Do You Mind That The President Lied?

[PoliticalChic]

I had the good fortune to see the lecture by the authors of “Why Obamacare is Wrong for America,” Turner, Capreta, Miller and Moffit.

1. The subtitle is instructive: “ How the New Health Care Law Drives Up Costs, Puts Government in Charge of Your Decisions, and Threatens Your Constitutional Rights.”

2. Review the claims originally announced by the President. “When he ran for office, Obama said that his health care plan "will cut the cost of a typical family's premium by $2,500."( Time to curb Obamacare - SFGate) “The average, unsubsidized premium per person covered (including dependents) for new nongroup policies would be about 10 percent to 13 percent higher in 2016…” Director's Blog » Blog Archive » An Analysis of Health Insurance Premiums under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act


a. “Remember when Barack Obama promised that his health-care overhaul would “bend the cost curve downward” and arrest rapid increases in costs? ObamaCare bends the cost curve “In April 2010, Medicare’s Office of the Actuary released an analysis showing that the new law would increase national health care spending by more than $311 billion over the next ten years.” Obamacare repeal and the CBO | Pundit House


b. "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." “Taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year will pay roughly $3.9 billion more in taxes — in 2019 alone — due to healthcare reform, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress's official scorekeeper.” JCT: Healthcare law to sock middle class with a $3.9 billion tax increase in 2019 - The Hill's On The Money Thus, eight out of ten affected would be making under $200 K. Further, the 40% excise tax on “Cadillac” plans is largely a middle class tax.


c. “Obama: No reduced Medicare benefits in health care reform.” (Obama: No reduced Medicare benefits in health care reform - CNN) “Douglas Elmendorf, director of the Congressional Budget Office, says that simply isn’t true.” CBO: Medicare cuts mean benefit cuts « Hot Air And “The actuary's office has projected those cuts would eventually force about 15 percent of providers into the red.” (Obama's HealthCare Won't Help Sick Old People, What Will Happen To Them?) “would sharply reduce benefits for some senior citizens and could jeopardize access to care for millions of others, according to a government evaluation released Saturday.” Study shows ObamaCare would cut Medicare services, providers « Hot Air And seniors in medicare advantage: “MA enrollees will total about $3,700 annually by 2017, or a nearly 27 percent cut from what would have occurred without the new law.” How Do Obamacare and the Obama Tax Hikes Effect Seniors? - AskHeritage


d. “That is why I have pledged that I will not sign health insurance reform that adds even one dime to our deficit over the next decade.” (Obama: Health Care Reform Won't Add "One Dime" To Deficit - Hotline On Call) “The Congressional Budget Office on Tuesday released a new estimate attributing $115 billion in additional spending to the new national health care law, driving the full cost over the first decade to over $1 trillion.” The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : CBO Sees $115 Billion in Added ObamaCare Costs

e. “Overall, CBO says the ACA’s tax hikes will reach 1.2 percent of GDP in 2035, or a whopping $180 billion annually in today’s terms.” That would be 5%-10% increases in taxes.(Health Care Repeal Won't Add to the Deficit - WSJ.com) Further, the bill in not inflation-indexed, which meant that “bracket-creep” will assure that the taxes on the ‘rich,’ the $250 K incomes of today will be on folks earning the equivalent of today’s $130 K in 2030.


While I try to avoid such strong language as 'lied,' one is hard pressed to find an explanation for the above other than purposeful lying, or being totally clueless.....

You choose.

 

[boedicca]

e. “Overall, CBO says the ACA’s tax hikes will reach 1.2 percent of GDP in 2035, or a whopping $180 billion annually in today’s terms.” That would be 5%-10% increases in taxes.(Health Care Repeal Won't Add to the Deficit - WSJ.com) Further, the bill in not inflation-indexed, which meant that “bracket-creep” will assure that the taxes on the ‘rich,’ the $250 K incomes of today will be on folks earning the equivalent of today’s $130 K in 2030.

This is a point I've made in several threads lately about Raising Taxes On The Rich.

Decades ago, the definition of Rich to whom the highest bracket applied was for incomes abover the equivalent of $5 million today. How, with inflation, the purchasing power is so much lower, but $250K is still defined as The Rich...and as it marches on, the tax increases will creep lower and lower.

