Do Social Conditions Overwhelm the Importance of Intelligence?

[IanC]

I have repeatedly been called a racist for believing intelligence is the strongest contributing factor in social outcomes, and indeed is probably the the main reason why blacks (on average) perform so poorly on practically all social traits.

If there was a study of children from stable and affluent homes, equal in SES, access to education and other environmental factors but unequal in IQ, what would you IQ deniers predict for the social outcomes of those children? Obviously those who proclaim that only cultural factors count should predict that there will be no difference.

The reality is that the more intelligent siblings dramatically outperformed their duller counterparts. In ratios that mimic the results of everyday reality.

a previous thread asked if racists were stupid. if racism is defined as noticing that the races have differing cognitive abilities infuencing different social outcomes then I ask the question 'are equalitarians stupid?' because they blythly ignore the vast preponderance of evidence showing that there are racial differences and different racial outcomes.

 

[uscitizen]

The media overwhelms intelligence.

 

[Ravi]

Please repeat in english.

I think an excellent experiment would be to swap two siblings from the ghetto with two siblings from suburbia and at the end of eighteen years administer IQ tests.

 

[syrenn]

Social conditions are a contributing factor in education. Intelligence requires training, nurturing and desire to learn.

 

[Annie]

I have repeatedly been called a racist for believing intelligence is the strongest contributing factor in social outcomes, and indeed is probably the the main reason why blacks (on average) perform so poorly on practically all social traits.

If there was a study of children from stable and affluent homes, equal in SES, access to education and other environmental factors but unequal in IQ, what would you IQ deniers predict for the social outcomes of those children? Obviously those who proclaim that only cultural factors count should predict that there will be no difference.

The reality is that the more intelligent siblings dramatically outperformed their duller counterparts. In ratios that mimic the results of everyday reality.

a previous thread asked if racists were stupid. if racism is defined as noticing that the races have differing cognitive abilities infuencing different social outcomes then I ask the question 'are equalitarians stupid?' because they blythly ignore the vast preponderance of evidence showing that there are racial differences and different racial outcomes.

Nothing stands alone.

A genius IQ in lower performing school. Kid excels. Shot down while walking home-social factor wins.

 

[IanC]

I have repeatedly been called a racist for believing intelligence is the strongest contributing factor in social outcomes, and indeed is probably the the main reason why blacks (on average) perform so poorly on practically all social traits.

If there was a study of children from stable and affluent homes, equal in SES, access to education and other environmental factors but unequal in IQ, what would you IQ deniers predict for the social outcomes of those children? Obviously those who proclaim that only cultural factors count should predict that there will be no difference.

The reality is that the more intelligent siblings dramatically outperformed their duller counterparts. In ratios that mimic the results of everyday reality.

a previous thread asked if racists were stupid. if racism is defined as noticing that the races have differing cognitive abilities infuencing different social outcomes then I ask the question 'are equalitarians stupid?' because they blythly ignore the vast preponderance of evidence showing that there are racial differences and different racial outcomes.

Nothing stands alone.

A genius IQ in lower performing school. Kid excels. Shot down while walking home-social factor wins.

Really? How many kids get shot walking home? 50%, 5%, 0.0005%? Reality says that that is not a normal outcome. Nor do most kids, even most black kids, live in the ghetto.

Life in an average school, an average neighbourhood, an average job shows that smarter individuals do better than duller individuals.

 

[IanC]

Please repeat in english.

I think an excellent experiment would be to swap two siblings from the ghetto with two siblings from suburbia and at the end of eighteen years administer IQ tests.

There have been adoption studies showing that black babies growing up in superior households exhibit better performance as children which slowly fades away until theyresemble their birth parents much more than their adopted parents by the time they are adults. Head Start programs show the same fade away, only sooner.

 

[IanC]

Social conditions are a contributing factor in education. Intelligence requires training, nurturing and desire to learn.

I concur that there are more factors than just intelligence. That does not prove that intelligence is not a main factor. Intelligence is also there even if it is not measured or nurtured.

 

[syrenn]

Social conditions are a contributing factor in education. Intelligence requires training, nurturing and desire to learn.

I concur that there are more factors than just intelligence. That does not prove that intelligence is not a main factor. Intelligence is also there even if it is not measured or nurtured.

Intelligence is not a "race" thing unless you mean the human race.

 

[uscitizen]

Are we losing the human race?

 

[Ravi]

Please repeat in english.

I think an excellent experiment would be to swap two siblings from the ghetto with two siblings from suburbia and at the end of eighteen years administer IQ tests.

There have been adoption studies showing that black babies growing up in superior households exhibit better performance as children which slowly fades away until theyresemble their birth parents much more than their adopted parents by the time they are adults. Head Start programs show the same fade away, only sooner.

Those studies have pretty much been debunked.

Sure you don't want to volunteer for the experiment with some of your kids? Would finally put this issue to rest.

 

[IanC]

Social conditions are a contributing factor in education. Intelligence requires training, nurturing and desire to learn.

I concur that there are more factors than just intelligence. That does not prove that intelligence is not a main factor. Intelligence is also there even if it is not measured or nurtured.

Intelligence is not a "race" thing unless you mean the human race.

I have repeatedly stated that an individual black can have any level of intelligence. That does not change the fact that blacks as a group show a lower average than other groups which leads to lower social outcomes when referenced against the standards of western civilization. Brain power, not racism is what holds blacks back. And as racism declines it is becoming more clear that whites are not the cause of black problems.

 

[Luissa]

Go back to AWE.

