Employed, Unemployed and Uninsured.

[hboats]

There is a big difference between bare minimum basic care designed to stabilize and quality care. You can call it rhetoric or whatever you want but when people are being denied life saving procedures or being dropped from their insurance when they become ill or go bankrupt even when they DO have insurance...that tells you the system is broken. Your argument that requiring people to buy health insurance is setting some sort of dangerous precedent is ridiculous. The danger is now, we are living it and not doing anything will cause WAY more harm then anything you could possibly be scared of that *might* come one day down the road.

Do you have health insurance? Would you go without it if given the choice?

Again, rhetoric. If you go to a county hospital without insurance, you will get the same life saving techniques used as the person in the next room with insurance.

Do I have insurance? Yes, I currently do have insurance. Have I always had insurance? Absolutely not. And it was my choice at the time. Could I have afforded it? Not always, but I didn't think it was the problem of anyone else to provide it for me.

And yes, when I was without insurance I had health problems.

Guess what? I found out that even if you don't go to a county hospital, if you go to a regular hospital without health insurance, they will still treat you. And I got a bill. Do you know what I did? I didn't go crying to anyone else about how it's so unfair that I got a bill from a hospital. I contacted the hospital and said "I can't pay this bill right now, but to show you that I have every intention of paying it I'll send you $50 a month until either it is paid off or until I can afford to pay more." They told me thanks for letting them know and they let me pay off my bill as slowly as I needed to pay it off.

I'd be willing to bet that if you did the same thing at most health facilities they would give the same reaction. Hospitals don't like sending customers to collectors, but when customers don't contact them in good faith what choice do they have? If I'd just not made a payment and not contacted the hospital, my bill would have gone to collections. But, since I made a reasonable attempt to pay off what I owed, it didn't.

Rick

And what if when you had no insurance you suffered a heart attack, or found out you had cancer? Still going to pay that off at $50 a month? How long will that take? There is no way you would be able to afford those bills, but does that mean you should be denied the care you need? Of course not. Hospitals may 'work' with you, but that doesn't mean they just eat that cost. That money that you can't pay gets passed on to the rest of us through higher costs for our care. It's a vicious cycle that has nothing to do with rhetoric and everything to do with what faces millions and millions of americans every year.

You're making an incorrect assumption that what I went through when I was without insurance was minor. It wasn't, unless of course you consider going blind to be minor. I had major eye surgery. Do you have any idea how much that costs? Probably not. And yes, it was a huge bill. And yes, the hospital was glad to have whatever I could afford to pay towards paying off my bill. Eventually it got paid off.

Needless to say, the hospital got what it was owed. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about if you haven't been there, and I have. I know from experience that without insurance you won't be denied health care. I also know from experience that if you can't afford to pay your whole bill immediately that most hospitals will work with you as long as you make a good faith effort and pay even a small amount toward your bill.

Guess what, it didn't even effect my credit rating, because the hospital didn't turn it in to collections because I paid what I could. And for a time what I could afford to pay was as little as $10 a month.

Rick

 

[RDD_1210]

Again, rhetoric. If you go to a county hospital without insurance, you will get the same life saving techniques used as the person in the next room with insurance.

Do I have insurance? Yes, I currently do have insurance. Have I always had insurance? Absolutely not. And it was my choice at the time. Could I have afforded it? Not always, but I didn't think it was the problem of anyone else to provide it for me.

And yes, when I was without insurance I had health problems.

Guess what? I found out that even if you don't go to a county hospital, if you go to a regular hospital without health insurance, they will still treat you. And I got a bill. Do you know what I did? I didn't go crying to anyone else about how it's so unfair that I got a bill from a hospital. I contacted the hospital and said "I can't pay this bill right now, but to show you that I have every intention of paying it I'll send you $50 a month until either it is paid off or until I can afford to pay more." They told me thanks for letting them know and they let me pay off my bill as slowly as I needed to pay it off.

I'd be willing to bet that if you did the same thing at most health facilities they would give the same reaction. Hospitals don't like sending customers to collectors, but when customers don't contact them in good faith what choice do they have? If I'd just not made a payment and not contacted the hospital, my bill would have gone to collections. But, since I made a reasonable attempt to pay off what I owed, it didn't.

Rick

And what if when you had no insurance you suffered a heart attack, or found out you had cancer? Still going to pay that off at $50 a month? How long will that take? There is no way you would be able to afford those bills, but does that mean you should be denied the care you need? Of course not. Hospitals may 'work' with you, but that doesn't mean they just eat that cost. That money that you can't pay gets passed on to the rest of us through higher costs for our care. It's a vicious cycle that has nothing to do with rhetoric and everything to do with what faces millions and millions of americans every year.

