Don't Let The Bastards Set The Terms Of The Argument

[skews13]

Sooooo...let's do something a little different tonight.

Let's talk about the battles we fight and the terms we fight them on.

Let's talk about the "Don't politicize the tragedy, this is a time for healing" crowd.

You don't need me to tell you this kind of talk isn't about "healing," or "respect for the dead." It's about being on the less popular side of a divisive issue, and the sad truth that while the public will howl for common-sense/seriously-how-fucking-dumb-are-we-to-let-this-keep-happening gun control measures for awhile, well, give it a few weeks, and we'll move on to the next thing, because that's what we always do.

So yeah. "This is a time for healing" REALLY means "Let's run out the clock, we don't care about the people who died, and we sure as shit don't care about the people who die in the next one. We just don't give a single fuck."

My whole news feed is full of decent, well-intentioned folks, from the highest halls of power on down to just regular people trying to do the right thing, navigating their way through this dumbass right-wing talking point as though it's a good-faith argument worthy of addressing.

"No, this IS the time to politicize the issue, because XYZ."

And so we get bogged down, bickering on their terms, which is, of course, the entire fucking purpose of the bullshit "argument" in the first place.

Why play along? It's obviously nothing but an empty talking point. Just raw, unfiltered, horseshit.

So TREAT IT like horseshit. Blow straight past it without bothering to notice the idiot spouting it.

"You shouldn't politicize the tragedy!"

"Lord, that's a stupid fucking thing to say. ANYHOW..."

We have to stop participating on their terms. Because the right wing is extremely good at this sort of messaging. This is how "end of life counseling" becomes "DEATH PANELS HOLY SHIT OBAMA WANTS TO UNPLUG GRAMMA AND PEE ON HER WHILE SHE DIES."

Great example of this is how the far-right media dealt with Charlottesville.

You'd think that when a bunch of white supremacist jags hold a rally with Nazi flags and swastika armbands, and their rally turns violent, and people wind up hurt and killed, choosing sides won't be particularly tricky.

But no. After two weeks in the lunatic right wing media spin cycle, suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST took a backseat to the supposed free-roving gangs of Antifa thugs who apparently prowl the streets of every American community, salivating at the chance to beat any innocent passing conservative to a bloody pulp.

And we dutifully played along. Do you remember this? NAZI TERRORIST in jail for MURDERING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, videos of white supremacists beating a black guy within an inch of his life, videos of Klansmen firing guns into crowds, and everyone on the left feels obligated to somberly agree that yes, Antifa is just as bad as the NAZI TERRORIST WHO KILLED SOMEBODY.

And, having been given an inch, the right gleefully takes their entirely-predictable mile. Now suddenly EVERYBODY who protests white supremacy gets swept up under the same heading; we're ALL "Antifa." The whole left. Suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST'S victim is "Antifa," and thus a violent, out-of-control thug who pretty much deserved what she got.

That's what happens when we let them set the terms of the debate. When we play by their rules.

Look at the all the disingenuous blather over the kneeling protests. As you can see from the fans who jeer players for kneeling BEFORE the anthem, this has not one minuscule fucking thing to do with "the flag," or "the troops" or "patriotism," it's entirely about a one group of people saying "Black Lives Matter" and the other responding, "No. They Don't."

And we all KNOW that. So let's stop wasting energy poking holes in the bullshit "argument" that's phony anyway.

"Black Lives Matter." "No. They Don't." That's the discussion that's ACTUALLY happening, the faux patriotism is just a flimsy shield because these fucks understand that even they can't get away with just saying "No, Your Lives Do Not Matter."

Why pretend we don't see the bullshit? Why dignify it? Why allow the argument to take place on such blatantly fraudulent terms? When you see bullshit, call it bullshit.

I know there's an impulse to engage. "Logic is on our side, surely that will win them over." This again, assumes good faith where it simply does not exist.

The vast majority of these types are not rational or reasonable, and therefore they aren't REACHABLE. You can throw airtight logic at them 'till the cows come home, and they'll still go right on believing that climate change is a hoax and that John Podesta runs a child sex slavery ring from the nonexistent basement of a pizza joint.

