Don't be on the wrong side of history

[sealybobo]

Chris , you do understand the point made I assume? and that is socialized medicine does not have a positive impact on the economies of those nations and in fact their unemployment is as high as ours and in some cases such as Spain twice has high. So to make a statement that Govt. healthcare has a postive impact on the economy doesn't hold up to data. In fact when you look at the spending as a percent of GDP for those nations you will also see an every increasing tax burden on those nations that in some cases inflates unemployment even more. In some EU nations they spend clost on healthcare as a percent of GDP that we do on defense. While I'm sure that most people that support a Govt. mandated healthcare system are also under the impression that we as a nation should rid ourselves of all weapons and hold hands with the rest of the world and thereby have money to spend on healthcare, that thinking always indicates a clear lack of understading of constitution of the very nation in which they live.

We can either argue back and forth about why we can't or we can start talking about the MUSTS and go from there.

Getting costs down. A must.

Getting rid of pre existing conditions.

Not allowing the insurance providers to come up with new ways to jack up their prices

Covering everyone



Like the Auto company employees just went from $35 to $15 hr, the insurance company CEO's should start cutting their own salaries and lowering our costs. If they were smart, like the oil companies, they wouldn't push us too far.

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

The other side is fighting to keep the status quo. They did nothing the 6 years they were in charge. Now don't just blow that comment off. The Democrats tried to introduce healthcare reform bills to the floor and the GOP laughed at them. Now they want to go about fixing the problems, just in a different way? I don't believe them. Neither should you. The Democrats were elected to fix healthcare. This is the best solution. Hell, even the Dems tried to shit on single payer at first. Guys like Max Baucus didn't even want to give them a seat at the table. That should tell you that single payer is the best/only real option. Not a compromise, not a coop and certainly not a bill that the GOP or lobbyists help write.

We already know the insurance companies have gotten to the Democrats. Its only a matter of if the politicians fear they will lose their jobs if they don't get something passed. So they will pass some bullshit that won't work, and you wonder why government sucks. Get the god damned lobbyists out of washington. But that will never happen, so fuck it. I guess we will just stay with the status quo. Now if/when that happens, notice who will be laughing and happy. Willow Dive and Dude. All right wingers happy to stay with the status quo. So you want to find people who will disagree with me, there are three assholes right there.

And compromising on a strong public option is why nothing will get done. It has to be a strong public option. It needs to compete with the insurance companies to keep their costs down. Without this competition, they will keep jacking up their rates. And eventually the insurance companies should just go away. Go do something else. Go back to school. This is America. You can do it!! Quit whining. Sound familiar?

We need to take the for profits out of the equasion.

Or, there needs to be more competition. But they're all in collusion with each other. Its another monopoly like gas or electricity or banks. Sure they aren't true monopolies but you know what they're doing. Just like the capitalism we have sucks and the russian communism was corrupt.

We have said about communism, "its a good theory, but not good in practice". Well Capitalists are starting to give free market capitalism a bad name too. They want to socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

 

[Meister]

We can either argue back and forth about why we can't or we can start talking about the MUSTS and go from there.

Getting costs down. A must.

Getting rid of pre existing conditions.

Not allowing the insurance providers to come up with new ways to jack up their prices

Covering everyone



Like the Auto company employees just went from $35 to $15 hr, the insurance company CEO's should start cutting their own salaries and lowering our costs. If they were smart, like the oil companies, they wouldn't push us too far.

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

The other side is fighting to keep the status quo. They did nothing the 6 years they were in charge. Now don't just blow that comment off. The Democrats tried to introduce healthcare reform bills to the floor and the GOP laughed at them. Now they want to go about fixing the problems, just in a different way? I don't believe them. Neither should you. The Democrats were elected to fix healthcare. This is the best solution. Hell, even the Dems tried to shit on single payer at first. Guys like Max Baucus didn't even want to give them a seat at the table. That should tell you that single payer is the best/only real option. Not a compromise, not a coop and certainly not a bill that the GOP or lobbyists help write.