 

[syrenn]

I concur that there are more factors than just intelligence. That does not prove that intelligence is not a main factor. Intelligence is also there even if it is not measured or nurtured.

Intelligence is not a "race" thing unless you mean the human race.

I have repeatedly stated that an individual black can have any level of intelligence. That does not change the fact that blacks as a group show a lower average than other groups which leads to lower social outcomes when referenced against the standards of western civilization. Brain power, not racism is what holds blacks back. And as racism declines it is becoming more clear that whites are not the cause of black problems.

You have to many issues going here at one time.

Blacks as a "group" also show little to no desire to advance within the education program. Brain power and or intelligence does not equate with apathy.

 

[IanC]

Please repeat in english.

I think an excellent experiment would be to swap two siblings from the ghetto with two siblings from suburbia and at the end of eighteen years administer IQ tests.

There have been adoption studies showing that black babies growing up in superior households exhibit better performance as children which slowly fades away until theyresemble their birth parents much more than their adopted parents by the time they are adults. Head Start programs show the same fade away, only sooner.

Those studies have pretty much been debunked.

Sure you don't want to volunteer for the experiment with some of your kids? Would finally put this issue to rest.

Debunked? I think not. Please feel free to link up your studies that show adopted kids resemble their adopted parents as adults or that Head Start programs show permanent results.

 

[IanC]

Go back to AWE.

What does AWE mean?

 

[Annie]

I have repeatedly been called a racist for believing intelligence is the strongest contributing factor in social outcomes, and indeed is probably the the main reason why blacks (on average) perform so poorly on practically all social traits.

If there was a study of children from stable and affluent homes, equal in SES, access to education and other environmental factors but unequal in IQ, what would you IQ deniers predict for the social outcomes of those children? Obviously those who proclaim that only cultural factors count should predict that there will be no difference.

The reality is that the more intelligent siblings dramatically outperformed their duller counterparts. In ratios that mimic the results of everyday reality.

a previous thread asked if racists were stupid. if racism is defined as noticing that the races have differing cognitive abilities infuencing different social outcomes then I ask the question 'are equalitarians stupid?' because they blythly ignore the vast preponderance of evidence showing that there are racial differences and different racial outcomes.

Nothing stands alone.

A genius IQ in lower performing school. Kid excels. Shot down while walking home-social factor wins.

Really? How many kids get shot walking home? 50%, 5%, 0.0005%? Reality says that that is not a normal outcome. Nor do most kids, even most black kids, live in the ghetto.

Life in an average school, an average neighbourhood, an average job shows that smarter individuals do better than duller individuals.

Define average. Average intelligence? Average families regarding SES? Average for what?

 

[Annie]

Social conditions are a contributing factor in education. Intelligence requires training, nurturing and desire to learn.

In the main I agree. There are exceptions. The Teddy Kennedy. The Bill Clinton. Both were not really predictable, defying the odds.
Same with the kid born of a single, junkie mom. There are those that excel.

 

[IanC]

Nothing stands alone.

A genius IQ in lower performing school. Kid excels. Shot down while walking home-social factor wins.

Really? How many kids get shot walking home? 50%, 5%, 0.0005%? Reality says that that is not a normal outcome. Nor do most kids, even most black kids, live in the ghetto.

Life in an average school, an average neighbourhood, an average job shows that smarter individuals do better than duller individuals.

Define average. Average intelligence? Average families regarding SES? Average for what?

are you trying to nitpick? in this context it means all of us who are not extraordinary, the vast majority of us who are not blessed (or cursed) with some special talent or circumstance that markedly sets someone apart. every day is an IQ test. how you drive, how you spend your money, how you do your job. smarter people typically make better choices and less mistakes and that adds up, especially over a lifetime.

 

[IanC]

Imagine several hundred families which face few of the usual problems that plague modern society. Unemployment is zero. Illegitimacy is zero. Divorce is rare and occurs only after the children's most formative years. Poverty is absent - indeed, none of the families is anywhere near the poverty level. Many are affluent and all have enough income to live in decent neighbourhoods with good schools and a low crime rate. If you have the good fortune to come from such a background, you will expect a bright future for your children. You will certainly have provided them with all the advantages society has to offer. But suppose we follow the children of these families into adulthood. How will they actually fare?

A few years ago the late Richard Herrnstein and I published a controversial book about IQ, The Bell Curve, in which we said that much would depend on IQ. On average, the bright children from such families will do well in life - and the dull children will do poorly. Unemployment, poverty and illegitimacy will be almost as great among the children from even these fortunate families as they are in society at large - not quite as great, because a positive family background does have some good effect, but almost, because IQ is such an important factor.

"Nonsense!" said the critics. "Have the good luck to be born to the privileged and the doors of life will open to you - including doors that will let you get a good score in an IQ test. Have the bad luck to be born to a single mother struggling on the dole and you will be held down in many ways - including your IQ test score." The Bell Curve's purported relationships between IQ and success are spurious, they insisted: nurture trumps nature; environment matters more than upbringing.

An arcane debate about statistical methods ensued. Then several American academics began using a powerful, simple way of testing who was right: instead of comparing individual children from different households, they compared sibling pairs with different IQs. How would brothers and sisters who were nurtured by the same parents, grew up in the same household and lived in the same neighbourhood, but had markedly different IQs, get on in life?

The research bears out what parents of children with unequal abilities already know - that try as they might to make Johnny as bright as Sarah, it is difficult, and even impossible, to close the gap between them.

IQ Will Put You In Your Place