You're making an incorrect assumption that what I went through when I was without insurance was minor. It wasn't, unless of course you consider going blind to be minor. I had major eye surgery. Do you have any idea how much that costs? Probably not. And yes, it was a huge bill. And yes, the hospital was glad to have whatever I could afford to pay towards paying off my bill. Eventually it got paid off.

Needless to say, the hospital got what it was owed. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about if you haven't been there, and I have. I know from experience that without insurance you won't be denied health care. I also know from experience that if you can't afford to pay your whole bill immediately that most hospitals will work with you as long as you make a good faith effort and pay even a small amount toward your bill.

Guess what, it didn't even effect my credit rating, because the hospital didn't turn it in to collections because I paid what I could. And for a time what I could afford to pay was as little as $10 a month.

Rick

Where did I argue that the hospital wouldn't work with what you could pay? Why did you ignore the fact that even if the hospital will take what you can afford that doesn't mean they just ignore the rest of what they're owed. The money you can't pay gets picked up by the rest of us who can through higher costs and premiums. I'm glad you were able to work something out that you could manage but that doesn't mean you could afford the entire bill. But just because someone without insurance can get treatment doesn't mean that the hospital just eats that cost out of the goodness of their heart. Wake up.

I know from experience just as well as you or anyone how this works. I have already lost my first wife to cancer and even though we had some of the best insurance possible, I ended up with a bill for over $180k after she passed away. That's WITH insurance.

And now my second wife is going through treatment for cancer as well, so don't preach to me about not having been there. I've been through it more then I would wish on anyone and I know first hand that it's a broken system.

 

[hboats]

And what if when you had no insurance you suffered a heart attack, or found out you had cancer? Still going to pay that off at $50 a month? How long will that take? There is no way you would be able to afford those bills, but does that mean you should be denied the care you need? Of course not. Hospitals may 'work' with you, but that doesn't mean they just eat that cost. That money that you can't pay gets passed on to the rest of us through higher costs for our care. It's a vicious cycle that has nothing to do with rhetoric and everything to do with what faces millions and millions of americans every year.

You're making an incorrect assumption that what I went through when I was without insurance was minor. It wasn't, unless of course you consider going blind to be minor. I had major eye surgery. Do you have any idea how much that costs? Probably not. And yes, it was a huge bill. And yes, the hospital was glad to have whatever I could afford to pay towards paying off my bill. Eventually it got paid off.

Needless to say, the hospital got what it was owed. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about if you haven't been there, and I have. I know from experience that without insurance you won't be denied health care. I also know from experience that if you can't afford to pay your whole bill immediately that most hospitals will work with you as long as you make a good faith effort and pay even a small amount toward your bill.

Guess what, it didn't even effect my credit rating, because the hospital didn't turn it in to collections because I paid what I could. And for a time what I could afford to pay was as little as $10 a month.

Rick

Where did I argue that the hospital wouldn't work with what you could pay? Why did you ignore the fact that even if the hospital will take what you can afford that doesn't mean they just ignore the rest of what they're owed. The money you can't pay gets picked up by the rest of us who can through higher costs and premiums. I'm glad you were able to work something out that you could manage but that doesn't mean you could afford the entire bill. But just because someone without insurance can get treatment doesn't mean that the hospital just eats that cost out of the goodness of their heart. Wake up.

I know from experience just as well as you or anyone how this works. I have already lost my first wife to cancer and even though we had some of the best insurance possible, I ended up with a bill for over $180k after she passed away. That's WITH insurance.

And now my second wife is going through treatment for cancer as well, so don't preach to me about not having been there. I've been through it more then I would wish on anyone and I know first hand that it's a broken system.

Where did I say that I didn't pay the whole bill? If you'd read my post you'd see that I said they got everything that was owed eventually. I never said that they'd just write off anything. I paid the complete bill.

So, now you admit that it's not a problem of getting health care without insurance. Why the sudden change? In previous posts you've said that people without insurance don't get the same health care.

So, you're not advocating health care reform at all. You're advocating health INSURANCE reform.

What makes you think that under Obama's health care bill your situation would have had a different outcome? News flash, it wouldn't. You'd still have had the same coverage, and the same $180k bill at the end. Your insurance isn't going to change if you're already covered. Isn't that what they've been hammering into us this whole time?

