Does everyone realize....

[daveman]

"You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money"

Does that go both ways? When small business owners complain about taxes or regulation just tell them that if they don't like go work for someone else? Is this the reply that that can be given to business owners for all their sacrifices?

See my earlier link about the CME Group leaving Illinois. Yes, that's what the state is telling companies.

You keep beating your dog, don't be surprised when it runs away.

 

[spectrumc01]

Wow...I can see you know almost nothing about owning a small business.
Nothing.

Wow, how about filling me in then? Why are you a business owner instead of a worker? I told you this is from a workers point of view. Whats your point of view? Small little comments like that won't help workers see your point. It just re-enforces the belief that you think you are above us because we just don't get it.

I have a feeling that you will never see the "other side" - because you obviously have a "us vs. them" mentality.

But maybe I like to waste my time so I will try anyhow...

It is basic human psychology.
Everything you do, from picking your nose to picking out a spouse to deciding whether you want lemonade or tea - EVERYTHING you do is a balance between two things - hopes of gaining a positive incentive or avoiding a negative incentive. If there is one sentence that could explain why people do - what they do - it is simply weighing the two and coming to a decision.

So - between being a worker or an owner this basic human rule applies perfectly.
OWNING A BUSINESS....or WORKER.
(I) = incentive..(D) = disincentive.

(I) - being your own boss - (D) far greater responsibility
(I) - higher wages - (D) much longer hours
(I) - satisfaction of owning something - (D) Risk of owning something
(I) - higher income - (D) High personal risk
(I) nicer home etc. - (D) very little free time, spending late hours in home office and weekends at the office.
(I) vacations in nicer places - (D) working while you are on vacations.

The list goes on and on.
being an owner or a worker comes down to who accepts the high personal risk, long hours and in many cases extraordinary long hours - to achieve something that you yourself accomplished.

I see there are sacrifices for every gain. Like I said in the beginning, no one begrudeges them any of their profits, and the owner should make more and benefit more than the worker. If he is not than he needs to modify his plan. That is not the bitch. The bitch comes in when the divide grows larger and larger. The owner profits more and more, while asking the worker to sacrifice more and more. This is the complaint, the growing divide. The excuses from the employer holds no water, Taxes - business owners have already said taxes don't effect them. Worker compensation is too high - doesn't hold water when the worker has had a pay freeze for several years, and is loosing his benefits every month. How would you fix the widening gap? from a business owners point of view? First I guess I have to ask, do you you even see a widening gap? And yes I really am trying to see your side. And thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.

 

[Smash_Hits]

Wow...I can see you know almost nothing about owning a small business.
Nothing.

Wow, how about filling me in then? Why are you a business owner instead of a worker? I told you this is from a workers point of view. Whats your point of view? Small little comments like that won't help workers see your point. It just re-enforces the belief that you think you are above us because we just don't get it.

I have a feeling that you will never see the "other side" - because you obviously have a "us vs. them" mentality.

But maybe I like to waste my time so I will try anyhow...

It is basic human psychology.
Everything you do, from picking your nose to picking out a spouse to deciding whether you want lemonade or tea - EVERYTHING you do is a balance between two things - hopes of gaining a positive incentive or avoiding a negative incentive. If there is one sentence that could explain why people do - what they do - it is simply weighing the two and coming to a decision.

So - between being a worker or an owner this basic human rule applies perfectly.
OWNING A BUSINESS....or WORKER.
(I) = incentive..(D) = disincentive.

(I) - being your own boss - (D) far greater responsibility
(I) - higher wages - (D) much longer hours
(I) - satisfaction of owning something - (D) Risk of owning something
(I) - higher income - (D) High personal risk
(I) nicer home etc. - (D) very little free time, spending late hours in home office and weekends at the office.
(I) vacations in nicer places - (D) working while you are on vacations.

The list goes on and on.
being an owner or a worker comes down to who accepts the high personal risk, long hours and in many cases extraordinary long hours - to achieve something that you yourself accomplished.

