Disappearing Worlds

[Old Rocks]

Do you live anywhere near the Chesapeake? Have you been on or around it multiple times a year? I don't care what your stats say I only care what my eyes saw and as a scientist my powers of observation are extremely acute. Now to be fair I haven't been near the bay since 2011 so things could have changed

Trump Tells Island Disappearing Into The Sea Not To Worry

Trumps idiocy has reached a higher level.

Uuummmmm....... Let's see here, Report and study "suggests"........ Tangier Island is losing residents...... Residents who's primary source of is crab and oyster fishing........

https://www.conservationgateway.org/Documents/CBF-BadWatersReport.pdf

It's also affected oysters in the bay.

Smith Island is suffering the same fate and residents say the island has been slowly shrinking for centuries.
As for Tangier Island shrinking there definitely is erosion mostly due to storms, the Chesapeake can be harsh at times and possibly some rise in sea levels, don't that know for a fact but my point is the real reason people are leaving the island, a major decline in their primary industry.

And the increasing erosion of the islands.

That's a postulation made by some and possibly partially true. I used to live in the DC metro area, for the last 40 + years the Chesapeake Bay has been constantly in the news specifically the crabbing and oyster industry that has been in serious decline due to over harvesting and the pollution in the bay. Having been on and hiked along the Chesapeake bay numerous times over those decades I personally noted no rise in water levels.

Well, you personally, do not seem to be a very accurate in your observations.

USGS Chesapeake Bay Activities Science Summary - Sea-Level Rise and Chesapeake Bay
Modern Sea-Level Rise

Two major factors contribute to global sea-level rise: thermal expansion from increasing ocean heat content, and the melting of glaciers and the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. Since about 2003, glaciers and ice sheets (fig. 2) have contributed a greater proportion of the global sea-level rise than thermal expansion (Meier and others, 2007; Cogley, 2009; Rignot, Bamber, and others, 2008; Rignot, Box, and others, 2008). Today’s glaciers and ice sheets store enough water to raise sea level by about 68 to 70 m. Calculated rates of global mean sea-level rise range from 1.7 to 3.2 mm/yr, depending on the time period examined (Cazenave and Llovel, 2010; Church and White, 2011). Detecting fluctuations in the rate of sea-level change can be difficult as a result of the short period of record of tide gages and chronological uncertainty in marsh paleo-sea-level studies (Larsen and Clark, 2006). Some key findings include:

• Chesapeake Bay tide-gage records and paleo-sea-level records from tidal marshes and the bay’s main stem, determined from sediment cores collected from 1995 to 2006 (fig. 1), show that rates of sea-level rise in Chesapeake Bay range from about 3.2 to 4.7 mm/yr depending on the location and period of record for each tide gage. These rates exceed the global average because the land is subsiding; therefore, the Chesapeake Bay area is more vulnerable than many other coastal regions to sea-level rise.
• The departure of sea-level trends in Chesapeake Bay from the global mean for the last century may not persist. Therefore, rates measured at tide gages do not necessarily reflect pre-20th century regional patterns, nor can they be expected to persist into the future.
  
• Estimates of local subsidence from groundwater withdrawal in parts of Virginia are 1.5 and 3.7 mm/yr for 1979–95 and 1982–95, respectively (Pope and Burbey, 2004). Subsidence is expected to increase with greater withdrawals.

[/QUOTE

I find the findings of the USGS to be far more trustworthy than the personal observations of an anonymous poster on a message board.

 

[Old Rocks]

And most of his fellow rightwing nitwits are just as idiotic.

So it would seem.

I find these abandoned places fascinating. I think that its the Celt in me. But its one thing to run out of fish and quite another to sink into the ocean because Trump is owned by the fossil fuel companies.

What the hell does this have to do with the fossil fuel companies?

Chief sources of the GHGs that are driving global warming are those fossil fuel companies.

 

[Old Rocks]

"Well, dumb shit, the problem is that we are the cause of the rising seas."

