Documents: Obama and Ayers Shared Office Space For Three Years

[newpolitics]

Its called being a politician in America. There is no way for them to appeal to half of the country at the same time without fudging the truth a lot.

Exactly. Those who have an idealized vision of John McCain as some beacon of truth are a bit naive. That guy lies like the rest of them. Being a politician is a lot like dodging land mines. Make the wrong step, and you piss a lot of people off. Sure, Barack has made some mistakes. McCain has too, bigtime. You can't judge a canidate only by his mistakes.

So what that Barack once knew Ayers? I mean, seriously. Can someone please explain this to me, because I don't care at ALL that he did. First of all, it was a very limited relationship. He didn't START his career in the guys living room. That's only republican spin. Get your fucking facts straight. It's not a big deal. You're all just making it one because you have nothing else to talk about, and you want your guy to win so bad, that your willing to lie to do it, and believe your own lies, and the lies the media tells you. Country first? Your ass. You just want your canidate to win. You only care about yourself and what your canidate will bring you. You don't care about the country.

 

[The Paperboy]

First of all, it was a very limited relationship. He didn't START his career in the guys living room. That's only republican spin. Get your fucking facts straight.

The Illinois State Senator who "sponsored" Obama to replace her says that Obama's campaign began at Ayers' home and that it was an Ayers' event. Another attendee (a doctor) concurred. If you have different information post it but don't blow off the facts that CNN reported as "Republican spin".

You may not care that Obama allied himself with Ayers but many other do.

 

[Larkinn]

I have edited the title. The point is the building was very small and the chances they didn't interact is remote which further proves Obama was dishonest when he said Ayer's was "just a guy in the neighborhood".

Really? The building was very small? How large was the building exactly?

Any objective observer would have to conclude that Ayers and Obama had a close relationship based on the facts as follows:

a. Ayers wrote the educational grant for 50 million from Annenberg.
b. Obama was hired as Chairperson to administer the Annenberg grant (despite no background in educational matters)
c. Obama and Ayer's wives worked at the same law firm.
d. Ayers and Obama served together on the Woods Foundation.
e. Ayers mentions Obama in his book.
f. Obama praised Ayers' book in Chicago newspaper.
g. Obam and Ayers appeared together at least twice at U of I seminars one of which Michelle helped put on.
h. Obama directed some of the Annenberg money to Ayer's own school project.

Just to point out one particular absurdity I noticed

c) Are you referring to Sidley Austin? One of the largest law firms in the United States? The one with 1,800 lawyers? I have friends who will be working there, are they connected to Ayers as well?

Ayers and Obama were both publicly active community servants in the Chicago area focused on similar issues. Of course they would be in similar circles. That doesn't mean that they were bff.

 

[N4mddissent]

Here you go, Paperboy some lies by McCain. By the way, I made sure that these criticisms came from a conservative source, so you might think they're a little more balanced. (because we know moving to the right is actually the center these days).
Link

What about a man who would admittedly lie about his position and compromise his principles for political gain? John McCain April 2000:

The Arizona senator expressed regret for that stance on Wednesday, telling the audience of Republicans: "I feared that if I answered honestly, I could not win the South Carolina primary. So I chose to compromise my principles."

Now most reasonable people think this is a foolish discussion and a distraction from more important issues (me included), but I want you to know I accept that your personal opinion is that voting for someone who is blatantly dishonest is stupid. And sense by your account Obama has been dishonest, and there is much evidence provided that McCain has been dishonest, I respect your decision to not vote. Unless you're stupid.

 

[The Paperboy]

Here you go, Paperboy some lies by McCain. By the way, I made sure that these criticisms came from a conservative source, so you might think they're a little more balanced. (because we know moving to the right is actually the center these days).
Link

What about a man who would admittedly lie about his position and compromise his principles for political gain? John McCain April 2000:


Now most reasonable people think this is a foolish discussion and a distraction from more important issues (me included), but I want you to know I accept that your personal opinion is that voting for someone who is blatantly dishonest is stupid. And sense by your account Obama has been dishonest, and there is much evidence provided that McCain has been dishonest, I respect your decision to not vote. Unless you're stupid.

I respect McCain for being remorseful. It shows class. I would respect Obama were he ever to do the same about his blatant attempt to mislead the American people not to mention Democratic primary voters.

 

[The Paperboy]

Really? The building was very small? How large was the building exactly?

The site has been demolished. A Google earth photo of where the address is would make the 3rd floor appear to be around 50 x 50.

Link for photo and other info here

 

[The Paperboy]

Are you referring to Sidley Austin? One of the largest law firms in the United States? The one with 1,800 lawyers? I have friends who will be working there, are they connected to Ayers as well?

Ayers and Obama were both publicly active community servants in the Chicago area focused on similar issues. Of course they would be in similar circles. That doesn't mean that they were bff.