I think you're ignoring the fact that not every person has the choice to move up in ran, business-wise. I think almost everyone would trade higher responsibility for higher benefits, but not everyone, can a multitude of reasons including race, class, ability, and just plain luck. And don't give me that bullshit about people that are low-wage workers being lazy. They aren't lazy, they are disadvantaged and disillusioned.

 

[spectrumc01]

Wow...I can see you know almost nothing about owning a small business.
Nothing.

Wow, how about filling me in then? Why are you a business owner instead of a worker? I told you this is from a workers point of view. Whats your point of view? Small little comments like that won't help workers see your point. It just re-enforces the belief that you think you are above us because we just don't get it.

The only proper response to your post is to call the Waaaahhhhhhmmmmbulance.

Are you a small business owner, worker, "Self employed", or just independantly wealthy?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Wow, how about filling me in then? Why are you a business owner instead of a worker? I told you this is from a workers point of view. Whats your point of view? Small little comments like that won't help workers see your point. It just re-enforces the belief that you think you are above us because we just don't get it.

I have a feeling that you will never see the "other side" - because you obviously have a "us vs. them" mentality.

But maybe I like to waste my time so I will try anyhow...

It is basic human psychology.
Everything you do, from picking your nose to picking out a spouse to deciding whether you want lemonade or tea - EVERYTHING you do is a balance between two things - hopes of gaining a positive incentive or avoiding a negative incentive. If there is one sentence that could explain why people do - what they do - it is simply weighing the two and coming to a decision.

So - between being a worker or an owner this basic human rule applies perfectly.
OWNING A BUSINESS....or WORKER.
(I) = incentive..(D) = disincentive.

(I) - being your own boss - (D) far greater responsibility
(I) - higher wages - (D) much longer hours
(I) - satisfaction of owning something - (D) Risk of owning something
(I) - higher income - (D) High personal risk
(I) nicer home etc. - (D) very little free time, spending late hours in home office and weekends at the office.
(I) vacations in nicer places - (D) working while you are on vacations.

The list goes on and on.
being an owner or a worker comes down to who accepts the high personal risk, long hours and in many cases extraordinary long hours - to achieve something that you yourself accomplished.

I think you're ignoring the fact that not every person has the choice to move up in ran, business-wise. I think almost everyone would trade higher responsibility for higher benefits, but not everyone, can a multitude of reasons including race, class, ability, and just plain luck. And don't give me that bullshit about people that are low-wage workers being lazy. They aren't lazy, they are disadvantaged and disillusioned.

Wow...you win the prize of the day for putting things in people's mouths and twisting what they say to fulfil your preconceived notions.

 

[boedicca]

Wow, how about filling me in then? Why are you a business owner instead of a worker? I told you this is from a workers point of view. Whats your point of view? Small little comments like that won't help workers see your point. It just re-enforces the belief that you think you are above us because we just don't get it.

The only proper response to your post is to call the Waaaahhhhhhmmmmbulance.

Are you a small business owner, worker, "Self employed", or just independantly wealthy?

You left out another option: Economically Literate.

 

[California Girl]

Are you a worker or business owner?

Naive??? then contribute to the education process?

Firstly, not everyone in the country is either a small business owner or a worker. So that is bullshit. Also, you make it sound as though the small business owners don't actually work, which is also bullshit.

You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money.

You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing.

I'm neither a small business owner nor a worker. I am self employed. I work for myself - no one else.

"You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money"

Does that go both ways? When small business owners complain about taxes or regulation just tell them that if they don't like go work for someone else? Is this the reply that that can be given to business owners for all their sacrifices?

"You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing."

Again that was their choice not ours, quit bitching.

Self employed eqauates out to small business with one employee...you.

Comparing paying employees to paying taxes is a ludicrous argument at best... blatant stupidity at best. You clearly have absolutely no idea about running a business.... you're just another little cog with a big chip on their shoulder.... one who 'hates' other people's success. Business owners work harder and longer than their employees, as a rule. They do that willingly, because they have a vested interest in their business. You are just an employee, an asset - or a liability - depending on the worker.

My Dad is one of those business owners you despise so much.... his employees adore him. Because he pays them well, treats them fairly, provides a great, and fun working environment.

