Quantum Windbag
Gold Member
- May 9, 2010
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has this ever happened?
I don't recall this in history class.
1825
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has this ever happened?
I don't recall this in history class.
Yes, Jefferson & JQ Adams.has this ever happened?
I don't recall this in history class.
1801 and 1825.has this ever happened?
I don't recall this in history class.
1825
You're premise is that the Senate would remain in Democratic Hands after this election, which is pretty unlikely. The Democrats are defending 10 seats, the GOP is only defending two, and they only need to win four to get control of the chamber. So in the unlikely event that the House is Deadlocked, whoever the GOP nominee for veep will likely be the acting president.
Right now, if you had a one-state, one vote breakdown, the GOP guy would win the House as well. all those square states with Republican Congressmen. More than likely, the Dems will take back some seats, but I think the House is going to remain in GOP hands.
It would be in Democratic hands until 1/3/13.
You don't think they'll find ways to delay the vote until then?
It's a moot point, anyway.
12th Amendment : The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.--The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
1800 election between Jefferson and Burr was thrown to the House because they tied in electorial votes.
1824 election (corrupt Bargain) of J Q Adams over Jackson was also decided in the house
12th Amendment : The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.--The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
...
All in all, it's fascinating that each state gets one vote in this narrow case (in the House). Sort of makes you wonder about why the founders didn't do it that way the entire time...instead of needing 218 to pass a bill, you would need 26... I don't know if it's crazy or brilliant!
Actually, the transportation of individual votes, and the length of time for a count were important factors. Note that the President used to take office March 4. That is the anniversary of the Constitution taking effect. Also, March 4, gave electors from outlying states time to have electoral votes counted. The results of 2000, while not in the best interests of the US, was just one of several such electoral college/popular vote disparities. Gore won the popular vote by 1/2 of 1%. Statistically, it was a tie.The Articles of Confederation Congress did vote by states, which led to geographical paralysis on certain issues. The treaty that would have permitted American westerners to use the Spanish Port of New Orleans to move their goods (so much more cheaply than east over the mountains) was killed by the New England states that feared the potential of the West both politically and economically.
The Electoral College is a trade off between the straight republican presentation of the one-vote one-state of the AOCC and the desire by many on this board for a mass democratic vote for the presidency.
I think the Electoral College is a perfect compromise between extreme republicanism and extreme democracy.
1801 and 1825.has this ever happened?
I don't recall this in history class.
1825
It would be in Democratic hands until 1/3/13.
You don't think they'll find ways to delay the vote until then?
It's a moot point, anyway.
Probably a moot point. The vote will not be delayed. Not a chance. Don't be crazy.
You don't think they'll find ways to delay the vote until then?
It's a moot point, anyway.
Probably a moot point. The vote will not be delayed. Not a chance. Don't be crazy.
You think the Republicans won't delay that for a month? Come on. You don't think they'll find ways to grind the chamber to a halt until their new members are seated?
You really think these outgoing Senators are going to go to the mat for Joe Biden? Really? Hell, half of them are urging Obama to dump his ass now.
Too high profile; too politically damaging to do that. The GOP didn't delay the Senate until Brown from MA was seated. His seating would have been able to prevent the cloture motion.
This would be obstructionist beyond belief so they wouldn't do that. Half of the Democratic senators are urging Obama to dump Biden?
Gotta hand it to you. You're Always good for a laugh.
The House must go into session IMMEDIATELY, and pick from the top three. The deadline Bush used to win the lawsuit in 2000 and become President applies. The House would most probably RACE to pick the Republican candidate. They could not delay by filing lawsuits this time around.Probably a moot point. The vote will not be delayed. Not a chance. Don't be crazy.
You think the Republicans won't delay that for a month? Come on. You don't think they'll find ways to grind the chamber to a halt until their new members are seated?
You really think these outgoing Senators are going to go to the mat for Joe Biden? Really? Hell, half of them are urging Obama to dump his ass now.
Too high profile; too politically damaging to do that. The GOP didn't delay the Senate until Brown from MA was seated. His seating would have been able to prevent the cloture motion.
This would be obstructionist beyond belief so they wouldn't do that. Half of the Democratic senators are urging Obama to dump Biden?
Gotta hand it to you. You're Always good for a laugh.
Yes, there have been "faithless" electors before.Too high profile; too politically damaging to do that. The GOP didn't delay the Senate until Brown from MA was seated. His seating would have been able to prevent the cloture motion.