We already know the insurance companies have gotten to the Democrats. Its only a matter of if the politicians fear they will lose their jobs if they don't get something passed. So they will pass some bullshit that won't work, and you wonder why government sucks. Get the god damned lobbyists out of washington. But that will never happen, so fuck it. I guess we will just stay with the status quo. Now if/when that happens, notice who will be laughing and happy. Willow Dive and Dude. All right wingers happy to stay with the status quo. So you want to find people who will disagree with me, there are three assholes right there.

And compromising on a strong public option is why nothing will get done. It has to be a strong public option. It needs to compete with the insurance companies to keep their costs down. Without this competition, they will keep jacking up their rates. And eventually the insurance companies should just go away. Go do something else. Go back to school. This is America. You can do it!! Quit whining. Sound familiar?

We need to take the for profits out of the equasion.

Or, there needs to be more competition. But they're all in collusion with each other. Its another monopoly like gas or electricity or banks. Sure they aren't true monopolies but you know what they're doing. Just like the capitalism we have sucks and the russian communism was corrupt.

We have said about communism, "its a good theory, but not good in practice". Well Capitalists are starting to give free market capitalism a bad name too. They want to socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

Booboo, I just don't think the government could ever get it right with healthcare, for a numbert of reasons. I think they could get it right with oversight of the healthcare.
The rest of your rant goes in one ear and out the other. I've heard it so many times from you that it's just old, and your opinion. It's OK, I get it, but I feel differently than you. You have a good day booboo. Buy the way, spend some money and buy a computer for the condo, then we can diagree on the weekends.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't think there is one adult in America that disagrees with you on these points booboo. The difference is how do we get there, you say government, and the other side says it can be done without the government take over. Booboo there are more ways than just the government to get this done, and have the results that we all want.

The Private Insurance Bureaucracy has no interest in insuring older Americans - they're the ones making all the claims.

The Private Insurance Bureaucracy has no interest in covering pre-existing conditions, they're not profitable.

The only way to make it work, be it managed via a public bureaucracy or private bureaucracies is for We, The People to insist that the health-care pool of funds cover everyone who is willing to buy into the pool from cradle to grave, because cradle to 65 is when you put money into the pool and 65 to grave is when you claim benefits from the pool, at least in general terms.

Government involvement is necessary.

-Joe

Joe, Joe, we're in agreement on this, I might not have clarified this. But, what I'm saying is not having a government take over of healthcare. I believe that the elderly will be the ones to suffer the most under government healthcare. But, I am all for government oversight in the healthcare industry. It can be done.

In the humble opinion of this average Joe, we need little government involvement in health care. Health care is a service industry that is best guided by competition, private enterprise and market forces... the government involvement is desperately needed in the private bureaucracies commonly referred to as health insurance.

Which do you want as your hired paper-pushers.....Million dollar executives with pet lobbyists or middle class bureaucrats?!?

-Joe

 

[Navy1960]

Congresswoman Barbara Lee criticized two Republican measures considered in the House this week, saying the bills fail to lower health care costs or do anything meaningful to provide access to health insurance to the more than 45 million Americans who are uninsured.

"These bills are nothing more than window dressing, designed to hide the fact that when it comes to our nation's healthcare crisis, Republican policies are more of a poison than a cure," said Lee. "These bills do nothing to reduce healthcare costs or provide significant coverage to the more than 45 million Americans who live in fear of getting sick, because they have no insurance and can't afford to go to the doctor."

H.R.525, which the House considered on Tuesday, is designed to create Association Health plans and allow businesses to purchase health insurance policies at lower rates. According to the Congressional Budget Office, however, millions of small business would actually see their health insurance premiums increase due to cost shifting and cherry picking by AHPs.


Lee also criticized H.R. 5, a measure to limit medical malpractice awards, particularly citing provisions that exempt drug makers from liability for products approved by the FDA.

"Not only does this measure limit the rights of legitimate malpractice victims, it fails to address insurance industry abuses and does nothing to lower healthcare costs," said Lee.
American Chronicle | Rep. Lee Slams Republican Healthcare Bills

sealy please don't make blanket statements that one party is exactly right and the other is exactly wrong.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Notice how their arguments have gotten really vague and lame after Obama came on tv and gave the facts? Yesterday they were saying all kinds of lies and today they have fallen back to their bullshit arguments of, "you're just whiners who want handouts".

These guys are sooo scared that their healthcare is going to get worse because everyone is going to be covered. And they think their costs are going to go up.