Hey Dumbshit! Dumbass! FaceFuck! HorseAss! Jackass! Morass! DivotBrain! MentalMoron! Idiopathic Troglodyte! You don't know the seas are rising much less what might be causing it. No one does, snootbrain. But guess what? At one time, all the water was bound up in ice and sea levels much lower. America was covered in glacier! Did we melt it? Nope! Glaciers come and glaciers go. Say it with me! Glaciers come and glaciers go. Do you think fossil fuels are contributing? Maybe. Maybe not. What's your solution, to plunge the world back to the 1750's and live by torch and gas lamp? Go to bed when it gets dark? Triple energy costs switching over to expensive alternate technologies and plunge the world into greater poverty? If you really hate civilization that much, nothing stopping you from moving to Borneo. I'll even front the ticket. Eventually in another hundred years or so, we will eventually improve technologies and ween ourselves off fossil fuels to cleaner alternatives and liberals can look to other arguments then why ice melts and things change, ITMT, same as with the argument against guns, smoking and fatty foods, if you are dumb enough to live at Sea Level where an inch rise in sea level is going to make or break your existence, maybe you ought to move! Or go the way of the Dodo bird and make more room for smarter people.

You see, if your argument holds true as promulgated on another thread that guns other people buy cost you money, that fatty foods others eat cost you money, and cigarettes others smoke costs you money and you shouldn't pick up the tab, THEN THE SAME ARGUMENT holds true for the assholes who choose to live 2 inches above sea level. WHY SHOULD I (and the rest of the world) pick up the tab for completely changing worldwide energy and industry or building a wall, etc., just for a problem YOU CAUSE by your desire to live at ocean's level??? ??? ??? You see, it is the same thing.

I know the Bay region very well, all my life I've had relatives out on the Delmarva Peninsula. Been on 50 and across the Bay Bridge a hundred times. Everything is fine down there unless you are stupid enough to live 5 inches above sea level. Me, I kinda like the idea of the Bay rising up------ MORE SEAFOOD FOR EVERYONE! But that just means that one of these days, a big storm surge will come in there from a hurricane and go right up the bay to DC and maybe wash out the entire Washington / Baltimore complex! Wash all the crooked politicians, rioters and looters out to sea never to be found again. A comforting thought. Ever think that maybe Tangiers Sound is SUPPOSED to be underwater? And maybe its brief, temporary appearance above water is the exception, not the rule.

"Its a pity that it isnt a billionaires playground. A solution would have been found"

There is that same old tired class-envy cry of the eternal victim. Solutions cost money you socialist. If you want the same solutions as the rich then maybe get off your fat ass and make more money, be productive, contribute more to society, then you can afford any solution you want, and the region will collect enough tax revenue from you and your rich friends to afford it.

You remain a stupid illiterate ass. The cost of renewable energy is now lower, in many cases, much lower, than even dirty coal. And the new grid scale batteries will soon make both 24/7. Both solar and wind already employ far more people than does coal.

As for rejecting technology, you are the one doing that. We are on the verge of manufacturing batteries that are have three to four times the storage capacity of the present best lithium ion batteries. And they will be built out of much cheaper materials. Then we will see EV's replacing the present ICE's.

As for me moving out of the nation, no way. You are the one unhappy with the way things are developing and wanting to go back to the 1800's.

 

[Ringel05]

Do you live anywhere near the Chesapeake? Have you been on or around it multiple times a year? I don't care what your stats say I only care what my eyes saw and as a scientist my powers of observation are extremely acute. Now to be fair I haven't been near the bay since 2011 so things could have changed

Uuummmmm....... Let's see here, Report and study "suggests"........ Tangier Island is losing residents...... Residents who's primary source of is crab and oyster fishing........

https://www.conservationgateway.org/Documents/CBF-BadWatersReport.pdf

It's also affected oysters in the bay.

Smith Island is suffering the same fate and residents say the island has been slowly shrinking for centuries.
As for Tangier Island shrinking there definitely is erosion mostly due to storms, the Chesapeake can be harsh at times and possibly some rise in sea levels, don't that know for a fact but my point is the real reason people are leaving the island, a major decline in their primary industry.

And the increasing erosion of the islands.