Inflation is the Cruelest Tax.

 

[Wiseacre]

I'm kinda used to it.

 

[del]

a president lied?

color me stunned

 

[spectrumc01]

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. That whole Iran-contra thing was nothing but...oh, not that lie.

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. We need to disarm Husein because he has weapons of mass destruction that was complete....oh, not that lie either.

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. "I did not have sex with that woman", lied right to the camera...oh, not that lie either.

Hard to be shocked.

 

[sparky]

I had the good fortune to see the lecture by the authors of “Why Obamacare is Wrong for America,” Turner, Capreta, Miller and Moffit.



b. "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." “Taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year will pay roughly $3.9 billion more in taxes — in 2019 alone — due to healthcare reform, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress's official scorekeeper.” JCT: Healthcare law to sock middle class with a $3.9 billion tax increase in 2019 - The Hill's On The Money Thus, eight out of ten affected would be making under $200 K. Further, the 40% excise tax on “Cadillac” plans is largely a middle class tax.



While I try to avoid such strong language as 'lied,' one is hard pressed to find an explanation for the above other than purposeful lying, or being totally clueless.....

You choose.

ok, this is what i have so far>



Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax. The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Does this stuff make your November and 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few members of Congress that aren't aware of it either

ObamaCare Flatlines: ObamaCare Taxes Home Sales - Clobbers Middle-Class Americans - Blog - GOP.govi'm having a bit of a time applying the obameter>

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about PolitiFact's Top Promises

but i'm fairly certain it will appear eventually as 1/2 the truth a lie, the devil being in the details. For instance being over the 250K income limit means being unaffected (by the Hill article) , so it depends who BarryO is addressing

being under that limit, i'm not overly enthused about sharing my retirement nest egg with the gov's health care nazi's, nor am i about them apperaing at the door of my biz

but what we can plainly see here, is this is another weapons of mass destruction scenario, where all the information is shill, Congress votes on it (yes it was a bipart HC bill) , and the potus is hung out to dry on the details

so would you care to explain the dif PC?

or do we simply place Obama and Bush in the same penalty box?

 

[Lovebears65]

All presidents lie but Obama has taken it to a whole new level. He says one thing one day and then turns around and does what he wanted to in the first place and think we are too stupid to know what he was doing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm kinda used to it.

a president lied?

color me stunned

This was my reaction. I think this says more about the problem than anything else possibly could, we now expect politicians, even the president, to lie. I guess the people that argued that moral fiber is not a qualification for public office are reaping the benefits of their position, and everyone else is dealing with the consequences.

What are we going to judge people by if it is not the content of their character?

 

[martybegan]

I'm kinda used to it.

a president lied?

color me stunned

This was my reaction. I think this says more about the problem than anything else possibly could, we now expect politicians, even the president, to lie. I guess the people that argued that moral fiber is not a qualification for public office are reaping the benefits of their position, and everyone else is dealing with the consequences.

What are we going to judge people by if it is not the content of their character?

I would consider it more wishful thinking than lying. I think in the political forum we throw around the "lie" accusation far to easily. Lying needs you to know the absolute truth, and then speaking or writing down the opposite.

 

[Wiseacre]

I'm kinda used to it.

a president lied?

color me stunned

This was my reaction. I think this says more about the problem than anything else possibly could, we now expect politicians, even the president, to lie. I guess the people that argued that moral fiber is not a qualification for public office are reaping the benefits of their position, and everyone else is dealing with the consequences.

What are we going to judge people by if it is not the content of their character?

For politicians it's all about what worked and what didn't. You can lie your ass off, but if the economy is doing well then you're probably going to get re-elected. Tell the truth all you want, but if the economy tanks on your watch you're toast. I think that's where we're headed politically, git 'er done or go home.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. That whole Iran-contra thing was nothing but...oh, not that lie.

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. We need to disarm Husein because he has weapons of mass destruction that was complete....oh, not that lie either.

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. "I did not have sex with that woman", lied right to the camera...oh, not that lie either.

Hard to be shocked.