You're seriously confused if you think this bill is going to change anything other than forcing people to buy health coverage. Unless you realize that it'll also prices most smaller companies out of being able to offer health coverage to their employees.

I'm sorry for what you're going through with your wife and what you've gone through with your previous wife.

Rick

 

[RDD_1210]

You're making an incorrect assumption that what I went through when I was without insurance was minor. It wasn't, unless of course you consider going blind to be minor. I had major eye surgery. Do you have any idea how much that costs? Probably not. And yes, it was a huge bill. And yes, the hospital was glad to have whatever I could afford to pay towards paying off my bill. Eventually it got paid off.

Needless to say, the hospital got what it was owed. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about if you haven't been there, and I have. I know from experience that without insurance you won't be denied health care. I also know from experience that if you can't afford to pay your whole bill immediately that most hospitals will work with you as long as you make a good faith effort and pay even a small amount toward your bill.

Guess what, it didn't even effect my credit rating, because the hospital didn't turn it in to collections because I paid what I could. And for a time what I could afford to pay was as little as $10 a month.

Rick

Where did I argue that the hospital wouldn't work with what you could pay? Why did you ignore the fact that even if the hospital will take what you can afford that doesn't mean they just ignore the rest of what they're owed. The money you can't pay gets picked up by the rest of us who can through higher costs and premiums. I'm glad you were able to work something out that you could manage but that doesn't mean you could afford the entire bill. But just because someone without insurance can get treatment doesn't mean that the hospital just eats that cost out of the goodness of their heart. Wake up.

I know from experience just as well as you or anyone how this works. I have already lost my first wife to cancer and even though we had some of the best insurance possible, I ended up with a bill for over $180k after she passed away. That's WITH insurance.

And now my second wife is going through treatment for cancer as well, so don't preach to me about not having been there. I've been through it more then I would wish on anyone and I know first hand that it's a broken system.

Where did I say that I didn't pay the whole bill? If you'd read my post you'd see that I said they got everything that was owed eventually. I never said that they'd just write off anything. I paid the complete bill.

I doubt you want to give details, but if your bill was as big as you claim it to be. I don't see how you can pay off anything substantial in full at a pace of $50/month. That would take 10 years just to pay off $6000, which is hardly a huge sum in todays world. So how does someone pay off a $20k bill, or $100k plus which is what people are faced with very often as we both know hospital stays and procedures can add up in the blink of an eye.

So, now you admit that it's not a problem of getting health care without insurance. Why the sudden change? In previous posts you've said that people without insurance don't get the same health care.

So, you're not advocating health care reform at all. You're advocating health INSURANCE reform.

Ideally yes I am looking for a MUCH bigger overhaul and change then what we get with this legislation, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

People still can get care without insurance but if you think the quality is as good, then you're severely mistaken. Not all medical care is the same, just like sure, we both have cars but your Mercedes is at a much higher level of quality compared to my pinto.

What makes you think that under Obama's health care bill your situation would have had a different outcome? News flash, it wouldn't. You'd still have had the same coverage, and the same $180k bill at the end. Your insurance isn't going to change if you're already covered. Isn't that what they've been hammering into us this whole time?

You're seriously confused if you think this bill is going to change anything other than forcing people to buy health coverage. Unless you realize that it'll also price most smaller companies out of being able to offer health coverage to their employees.

Because under PPACA insurance companies can no longer put caps on annual and lifetime coverage limits, which is why I was hit with that bill. This wouldn't be the case today for someone under a similar situation now. Your insurance won't change for the worse, which is what the point Obama was trying to make. If it makes a change for the better which it is, is that really an issue?

I'm sorry for what you're going through with your wife and what you've gone through with your previous wife.

Rick

And thank you.

 

[hboats]

Where did I argue that the hospital wouldn't work with what you could pay? Why did you ignore the fact that even if the hospital will take what you can afford that doesn't mean they just ignore the rest of what they're owed. The money you can't pay gets picked up by the rest of us who can through higher costs and premiums. I'm glad you were able to work something out that you could manage but that doesn't mean you could afford the entire bill. But just because someone without insurance can get treatment doesn't mean that the hospital just eats that cost out of the goodness of their heart. Wake up.

I know from experience just as well as you or anyone how this works. I have already lost my first wife to cancer and even though we had some of the best insurance possible, I ended up with a bill for over $180k after she passed away. That's WITH insurance.

