Does Almighty God approve of the Wall?

[Billy_Kinetta]

Without a wall there’s no Walmart.

Or walnuts.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Or walruses.

 

[Blackrook]

The only wall I can think of in the Bible is the Wall of Jericho. I guess God didn't like that wall because he gave specific instructions to the Hebrews how to knock it down.

 

[Asclepias]

Sure.

In fact, in His own realm, He has installed a wall to wit :"And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels," according to reports in the bible.

Compare with his rival, Satan, who has no wall in his realm, just a gate welcoming new immigrants.

This story is about the heaven to be. Not the current one. Why would god need a wall in heaven?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 21 - New International Version

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.”"

" And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

 

[Asclepias]

But Congressman Guitterez has told me that the refuge baby Jesus hates walls.

I can agree with that.

If Trump gets his wall I hope they at least position one of those giant inflatable apes on American side facing Mexico.

​

but that would be racist

I agree. Why do they try and make animals have blue eyes instead of their natural color? They want people to assume they are in agreement with white people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

St Paul's Letter to the Romans, chapter 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 Peter chapter 2
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

 

[airplanemechanic]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

You're misinterpreting the bible.

God says to obey the gov't. as he put it there.

Bible instructs followers to obey the government

Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

Nowhere does the bible say that God says to obey his law and ignore man's laws. You're making that shit up. You will always lose against me in Bible studies. I used to lead a bible study group.

Game. Set. Match. Thanks for playing.

 

[Skylar]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

You're misinterpreting the bible.

God says to obey the gov't. as he put it there.

Bible instructs followers to obey the government

Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

Nowhere does the bible say that God says to obey his law and ignore man's laws. You're making that shit up.

And I'll be citing the last few posts in the 'Are we free' thread when folks start talking about religion as a primer for freedom.

Religion is and pretty much always has been about control.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Christianity doesn't try to control anyone.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The only wall I can think of in the Bible is the Wall of Jericho. I guess God didn't like that wall because he gave specific instructions to the Hebrews how to knock it down.

Book of Exra, chapter 9
8 “But now, for a brief moment, the Lord our God has been gracious in leaving us a remnant and giving us a firm place[a] in his sanctuary, and so our God gives light to our eyes and a little relief in our bondage. 9 Though we are slaves, our God has not forsaken us in our bondage. He has shown us kindness in the sight of the kings of Persia: He has granted us new life to rebuild the house of our God and repair its ruins, and he has given us a wall of protection in Judah and Jerusalem.

Nehemiah chapter 2
17 Then I said to them, “You see the trouble we are in: Jerusalem lies in ruins, and its gates have been burned with fire. Come, let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, and we will no longer be in disgrace.


Nehemiah chapter 12
27 At the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem, the Levites were sought out from where they lived and were brought to Jerusalem to celebrate joyfully the dedication with songs of thanksgiving and with the music of cymbals, harps and lyres.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Christianity doesn't try to control anyone.

But Christians who are duly appointed with authority within the government do enforce it's laws.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Yes but being a LEO and a Christian are not mutually inclusive. You can be one or the other without being both.

 

[WheelieAddict]

What your God wants has nothing to do with the laws or policies of the United States of America. We are not a theocracy.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

St Paul's Letter to the Romans, chapter 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

In that bit, it literally says there is no authority except that which has been established. Second bolded print refers to God's own authority. As I mentioned, and you refused to acknowledge, Jesus and his followers were rebelling against their government in the New Testament. Are you calling Jesus a sinner?

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

I didn't realize Hitler was serving God when he gassed the Jews. You sure showed me.

Also, you talk about these politicians, taking the fruits of our labor as if they're doing something noble, what's noble about taking someone's money and spending it as they see fit?

Also, there's nothing noble about ruling people, they're granting themselves permission to restrict our rights, kidnap us, imprison us, murder us, steal from us. There's no nobility in government.

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

That's in reference to God's own law, not some arbitrary law which changes based on ruler and geographical location. You clearly didn't bother reading my post since you're still on about this PRATT.

1 Peter chapter 2
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Referring to not making trouble, not telling you to put government before God.