 

[Smash_Hits]

I have a feeling that you will never see the "other side" - because you obviously have a "us vs. them" mentality.

But maybe I like to waste my time so I will try anyhow...

It is basic human psychology.
Everything you do, from picking your nose to picking out a spouse to deciding whether you want lemonade or tea - EVERYTHING you do is a balance between two things - hopes of gaining a positive incentive or avoiding a negative incentive. If there is one sentence that could explain why people do - what they do - it is simply weighing the two and coming to a decision.

So - between being a worker or an owner this basic human rule applies perfectly.
OWNING A BUSINESS....or WORKER.
(I) = incentive..(D) = disincentive.

(I) - being your own boss - (D) far greater responsibility
(I) - higher wages - (D) much longer hours
(I) - satisfaction of owning something - (D) Risk of owning something
(I) - higher income - (D) High personal risk
(I) nicer home etc. - (D) very little free time, spending late hours in home office and weekends at the office.
(I) vacations in nicer places - (D) working while you are on vacations.

The list goes on and on.
being an owner or a worker comes down to who accepts the high personal risk, long hours and in many cases extraordinary long hours - to achieve something that you yourself accomplished.

I think you're ignoring the fact that not every person has the choice to move up in ran, business-wise. I think almost everyone would trade higher responsibility for higher benefits, but not everyone, can a multitude of reasons including race, class, ability, and just plain luck. And don't give me that bullshit about people that are low-wage workers being lazy. They aren't lazy, they are disadvantaged and disillusioned.

Wow...you win the prize of the day for putting things in people's mouths and twisting what they say to fulfil your preconceived notions.

Maybe it was a bit presumptuous, but having heard that line so many times, I felt I needed to address it. Would you respond to my post now?

 

[boedicca]

Firstly, not everyone in the country is either a small business owner or a worker. So that is bullshit. Also, you make it sound as though the small business owners don't actually work, which is also bullshit.

You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money.

You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing.

I'm neither a small business owner nor a worker. I am self employed. I work for myself - no one else.

"You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money"

Does that go both ways? When small business owners complain about taxes or regulation just tell them that if they don't like go work for someone else? Is this the reply that that can be given to business owners for all their sacrifices?

"You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing."

Again that was their choice not ours, quit bitching.

Self employed eqauates out to small business with one employee...you.

Comparing paying employees to paying taxes is a ludicrous argument at best... blatant stupidity at best. You clearly have absolutely no idea about running a business.... you're just another little cog with a big chip on their shoulder.... one who 'hates' other people's success. Business owners work harder and longer than their employees, as a rule. They do that willingly, because they have a vested interest in their business. You are just an employee, an asset - or a liability - depending on the worker.

My Dad is one of those business owners you despise so much.... his employees adore him. Because he pays them well, treats them fairly, provides a great, and fun working environment.

I think he works at Noodles Restaurant:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M3DLGP4UKQ]YouTube - ‪Wisconsin Labor Protests and International Socialism‬‏[/ame]

 

[spectrumc01]

Firstly, not everyone in the country is either a small business owner or a worker. So that is bullshit. Also, you make it sound as though the small business owners don't actually work, which is also bullshit.

You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money.

You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing.

I'm neither a small business owner nor a worker. I am self employed. I work for myself - no one else.

"You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money"

Does that go both ways? When small business owners complain about taxes or regulation just tell them that if they don't like go work for someone else? Is this the reply that that can be given to business owners for all their sacrifices?

"You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing."

Again that was their choice not ours, quit bitching.

Self employed eqauates out to small business with one employee...you.

Comparing paying employees to paying taxes is a ludicrous argument at best... blatant stupidity at best. You clearly have absolutely no idea about running a business.... you're just another little cog with a big chip on their shoulder.... one who 'hates' other people's success. Business owners work harder and longer than their employees, as a rule. They do that willingly, because they have a vested interest in their business. You are just an employee, an asset - or a liability - depending on the worker.

My Dad is one of those business owners you despise so much.... his employees adore him. Because he pays them well, treats them fairly, provides a great, and fun working environment.