And you can point out "Oh, you claim to believe X, but Y proves you don't, hah hah!" So fucking what? No degree of hypocrisy can shame these people. We're talking about a "religious" right that bellows about morality when it comes to LGBT rights, or reproductive rights, but unhesitatingly endorses a moral black hole like Donald Trump. Mitch McConnell can inhale stealing a Supreme Court seat, and exhale "Democrats are practicing obstruction on an unprecedented scale" with a smile on his face. They just don't give a fuck.

WHATEVER THE ISSUE, the far right will find some excuse to demonize us, a fresh reason to hate us. Seriously. When presented with NAZI TERRORISM, they actually found a way to come out of a national tragedy hating us even more.

Cult45 doesn't MIND being a cult. They ENJOY being a cult. They're eager partners in their own brainwashing, in fact. They consume their demented, hateful, soul-warping media all day long, and honestly, they seem to enjoy it a great deal.

So I'm pretty much done politely respecting shit arguments offered in bad faith.

Fuck your feelings. You're the "more lives snuffed out? MEH." party, the "literally no number of human lives are more important to me than the NRA's bank account" movement. Your position is pro-murder, and I'm not going to call it anything else from here on out.

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

I won't waste one more moment on any of your ridiculous "guns don't kill people" blather, because I recognize it for what it is; a ludicrous distraction designed slow down those of us working for the changes necessary to protect human lives.

If you don't give a fuck about all this senseless loss of life, I guess I can't make you. You're broken. That's your fault, and your problem.

If you don't understand why we should work to prevent tens of thousands of completely avoidable deaths, it's because, frankly, you're a shit person. You fail at humanity. Cool. I have exactly zero time for you.

I'm done listening to these lunatics. And I'm done engaging with the rage monsters trying to waste my time. I'm going over, around, and through these dipshits from now on. And you should, too.

So when the ranting maniac pops up in the comment thread to slobber about Antifa, or George Soros, or "you can't regulate evil," don't give him what he wants. Don't give him your time.

ESPECIALLY since we now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there are better ways to spend that time. Call your Congressman. Call your Senator, your Governor. See, THAT works. Arguing with the dumbass trolls on Facebook didn't sink the GOP health care bill, targeted, sustained activism did.

Bills don't pass on Twitter, folks.

So, do more of that thing that works, is what I'm saying. We're only just beginning to understand how powerful we are. Don't despair, don't waste time...get to work.

Don’t Let the Bastards Set the Terms of the Argument

 

[forkup]

Sooooo...let's do something a little different tonight.

Let's talk about the battles we fight and the terms we fight them on.

Let's talk about the "Don't politicize the tragedy, this is a time for healing" crowd.

You don't need me to tell you this kind of talk isn't about "healing," or "respect for the dead." It's about being on the less popular side of a divisive issue, and the sad truth that while the public will howl for common-sense/seriously-how-fucking-dumb-are-we-to-let-this-keep-happening gun control measures for awhile, well, give it a few weeks, and we'll move on to the next thing, because that's what we always do.

So yeah. "This is a time for healing" REALLY means "Let's run out the clock, we don't care about the people who died, and we sure as shit don't care about the people who die in the next one. We just don't give a single fuck."

My whole news feed is full of decent, well-intentioned folks, from the highest halls of power on down to just regular people trying to do the right thing, navigating their way through this dumbass right-wing talking point as though it's a good-faith argument worthy of addressing.

"No, this IS the time to politicize the issue, because XYZ."

And so we get bogged down, bickering on their terms, which is, of course, the entire fucking purpose of the bullshit "argument" in the first place.

Why play along? It's obviously nothing but an empty talking point. Just raw, unfiltered, horseshit.

So TREAT IT like horseshit. Blow straight past it without bothering to notice the idiot spouting it.

"You shouldn't politicize the tragedy!"

"Lord, that's a stupid fucking thing to say. ANYHOW..."

We have to stop participating on their terms. Because the right wing is extremely good at this sort of messaging. This is how "end of life counseling" becomes "DEATH PANELS HOLY SHIT OBAMA WANTS TO UNPLUG GRAMMA AND PEE ON HER WHILE SHE DIES."

Great example of this is how the far-right media dealt with Charlottesville.

You'd think that when a bunch of white supremacist jags hold a rally with Nazi flags and swastika armbands, and their rally turns violent, and people wind up hurt and killed, choosing sides won't be particularly tricky.

But no. After two weeks in the lunatic right wing media spin cycle, suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST took a backseat to the supposed free-roving gangs of Antifa thugs who apparently prowl the streets of every American community, salivating at the chance to beat any innocent passing conservative to a bloody pulp.

