End corporate welfare!

[Big Fitz]

Also, once again, libs are running like hell to get away from the challenge to end ALL welfare.

Must mean that it's only a political ploy to enrich their allies while impoverishing their enemies.

Didn't see THAT coming... did we?

"libs" aren't, "running like hell to get away from the challenge to end ALL welfare". Your continued hyperbole is untruthful and unhelpful as well as a sign of simplistic thinking (maybe I give you too much credit by using the word "thinking"; bombastic emoting is more apt).

* Not all "libs" hold the same opinions

* Welfare is now known as Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF)

* Not all recipients of TANF are lazy, bums, etc.

* No one gets rich receiving TANF

* 'Workfare' makes sense; as did the old CETA program (Comprehensive Employment & Training Act).

* The New Right, of which I suspect you are a member, aka a callous conservative, are generally simplistiic concrete thinkers (again that word); problem solving is limited by an ideology which vitiates pragmatic solutions for plans which have a negative affect on others.

"libs" aren't, "running like hell to get away from the challenge to end ALL welfare". Your continued hyperbole is untruthful and unhelpful as well as a sign of simplistic thinking (maybe I give you too much credit by using the word "thinking"; bombastic emoting is more apt).

So I can quote you now as saying that we must all end all public assistance? Or are you going to run away and play semantic games?

ooh ooh ooh! You're a THIIIIIIIINKERRRRRR... Not like us dumb cretinous Pleistocene creatures known as libertarians or conservatives bumbling through reality fucking up your nuanced lives.

Spare me you elitist git. All I see is you squirming to get out of the vice which is a simple yes/no answer.

Do you or do you not agree that ALL welfare should be ended. Now I suppose I should add "Regardless of terminology it may be called or discrimination used to apply it".

 

[Big Fitz]

* Welfare is now known as Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF)

Thank you, George Orwell.

* The New Right, of which I suspect you are a member, aka a callous conservative, are generally simplistiic concrete thinkers (again that word); problem solving is limited by an ideology which vitiates pragmatic solutions for plans which have a negative affect on others.

No, the vast bulk of us reject the notion of state aggression and expropriation, enabled and approved of by self-righteous do-gooder jackasses like you, as "compassion".

mmmmmm... doublethink goodnesss.... gaaaahhhhhh...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's what I find amusing Wry Catcher...

Conservatives have the absolute Gall to call Progressives "elitists", when our values are very much about helping those in need, while there's are an ever-expanding mantra of "Why should I have to pay!!!"

Who are the real elitists in this country?

How much time do you spend every week helping those in need? Why do you think paying taxes counts as helping anyone?

 

[Big Fitz]

An adult can get welfare for abot 2-4 years. However, if this adult is a woman with a newborn, she will get money for the next 18 years. If she has 3 more kids, she will get more money and keep getting money untill the youngest is 18. This does not keep her from getting knocked up again and again, to literally stay on welfare all her productive life.

TANF is a bold face lie

Wrong. Wrong because of ignorance or intention to mislead, that becomes the question.

TANF is a Federal Program which allows the several states to implement welfare reform within the parameters established by the Congress. Google TANF and/or Health and Human Services/Administration for Children and Families.

Then explain to me how my ex can be on welfare for the last 7 years.

Simple. She isn't. What you're seeing isn't happening. Your lying eyes are deceiving you because you're not nuanced enough.

 

[Steelplate]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

 

[Steelplate]

How much time do you spend every week helping those in need? Why do you think paying taxes counts as helping anyone?

Every week? Well... much like most of us... a weekly number isn't really practical, is it?

I will say this... I work with the American Red Cross and Habitat for Humanity.... and my career choice is working with the Developmentally Disabled. I don't make a whole lot of money doing it(about $30K+, for 22 years of service), but I love my job.

Do I think paying taxes count? Well.. I guess that all depends on policy, doesn't it? If it were up to you guys... the only thing that my taxes would for is... military spending, right? I bet Lockheed-Martin loves you very much.... and Haliburton.

But if my tax dollars were to go to those less fortunate? yeah.. it counts somewhat... not as much as the TIME I spend... but it does count.

 

[Mr Liberty]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

So-- you think we should all be happy living in the collective. No, I like being an individual. I don't like you supporting this nation of looters and moochers. What exactly have the rich taken from you? Nothing. The government takes it, no one else. How much do you pay the government in taxes? Now, how much did you pay the rich?

 

[Big Fitz]

That's what I find amusing Wry Catcher...

Conservatives have the absolute Gall to call Progressives "elitists", when our values are very much about helping those in need, while there's are an ever-expanding mantra of "Why should I have to pay!!!"

Who are the real elitists in this country?

How much time do you spend every week helping those in need? Why do you think paying taxes counts as helping anyone?

probably thinks he did his part by paying taxes. Now it's up to other people to act on his abdicated moral responsibility he's so convicted of.

 

[Big Fitz]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Who the fuck said you have a RIGHT to my property, Useful Idiot?