You and Del both need to spare us the faux-sophisticated, jaded, "Oh, they all do it, I don't expect any better and you're naive if you do" act, because it's exactly that sort of apathetic bullshit that makes it possible for politicians to flap their gums with no thought to honesty or accountability.

In short, if you're not stunned and outraged by the problem, it's because you ARE the problem.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm kinda used to it.

a president lied?

color me stunned

This was my reaction. I think this says more about the problem than anything else possibly could, we now expect politicians, even the president, to lie. I guess the people that argued that moral fiber is not a qualification for public office are reaping the benefits of their position, and everyone else is dealing with the consequences.

What are we going to judge people by if it is not the content of their character?

I would consider it more wishful thinking than lying. I think in the political forum we throw around the "lie" accusation far to easily. Lying needs you to know the absolute truth, and then speaking or writing down the opposite.

So you're saying that you would rather believe that the President of the United States, one of the most powerful men on the planet, is too pathetically clueless not to have known how things would turn out under his plan, despite the fact that numerous OTHER people in the country DID figure it out, and spent the entire time he was happymouthing Obamacare to the nation SCREAMING these facts at him repeatedly? That's a preferable scenario to you than that he coldly and calculatedly lied to achieve his agenda?

I don't like either one, but I think overall, stupid is scarier than dishonest.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I had the good fortune to see the lecture by the authors of “Why Obamacare is Wrong for America,” Turner, Capreta, Miller and Moffit.



b. "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." “Taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year will pay roughly $3.9 billion more in taxes — in 2019 alone — due to healthcare reform, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress's official scorekeeper.” JCT: Healthcare law to sock middle class with a $3.9 billion tax increase in 2019 - The Hill's On The Money Thus, eight out of ten affected would be making under $200 K. Further, the 40% excise tax on “Cadillac” plans is largely a middle class tax.



While I try to avoid such strong language as 'lied,' one is hard pressed to find an explanation for the above other than purposeful lying, or being totally clueless.....

You choose.

ok, this is what i have so far>



Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax. The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Does this stuff make your November and 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few members of Congress that aren't aware of it either

ObamaCare Flatlines: ObamaCare Taxes Home Sales - Clobbers Middle-Class Americans - Blog - GOP.govi'm having a bit of a time applying the obameter>

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about PolitiFact's Top Promises

but i'm fairly certain it will appear eventually as 1/2 the truth a lie, the devil being in the details. For instance being over the 250K income limit means being unaffected (by the Hill article) , so it depends who BarryO is addressing

being under that limit, i'm not overly enthused about sharing my retirement nest egg with the gov's health care nazi's, nor am i about them apperaing at the door of my biz

but what we can plainly see here, is this is another weapons of mass destruction scenario, where all the information is shill, Congress votes on it (yes it was a bipart HC bill) , and the potus is hung out to dry on the details

so would you care to explain the dif PC?

or do we simply place Obama and Bush in the same penalty box?

Are you asking whose home would be taxed under Obamacare?


The bill would impose essentially a capital gains taxes on some home sales made by a limited number of taxpayers. (The health care law contains a new 3.8 percent tax on "unearned income" for high-income taxpayers. Unearned income includes capital gains.)

To be hit by the 3.8 percent capital gains tax, you first have to be a married couple making more than $250,000 in adjusted gross income or $200,000 if you are single. The capital gain on the home sale must also exceed $500,000 if this is a primary home and you are a married couple ($250,000 for singles).

So for example, even if you and your spouse make $300,000 in wages and you bought a home that you lived in for a while for $600,000 that you now sell it for $1 million, your capital gains tax on that home sale would be zero. Even if the home sold for $1.2 million, thereby resulting in a capital gain of $600,000, only $100,000 of that capital gain would subject to the new tax (because of the $500,000 exclusion). The Tax Foundation - Would "ObamaCare" (Health Care Reform) Tax the Sale of Your Home? Probably Not.