And we dutifully played along. Do you remember this? NAZI TERRORIST in jail for MURDERING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, videos of white supremacists beating a black guy within an inch of his life, videos of Klansmen firing guns into crowds, and everyone on the left feels obligated to somberly agree that yes, Antifa is just as bad as the NAZI TERRORIST WHO KILLED SOMEBODY.

And, having been given an inch, the right gleefully takes their entirely-predictable mile. Now suddenly EVERYBODY who protests white supremacy gets swept up under the same heading; we're ALL "Antifa." The whole left. Suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST'S victim is "Antifa," and thus a violent, out-of-control thug who pretty much deserved what she got.

That's what happens when we let them set the terms of the debate. When we play by their rules.

Look at the all the disingenuous blather over the kneeling protests. As you can see from the fans who jeer players for kneeling BEFORE the anthem, this has not one minuscule fucking thing to do with "the flag," or "the troops" or "patriotism," it's entirely about a one group of people saying "Black Lives Matter" and the other responding, "No. They Don't."

And we all KNOW that. So let's stop wasting energy poking holes in the bullshit "argument" that's phony anyway.

"Black Lives Matter." "No. They Don't." That's the discussion that's ACTUALLY happening, the faux patriotism is just a flimsy shield because these fucks understand that even they can't get away with just saying "No, Your Lives Do Not Matter."

Why pretend we don't see the bullshit? Why dignify it? Why allow the argument to take place on such blatantly fraudulent terms? When you see bullshit, call it bullshit.

I know there's an impulse to engage. "Logic is on our side, surely that will win them over." This again, assumes good faith where it simply does not exist.

The vast majority of these types are not rational or reasonable, and therefore they aren't REACHABLE. You can throw airtight logic at them 'till the cows come home, and they'll still go right on believing that climate change is a hoax and that John Podesta runs a child sex slavery ring from the nonexistent basement of a pizza joint.

And you can point out "Oh, you claim to believe X, but Y proves you don't, hah hah!" So fucking what? No degree of hypocrisy can shame these people. We're talking about a "religious" right that bellows about morality when it comes to LGBT rights, or reproductive rights, but unhesitatingly endorses a moral black hole like Donald Trump. Mitch McConnell can inhale stealing a Supreme Court seat, and exhale "Democrats are practicing obstruction on an unprecedented scale" with a smile on his face. They just don't give a fuck.

WHATEVER THE ISSUE, the far right will find some excuse to demonize us, a fresh reason to hate us. Seriously. When presented with NAZI TERRORISM, they actually found a way to come out of a national tragedy hating us even more.

Cult45 doesn't MIND being a cult. They ENJOY being a cult. They're eager partners in their own brainwashing, in fact. They consume their demented, hateful, soul-warping media all day long, and honestly, they seem to enjoy it a great deal.

So I'm pretty much done politely respecting shit arguments offered in bad faith.

Fuck your feelings. You're the "more lives snuffed out? MEH." party, the "literally no number of human lives are more important to me than the NRA's bank account" movement. Your position is pro-murder, and I'm not going to call it anything else from here on out.

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

I won't waste one more moment on any of your ridiculous "guns don't kill people" blather, because I recognize it for what it is; a ludicrous distraction designed slow down those of us working for the changes necessary to protect human lives.

If you don't give a fuck about all this senseless loss of life, I guess I can't make you. You're broken. That's your fault, and your problem.

If you don't understand why we should work to prevent tens of thousands of completely avoidable deaths, it's because, frankly, you're a shit person. You fail at humanity. Cool. I have exactly zero time for you.

I'm done listening to these lunatics. And I'm done engaging with the rage monsters trying to waste my time. I'm going over, around, and through these dipshits from now on. And you should, too.

So when the ranting maniac pops up in the comment thread to slobber about Antifa, or George Soros, or "you can't regulate evil," don't give him what he wants. Don't give him your time.

ESPECIALLY since we now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there are better ways to spend that time. Call your Congressman. Call your Senator, your Governor. See, THAT works. Arguing with the dumbass trolls on Facebook didn't sink the GOP health care bill, targeted, sustained activism did.

Bills don't pass on Twitter, folks.

So, do more of that thing that works, is what I'm saying. We're only just beginning to understand how powerful we are. Don't despair, don't waste time...get to work.