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

And who is it that decides we have no choice in the matter? And what are you going to do about it if we refuse? Oh that's right, imprison or kill like all you little Commie fucks.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

Brain tumor much?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

Wow... you're nuts. I mean seriously. Seek therapy soon.

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

An elitist is one who thinks himself better than other people and therefore should be above any rules and a law unto them self. Apparently you've lost control of the language and are now a slave to your own inability to comprehend it.

Those the gods wish to destroy, first they drive mad. That being the case, y'all are in deep shit.

 

[Big Fitz]

How much time do you spend every week helping those in need? Why do you think paying taxes counts as helping anyone?

Every week? Well... much like most of us... a weekly number isn't really practical, is it?

I will say this... I work with the American Red Cross and Habitat for Humanity.... and my career choice is working with the Developmentally Disabled. I don't make a whole lot of money doing it(about $30K+, for 22 years of service), but I love my job.

Do I think paying taxes count? Well.. I guess that all depends on policy, doesn't it? If it were up to you guys... the only thing that my taxes would for is... military spending, right? I bet Lockheed-Martin loves you very much.... and Haliburton.

But if my tax dollars were to go to those less fortunate? yeah.. it counts somewhat... not as much as the TIME I spend... but it does count.

Ding! Right there. Conflict of interest. Taxes stop flowing, he stops getting. It's not about compassion for the poor, it's about a paycheck for him and his kind.

 

[Oddball]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

Who are you to twist my arm and wave a gun in my face in the name of "community"?

Who are you to say that your "community" strawman is superior to any one of the individuals who gets mugged in the name of that mythical entity?

You're too stupid to be an elitist...You're a common crook, who hasn't the guts to rob me face-to-face, dickweed.

 

[Big Fitz]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

Who are you to twist my arm and wave a gun in my face in the name of "community"?

Who are you to say that your "community" strawman is superior to any one of the individuals who gets mugged in the name of that mythical entity?

You're too stupid top be an elitist...You're a common crook, who hasn't the guts to rob me face-to-face, dickweed.

If he's in MN and does that on your property, you can shoot him.

Just being helpful.

 

[bripat9643]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Even if they don't give to charity, how does that give anyone license to point a gun at them and take the money by force? What principle of ethics says the majority can compel the minority to contribute to any cause, no matter how "worthy?"

Theft is theft.

 

[editec]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Even if they don't give to charity, how does that give anyone license to point a gun at them and take the money by force? What principle of ethics says the majority can compel the minority to contribute to any cause, no matter how "worthy?"

Theft is theft.

It's part of the SOCIAL CONTRACT, Bri.

Basically your complaint seems to be that every society is THEFT.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This what I find so amusing about Fabian socialist/progressive pinko dickweeds...They presume that just because some people are against being coerced into gubmint-run "charity", that they're against giving as a matter of course.

FYI, dickweed, the question isn't "Why should I have to pay?", but "Who the fuck are you to decide which charity is worthy of my forced support and which isn't?"......Elitist dickweed.

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

So-- you think we should all be happy living in the collective. No, I like being an individual. I don't like you supporting this nation of looters and moochers. What exactly have the rich taken from you? Nothing. The government takes it, no one else. How much do you pay the government in taxes? Now, how much did you pay the rich?

Most "government money" goes into the pockets of the rich.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cSSv2LU_A&feature=related]YouTube - Greg Palast Tells How The IMF Set-Up Iceland & Greece on Alex Jones Tv 1/2[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWf0cBCq_M&feature=related]YouTube - Greg Palast Tells How The IMF Set-Up Iceland & Greece on Alex Jones Tv 2/2[/ame]

 

[DiamondDave]

How much time do you spend every week helping those in need? Why do you think paying taxes counts as helping anyone?

Every week? Well... much like most of us... a weekly number isn't really practical, is it?

I will say this... I work with the American Red Cross and Habitat for Humanity.... and my career choice is working with the Developmentally Disabled. I don't make a whole lot of money doing it(about $30K+, for 22 years of service), but I love my job.

Do I think paying taxes count? Well.. I guess that all depends on policy, doesn't it? If it were up to you guys... the only thing that my taxes would for is... military spending, right? I bet Lockheed-Martin loves you very much.... and Haliburton.

But if my tax dollars were to go to those less fortunate? yeah.. it counts somewhat... not as much as the TIME I spend... but it does count.

No... what taxes should go for are the SPECIFIC things laid out as federal responsibility in the constitution.... and no, being your mommy to give you an allowance or kiss your personal boo-boos is not a constitutional responsibility

It does not count as YOUR generosity or support when you simply vote or support policies that take from others to do your 'charity' for you

See.. you have the freedom and choice to do the job you wish... even if it does not make you a fortune.. and I am happy you choose something you like to do... but everyone has that choice.. to do as they see fit... and if that choice of theirs is to do nothing, well, they get to live by those consequences... if that choice is not to advance themselves and work in a job that has no real future, well, they get to live by those consequences... you have the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed... and it's nobody's responsibility but their own...