This would be obstructionist beyond belief so they wouldn't do that. Half of the Democratic senators are urging Obama to dump Biden?
Gotta hand it to you. You're Always good for a laugh.
I'd be surprised if it was any less than half. They know that Biden would be a loser for them in 2016 and Obama needs to groom a sucessor.
Incidently, the Brown comparison isn't apt at all. In that case, the Democrats still had enough ability to shut down filibusters until Brown was seated, meaning the GOP couldn't do much. In a fight where they already have 47 seats with another six on the way, yeah, they'll bog the thing down, and so on.
Keep in mind who The Dems would have to rely on to slip Biden in there. Well. Joe Leiberman. YOu know, the guy you ran out of the party six years ago because he stuck by his Iraq War vote. Can you imagine Joe Leiberman making his last act in office saddling a new President with Joe Biden?
Fact is, the Senate will take its cue from whatever the House does.
Incidently, I don't think this will ever go to Congress. The electoral college will find one faithless elector to tip the balance to 270.
The House must go into session IMMEDIATELY, and pick from the top three. The deadline Bush used to win the lawsuit in 2000 and become President applies. The House would most probably RACE to pick the Republican candidate. They could not delay by filing lawsuits this time around.You think the Republicans won't delay that for a month? Come on. You don't think they'll find ways to grind the chamber to a halt until their new members are seated?
You really think these outgoing Senators are going to go to the mat for Joe Biden? Really? Hell, half of them are urging Obama to dump his ass now.
Too high profile; too politically damaging to do that. The GOP didn't delay the Senate until Brown from MA was seated. His seating would have been able to prevent the cloture motion.
This would be obstructionist beyond belief so they wouldn't do that. Half of the Democratic senators are urging Obama to dump Biden?
Gotta hand it to you. You're Always good for a laugh.
With SIX on the way? Any cite for that assertion? Turnout for the primaries has been low; and the fight has been nasty. TWO GOP contenders yelling that OTHER GOP contenders are not Christians. Unusual.Too high profile; too politically damaging to do that. The GOP didn't delay the Senate until Brown from MA was seated. His seating would have been able to prevent the cloture motion.
This would be obstructionist beyond belief so they wouldn't do that. Half of the Democratic senators are urging Obama to dump Biden?
Gotta hand it to you. You're Always good for a laugh.
I'd be surprised if it was any less than half. They know that Biden would be a loser for them in 2016 and Obama needs to groom a sucessor.
Incidently, the Brown comparison isn't apt at all. In that case, the Democrats still had enough ability to shut down filibusters until Brown was seated, meaning the GOP couldn't do much. In a fight where they already have 47 seats with another six on the way, yeah, they'll bog the thing down, and so on.
Keep in mind who The Dems would have to rely on to slip Biden in there. Well. Joe Leiberman. YOu know, the guy you ran out of the party six years ago because he stuck by his Iraq War vote. Can you imagine Joe Leiberman making his last act in office saddling a new President with Joe Biden?
Fact is, the Senate will take its cue from whatever the House does.
Incidently, I don't think this will ever go to Congress. The electoral college will find one faithless elector to tip the balance to 270.
More likely a third party run by Paul, though I doubt that also. Santorum will play up his PRIOR stances on AIDS & charity to appear moderate.The House must go into session IMMEDIATELY, and pick from the top three. The deadline Bush used to win the lawsuit in 2000 and become President applies. The House would most probably RACE to pick the Republican candidate. They could not delay by filing lawsuits this time around.Too high profile; too politically damaging to do that. The GOP didn't delay the Senate until Brown from MA was seated. His seating would have been able to prevent the cloture motion.
This would be obstructionist beyond belief so they wouldn't do that. Half of the Democratic senators are urging Obama to dump Biden?
Gotta hand it to you. You're Always good for a laugh.
I think there would also be other factors, such as who won the popular vote and by how much.
The possibility of a 269-269 tie is so remote, anyway, that it is almost a waste of time to talk about it. A more likely scenario is if Americans Elect responds to the nomination of Santorum by nominating a centrist who also pulls votes from Obama. But again. Really unlikely that would happen.
With SIX on the way? Any cite for that assertion? Turnout for the primaries has been low; and the fight has been nasty. TWO GOP contenders yelling that OTHER GOP contenders are not Christians. Unusual.