Don’t Let the Bastards Set the Terms of the Argument

This is an interesting OP'ed. I have a problem with it though. I agree that there is a lot of being disingenuous on the right. I also agree that humoring it puts the left at a disadvantage. The problem lies in the premise that stopping doing so will make it better. As so many things in politics its more complicated then that. First of one of the in my view correct assessments of a lot of liberals is a certain arrogance, something that I catch myself at on occasions. This will be exacerbated by marginalizing their viewpoints. Secondly, you have to be aware of why Republican politics is more effective at messaging then Democrats. They don't sell complicated. It's always easier to sell fear then it is to sell reason and we have to learn that being disingenuous is a weapon ,we should learn to sell our issues as black and white.

 

[Marion Morrison]

TL; DR

 

[Ringel05]

 

[Weatherman2020]

 

[petro]

That rant is humorous? OP must write for Kimmel.

 

[skews13]

Sooooo...let's do something a little different tonight.

Let's talk about the battles we fight and the terms we fight them on.

Let's talk about the "Don't politicize the tragedy, this is a time for healing" crowd.

You don't need me to tell you this kind of talk isn't about "healing," or "respect for the dead." It's about being on the less popular side of a divisive issue, and the sad truth that while the public will howl for common-sense/seriously-how-fucking-dumb-are-we-to-let-this-keep-happening gun control measures for awhile, well, give it a few weeks, and we'll move on to the next thing, because that's what we always do.

So yeah. "This is a time for healing" REALLY means "Let's run out the clock, we don't care about the people who died, and we sure as shit don't care about the people who die in the next one. We just don't give a single fuck."

My whole news feed is full of decent, well-intentioned folks, from the highest halls of power on down to just regular people trying to do the right thing, navigating their way through this dumbass right-wing talking point as though it's a good-faith argument worthy of addressing.

"No, this IS the time to politicize the issue, because XYZ."

And so we get bogged down, bickering on their terms, which is, of course, the entire fucking purpose of the bullshit "argument" in the first place.

Why play along? It's obviously nothing but an empty talking point. Just raw, unfiltered, horseshit.

So TREAT IT like horseshit. Blow straight past it without bothering to notice the idiot spouting it.

"You shouldn't politicize the tragedy!"

"Lord, that's a stupid fucking thing to say. ANYHOW..."

We have to stop participating on their terms. Because the right wing is extremely good at this sort of messaging. This is how "end of life counseling" becomes "DEATH PANELS HOLY SHIT OBAMA WANTS TO UNPLUG GRAMMA AND PEE ON HER WHILE SHE DIES."

Great example of this is how the far-right media dealt with Charlottesville.

You'd think that when a bunch of white supremacist jags hold a rally with Nazi flags and swastika armbands, and their rally turns violent, and people wind up hurt and killed, choosing sides won't be particularly tricky.

But no. After two weeks in the lunatic right wing media spin cycle, suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST took a backseat to the supposed free-roving gangs of Antifa thugs who apparently prowl the streets of every American community, salivating at the chance to beat any innocent passing conservative to a bloody pulp.

And we dutifully played along. Do you remember this? NAZI TERRORIST in jail for MURDERING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, videos of white supremacists beating a black guy within an inch of his life, videos of Klansmen firing guns into crowds, and everyone on the left feels obligated to somberly agree that yes, Antifa is just as bad as the NAZI TERRORIST WHO KILLED SOMEBODY.

And, having been given an inch, the right gleefully takes their entirely-predictable mile. Now suddenly EVERYBODY who protests white supremacy gets swept up under the same heading; we're ALL "Antifa." The whole left. Suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST'S victim is "Antifa," and thus a violent, out-of-control thug who pretty much deserved what she got.

That's what happens when we let them set the terms of the debate. When we play by their rules.

Look at the all the disingenuous blather over the kneeling protests. As you can see from the fans who jeer players for kneeling BEFORE the anthem, this has not one minuscule fucking thing to do with "the flag," or "the troops" or "patriotism," it's entirely about a one group of people saying "Black Lives Matter" and the other responding, "No. They Don't."

And we all KNOW that. So let's stop wasting energy poking holes in the bullshit "argument" that's phony anyway.