That's a postulation made by some and possibly partially true. I used to live in the DC metro area, for the last 40 + years the Chesapeake Bay has been constantly in the news specifically the crabbing and oyster industry that has been in serious decline due to over harvesting and the pollution in the bay. Having been on and hiked along the Chesapeake bay numerous times over those decades I personally noted no rise in water levels.

Well, you personally, do not seem to be a very accurate in your observations.

USGS Chesapeake Bay Activities Science Summary - Sea-Level Rise and Chesapeake Bay
Modern Sea-Level Rise

Two major factors contribute to global sea-level rise: thermal expansion from increasing ocean heat content, and the melting of glaciers and the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. Since about 2003, glaciers and ice sheets (fig. 2) have contributed a greater proportion of the global sea-level rise than thermal expansion (Meier and others, 2007; Cogley, 2009; Rignot, Bamber, and others, 2008; Rignot, Box, and others, 2008). Today’s glaciers and ice sheets store enough water to raise sea level by about 68 to 70 m. Calculated rates of global mean sea-level rise range from 1.7 to 3.2 mm/yr, depending on the time period examined (Cazenave and Llovel, 2010; Church and White, 2011). Detecting fluctuations in the rate of sea-level change can be difficult as a result of the short period of record of tide gages and chronological uncertainty in marsh paleo-sea-level studies (Larsen and Clark, 2006). Some key findings include:

• Chesapeake Bay tide-gage records and paleo-sea-level records from tidal marshes and the bay’s main stem, determined from sediment cores collected from 1995 to 2006 (fig. 1), show that rates of sea-level rise in Chesapeake Bay range from about 3.2 to 4.7 mm/yr depending on the location and period of record for each tide gage. These rates exceed the global average because the land is subsiding; therefore, the Chesapeake Bay area is more vulnerable than many other coastal regions to sea-level rise.
• The departure of sea-level trends in Chesapeake Bay from the global mean for the last century may not persist. Therefore, rates measured at tide gages do not necessarily reflect pre-20th century regional patterns, nor can they be expected to persist into the future.
  
• Estimates of local subsidence from groundwater withdrawal in parts of Virginia are 1.5 and 3.7 mm/yr for 1979–95 and 1982–95, respectively (Pope and Burbey, 2004). Subsidence is expected to increase with greater withdrawals.

[/QUOTE

I find the findings of the USGS to be far more trustworthy than the personal observations of an anonymous poster on a message board.

I'm happy for you, you should be pleased with yourself. I have more confidence in my personal observations than some report but like I said it was around eight or nine years ago, things could have changed since then besides, I'm only stating my personal observations over a couple of decades which obviously is not conclusive. Stop being so defensive, I'm not attacking your religion...........

 

[toobfreak]

You remain a stupid illiterate ass. The cost of renewable energy is now lower, in many cases, much lower, than even dirty coal. And the new grid scale batteries will soon make both 24/7. Both solar and wind already employ far more people than does coal.

As for rejecting technology, you are the one doing that. We are on the verge of manufacturing batteries that are have three to four times the storage capacity of the present best lithium ion batteries. And they will be built out of much cheaper materials. Then we will see EV's replacing the present ICE's.

As for me moving out of the nation, no way. You are the one unhappy with the way things are developing and wanting to go back to the 1800's.

Watch it, Rockhead, you may have big rocks for brains but I have a degree in electrical engineering so don't try to blow any of that bullshit up my ass about jobs, renewable energy or batteries 10X as good made out of banana peels! Save that for all your buddies on your favorite brain-dead liberal believe-anything website.

 

[toobfreak]

Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise

Ooo! Ooo! I got it!!! The ocean sea level is just rising around the Chesapeake Bay where all of the climate-whore fear-mongers live! As the condition develops, this imbalance in the weight of the ocean will cause the Earth to go egg-shaped, and the wobble will throw us out of orbit eventually careening us into the planet Neptune in the year 2063!

Now, now, seriously, I got this directly from Al Gore on good authority directly from my tinfoil skull cap!

 

[Old Rocks]

You remain a stupid illiterate ass. The cost of renewable energy is now lower, in many cases, much lower, than even dirty coal. And the new grid scale batteries will soon make both 24/7. Both solar and wind already employ far more people than does coal.

