient to provide you with the KSAs needed to recognize the myriad insufficiencies I in the first part of this post pointed out about that video. Accordingly, one sees that whatever approach you used needs modifying.