"Black Lives Matter." "No. They Don't." That's the discussion that's ACTUALLY happening, the faux patriotism is just a flimsy shield because these fucks understand that even they can't get away with just saying "No, Your Lives Do Not Matter."

Why pretend we don't see the bullshit? Why dignify it? Why allow the argument to take place on such blatantly fraudulent terms? When you see bullshit, call it bullshit.

I know there's an impulse to engage. "Logic is on our side, surely that will win them over." This again, assumes good faith where it simply does not exist.

The vast majority of these types are not rational or reasonable, and therefore they aren't REACHABLE. You can throw airtight logic at them 'till the cows come home, and they'll still go right on believing that climate change is a hoax and that John Podesta runs a child sex slavery ring from the nonexistent basement of a pizza joint.

And you can point out "Oh, you claim to believe X, but Y proves you don't, hah hah!" So fucking what? No degree of hypocrisy can shame these people. We're talking about a "religious" right that bellows about morality when it comes to LGBT rights, or reproductive rights, but unhesitatingly endorses a moral black hole like Donald Trump. Mitch McConnell can inhale stealing a Supreme Court seat, and exhale "Democrats are practicing obstruction on an unprecedented scale" with a smile on his face. They just don't give a fuck.

WHATEVER THE ISSUE, the far right will find some excuse to demonize us, a fresh reason to hate us. Seriously. When presented with NAZI TERRORISM, they actually found a way to come out of a national tragedy hating us even more.

Cult45 doesn't MIND being a cult. They ENJOY being a cult. They're eager partners in their own brainwashing, in fact. They consume their demented, hateful, soul-warping media all day long, and honestly, they seem to enjoy it a great deal.

So I'm pretty much done politely respecting shit arguments offered in bad faith.

Fuck your feelings. You're the "more lives snuffed out? MEH." party, the "literally no number of human lives are more important to me than the NRA's bank account" movement. Your position is pro-murder, and I'm not going to call it anything else from here on out.

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

I won't waste one more moment on any of your ridiculous "guns don't kill people" blather, because I recognize it for what it is; a ludicrous distraction designed slow down those of us working for the changes necessary to protect human lives.

If you don't give a fuck about all this senseless loss of life, I guess I can't make you. You're broken. That's your fault, and your problem.

If you don't understand why we should work to prevent tens of thousands of completely avoidable deaths, it's because, frankly, you're a shit person. You fail at humanity. Cool. I have exactly zero time for you.

I'm done listening to these lunatics. And I'm done engaging with the rage monsters trying to waste my time. I'm going over, around, and through these dipshits from now on. And you should, too.

So when the ranting maniac pops up in the comment thread to slobber about Antifa, or George Soros, or "you can't regulate evil," don't give him what he wants. Don't give him your time.

ESPECIALLY since we now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there are better ways to spend that time. Call your Congressman. Call your Senator, your Governor. See, THAT works. Arguing with the dumbass trolls on Facebook didn't sink the GOP health care bill, targeted, sustained activism did.

Bills don't pass on Twitter, folks.

So, do more of that thing that works, is what I'm saying. We're only just beginning to understand how powerful we are. Don't despair, don't waste time...get to work.

Don’t Let the Bastards Set the Terms of the Argument

This is an interesting OP'ed. I have a problem with it though. I agree that there is a lot of being disingenuous on the right. I also agree that humoring it puts the left at a disadvantage. The problem lies in the premise that stopping doing so will make it better. As so many things in politics its more complicated then that. First of one of the in my view correct assessments of a lot of liberals is a certain arrogance, something that I catch myself at on occasions. This will be exacerbated by marginalizing their viewpoints. Secondly, you have to be aware of why Republican politics is more effective at messaging then Democrats. They don't sell complicated. It's always easier to sell fear then it is to sell reason and we have to learn that being disingenuous is a weapon ,we should learn to sell our issues as black and white.

I agree with your end assessment. I've been saying this for years. We don't so much have to learn it as to do it. Nobody has more control of the messaging venue than pop culture America. If the music industry, television industry, movie industry, and sports industry used that to our advantage, the way they sell those venues, we would totally drown out all of right wing media, and marginalize it to only the lunatic fringe. The article very clearly spells out how those industries should start doing just that.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Sooooo...let's do something a little different tonight.

Let's talk about the battles we fight and the terms we fight them on.

Let's talk about the "Don't politicize the tragedy, this is a time for healing" crowd.