And now my second wife is going through treatment for cancer as well, so don't preach to me about not having been there. I've been through it more then I would wish on anyone and I know first hand that it's a broken system.

Where did I say that I didn't pay the whole bill? If you'd read my post you'd see that I said they got everything that was owed eventually. I never said that they'd just write off anything. I paid the complete bill.

I doubt you want to give details, but if your bill was as big as you claim it to be. I don't see how you can pay off anything substantial in full at a pace of $50/month. That would take 10 years just to pay off $6000, which is hardly a huge sum in todays world. So how does someone pay off a $20k bill, or $100k plus which is what people are faced with very often as we both know hospital stays and procedures can add up in the blink of an eye.

I didn't say I paid off the whole thing at $50/month. I said I paid what I could afford until I could afford to pay off the balance. Yes, it took me well over 10 years to pay off the bill in total, and yes the hospital took what I could afford until the time came that I could afford to pay off the balance.

Ideally yes I am looking for a MUCH bigger overhaul and change then what we get with this legislation, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

People still can get care without insurance but if you think the quality is as good, then you're severely mistaken. Not all medical care is the same, just like sure, we both have cars but your Mercedes is at a much higher level of quality compared to my pinto.

What makes you think that under Obama's health care bill your situation would have had a different outcome? News flash, it wouldn't. You'd still have had the same coverage, and the same $180k bill at the end. Your insurance isn't going to change if you're already covered. Isn't that what they've been hammering into us this whole time?

You're seriously confused if you think this bill is going to change anything other than forcing people to buy health coverage. Unless you realize that it'll also price most smaller companies out of being able to offer health coverage to their employees.

Because under PPACA insurance companies can no longer put caps on annual and lifetime coverage limits, which is why I was hit with that bill. This wouldn't be the case today for someone under a similar situation now. Your insurance won't change for the worse, which is what the point Obama was trying to make. If it makes a change for the better which it is, is that really an issue?

Listen, I seriously doubt that I'm going to change your mind, and I seriously doubt that you're going to change mine. But now I see a little better where you're coming from. I do still think that this bill is a huge move in the wrong direction. And there are/were other options out there that would have done a much better job of accomplishing what you're after. Those options, however, were not even considered or presented to the public unless you took the time and energy to search them out. This bill is not even close to a solution, and in fact in the long run will probably just make things worse, as well as adding yet another entitlement. But that's been the goal all along, make the American public rely so heavily on government that they can't do anything without government. Again, I ask you, where does it stop? I can guarantee that this is just a first step, and that because of this first step other things will follow.

I'm sorry for what you're going through with your wife and what you've gone through with your previous wife.

Rick

And thank you.

You're welcome. And that was offered with complete sincerity.

Rick

 

[sparky]

There's so much that goes on that we just don't hear about, but you'd need to be someone who is privy to the stories first hand. There's the phramacabal who have been on a jihad to addict every senior in this country, there's the 'good hands' who always find a loophole in the small print on page 3846454374383 to let you down when you need them most, there's the death with dignity contingent who will tell you about the huge $$$$ made off that last 4-6 months in intensive care, and there's that $700-$1200 admission fee to an ER (dropping like flies, changing to urgent care to aviod jacho) where a splinter can't be refused

the whole problem with capitalist medicine is it only recieves capitalist fixes here, it doesn't view itself as having any social contract with anyone at all...

 

[RDD_1210]

Where did I say that I didn't pay the whole bill? If you'd read my post you'd see that I said they got everything that was owed eventually. I never said that they'd just write off anything. I paid the complete bill.

I doubt you want to give details, but if your bill was as big as you claim it to be. I don't see how you can pay off anything substantial in full at a pace of $50/month. That would take 10 years just to pay off $6000, which is hardly a huge sum in todays world. So how does someone pay off a $20k bill, or $100k plus which is what people are faced with very often as we both know hospital stays and procedures can add up in the blink of an eye.

I didn't say I paid off the whole thing at $50/month. I said I paid what I could afford until I could afford to pay off the balance. Yes, it took me well over 10 years to pay off the bill in total, and yes the hospital took what I could afford until the time came that I could afford to pay off the balance.




Listen, I seriously doubt that I'm going to change your mind, and I seriously doubt that you're going to change mine. But now I see a little better where you're coming from. I do still think that this bill is a huge move in the wrong direction. And there are/were other options out there that would have done a much better job of accomplishing what you're after. Those options, however, were not even considered or presented to the public unless you took the time and energy to search them out. This bill is not even close to a solution, and in fact in the long run will probably just make things worse, as well as adding yet another entitlement. But that's been the goal all along, make the American public rely so heavily on government that they can't do anything without government. Again, I ask you, where does it stop? I can guarantee that this is just a first step, and that because of this first step other things will follow.