As for rejecting technology, you are the one doing that. We are on the verge of manufacturing batteries that are have three to four times the storage capacity of the present best lithium ion batteries. And they will be built out of much cheaper materials. Then we will see EV's replacing the present ICE's.

As for me moving out of the nation, no way. You are the one unhappy with the way things are developing and wanting to go back to the 1800's.

Watch it, Rockhead, you may have big rocks for brains but I have a degree in electrical engineering so don't try to blow any of that bullshit up my ass about jobs, renewable energy or batteries 10X as good made out of banana peels! Save that for all your buddies on your favorite brain-dead liberal believe-anything website.

The Beguiling Promise Of John Goodenough's New Battery Technology

Electricity is the most efficient transportation fuel – 10 kWhs is equivalent to about 40 miles per gallon, yet costs about a buck. Electricity is also the cleanest transportation fuel as long as it is generated from a non-fossil fuel source. But we still have to charge them too often to be convenient for travel over long distances.


Thus, Goodenough’s new solid-state battery cells are ideal for this use. Tripling an electric vehicle’s range from what it is now would put it in the realm of gasoline-powered cars, just what is necessary for the market in these vehicles to really take off.

Additionally, these solid-glass electrolytes can operate at -20°C (-4°F), so this type of battery allows a car to work in subzero degree weather. In fact, this design is the first all-solid-state battery that can operate in cold weather at all

The Beguiling Promise Of John Goodenough's New Battery Technology

Well fellow, when your achievements and reputation matches that of Goodenough's, get back with me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Trump Tells Island Disappearing Into The Sea Not To Worry

Trumps idiocy has reached a higher level.

They shouldn't worry because it won't impact Trump.

Just like global warming isn't happening because it's not too hot where Trump is.

 

[Old Rocks]

U.S. Clean Energy Jobs Surpass Fossil Fuel Employment
February 01, 2017 Lara Ettenson

The recently published Department of Energy 2017 U.S. Energy and Employment Report shows that clean electricity jobs are no doubt the engine that drives America’s electric energy economy, outstripping the number of paychecks provided by the fossil fuel industry by at least five to one. While that doesn’t mean fossil fuel generation is gone, it certainly means that if you are a politician looking for ways to grow jobs for the long term in your community, clean energy is the path to take.

Check Out the Numbers
All told, nearly 1 million Americans are working near- or full-time in the energy efficiency, solar, wind, and alternative vehicles sectors. This is almost five times the current employment in the fossil fuel electric industry, which includes coal, gas, and oil workers.

And if you add in those who only work part-time, such as a construction worker who doesn’t spend all his or her work hours installing energy efficient components like high-efficiency windows, the number jumps to nearly three million Americans working in part or in whole for the energy efficiency, solar, and wind sectors. That’s 14 times the current employment in the fossil fuel electric industry.

U.S. Clean Energy Jobs Surpass Fossil Fuel Employment

Jobs!

 

[Old Rocks]

Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise

Ooo! Ooo! I got it!!! The ocean sea level is just rising around the Chesapeake Bay where all of the climate-whore fear-mongers live! As the condition develops, this imbalance in the weight of the ocean will cause the Earth to go egg-shaped, and the wobble will throw us out of orbit eventually careening us into the planet Neptune in the year 2063!

Now, now, seriously, I got this directly from Al Gore on good authority directly from my tinfoil skull cap!

You are supposed to be a reasonably well educated person, and all you can post to backup your bullshit positions is nonsense like that? Every hear of Google Scholar? Peer reviewed articles? Come on, back up your positions articles from real scientists, not just brain dead flap yap.

 

[toobfreak]

You remain a stupid illiterate ass. The cost of renewable energy is now lower, in many cases, much lower, than even dirty coal. And the new grid scale batteries will soon make both 24/7. Both solar and wind already employ far more people than does coal.

As for rejecting technology, you are the one doing that. We are on the verge of manufacturing batteries that are have three to four times the storage capacity of the present best lithium ion batteries. And they will be built out of much cheaper materials. Then we will see EV's replacing the present ICE's.