You don't need me to tell you this kind of talk isn't about "healing," or "respect for the dead." It's about being on the less popular side of a divisive issue, and the sad truth that while the public will howl for common-sense/seriously-how-fucking-dumb-are-we-to-let-this-keep-happening gun control measures for awhile, well, give it a few weeks, and we'll move on to the next thing, because that's what we always do.

So yeah. "This is a time for healing" REALLY means "Let's run out the clock, we don't care about the people who died, and we sure as shit don't care about the people who die in the next one. We just don't give a single fuck."

My whole news feed is full of decent, well-intentioned folks, from the highest halls of power on down to just regular people trying to do the right thing, navigating their way through this dumbass right-wing talking point as though it's a good-faith argument worthy of addressing.

"No, this IS the time to politicize the issue, because XYZ."

And so we get bogged down, bickering on their terms, which is, of course, the entire fucking purpose of the bullshit "argument" in the first place.

Why play along? It's obviously nothing but an empty talking point. Just raw, unfiltered, horseshit.

So TREAT IT like horseshit. Blow straight past it without bothering to notice the idiot spouting it.

"You shouldn't politicize the tragedy!"

"Lord, that's a stupid fucking thing to say. ANYHOW..."

We have to stop participating on their terms. Because the right wing is extremely good at this sort of messaging. This is how "end of life counseling" becomes "DEATH PANELS HOLY SHIT OBAMA WANTS TO UNPLUG GRAMMA AND PEE ON HER WHILE SHE DIES."

Great example of this is how the far-right media dealt with Charlottesville.

You'd think that when a bunch of white supremacist jags hold a rally with Nazi flags and swastika armbands, and their rally turns violent, and people wind up hurt and killed, choosing sides won't be particularly tricky.

But no. After two weeks in the lunatic right wing media spin cycle, suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST took a backseat to the supposed free-roving gangs of Antifa thugs who apparently prowl the streets of every American community, salivating at the chance to beat any innocent passing conservative to a bloody pulp.

And we dutifully played along. Do you remember this? NAZI TERRORIST in jail for MURDERING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, videos of white supremacists beating a black guy within an inch of his life, videos of Klansmen firing guns into crowds, and everyone on the left feels obligated to somberly agree that yes, Antifa is just as bad as the NAZI TERRORIST WHO KILLED SOMEBODY.

And, having been given an inch, the right gleefully takes their entirely-predictable mile. Now suddenly EVERYBODY who protests white supremacy gets swept up under the same heading; we're ALL "Antifa." The whole left. Suddenly the NAZI TERRORIST'S victim is "Antifa," and thus a violent, out-of-control thug who pretty much deserved what she got.

That's what happens when we let them set the terms of the debate. When we play by their rules.

Look at the all the disingenuous blather over the kneeling protests. As you can see from the fans who jeer players for kneeling BEFORE the anthem, this has not one minuscule fucking thing to do with "the flag," or "the troops" or "patriotism," it's entirely about a one group of people saying "Black Lives Matter" and the other responding, "No. They Don't."

And we all KNOW that. So let's stop wasting energy poking holes in the bullshit "argument" that's phony anyway.

"Black Lives Matter." "No. They Don't." That's the discussion that's ACTUALLY happening, the faux patriotism is just a flimsy shield because these fucks understand that even they can't get away with just saying "No, Your Lives Do Not Matter."

Why pretend we don't see the bullshit? Why dignify it? Why allow the argument to take place on such blatantly fraudulent terms? When you see bullshit, call it bullshit.

I know there's an impulse to engage. "Logic is on our side, surely that will win them over." This again, assumes good faith where it simply does not exist.

The vast majority of these types are not rational or reasonable, and therefore they aren't REACHABLE. You can throw airtight logic at them 'till the cows come home, and they'll still go right on believing that climate change is a hoax and that John Podesta runs a child sex slavery ring from the nonexistent basement of a pizza joint.

And you can point out "Oh, you claim to believe X, but Y proves you don't, hah hah!" So fucking what? No degree of hypocrisy can shame these people. We're talking about a "religious" right that bellows about morality when it comes to LGBT rights, or reproductive rights, but unhesitatingly endorses a moral black hole like Donald Trump. Mitch McConnell can inhale stealing a Supreme Court seat, and exhale "Democrats are practicing obstruction on an unprecedented scale" with a smile on his face. They just don't give a fuck.