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

Believing that verse is telling you to obey the fake authority of the robbers, kidnappers, and murderers in Government over god only shows that you're part of the Cult of the Omnipotent State. I showed other verses which state that the followers of Jesus submit themselves to God, not the Government. You ignored them because your God isn't the Christian God, it's Government.

In this verse, he specifies that he's wanting you to do good, NOT conflating the Government's will WITH good, and telling you to be a mindless Government drone. Taking this to mean what you think it means would have meant that you would have been among the Nazis killing the Jews during the Holocaust, or the Roman Soldiers crusifying Jesus Christ. The will of the HUMANS, the FLAWED HUMANS in government doesn't come before God. However, feel free to argue that it does. Go for it.

18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Again, not referring to every work of government as good, or an extension of his will, only not to break the law needlessly. Jesus and his followers went against the government because they were unethical.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Completely unrelated. Apparently you thought that throwing in random unrelated verses would prove your fake point that Government is somehow inherently just and comes before God. Watch the video in my signature.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

You're misinterpreting the bible.

God says to obey the gov't. as he put it there.

Bible instructs followers to obey the government

Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

Nowhere does the bible say that God says to obey his law and ignore man's laws. You're making that shit up. You will always lose against me in Bible studies. I used to lead a bible study group.

Game. Set. Match. Thanks for playing.

I don't know what screwed up Bible you're copying from, but I linked the full verse. Changing the verse doesn't make your point.

It's fine, though, I already know statists worship the Government before God.

Also, feel free to ignore all of the verses I linked instead of addressing them, then declare your own victory. That's how you win debates, fool.

Since you're apparently a slow one, I'll spell it out for you again: Your Lord and Savior Government demands you do something unethical, and against God's clearly stated commands, which do you follow? If you do as Government says, you have disobeyed God. If you do as God says, you disobeyed God. If, hypothetically, your clearly false interpretation of the Bible were the case, your JUST God has created a paradox in which it's impossible for you to obey his laws, in which case you believe in an unjust God.

 

[JimBowie1958]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

St Paul's Letter to the Romans, chapter 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

In that bit, it literally says there is no authority except that which has been established. Second bolded print refers to God's own authority. As I mentioned, and you refused to acknowledge, Jesus and his followers were rebelling against their government in the New Testament. Are you calling Jesus a sinner?

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

I didn't realize Hitler was serving God when he gassed the Jews. You sure showed me.

Also, you talk about these politicians, taking the fruits of our labor as if they're doing something noble, what's noble about taking someone's money and spending it as they see fit?

Also, there's nothing noble about ruling people, they're granting themselves permission to restrict our rights, kidnap us, imprison us, murder us, steal from us. There's no nobility in government.

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

That's in reference to God's own law, not some arbitrary law which changes based on ruler and geographical location. You clearly didn't bother reading my post since you're still on about this PRATT.

1 Peter chapter 2
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Referring to not making trouble, not telling you to put government before God.

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

Believing that verse is telling you to obey the fake authority of the robbers, kidnappers, and murderers in Government over god only shows that you're part of the Cult of the Omnipotent State. I showed other verses which state that the followers of Jesus submit themselves to God, not the Government. You ignored them because your God isn't the Christian God, it's Government.

In this verse, he specifies that he's wanting you to do good, NOT conflating the Government's will WITH good, and telling you to be a mindless Government drone. Taking this to mean what you think it means would have meant that you would have been among the Nazis killing the Jews during the Holocaust, or the Roman Soldiers crusifying Jesus Christ. The will of the HUMANS, the FLAWED HUMANS in government doesn't come before God. However, feel free to argue that it does. Go for it.

18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Again, not referring to every work of government as good, or an extension of his will, only not to break the law needlessly. Jesus and his followers went against the government because they were unethical.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Completely unrelated. Apparently you thought that throwing in random unrelated verses would prove your fake point that Government is somehow inherently just and comes before God. Watch the video in my signature.

This is one of the reasons I dropped my plans to enter the clergy, anyone can twist the Bible into any meaning they want and be completely satisfied that they have not misread it.

We are to obey the government except where it commands us to violate God's Law or our conscience.