Fair enough but TRY to be objective and connect the dots:

a. Obama is hired to disburse over 50 million dollars that Ayers got the grant for yet Obama had no background in education. That's a lot of money to hand over to someone you don't know very well.
b. They spoke together on the same stage at least twice for U of I. Michelle helped organize one of the events.
c. Ayers mentions Obama in his book. Obama publicly praises the book.
d. They work together on the Woods Foundation.
e. Ayers' holds a political event in his house for Obama.
f. Obama disburses money to Ayers' school project.
g. They work on the same floor in a small building for three years.

Now come on now, be objective. Obama's been caught red handed lying to the American people. And this is just what we know now. What else don't we know?

 

[N4mddissent]

I respect McCain for being remorseful.

Was he remorseful about the lies he told during this campaign that I linked to?
If he lied for political reasons in 2000 and has lied again this year does that indicate true remorse?

a. Obama is hired to disburse over 50 million dollars that Ayers got the grant for yet Obama had no background in education. That's a lot of money to hand over to someone you don't know very well.

I notice you are very careful to not say that Ayers hired Obama to distribute the money, just mentioned that Ayers helped get the grant. The truth is that the board of the Annenberg Challenge in Chicago was chosen by Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. It was Deborah Leff, president of the Joyce Foundation (another education group) who suggested Barack Obama to be chairman of the board. Bill Ayers had no say in it whatsoever. All he did was help get the initial grant. Now anyone reading your talking point would have no idea about this and would much more likely be left with the impression that Ayers put Obama in charge. If you make a statement that is more likely to leave someone with an incorrect perception than a fuller understanding, then that statement is misleading and dishonest. Either you are being intentionally dishonest, or you copied these points from somewhere else. If the latter is the case, then I hope you realize that others hold you in low regard to feed you dishonest material.

They spoke together on the same stage at least twice for U of I. Michelle helped organize one of the events.

So? Obama and McCain have shared lots of stages together. Is McCain considered associated with everyone he's ever shared a stage more than once with?

c. Ayers mentions Obama in his book. Obama publicly praises the book.

Once again, while it may be factually true, one would read this and get the impression that Ayers talked extensively about Obama and their friendly relationship and Obama was on the book tour hawking the damn thing. Obama is mentioned in a list of names of people who lived in Ayers neighborhood. I'm sorry but you're either functionally illiterate or you understand that it's an irrelevant mention and just want to mislead people. Why not say that Obama's name is mentioned in a list of people who live in Ayers neighborhood. Instead of Obama publicly praised the book, why not say Obama provided a short blurb for the cover of the book. Those states are factual as well. Not only factual, but specific. The only reason to use vague descriptions is to exaggerate the implications.

d. They work together on the Woods Foundation.

This is just stupid and not worth commenting on. Can you imagine for example, a school teacher who goes to apply for a federal position requiring security clearance and suddenly she finds herself denied the job and being charged with perjury because another teacher at the school she worked at years ago was a wanted criminal and she had stated that she had no close relationship to any criminals on her application. This absurd scenario is what this crap is trying to sell as legitimate inquiry.

Ayers' holds a political event in his house for Obama.

What are the facts? We know Ayers invited a dozen or so people to his house. While there, Alice Palmer stated she would like Barack Obama to succeed her in the state senate seat she was vacating. Later, the formal announcement that Obama would run was made at a Ramada hotel.

You see, facts, specifics, and no speculation on motivation or random assertions.

Obama disburses money to Ayers' school project.

You'll have to link me on this one. A little to vague to even be sure what the hell you're talking about.

They work on the same floor in a small building for three years.

Which means...?

Look.
1st. Give me solid evidence of when Obama knew about Ayers' past. If he didn't find out unitl Ayers comments in 2001, then he only associated with a "known" terrorist for less than a year and that only included a few meetings as members of the same board.
2nd. You have two people who live in the same neighborhood, are active in the same social circles, and both working in the specialized area of public education in the limited geography of Chicago. Yet, if Obama fails to mention any single time they interacted for which someone believes they may have evidence, and the response is immediately that he's not being "completely" honest. He must be hiding something. It's ridiculous. You claim that perhaps Obama is hiding something, when the reasonable conclusion is that the contacts were really not important or influential enough to make an impression in Obama. That conclusion is reasonable since after Obama left the education scene in Chicago, he had virtually no contact with Ayers- not really the way one treats a mentor and friend who made a deep and lasting impression.
3rd. Explain to me why you believe the entire state of Illinois is devoid of anyone with any sense of responsibility or civic duty. You must feel that way...how else would you explain the fact that Ayers and Obama are both well known in Chicago and Illinois poilitics yet they let Obama become one of their 2 US senators...one of the most powerful positions in the federal government and even more precious to their specific state, without anyone raising a hint of alarm or concerning about Obama and this domestic terrorist.
4. Mentioning this without applying the same standard to McCain's relationship with G.Gordon Liddy makes you an unqualified hypocrite.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Just a guy in the hood...

Link here

I share office space with people whose NAMES I don't even know. This thread is fucking retarded.