As for me moving out of the nation, no way. You are the one unhappy with the way things are developing and wanting to go back to the 1800's.

Watch it, Rockhead, you may have big rocks for brains but I have a degree in electrical engineering so don't try to blow any of that bullshit up my ass about jobs, renewable energy or batteries 10X as good made out of banana peels! Save that for all your buddies on your favorite brain-dead liberal believe-anything website.

The Beguiling Promise Of John Goodenough's New Battery Technology

Electricity is the most efficient transportation fuel – 10 kWhs is equivalent to about 40 miles per gallon, yet costs about a buck. Electricity is also the cleanest transportation fuel as long as it is generated from a non-fossil fuel source. But we still have to charge them too often to be convenient for travel over long distances.


Thus, Goodenough’s new solid-state battery cells are ideal for this use. Tripling an electric vehicle’s range from what it is now would put it in the realm of gasoline-powered cars, just what is necessary for the market in these vehicles to really take off.

Additionally, these solid-glass electrolytes can operate at -20°C (-4°F), so this type of battery allows a car to work in subzero degree weather. In fact, this design is the first all-solid-state battery that can operate in cold weather at all

The Beguiling Promise Of John Goodenough's New Battery Technology

Well fellow, when your achievements and reputation matches that of Goodenough's, get back with me.

Sorry, Rocks, but batteries are still batteries with inherent liabilities, no less electrolytic technology being the worst of all only used for its high capacity/size ratio until they self-destruct. All this "green energy" technology will remain expensive and impractical and often dangerous until the hydrogen fuel cell is developed that can be made and sold affordably. BTW, do you know that one of the agents used to made lithium ion batteries is also an ingredient in making NERVE GAS? Hmmmm.

 

[toobfreak]

Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise

Ooo! Ooo! I got it!!! The ocean sea level is just rising around the Chesapeake Bay where all of the climate-whore fear-mongers live! As the condition develops, this imbalance in the weight of the ocean will cause the Earth to go egg-shaped, and the wobble will throw us out of orbit eventually careening us into the planet Neptune in the year 2063!

Now, now, seriously, I got this directly from Al Gore on good authority directly from my tinfoil skull cap!

You are supposed to be a reasonably well educated person, and all you can post to backup your bullshit positions is nonsense like that? Every hear of Google Scholar? Peer reviewed articles? Come on, back up your positions articles from real scientists, not just brain dead flap yap.

Sorry. Sometimes juvenile sarcasm is just more fun and often a better fit with the vast majority of some posters here! Have to fight fire with fire.

BTW, far too much credence is given to web-based information. Much of your best information isn't on any (at least public) website! And all of the climate scientists caught years back in the email scandal all conspiring to build up false climate data to support their positions plus Barack Obama getting a Nobel for doing absolutely NOTHING AT ALL has pretty much killed the credibility of just being a "scientist."

 

[Old Rocks]

A lot of words, yet you said nothing. Do I know that dangerous materials are used in industrial processes? After 50 years of working as a millwright in various industries, yes, I do know that. And what difference does it make? The paper you use every day has several very toxic gases involved in the process.

I have seen the battery technology make huge progress in the last 20 years, and now we have EV's establishing records on some of the most difficult tracks in the world. And the fuel cells have essentially gone nowhere in that period.

 

[Old Rocks]

Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise

Ooo! Ooo! I got it!!! The ocean sea level is just rising around the Chesapeake Bay where all of the climate-whore fear-mongers live! As the condition develops, this imbalance in the weight of the ocean will cause the Earth to go egg-shaped, and the wobble will throw us out of orbit eventually careening us into the planet Neptune in the year 2063!

Now, now, seriously, I got this directly from Al Gore on good authority directly from my tinfoil skull cap!

You are supposed to be a reasonably well educated person, and all you can post to backup your bullshit positions is nonsense like that? Every hear of Google Scholar? Peer reviewed articles? Come on, back up your positions articles from real scientists, not just brain dead flap yap.

Sorry. Sometimes juvenile sarcasm is just more fun and often a better fit with the vast majority of some posters here! Have to fight fire with fire.