Now.. I am ALL for people who give voluntarily of themselves thru monetary or other donation methods.... of their own free will... I applaud others who do that all the time... and I personally give to a number of charitable organizations that mean something to me... but I will ALWAYS be against forced redistribution and forced charity by our government

 

[Big Fitz]

It's part of the SOCIAL CONTRACT, Bri.

Can you produce this social contract and point to the clause that says do-gooders, through the power of government force have the right to steal my property to give to those they see fit?

Of course this proves the point you guys aren't against welfare... just corporations.

You SHOULD be against welfare, and let the chips fall where they may. After all, corporations, thanks to free trade are being forced to compete against unfair international competition that includes subsidized and state industry, unfair tariffs and other impediments to foreign markets. Oh the poor poor corporations need tax money to offset the losses they are suffering due to this unfair competition.

Yes I'm making fun of you.

The hypocrisy is stunning.

 

[Big Fitz]

Who the fuck are you to decide to withdraw support to American Citizens?... bigoted dickweed.

Like it or not, our country is a community. The weakest of our community is not something that YOU get to decide whether they are worthy of your help.

Because, after all... maybe "Peter Poverty" let's their dog shit on your lawn. If you got to decide... or even your locality... you could create a crusade against Peter, couldn't you? When you back it off a few steps... those allegations and incrimination aren't so likely to appear, are they?

BTW... fuck you and your "elitist" codeword from Limbaugh. I've spent enough time in my car to recognize his bullshit anywhere. But just to satisfy your totally fucked up mind..... let me see... "elitist" is someone that wants to help others less fortunate. But "Patriot" is someone who wants to help the wealthy attain every ounce of profit that they can?

I guess if those are the definitions.... Call me an "elitist" all you want.

So-- you think we should all be happy living in the collective. No, I like being an individual. I don't like you supporting this nation of looters and moochers. What exactly have the rich taken from you? Nothing. The government takes it, no one else. How much do you pay the government in taxes? Now, how much did you pay the rich?

Most "government money" goes into the pockets of the rich.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cSSv2LU_A&feature=related]YouTube - Greg Palast Tells How The IMF Set-Up Iceland & Greece on Alex Jones Tv 1/2[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWf0cBCq_M&feature=related]YouTube - Greg Palast Tells How The IMF Set-Up Iceland & Greece on Alex Jones Tv 2/2[/ame]

Yes? and? I'm saying end ALL welfare. Please. I will be fine with ending corporate welfare. Why can't you admit your own premise that welfare at all levels is wrong?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So-- you think we should all be happy living in the collective. No, I like being an individual. I don't like you supporting this nation of looters and moochers. What exactly have the rich taken from you? Nothing. The government takes it, no one else. How much do you pay the government in taxes? Now, how much did you pay the rich?

Most "government money" goes into the pockets of the rich.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cSSv2LU_A&feature=related]YouTube - Greg Palast Tells How The IMF Set-Up Iceland & Greece on Alex Jones Tv 1/2[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWf0cBCq_M&feature=related]YouTube - Greg Palast Tells How The IMF Set-Up Iceland & Greece on Alex Jones Tv 2/2[/ame]

Yes? and? I'm saying end ALL welfare. Please. I will be fine with ending corporate welfare. Why can't you admit your own premise that welfare at all levels is wrong?

The problem with ending welfare for the people is that those expenses will not just go away. They will be shifted to other parts of the economy probably at a higher cost.

Automatic stabilizers are features of the tax and transfer systems that tend by their design to offset fluctuations in economic activity without direct intervention by policymakers. When incomes are high, tax liabilities rise and eligibility for government benefits falls, without any change in the tax code or other legislation. Conversely, when incomes slip, tax liabilities drop and more families become eligible for government transfer programs, such as food stamps and unemployment insurance, that help buttress their income.

Automatic stabilizers are quantitatively important at the federal level. A 2000 study estimated that reduced income and payroll tax collection offsets about 8 percent of any decline in GDP. Additional stabilization from unemployment insurance, although smaller in total magnitude than that from the tax system, is estimated to be eight times as effective per dollar of lost revenue because more of the money is spent rather than saved.

How do automatic stabilizers work?

The problem arises when incomes fluctuate down due to bad government policies. If those policies are not corrected the temporary transfers become permanent. We need to address those policies then the transfers will be reduced.

 

[editec]

It's part of the SOCIAL CONTRACT, Bri.

Can you produce this social contract and point to the clause that says do-gooders, through the power of government force have the right to steal my property to give to those they see fit?

Sure. BF, no problem.

The social contract we live under is called the Consitutuion of the United States of America, and all the laws which flow from that founding document.

We modify this social contract every time we change a law or policy.

Of course this proves the point you guys aren't against welfare... just corporations.

Not a clue what "this" in the above is referring to.

This debate, you mean?

This debate we're having is precisely about us proposing various changes in the social contract.