I'm sorry for what you're going through with your wife and what you've gone through with your previous wife.

Rick

And thank you.

You're welcome. And that was offered with complete sincerity.

Rick

I will say thank you for the discussion. It was a refreshing change from what usually happens on this site. You're right on a couple of things, we probably won't be able to agree on this but thats ok. I also do agree with you that this bill is FAR from an ideal solution. I wish we could tear down the whole system and start from scratch but that just isn't realistic in a world where people need help now. This legislation is a glorified band-aid on a gaping wound.

 

[RDD_1210]

Those two documents say that every American should be forced to purchase health insurance even if they don't want it? Really? Please point out to me exactly where it says that in those two documents.

So are we going with the "it must explicitly state everything in the constitution" argument today? If so, let's discuss the Air Force and Nuclear weapons.

And why stop there, couldn't you also argue then that it is in every American's best interest to own a computer? A car? A home? Let's just mandate all of those as well.

Rick

Why take everything to an extreme? Where have I or anyone argued that every american is entitled to owning a home or a computer? You can be rational without taking things to the extreme with your "what if" scenarios. Nothing is more important then your health and thats the only reason I support ensuring all citizens can get all the healthcare that they need.

RDD_1210

You lose!

Act your age.

You're just proving my point everytime you post. Please neg rep me and go away.

 

[The Infidel]

Give me give me... take take take....




Inaugural address of John F. Kennedy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"

 

[The Infidel]

So are we going with the "it must explicitly state everything in the constitution" argument today? If so, let's discuss the Air Force and Nuclear weapons.



Why take everything to an extreme? Where have I or anyone argued that every american is entitled to owning a home or a computer? You can be rational without taking things to the extreme with your "what if" scenarios. Nothing is more important then your health and thats the only reason I support ensuring all citizens can get all the healthcare that they need.

RDD_1210

You lose!

Act your age.

You're just proving my point everytime you post. Please neg rep me and go away.

I deleted the post, b/c I didnt want to be a jackass.... but since you quoted it before I could,

Why is it you "liberals" think America owes you ANYTHING?
It should be the other way around. What have you got to offer America besides give me give me take take take!

 

[RDD_1210]

Give me give me... take take take....




Inaugural address of John F. Kennedy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"

What about it? You don't think we should be asking what we can do for our country?

 

[RDD_1210]

RDD_1210

You lose!

Act your age.

You're just proving my point everytime you post. Please neg rep me and go away.

I deleted the post, b/c I didnt want to be a jackass.... but since you quoted it before I could,

Why is it you "liberals" think America owes you ANYTHING?
It should be the other way around. What have you got to offer America besides give me give me take take take!

Who said anyone owes me anything? I'm arguing for quite the opposite. I want us to all pitch in and help the less fortunate who are struggling. I am asking what I can do for my country. I can afford health insurance but I know not everyone is as fortunate as I am. I am fine with higher taxes for myself if it means it will help those who truly need it. Will some of that benefit actual free loaders and dead beats? Sure, but it will also help the millions of people who do need that help and I'm ok with that trade off.

 

[Flopper]

I am not against Healthcare reform but I am against how it was shoved down our throats and its mandatory. They should not be allowed to force us to have healthcare PERIOD. People say they make us have car insurance. Not true. You dont have to drive or own a car its an option !!! I am all for everyone having an chance to have healthcare my problem is how they went around doing it!!

I don't like the mandatory clause either but the fact is once you remove the preexisting conditions, you remove the incentive to buy insurance until you're ill. That would make health insurance unfordable for many people. A healthcare system must have a balance between healthy and sick people, otherwise it doesn't work.

 

[Flopper]

I edited my previous post while you were quoting it.

Again, why do we need to deprive people of something that is literally about life and death and affecting millions of people now, because of what *might* happen down the road and on a much smaller scale. I don't understand the fear. If you support people being able to get health care no matter what then support it, if you are against every student getting a computer/ipad/etc... then don't support that. I don't understand what a vote for one means you have to vote for all? Vote for and support what you think is important on a case by case basis.

As has been pointed out here countless times before, all Americans have access to health care. Not all of them have health insurance.