 

[MaggieMae]

ok, this is what i have so far>


Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax. The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Does this stuff make your November and 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few members of Congress that aren't aware of it either

ObamaCare Flatlines: ObamaCare Taxes Home Sales - Clobbers Middle-Class Americans - Blog - GOP.govi'm having a bit of a time applying the obameter>

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about PolitiFact's Top Promises

but i'm fairly certain it will appear eventually as 1/2 the truth a lie, the devil being in the details. For instance being over the 250K income limit means being unaffected (by the Hill article) , so it depends who BarryO is addressing

being under that limit, i'm not overly enthused about sharing my retirement nest egg with the gov's health care nazi's, nor am i about them apperaing at the door of my biz

but what we can plainly see here, is this is another weapons of mass destruction scenario, where all the information is shill, Congress votes on it (yes it was a bipart HC bill) , and the potus is hung out to dry on the details

so would you care to explain the dif PC?

or do we simply place Obama and Bush in the same penalty box?

Well that one's a bust already.
snopes.com: 3.8% Tax on Real Estate Transactions

As for the entire OP, it's typical. Bits and pieces selectively presented that attempt to skew something in its entirety as being all bad. And just about all of PC's current "list" (she has many), came from campaign promises or projections. I'd love to have a dollar for every campaign promise or projection that didn't ever get fulfilled, and since I've been around for about ten different presidential cycles, I'd have myself a nice "dinner out" nest egg I could dip into.

 

[MaggieMae]

All presidents lie but Obama has taken it to a whole new level. He says one thing one day and then turns around and does what he wanted to in the first place and think we are too stupid to know what he was doing.

Examples? Specific ones, please.

 

[MaggieMae]

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. That whole Iran-contra thing was nothing but...oh, not that lie.

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. We need to disarm Husein because he has weapons of mass destruction that was complete....oh, not that lie either.

Those damn lying presidents, how could they, I'm outraged. "I did not have sex with that woman", lied right to the camera...oh, not that lie either.

Hard to be shocked.

You and Del both need to spare us the faux-sophisticated, jaded, "Oh, they all do it, I don't expect any better and you're naive if you do" act, because it's exactly that sort of apathetic bullshit that makes it possible for politicians to flap their gums with no thought to honesty or accountability.

In short, if you're not stunned and outraged by the problem, it's because you ARE the problem.

So we should just forget about past administrations that contributed to our current messes and all play the destroy Obama game? I don't think so, sweetie. And I seriously doubt historians will either.

 

[MaggieMae]

This was my reaction. I think this says more about the problem than anything else possibly could, we now expect politicians, even the president, to lie. I guess the people that argued that moral fiber is not a qualification for public office are reaping the benefits of their position, and everyone else is dealing with the consequences.

What are we going to judge people by if it is not the content of their character?

I would consider it more wishful thinking than lying. I think in the political forum we throw around the "lie" accusation far to easily. Lying needs you to know the absolute truth, and then speaking or writing down the opposite.

So you're saying that you would rather believe that the President of the United States, one of the most powerful men on the planet, is too pathetically clueless not to have known how things would turn out under his plan, despite the fact that numerous OTHER people in the country DID figure it out, and spent the entire time he was happymouthing Obamacare to the nation SCREAMING these facts at him repeatedly? That's a preferable scenario to you than that he coldly and calculatedly lied to achieve his agenda?

I don't like either one, but I think overall, stupid is scarier than dishonest.

What "facts"?? You mean those screaming "facts" that were based on ideology, not basic numbers in real time and who were dead set against anything OTHER THAN private health care/insurance at the outset and spent two years scrambling around to defy every 't' not crossed to prove themselves right? Very little of the health care program has even gone into effect yet, yet here you all are saying it doesn't work. Huh? How do you know? Your crystal ball must not be the same brand as mine, because mine is still cloudy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

ok, this is what i have so far>


Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax. The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Does this stuff make your November and 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few members of Congress that aren't aware of it either

ObamaCare Flatlines: ObamaCare Taxes Home Sales - Clobbers Middle-Class Americans - Blog - GOP.govi'm having a bit of a time applying the obameter>

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about PolitiFact's Top Promises

but i'm fairly certain it will appear eventually as 1/2 the truth a lie, the devil being in the details. For instance being over the 250K income limit means being unaffected (by the Hill article) , so it depends who BarryO is addressing

being under that limit, i'm not overly enthused about sharing my retirement nest egg with the gov's health care nazi's, nor am i about them apperaing at the door of my biz

but what we can plainly see here, is this is another weapons of mass destruction scenario, where all the information is shill, Congress votes on it (yes it was a bipart HC bill) , and the potus is hung out to dry on the details

so would you care to explain the dif PC?

or do we simply place Obama and Bush in the same penalty box?