Oh, I get it now. You are a spoiled little rich girl who is living off her "Daddy" and you will fall into the independantly wealthy catagory when you inherit everything he worked for. Your dad sounds like a good guy and an employer who values his employees. You on the other hand....

 

[California Girl]

"How far above the rest of us do you need to be before you feel comfortable?"

That is a very sad question and not at all applicable to any employer I know and have been. Perhaps a better question for you to ask would be, "how far beneath the rest of us do I need to go before I feel any self-esteem?"

The OP justifies his inferiority by blaming others, in this case small business owners. This is easier than recognizing his own failure. He is a typical borg of the Obamanation.

 

[spectrumc01]

The only proper response to your post is to call the Waaaahhhhhhmmmmbulance.

Are you a small business owner, worker, "Self employed", or just independantly wealthy?

You left out another option: Economically Literate.

Economically literate? No just trying to see where your opinion comes from. It helps when trying to understand someone. You, however are making it difficult to understand your point of view.

 

[boedicca]

My point of view is that you are a class warfare stooge who has no idea of the masters he is serving by supporting such nonsense.

 

[California Girl]

"You're a worker - you provide a service and you get paid for it. If you are not satisfied with the pay, find another job that pays you more money"

Does that go both ways? When small business owners complain about taxes or regulation just tell them that if they don't like go work for someone else? Is this the reply that that can be given to business owners for all their sacrifices?

"You also fail to recognize that the business owner faces far more responsibility than you do. That owner is responsible for the overall success or failure of their company. And it is their business - they own it, they invest their money, time, expertise and take on the risk. You risk nothing, you invest nothing."

Again that was their choice not ours, quit bitching.

Self employed eqauates out to small business with one employee...you.

Comparing paying employees to paying taxes is a ludicrous argument at best... blatant stupidity at best. You clearly have absolutely no idea about running a business.... you're just another little cog with a big chip on their shoulder.... one who 'hates' other people's success. Business owners work harder and longer than their employees, as a rule. They do that willingly, because they have a vested interest in their business. You are just an employee, an asset - or a liability - depending on the worker.

My Dad is one of those business owners you despise so much.... his employees adore him. Because he pays them well, treats them fairly, provides a great, and fun working environment.

Oh, I get it now. You are a spoiled little rich girl who is living off her "Daddy" and you will fall into the independantly wealthy catagory when you inherit everything he worked for. Your dad sounds like a good guy and an employer who values his employees. You on the other hand....

Yea, that's right.... My family are wealthy.... therefore I must be spoiled.

Fact is I pay my own mortgage, and bills, and everything I have, I earned. My parents paid for my education - for which I am eternally grateful. Eventually, he'll hand his business over to my brother - who will run it the same way Dad does.... and the rest of us will remain shareholders (like we are already).... and we will continue to support him in running the business the way OUR FAMILY decides it should be run. My Dad is not an island - his attitudes are our attitudes... because he taught us his ethics and his principles. It is not 'his company', it belongs to our family. We all play a part in the decision making.

Idiot.

 

[spectrumc01]

"How far above the rest of us do you need to be before you feel comfortable?"

That is a very sad question and not at all applicable to any employer I know and have been. Perhaps a better question for you to ask would be, "how far beneath the rest of us do I need to go before I feel any self-esteem?"

It's not a sad question at all. Most people who are focused have a tendency to operate with blinders on to achieve their goals. Nothing wrong with that. The drawback to the blinders is that they forget about what they are doing to everyone else. Its like the jockey who whip his horse to go faster to win the race. In his desire to win he forgets about the horse and ends up whipping it to death. Self-esteem has nothing to do with it until the worker has given everything he has to give to his employer and then finds out the employer wants even more, down to the last drop of blood.

You say you have been an owner. I hope you achieved everything you wanted to achieve, and I don't begrudge you anything. I'm sure some of your employees liked you and some didn't, some were justified and some weren't.

 

[spectrumc01]

Comparing paying employees to paying taxes is a ludicrous argument at best... blatant stupidity at best. You clearly have absolutely no idea about running a business.... you're just another little cog with a big chip on their shoulder.... one who 'hates' other people's success. Business owners work harder and longer than their employees, as a rule. They do that willingly, because they have a vested interest in their business. You are just an employee, an asset - or a liability - depending on the worker.