WHATEVER THE ISSUE, the far right will find some excuse to demonize us, a fresh reason to hate us. Seriously. When presented with NAZI TERRORISM, they actually found a way to come out of a national tragedy hating us even more.

Cult45 doesn't MIND being a cult. They ENJOY being a cult. They're eager partners in their own brainwashing, in fact. They consume their demented, hateful, soul-warping media all day long, and honestly, they seem to enjoy it a great deal.

So I'm pretty much done politely respecting shit arguments offered in bad faith.

Fuck your feelings. You're the "more lives snuffed out? MEH." party, the "literally no number of human lives are more important to me than the NRA's bank account" movement. Your position is pro-murder, and I'm not going to call it anything else from here on out.

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

I won't waste one more moment on any of your ridiculous "guns don't kill people" blather, because I recognize it for what it is; a ludicrous distraction designed slow down those of us working for the changes necessary to protect human lives.

If you don't give a fuck about all this senseless loss of life, I guess I can't make you. You're broken. That's your fault, and your problem.

If you don't understand why we should work to prevent tens of thousands of completely avoidable deaths, it's because, frankly, you're a shit person. You fail at humanity. Cool. I have exactly zero time for you.

I'm done listening to these lunatics. And I'm done engaging with the rage monsters trying to waste my time. I'm going over, around, and through these dipshits from now on. And you should, too.

So when the ranting maniac pops up in the comment thread to slobber about Antifa, or George Soros, or "you can't regulate evil," don't give him what he wants. Don't give him your time.

ESPECIALLY since we now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there are better ways to spend that time. Call your Congressman. Call your Senator, your Governor. See, THAT works. Arguing with the dumbass trolls on Facebook didn't sink the GOP health care bill, targeted, sustained activism did.

Bills don't pass on Twitter, folks.

So, do more of that thing that works, is what I'm saying. We're only just beginning to understand how powerful we are. Don't despair, don't waste time...get to work.

Don’t Let the Bastards Set the Terms of the Argument

This is an interesting OP'ed. I have a problem with it though. I agree that there is a lot of being disingenuous on the right. I also agree that humoring it puts the left at a disadvantage. The problem lies in the premise that stopping doing so will make it better. As so many things in politics its more complicated then that. First of one of the in my view correct assessments of a lot of liberals is a certain arrogance, something that I catch myself at on occasions. This will be exacerbated by marginalizing their viewpoints. Secondly, you have to be aware of why Republican politics is more effective at messaging then Democrats. They don't sell complicated. It's always easier to sell fear then it is to sell reason and we have to learn that being disingenuous is a weapon ,we should learn to sell our issues as black and white.

I agree with your end assessment. I've been saying this for years. We don't so much have to learn it as to do it. Nobody has more control of the messaging venue than pop culture America. If the music industry, television industry, movie industry, and sports industry used that to our advantage, the way they sell those venues, we would totally drown out all of right wing media, and marginalize it to only the lunatic fringe. The article very clearly spells out how those industries should start doing just that.

You keep on thinking that, all the way to total irrelevancy.

 

[ChrisL]

Believing in rights and the natural right to defend myself using any means at my disposal is not a "lunatic fringe." You who wanting to allow the government the power to extinguish one of our rights is what is a "lunatic fringe" idea. The criminals and lunatics will still get the guns. Just like drug addicts STILL get the drugs. Just like during prohibition, people were STILL drinking alcohol, etc., etc., etc. The only people you harm are the law abiding people, like the elderly man who sued the city of Chicago for the right to defend himself against repeated assaults against him.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Obviously the Corrupt and Racist Democratic Party wants to protect their Criminals and Terrorist from armed victims

 

[ChrisL]

How can anyone trust one who wants the government to control their ability to defend themselves in any way that they can based on the actions of CRIMINALS who abuse their rights??? WTF is that about? So, I suppose you must support the idea of banning Muslim religion since it has been known to be the cause behind some committing acts of terrorism and other violence. Ban religion . . . is that next on the agenda?

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

A Nazicrat's wet dream is defenseless victims

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Dirty Democrats are on the side of Terrorist and Criminals

 

[skews13]

TL; DR

The article does require the intellectual capacity above a 5 year old so....