BTW, far too much credence is given to web-based information. Much of your best information isn't on any (at least public) website! And all of the climate scientists caught years back in the email scandal all conspiring to build up false climate data to support their positions plus Barack Obama getting a Nobel for doing absolutely NOTHING AT ALL has pretty much killed the credibility of just being a "scientist."

My favorite discipline is geology. Highest class I have taken in that discipline is Eng Geo 470/570. And I have traveled in the Cascades, Blues, Sierra Nevada, Rockies, north and south, and been as far north as Yellowknife. In the North Cascades I have seen the recession of the glaciers and the melting of snowfields that used to last the summer. You can see Mt Hood from Portland, and observe the recession of the glaciers on that mountain decade by decade. The world is warming, I can see that from personal observation.

In the Blues, where my great-grandfather and his brother established ranches in the 1870's, the snow's come much later and melt much sooner than they did in the 1800's. In my own lifetime, I remember the weather there from about 1948 on, the weather has significantly warmed. There used to be a few days in the East end of the valley every winter that was as cold as -40. Today, it is rare for the temperature there to get as low as -20 even once during the winter.

Looking at what the scientists are mapping in the rest of the world we see the same pattern.

Fires and floods: North Cascades federal lands prepare for climate change | UW Today

Since this report, we have had several catastrophic fires, one town gone, several saved by dropping retardant in town. In the Blues, several fires in the hundred to two hundred square mile range. Including one that burned two thirds of the Strawberry Wilderness Area. And almost burned the three largest towns in Grant County.

 

[Wyatt earp]

A lot of words, yet you said nothing. Do I know that dangerous materials are used in industrial processes? After 50 years of working as a millwright in various industries, yes, I do know that. And what difference does it make? The paper you use every day has several very toxic gases involved in the process.

I have seen the battery technology make huge progress in the last 20 years, and now we have EV's establishing records on some of the most difficult tracks in the world. And the fuel cells have essentially gone nowhere in that period.

Why the fuck you lie so much? Fuel cells changed dramatically in the past 20 years....

Automakers aren’t thinking creatively enough about hydrogen fuel cells
Is the most abundant element in the universe being used to its full potential?

• By Andrew J. Hawkins
• on April 13, 2017

This week, Honda introduced two new versions of the Clarity: a plug-in hybrid version with an all-electric range of 40 miles, and a battery-powered version, the range of which is undisclosed. Honda says it has close to 100 hydrogen-powered vehicles on the road in California today — the only state in the US with anything approaching a hydrogen fueling infrastructure. The automaker hopes to eventually sell “thousands” of fuel cell vehicles over the next four years.

And Honda isn’t alone. Hyundai and its sister company Kia both have to plans to introduce fuel cell vehicles in the next three years. Toyota has its Mirai class of fuel cell cars on sale today. GM and Honda recently announced a joint venture where the two automakers hope to produce a next-generation fuel cell system by 2020, while BMW is engaged in a hydrogen R&D partnership with Toyota.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise

Ooo! Ooo! I got it!!! The ocean sea level is just rising around the Chesapeake Bay where all of the climate-whore fear-mongers live! As the condition develops, this imbalance in the weight of the ocean will cause the Earth to go egg-shaped, and the wobble will throw us out of orbit eventually careening us into the planet Neptune in the year 2063!

Now, now, seriously, I got this directly from Al Gore on good authority directly from my tinfoil skull cap!

You are supposed to be a reasonably well educated person, and all you can post to backup your bullshit positions is nonsense like that? Every hear of Google Scholar? Peer reviewed articles? Come on, back up your positions articles from real scientists, not just brain dead flap yap.

Sorry. Sometimes juvenile sarcasm is just more fun and often a better fit with the vast majority of some posters here! Have to fight fire with fire.

BTW, far too much credence is given to web-based information. Much of your best information isn't on any (at least public) website! And all of the climate scientists caught years back in the email scandal all conspiring to build up false climate data to support their positions plus Barack Obama getting a Nobel for doing absolutely NOTHING AT ALL has pretty much killed the credibility of just being a "scientist."