 

[The Paperboy]

Was he remorseful about the lies he told during this campaign that I linked to?
If he lied for political reasons in 2000 and has lied again this year does that indicate true remorse?



I notice you are very careful to not say that Ayers hired Obama to distribute the money, just mentioned that Ayers helped get the grant. The truth is that the board of the Annenberg Challenge in Chicago was chosen by Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. It was Deborah Leff, president of the Joyce Foundation (another education group) who suggested Barack Obama to be chairman of the board. Bill Ayers had no say in it whatsoever. All he did was help get the initial grant. Now anyone reading your talking point would have no idea about this and would much more likely be left with the impression that Ayers put Obama in charge. If you make a statement that is more likely to leave someone with an incorrect perception than a fuller understanding, then that statement is misleading and dishonest. Either you are being intentionally dishonest, or you copied these points from somewhere else. If the latter is the case, then I hope you realize that others hold you in low regard to feed you dishonest material.



So? Obama and McCain have shared lots of stages together. Is McCain considered associated with everyone he's ever shared a stage more than once with?


Once again, while it may be factually true, one would read this and get the impression that Ayers talked extensively about Obama and their friendly relationship and Obama was on the book tour hawking the damn thing. Obama is mentioned in a list of names of people who lived in Ayers neighborhood. I'm sorry but you're either functionally illiterate or you understand that it's an irrelevant mention and just want to mislead people. Why not say that Obama's name is mentioned in a list of people who live in Ayers neighborhood. Instead of Obama publicly praised the book, why not say Obama provided a short blurb for the cover of the book. Those states are factual as well. Not only factual, but specific. The only reason to use vague descriptions is to exaggerate the implications.



This is just stupid and not worth commenting on. Can you imagine for example, a school teacher who goes to apply for a federal position requiring security clearance and suddenly she finds herself denied the job and being charged with perjury because another teacher at the school she worked at years ago was a wanted criminal and she had stated that she had no close relationship to any criminals on her application. This absurd scenario is what this crap is trying to sell as legitimate inquiry.


What are the facts? We know Ayers invited a dozen or so people to his house. While there, Alice Palmer stated she would like Barack Obama to succeed her in the state senate seat she was vacating. Later, the formal announcement that Obama would run was made at a Ramada hotel.

You see, facts, specifics, and no speculation on motivation or random assertions.



You'll have to link me on this one. A little to vague to even be sure what the hell you're talking about.



Which means...?

Look.
1st. Give me solid evidence of when Obama knew about Ayers' past. If he didn't find out unitl Ayers comments in 2001, then he only associated with a "known" terrorist for less than a year and that only included a few meetings as members of the same board.
2nd. You have two people who live in the same neighborhood, are active in the same social circles, and both working in the specialized area of public education in the limited geography of Chicago. Yet, if Obama fails to mention any single time they interacted for which someone believes they may have evidence, and the response is immediately that he's not being "completely" honest. He must be hiding something. It's ridiculous. You claim that perhaps Obama is hiding something, when the reasonable conclusion is that the contacts were really not important or influential enough to make an impression in Obama. That conclusion is reasonable since after Obama left the education scene in Chicago, he had virtually no contact with Ayers- not really the way one treats a mentor and friend who made a deep and lasting impression.
3rd. Explain to me why you believe the entire state of Illinois is devoid of anyone with any sense of responsibility or civic duty. You must feel that way...how else would you explain the fact that Ayers and Obama are both well known in Chicago and Illinois poilitics yet they let Obama become one of their 2 US senators...one of the most powerful positions in the federal government and even more precious to their specific state, without anyone raising a hint of alarm or concerning about Obama and this domestic terrorist.
4. Mentioning this without applying the same standard to McCain's relationship with G.Gordon Liddy makes you an unqualified hypocrite.

Be honest: Switch the names Obama and Ayers with McCain and David Dukes and you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[xsited1]

Obama shared a church with a racist, anti-american pastor, yet didn't know anything about him.

 

[The Paperboy]

I share office space with people whose NAMES I don't even know. This thread is fucking retarded.

It's not one thing. Connect the dots. Obama allied himself with Ayers. He should man it up and admit it instead of being a coward and tap dancing around it.

 

[random3434]

I LOVED the movie "Office Space!"

 

[elvis]

Obama shared a church with a racist, anti-american pastor, yet didn't know anything about him.

amazing, isn't it?

 

[The Paperboy]

Obama shared a church with a racist, anti-american pastor, yet didn't know anything about him.

Come on now. He only went to Church twice a month for 20 years. Cut the man some slack. He probably fell asleep during the anti American parts.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Obama allied himself with Ayers.t.

No he doesn't.

 

[The Paperboy]

I share office space with people whose NAMES I don't even know. This thread is fucking retarded.

In a 50 x 50 space???

 

[elvis]

No he doesn't.

you wouldn't call them close friends?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

you wouldn't call them close friends?

No.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

In a 50 x 50 space???

Its probably 50x75. Before that I was in a smaller office with more people and knew even a smaller percentage of their names.