Well that one's a bust already.
snopes.com: 3.8% Tax on Real Estate Transactions

As for the entire OP, it's typical. Bits and pieces selectively presented that attempt to skew something in its entirety as being all bad. And just about all of PC's current "list" (she has many), came from campaign promises or projections. I'd love to have a dollar for every campaign promise or projection that didn't ever get fulfilled, and since I've been around for about ten different presidential cycles, I'd have myself a nice "dinner out" nest egg I could dip into.

Every time I read your post, I shake my head so rapidly, you could blend paint colors in my mouth….

1. Don't you get tired of being wrong?

You claim that I am in error, I prove that it is you who are wrong, and we repeat this kabuki dance over and over...

....why, folks probably think I pay you to do it to make me look good!

Is there a tax on the sale of one's home in a supposed healthcare bill, the PPACA?
Sure is.
Have someone read/explain post #13 to you.

2. "As for the entire OP, it's typical. Bits and pieces selectively presented ..."
You make this far too easy.

Which item in the OP did you find to be in error? Oh, none?
Is that why you weren't able to specify any?

Consider yourself as burned as Edgar Winter on an Ecuadorian beach!

 

[MaggieMae]

ok, this is what i have so far>


Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax. The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Does this stuff make your November and 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few members of Congress that aren't aware of it either

ObamaCare Flatlines: ObamaCare Taxes Home Sales - Clobbers Middle-Class Americans - Blog - GOP.govi'm having a bit of a time applying the obameter>

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about PolitiFact's Top Promises

but i'm fairly certain it will appear eventually as 1/2 the truth a lie, the devil being in the details. For instance being over the 250K income limit means being unaffected (by the Hill article) , so it depends who BarryO is addressing

being under that limit, i'm not overly enthused about sharing my retirement nest egg with the gov's health care nazi's, nor am i about them apperaing at the door of my biz

but what we can plainly see here, is this is another weapons of mass destruction scenario, where all the information is shill, Congress votes on it (yes it was a bipart HC bill) , and the potus is hung out to dry on the details

so would you care to explain the dif PC?

or do we simply place Obama and Bush in the same penalty box?

Well that one's a bust already.
snopes.com: 3.8% Tax on Real Estate Transactions

As for the entire OP, it's typical. Bits and pieces selectively presented that attempt to skew something in its entirety as being all bad. And just about all of PC's current "list" (she has many), came from campaign promises or projections. I'd love to have a dollar for every campaign promise or projection that didn't ever get fulfilled, and since I've been around for about ten different presidential cycles, I'd have myself a nice "dinner out" nest egg I could dip into.

Every time I read your post, I shake my head so rapidly, you could blend paint colors in my mouth….

1. Don't you get tired of being wrong?

You claim that I am in error, I prove that it is you who are wrong, and we repeat this kabuki dance over and over...

....why, folks probably think I pay you to do it to make me look good!

Is there a tax on the sale of one's home in a supposed healthcare bill, the PPACA?
Sure is.
Have someone read/explain post #13 to you.

2. "As for the entire OP, it's typical. Bits and pieces selectively presented ..."
You make this far too easy.

Which item in the OP did you find to be in error? Oh, none?
Is that why you weren't able to specify any?

Consider yourself as burned as Edgar Winter on an Ecuadorian beach!

I'm not wrong. But neither are you, at least the cherry picked stuff you post. But you're infamous for leaving out vast pieces of fact just to justify your contention that you're right and everyone else is wrong. And therein lies my beef with you.

 

[MaggieMae]

Which item in the OP did you find to be in error? Oh, none?
Is that why you weren't able to specify any?

As I said, you chose selected ANALYSES of the health care issue upon which you base criticisms, and as I said elsewhere, the thing hasn't even been fully implemented yet and it won't be until 2014, so those opinions mean nothing but that to me: Opinions.