That reminds me of what my insurance company said once. " We never deny healthcare, but we do deny claims." Unfortunately for far too many Americans, no insurance coverage is synonymous with no healthcare.

 

[hortysir]

Again, why do we need to deprive people of something that is literally about life and death and affecting millions of people now, because of what *might* happen down the road and on a much smaller scale. I don't understand the fear. If you support people being able to get health care no matter what then support it, if you are against every student getting a computer/ipad/etc... then don't support that. I don't understand what a vote for one means you have to vote for all? Vote for and support what you think is important on a case by case basis.

Not depriving anyone of anything. One can still pay for medical expenses without having insurance.
It is still a good/service.
Nowhere in the Declaration or Constitution is it the federal government's job to provide and/or require purchase of a good/service.

Nothing against people "getting" health care coverage any more than I'm against people getting satellite tv in their home.
I am, however, against me paying for your's.

 

[Gadawg73]

I was always totally against any changes to the current system until last year when my father died and I saw first hand the crooked health care system we have. Doctors and hospitals running the tab up hundreds of thousands of dollars per senior, ambulance services billing $900 for a 400 yard ride for an 88 year old man, refusing to release patients, not honoring 10 year old DNR orders, doctors ordering speech and occupational therapy to an 88 year old man to the tune of 12K in 15 days, home health care companies charging $150 an hour sitting around assisted living facilities doing nothing other than billing Medicare and on and on.
The current system is fucked folks. It has to be changed. My nephew is 35, self employed and pays $600 a month for health insurance. At current rise of 15% per year over the last 25 years he will be paying $4800 a month in his eatly 50s for health insurance and health care will be 40% of GNP.
GOP is lost on this one, just as lost as the Democrats.

 

[Gadawg73]

Again, why do we need to deprive people of something that is literally about life and death and affecting millions of people now, because of what *might* happen down the road and on a much smaller scale. I don't understand the fear. If you support people being able to get health care no matter what then support it, if you are against every student getting a computer/ipad/etc... then don't support that. I don't understand what a vote for one means you have to vote for all? Vote for and support what you think is important on a case by case basis.

Not depriving anyone of anything. One can still pay for medical expenses without having insurance.
It is still a good/service.
Nowhere in the Declaration or Constitution is it the federal government's job to provide and/or require purchase of a good/service.

Nothing against people "getting" health care coverage any more than I'm against people getting satellite tv in their home.
I am, however, against me paying for your's.

Nope, Atlanta area hospitals today admitted that they charge 500-600% MORE for the uninsured for the same procedures.
Same nationwide. They are legally ripping everyone off. Look it up. Been going on for decades. And insurance companies have all kinds of side agreements in place and are immune from anti trust laws.
Insurance companies run the show in every state. And it is bad, just as bad as government running it.
We need to go back to where everyone has their own health insurance policy personally. Like auto and home they will not pay for maintenance just like your auto does not pay for tires and oil changes and your home owners does not pay for new carpet, HVAC and paint.

Group health insurance has ruined American health care. Americans with the "I have it I might as well use it" mentality runs the tab up, doctors take advantage of it and the system is over utilized. Coupled with 60 % of all health care dollars spent on 5% of the population, the senior population, on disease care and this ship has already sunk.

 

[RDD_1210]

Again, why do we need to deprive people of something that is literally about life and death and affecting millions of people now, because of what *might* happen down the road and on a much smaller scale. I don't understand the fear. If you support people being able to get health care no matter what then support it, if you are against every student getting a computer/ipad/etc... then don't support that. I don't understand what a vote for one means you have to vote for all? Vote for and support what you think is important on a case by case basis.

Not depriving anyone of anything. One can still pay for medical expenses without having insurance.
It is still a good/service.
Nowhere in the Declaration or Constitution is it the federal government's job to provide and/or require purchase of a good/service.

Nothing against people "getting" health care coverage any more than I'm against people getting satellite tv in their home.
I am, however, against me paying for your's.

The bolded part tells me you are severely out of touch with reality. But thanks for letting us know you don't care what happens to your fellow Americans.

 

[Douger]

Give them a tube of aluminum polish and they'll continue to vote against their own best interests.
Keep them thar trailers **** an span and make damn sure the trailer doesn't. rust.
It's murka and murkinz. They can take care of themselves.
They dun needz no stinkin tax dollars benefiting them and them thar fammmlee members.
They B murkin!!!!

 

[Gadawg73]

And end group health care immediately for politicians and all government employees. Let them find their own like I do.