They don't realize that is impossible. We are gettin ripped off right now.

I see reading comphrension is not your strong suit.

I just see you guys are ganging up on my boy Chris.

One question. Do you guys all meet each morning and discuss what position you will all take? Because you guys all seem to be right on message everyday.

Whether its:

You're just looking for a handout or
Socialism or
obama works for the man too or
who's responsible for you or
Real Americans.

It's like you all get an email each day telling you exactly what to say.

same can be said for you and your "boy" Chrissy Bo.....just sayin...

 

[Oddball]

In the humble opinion of this average Joe, we need little government involvement in health care. Health care is a service industry that is best guided by competition, private enterprise and market forces... the government involvement is desperately needed in the private bureaucracies commonly referred to as health insurance.

Which do you want as your hired paper-pushers.....Million dollar executives with pet lobbyists or middle class bureaucrats?!?

-Joe

Problem being is that gubbament involvement and regulation has quashed competition, by allowing states to prohibit shopping out of state for insurance.

 

[AVG-JOE]

In the humble opinion of this average Joe, we need little government involvement in health care. Health care is a service industry that is best guided by competition, private enterprise and market forces... the government involvement is desperately needed in the private bureaucracies commonly referred to as health insurance.

Which do you want as your hired paper-pushers.....Million dollar executives with pet lobbyists or middle class bureaucrats?!?

-Joe

Problem being is that gubbament involvement and regulation has quashed competition, by allowing states to prohibit shopping out of state for insurance.

Proving that there is a huge difference between 'bad' government involvement and 'good' government involvement.

In theory, the difference is 'We', as in 'We', The People.

-Joe

 

[Arawyn]

In the humble opinion of this average Joe, we need little government involvement in health care. Health care is a service industry that is best guided by competition, private enterprise and market forces... the government involvement is desperately needed in the private bureaucracies commonly referred to as health insurance.

Which do you want as your hired paper-pushers.....Million dollar executives with pet lobbyists or middle class bureaucrats?!?

-Joe

Problem being is that gubbament involvement and regulation has quashed competition, by allowing states to prohibit shopping out of state for insurance.

Not to mention that government involvement (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) helped create a dependence upon insurance. Dependence upon insurance and government programs have a lion's share of blame in today's medical costs.

 

[Oddball]

BTW....Has Christine linked to the post where I allegedly lied and the evidence to prove it??

 

[Arawyn]

BTW....Has Christine linked to the post where I allegedly lied and the evidence to prove it??

Not that I've seen.

 

[hjmick]

BTW....Has Christine linked to the post where I allegedly lied and the evidence to prove it??

You're kidding, right?

 

[Oddball]

No, I'm not.

If Christine has any proof that I did in fact lie, I'm all too willing to confront the evidence and clear the air.

 

[AVG-JOE]

In the humble opinion of this average Joe, we need little government involvement in health care. Health care is a service industry that is best guided by competition, private enterprise and market forces... the government involvement is desperately needed in the private bureaucracies commonly referred to as health insurance.

Which do you want as your hired paper-pushers.....Million dollar executives with pet lobbyists or middle class bureaucrats?!?

-Joe

Problem being is that gubbament involvement and regulation has quashed competition, by allowing states to prohibit shopping out of state for insurance.

Not to mention that government involvement (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) helped create a dependence upon insurance. Dependence upon insurance and government programs have a lion's share of blame in today's medical costs.

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

 

[Oddball]

Problem being is that gubbament involvement and regulation has quashed competition, by allowing states to prohibit shopping out of state for insurance.

Not to mention that government involvement (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) helped create a dependence upon insurance. Dependence upon insurance and government programs have a lion's share of blame in today's medical costs.

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

The largest part of the high costs of insurance are the captive customers they have because you cannot shop out of state.

If I wanted to cut my food and fuel bills, I damn shure wouldn't put Washinton politicians and bureaucrats in charge of them.

 

[DiveCon]

Problem being is that gubbament involvement and regulation has quashed competition, by allowing states to prohibit shopping out of state for insurance.

Not to mention that government involvement (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) helped create a dependence upon insurance. Dependence upon insurance and government programs have a lion's share of blame in today's medical costs.

