Employed, Unemployed and Uninsured.

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by LilOlLady, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. LilOlLady
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    LilOlLady Gold Member

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    Employed, Unemployed and Uninsured.

    How do the GOP plan to help those millions of Americans who are employed, unemployed and uninsured after they repeal or defund Obamacare? Obamacare is already helping millions of Americans.

    Some had healthcare, but became unemployed and could not afford COBRA. Some who are employed, has healthcare and cannot afford to use it because of co-pays and deduction.

    Case scenario; A woman with two children, quit her $40,000 job with no healthcare after 11 years to take a job at Starbucks because of the healthcare insurance they offer. One child is in college full time and will graduate in 2012 instead of 2013. She is now earning less, receiving food stamps, energy assistance, paying her mortgage and doing well. She was covered by her ex-husband until he was laid off twice in the last 4 years. She made the decision when her daughter needed a MRI and could not afford the co-pay or her ex’s insurance would not pay for it. If she becomes unemployed she will be without healthcare. Americans should not have to live with this kind of fear. This kind of fear forces people on welfare. Poor but safe.

    Americans need Obamacare even if it is not perfect. Nothing is perfect. This woman is just one example of millions of Americans who need healthcare or have healthcare and cannot afford to use it or afford to buy it at all.

    Medicare and Medicaid is not perfect but it is providing healthcare for millions of Americans.

    GOP’s plan for healthcare to replace Obamacare if for people to “buy” “private healthcare” across state lines?” What part of “can’t afford healthcare” do they not understand?
    They refuse to acknowledge the fact that we have poor people in this country of no fault of their own.
     
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  2. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Republicans do not care about Americans except in slogans. Slogans work well as the last election proved. It could be that all Americans don't care about Americans, well I guess that is true in the obvious sense. We are the only Christian nation, a nation that assumes a mantle of holiness, but is unholy. The golden rule is the one slogan republicans forget completely.

    Moral budget: http://bigthink.com/ideas/37915

    "Not only does there seem to be widespread social fragmentation and disillusionment with democracy in the United States, but the possibility of reversing this sense of alienation appears to many of us to be already lost. Any democratic president who wants to institute the desperately needed reforms in health, welfare and the environment faces one of two options. He can stick by his reform program and suffer a loss of public confidence through orchestrated campaigns to publicly portray him as 'too liberal' and ineffectual (the Carter image) or too indecisive or sexually indiscreet (the Clinton image). Alternatively, a reforming democratic president can move further to the Right, forget his promises and become part of the propaganda campaign. Given the history of democratic propaganda in the United States, some of us doubt that another Roosevelt or New Deal is possible. The political system is now so attuned to business interests that this kind of reformer could no longer institute the substantial health, welfare, education, environmental and employment reforms the country needs." Andrew Lohrey, Introduction, Alex Carey "Taking the Risk Out of Democracy"
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  3. Lovebears65
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    Lovebears65 Gold Member

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    I am not against Healthcare reform but I am against how it was shoved down our throats and its mandatory. They should not be allowed to force us to have healthcare PERIOD. People say they make us have car insurance. Not true. You dont have to drive or own a car its an option !!! I am all for everyone having an chance to have healthcare my problem is how they went around doing it!!
     
  4. RDD_1210
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    RDD_1210 Forms his own opinions

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    I've tried presenting scenarios such as this one other times on this site. One of three things happens in response

    1) They ignore it
    2) They tell me that these types of scenarios are "unrealistic"
    3) I get responses that involve ridiculous solutions including "ideas" such as declaring bankruptcy and using power of attorney. :confused: (See signature)

    These people don't have real world solutions that would work in our society today. They have broad stroke talking points and hypocrisy.

    Good luck getting an intelligent answer to your scenario.
     
  5. hboats
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    hboats Silver Member

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    I've got a couple of questions about your case scenario. How much does this woman make now at Starbucks? What is her yearly income? What was her $40,000 a year job that she quit because they didn't offer health insurance? Did, in fact, the previous job not offer health insurance? Or did she CHOOSE not to take advantage of their health insurance? Because there is a difference.

    And since when is someone who can afford to pay a mortgage on a house considered "poor?"

    What are we going to mandate next? What are the taxpayers going to be billed for? I get it, there are sob stories out there about people who can't afford health insurance. There are also sob stories out there about people who can't afford to buy a house. Is government going to make it mandatory that everyone gets to be a homeowner next? Or should we start small? Should the government mandate that every person needs to have a car. I got it, let's mandate that every person of 18 should have a Chevy Volt. That way we can help out with global warming and at the same time help those less fortunate people who may not be able to afford to drive an electric car.

    Where do we stop? What's going to be mandated by our government next?

    Rick
     
  6. hortysir
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    hortysir In Memorial of 47

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    Where is it my government's job to provide anyone with health care, much less require it?
     
  7. RDD_1210
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    RDD_1210 Forms his own opinions

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    Two documents called the Declaration and Constitution.
     
  8. hboats
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    hboats Silver Member

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    Those two documents say that every American should be forced to purchase health insurance even if they don't want it? Really? Please point out to me exactly where it says that in those two documents.

    And why stop there, couldn't you also argue then that it is in every American's best interest to own a computer? A car? A home? Let's just mandate all of those as well.

    Rick
     
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  9. RDD_1210
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    RDD_1210 Forms his own opinions

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    So are we going with the "it must explicitly state everything in the constitution" argument today? If so, let's discuss the Air Force and Nuclear weapons.

    Why take everything to an extreme? Where have I or anyone argued that every american is entitled to owning a home or a computer? You can be rational without taking things to the extreme with your "what if" scenarios. Nothing is more important then your health and thats the only reason I support ensuring all citizens can get all the healthcare that they need.
     
  10. hboats
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    hboats Silver Member

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    If you can show me where I've said anything different you can use this argument. I'll wait for you to find it.

    I'd be willing to bet you a large sum of money that if you'd said 30 years ago that the government would mandate health insurance a vast majority of the population would have said, "Why take everything to an extreme?"

    I'm not taking anything to an extreme, I'm merely asking a question. And the question is, if we start mandating things that all Americans must purchase, where does it stop? I know you'll say "of course, it stops with health insurance." But we're setting a precedent here. And as you know once a precedent is set it opens the door for other things to follow.

    So, tell me, exactly where do we stop?

    In a town in Maine the school district is supplying every kindergartner with a $500 I pad. How long do you think it'll be before it's mandated that every student should start school with an I pad? I don't think it's a far jump, when we start mandating that every American should have a certain thing, that other larger things will follow.

    I'd like to know where we stop. It's a serious question.

    Rick
     

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