My Dad is one of those business owners you despise so much.... his employees adore him. Because he pays them well, treats them fairly, provides a great, and fun working environment.

Oh, I get it now. You are a spoiled little rich girl who is living off her "Daddy" and you will fall into the independantly wealthy catagory when you inherit everything he worked for. Your dad sounds like a good guy and an employer who values his employees. You on the other hand....

Yea, that's right.... My family are wealthy.... therefore I must be spoiled.

Fact is I pay my own mortgage, and bills, and everything I have, I earned. My parents paid for my education - for which I am eternally grateful. Eventually, he'll hand his business over to my brother - who will run it the same way Dad does.... and the rest of us will remain shareholders (like we are already).... and we will continue to support him in running the business the way OUR FAMILY decides it should be run. My Dad is not an island - his attitudes are our attitudes... because he taught us his ethics and his principles. It is not 'his company', it belongs to our family. We all play a part in the decision making.

Idiot.

I was going to reply with sarcasm, but I am going to try and elevate the conversation. Do you think your opinion comes from being from a wealthy family? and would it have been different had your father been a factory worker instead?

This is where I will not return the name calling.

 

[Douger]

Man, the OP is embarrassingly naive.

Are you a worker or business owner?

Naive??? then contribute to the education process?

In my hood they are one in the same.One person, one door, 12-14 hours per day.
My butcher actually puts in about 17. He's American (with an A) Nica.
He drags a peone in every wed. to help butcher the pigs.
Speaking of which the little lady that runs the Husqvarna dealership should have my saw ready about now. Yep. Sells them, fixes them and rents them.It's the American way.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Walmart has GMO corn on sale !!!

 

[spectrumc01]

My point of view is that you are a class warfare stooge who has no idea of the masters he is serving by supporting such nonsense.

This has nothing to do with class warfare, this has to do with the majority of business owners not sharing in the sacrifices of their workers.

While serving in the military during Desert Storm our platoon sargent for the first week burned shit from the latrines because it had to be done. After the first week he then moved down the chain of command making all of his NCO's burn shit as well. When it got down to the enlisted no one complained or griped because we all saw he wasn't just passing the buck. He was willing to work alongside his troops. He was well respected, and we would do anything he asked. This is what workers look for in an employer.

 

[boedicca]

This has nothing to do with class warfare, this has to do with the majority of business owners not sharing in the sacrifices of their workers.

Why do you hate the owner of Noodles Restaurant so much? Is it because he expects you to be at work on time and to do the job he asks you to do?

You sad little booby. You have provided no proof that the majority of business owners are not sharing the sacrifices of their workers. You are just spewing class warfare nonsense.

 

[California Girl]

Oh, I get it now. You are a spoiled little rich girl who is living off her "Daddy" and you will fall into the independantly wealthy catagory when you inherit everything he worked for. Your dad sounds like a good guy and an employer who values his employees. You on the other hand....

Yea, that's right.... My family are wealthy.... therefore I must be spoiled.

Fact is I pay my own mortgage, and bills, and everything I have, I earned. My parents paid for my education - for which I am eternally grateful. Eventually, he'll hand his business over to my brother - who will run it the same way Dad does.... and the rest of us will remain shareholders (like we are already).... and we will continue to support him in running the business the way OUR FAMILY decides it should be run. My Dad is not an island - his attitudes are our attitudes... because he taught us his ethics and his principles. It is not 'his company', it belongs to our family. We all play a part in the decision making.

Idiot.

I was going to reply with sarcasm, but I am going to try and elevate the conversation. Do you think your opinion comes from being from a wealthy family? and would it have been different had your father been a factory worker instead?

This is where I will not return the name calling.

My family were not always wealthy, that's my Dad that achieved that for us. He comes from an Irish American family of workers. We were taught to value work, and to earn our own way in the world. You are very judgmental of what other people are - based on your own prejudices.... I find that shallow and narrow minded. Coming from a privileged background does not make me any better or worse than you.