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

you seem to forget that a lot of those costs are passed on from medicare/medicaid to the private insurance companies

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not to mention that government involvement (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) helped create a dependence upon insurance. Dependence upon insurance and government programs have a lion's share of blame in today's medical costs.

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

The largest part of the high costs of insurance are the captive customers they have because you cannot shop out of state.

If I wanted to cut my food and fuel bills, I damn shure wouldn't put Washinton politicians and bureaucrats in charge of them.

Good point, but would you buy lower cost food / fuel if the same stuff you were buying now were available from another source for 20% less?

Would you band together with your neighbors to share the cost of a sewage treatment facility big enough to take care of the whole neighborhood, instead of having everyone spend three times as much to buy or develop their own smaller plants?

Good government is not rocket science. Demand an end to professional lobbying.

-Joe

 

[Oddball]

The largest part of the high costs of insurance are the captive customers they have because you cannot shop out of state.

If I wanted to cut my food and fuel bills, I damn shure wouldn't put Washinton politicians and bureaucrats in charge of them.

Good point, but would you buy lower cost food / fuel if the same stuff you were buying now were available from another source for 20% less?

Would you band together with your neighbors to share the cost of a sewage treatment facility big enough to take care of the whole neighborhood, instead of having everyone spend three times as much to buy or develop their own smaller plants?

Good government is not rocket science. Demand an end to professional lobbying.

-Joe

Apples and atom bombs.....Water and sewer is a local deal and some of that is even privatized.

Professional lobbying isn't the problem....Politicians selling their power to those lobbyists is.

If you don't want politicians to be bought, take away what they're selling.

 

[Meister]

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

The largest part of the high costs of insurance are the captive customers they have because you cannot shop out of state.

If I wanted to cut my food and fuel bills, I damn shure wouldn't put Washinton politicians and bureaucrats in charge of them.

Good point, but would you buy lower cost food / fuel if the same stuff you were buying now were available from another source for 20% less?

Would you band together with your neighbors to share the cost of a sewage treatment facility big enough to take care of the whole neighborhood, instead of having everyone spend three times as much to buy or develop their own smaller plants?

Good government is not rocket science. Demand an end to professional lobbying.

-Joe

Lobbying will not end in yours or my lifetime Joe...that's the reality.

I think our government is trying to write a check it can't cover. We will not still get the quality of care that we have now with a government run healthcare system. The healthcare Doctors as a profession will wane, as people that would have gotten into the profession will go where the money is. The specialists will be at a decline because of the time and money they need to seek a specialist position..just won't be payoff in the end for them. Also, there will be less of them needed in a government run healthcare system.
No matter what the left says....people come to our country for life saving treatment that they can't get in a timely manner in their own country which has government run universal healthcare. We have a much higher survival rate with cancers, and heart disease because of the low wait time for tests and procedures.
But like I stated, I'm all for government oversight that will help reduce the cost and get the people who need insurance their just due. We have to eliminate frivolous lawsuites against the industry. Another poster mentioned with illegals, get them stabilized and deport them. We can't afford our citizens, and Mexico's also.

 

[Arawyn]

Not to mention that government involvement (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) helped create a dependence upon insurance. Dependence upon insurance and government programs have a lion's share of blame in today's medical costs.

Untrue. Medical costs are not the problem... insurance costs are. Private bureaucracies spend 20 to 25 cents of your health care dollar on overhead and profits. Social Security, the best example of a public insurance company, spends less than 1 cent of your FICA tax dollar to administer the program.

If you could cut your food bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your fuel bill by 19 - 24%, would you?

If you could cut your taxes by 19 - 24%, would you?

It's not rocket science. Demand an end to professional, mercenary lobbying by the private insurance bureaucracies.

-Joe

you seem to forget that a lot of those costs are passed on from medicare/medicaid to the private insurance companies

Ding, ding, ding!!!

Because costs must be absorbed in someway, AND the government (medicare/medicaid) have made not costs adjustments in over ten years. Furthermore, insurances also drive down costs, which get passed to the uninsured. Not to mention, government programs do not pay timely.

 

[manu1959]

The bankrupt Medicare/Medicaid and nearly bankrupt Social Security are being touted as evidence of success??

Desperation really must be setting in!

At least he didn't mention Amtrak.

or the us post office........