 

[Darkwind]

Oh look. progressive talking points. At least this poster waited for the bodies to cool before wanting to steal the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Perhaps if they actually come up with a solution that,

1. Does not infringe on the rights of the law abiding, and
2. Actually would work in keeping people from doing these kinds of things, because

background checks would not have worked in this situation, universal or otherwise and the weapons that the shooter had were already illegal and just one more stupid law about scary looking guns would not have made a difference.

So we have more whining like this with no solutions and in truth, the whole purpose of this thread is to moan and cry about not having a valid argument.

I'd offer up a tampon to the OP, but something tells Me he'd need several cases of them just for this month alone.

 

[ChrisL]

Just because some nuts abuse their freedom doesn't mean that the rest of us agree to sacrifice OUR freedoms. Fuck you. Freedom doesn't mean perfect. There are going to be people who do take advantage and abuse their freedoms, and only THEY are responsible for that. Not guns, not other people, certainly not law abiding people.

 

[forkup]

Believing in rights and the natural right to defend myself using any means at my disposal is not a "lunatic fringe." You who wanting to allow the government the power to extinguish one of our rights is what is a "lunatic fringe" idea. The criminals and lunatics will still get the guns. Just like drug addicts STILL get the drugs. Just like during prohibition, people were STILL drinking alcohol, etc., etc., etc. The only people you harm are the law abiding people, like the elderly man who sued the city of Chicago for the right to defend himself against repeated assaults against him.

I don't accept that premise that people with bad intentions always get what they want. The whole reason for instance terrorists in Europe are more and more using vehicles and knives as weapons of choice is that is actually not that easy to get a hold of guns. Both weapons in general are less effective means of killing people as guns are. I also think the whole,its in the constitution is a good argument. So was slavery. The constitution is a legal document and as such subject to changes as society identifies new problems and new moral questions.

 

[skews13]

Oh look. progressive talking points. At least this poster waited for the bodies to cool before wanting to steal the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Perhaps if they actually come up with a solution that,

1. Does not infringe on the rights of the law abiding, and
2. Actually would work in keeping people from doing these kinds of things, because

background checks would not have worked in this situation, universal or otherwise and the weapons that the shooter had were already illegal and just one more stupid law about scary looking guns would not have made a difference.

So we have more whining like this with no solutions and in truth, the whole purpose of this thread is to moan and cry about not having a valid argument.

I'd offer up a tampon to the OP, but something tells Me he'd need several cases of them just for this month alone.

Gotcha joe

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

 

[ChrisL]

Believing in rights and the natural right to defend myself using any means at my disposal is not a "lunatic fringe." You who wanting to allow the government the power to extinguish one of our rights is what is a "lunatic fringe" idea. The criminals and lunatics will still get the guns. Just like drug addicts STILL get the drugs. Just like during prohibition, people were STILL drinking alcohol, etc., etc., etc. The only people you harm are the law abiding people, like the elderly man who sued the city of Chicago for the right to defend himself against repeated assaults against him.

I don't accept that premise that people with bad intentions always get what they want. The whole reason for instance terrorists in Europe are more and more using vehicles and knives as weapons of choice is that is actually not that easy to get a hold of guns. Both weapons in general are less effective means of killing people as guns are. I also think the whole,its in the constitution is a good argument. So was slavery. The constitution is a legal document and as such subject to changes as society identifies new problems and new moral questions.

Nobody cares. Whether or not you accept the fact that I have certain inalienable rights is irrelevant to the fact that I have these rights. The Bill of Rights is about LIMITATIONS on government. Get it right.

 

[Darkwind]

Oh look. progressive talking points. At least this poster waited for the bodies to cool before wanting to steal the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Perhaps if they actually come up with a solution that,

1. Does not infringe on the rights of the law abiding, and
2. Actually would work in keeping people from doing these kinds of things, because

background checks would not have worked in this situation, universal or otherwise and the weapons that the shooter had were already illegal and just one more stupid law about scary looking guns would not have made a difference.

So we have more whining like this with no solutions and in truth, the whole purpose of this thread is to moan and cry about not having a valid argument.

I'd offer up a tampon to the OP, but something tells Me he'd need several cases of them just for this month alone.

Gotcha joe

Joe the Plumber put it quite succinctly: "Your dead kids don't trump my out-of-control insecurity and the resulting need I have to cling to a penis substitute." That's what these little turds believe.

Inconsistent and fear-based reasoning has never failed to underwhelm Me.