No on e has ever said anything differently and yet you blow up this smoke screen to allow you to believe what ever you want, lol.

This discussion is over as far as I am concerned as you are not discussing the subject honestly.

 

[Likkmee]

But Congressman Guitterez has told me that the refuge baby Jesus hates walls.

He may. But the son of Gods name is Yeshua

 

[anotherlife]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

If the government tells you when you sin, then you ignore the laws of the Holly Spirit and you become godless, and an enemy of God. So the government cuts you off your only escape, repentance.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

God always says to follow the laws. Anyone breaking the laws is committing a sin. God hates sin. Therefore God is for a wall.

In case anyone ever wondered how God felt about it when Nero was slaughtering Jews, or Hitler was gassing the Jews. Your argument is silly, because it's an argument for ethics to be applied based on civilization and geographical location, in which case you support "Might Makes Right" ethics or Arbitrary Ethics, rather than Objective Ethics.

What God actually said was that none shall be before God, and when he was referring to Law, he was referring to his own law, not the Laws of some ruler, especially since there were rulers in opposition to God. God even stated when the Israelites asked for a king, that they were not rejecting the Judges, but rejecting God. God saw the use of a ruler as placing one before him. In the same passage in which you would be referring to(
Romans 13:1-14), God plainly states that there is no authority before God. What was being said is that he is always the governing authority. In other words, the rule of man doesn't exist to God.

Galatians 3:11 ESV
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 5:29 ESV / 77 helpful votes
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

In fact, throughout the New Testament, Jesus and his Apostles are fighting the "Law" every step away, the Pharisees were ENEMIES, as they were trying to hinder Jesus, and had twisted the laws to suit their own ends.

St Paul's Letter to the Romans, chapter 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

In that bit, it literally says there is no authority except that which has been established. Second bolded print refers to God's own authority. As I mentioned, and you refused to acknowledge, Jesus and his followers were rebelling against their government in the New Testament. Are you calling Jesus a sinner?

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

I didn't realize Hitler was serving God when he gassed the Jews. You sure showed me.

Also, you talk about these politicians, taking the fruits of our labor as if they're doing something noble, what's noble about taking someone's money and spending it as they see fit?

Also, there's nothing noble about ruling people, they're granting themselves permission to restrict our rights, kidnap us, imprison us, murder us, steal from us. There's no nobility in government.

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

That's in reference to God's own law, not some arbitrary law which changes based on ruler and geographical location. You clearly didn't bother reading my post since you're still on about this PRATT.

1 Peter chapter 2
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Referring to not making trouble, not telling you to put government before God.

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

Believing that verse is telling you to obey the fake authority of the robbers, kidnappers, and murderers in Government over god only shows that you're part of the Cult of the Omnipotent State. I showed other verses which state that the followers of Jesus submit themselves to God, not the Government. You ignored them because your God isn't the Christian God, it's Government.

In this verse, he specifies that he's wanting you to do good, NOT conflating the Government's will WITH good, and telling you to be a mindless Government drone. Taking this to mean what you think it means would have meant that you would have been among the Nazis killing the Jews during the Holocaust, or the Roman Soldiers crusifying Jesus Christ. The will of the HUMANS, the FLAWED HUMANS in government doesn't come before God. However, feel free to argue that it does. Go for it.

18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Again, not referring to every work of government as good, or an extension of his will, only not to break the law needlessly. Jesus and his followers went against the government because they were unethical.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Completely unrelated. Apparently you thought that throwing in random unrelated verses would prove your fake point that Government is somehow inherently just and comes before God. Watch the video in my signature.

This is one of the reasons I dropped my plans to enter the clergy, anyone can twist the Bible into any meaning they want and be completely satisfied that they have not misread it.

We are to obey the government except where it commands us to violate God's Law or our conscience.

No on e has ever said anything differently and yet you blow up this smoke screen to allow you to believe what ever you want, lol.

This discussion is over as far as I am concerned as you are not discussing the subject honestly.

I discuss all subjects honestly, your problem is that you believe that God has set up rulers for us, despite interpreting the request for a King as a rejection of God. I suspect you fail many a connect-the-dots activity.

 

[Likkmee]

Unwalled (39 Occurrences)