My favorite discipline is geology. Highest class I have taken in that discipline is Eng Geo 470/570. And I have traveled in the Cascades, Blues, Sierra Nevada, Rockies, north and south, and been as far north as Yellowknife. In the North Cascades I have seen the recession of the glaciers and the melting of snowfields that used to last the summer. You can see Mt Hood from Portland, and observe the recession of the glaciers on that mountain decade by decade. The world is warming, I can see that from personal observation.

In the Blues, where my great-grandfather and his brother established ranches in the 1870's, the snow's come much later and melt much sooner than they did in the 1800's. In my own lifetime, I remember the weather there from about 1948 on, the weather has significantly warmed. There used to be a few days in the East end of the valley every winter that was as cold as -40. Today, it is rare for the temperature there to get as low as -20 even once during the winter.

Looking at what the scientists are mapping in the rest of the world we see the same pattern.

Fires and floods: North Cascades federal lands prepare for climate change | UW Today

Since this report, we have had several catastrophic fires, one town gone, several saved by dropping retardant in town. In the Blues, several fires in the hundred to two hundred square mile range. Including one that burned two thirds of the Strawberry Wilderness Area. And almost burned the three largest towns in Grant County.

Once again glaciers have been melting for 1000s of years


.

 

[westwall]

Trump Tells Island Disappearing Into The Sea Not To Worry

Trumps idiocy has reached a higher level.

That's because he is correct. The problem is called "COASTAL URBANIZATION" and we have known about the problem for decades. What happens is people populate an island and then they pump the groundwater for drinking use and that lowers the island due to subsidence. No global warming horse poo, just simple physics.

But, lazy scientists, and greedy politicians and bureaucrats can't make money off of reality.

 

[toobfreak]

["Old Rocks, post: 17548149, member: 13758"]A lot of words, yet you said nothing."

SURE I DID, YOU JUST MISSED IT.

Do I know that dangerous materials are used in industrial processes?

Non sequitur. But, yes, I know all about industry, have worked in heavy industry.

After 50 years of working as a millwright in various industries, yes, I do know that. And what difference does it make? The paper you use every day has several very toxic gases involved in the process.

EVER WORK WITH HYDROFLUORIC ACID? I have. Look it up. One drop on the skin will kill you. Not telling me anything I don't know. I've worked with a lot of millwrights, I've worked in specialty steel mills where people die, don't equate battery technology with paper. Big difference.

I have seen the battery technology make huge progress in the last 20 years, and now we have EV's establishing records on some of the most difficult tracks in the world. And the fuel cells have essentially gone nowhere in that period.

Yep. Batteries have grown by leaps and bounds. No doubt about it. But they are a stopgap solution to better things. I know, I've developed technologies of my own, some of them sitting here for myself, some in global telecommunications. Obviously EV cars have an advantage! The electric motor is vastly more efficient (lower losses) than a combustion engine. Higher torque. Smoother application of power. Quieter. They are the future, but storage batteries are not the best way to power them. The fuel cell is, once it can be made cheap enough. ITMT, if you can afford to drive an all-electric car, they are very much fun and very exciting. But as someone who used to build street legal race engines, I am not about to give up on gasoline yet. Gasoline will be around yet for a very long time.

Now time for a smoke & a drink and beddy-by time! G,night!

 

[Old Rocks]

A lot of words, yet you said nothing. Do I know that dangerous materials are used in industrial processes? After 50 years of working as a millwright in various industries, yes, I do know that. And what difference does it make? The paper you use every day has several very toxic gases involved in the process.

I have seen the battery technology make huge progress in the last 20 years, and now we have EV's establishing records on some of the most difficult tracks in the world. And the fuel cells have essentially gone nowhere in that period.

Why the fuck you lie so much? Fuel cells changed dramatically in the past 20 years....

Automakers aren’t thinking creatively enough about hydrogen fuel cells
Is the most abundant element in the universe being used to its full potential?

• By Andrew J. Hawkins
• on April 13, 2017

This week, Honda introduced two new versions of the Clarity: a plug-in hybrid version with an all-electric range of 40 miles, and a battery-powered version, the range of which is undisclosed. Honda says it has close to 100 hydrogen-powered vehicles on the road in California today — the only state in the US with anything approaching a hydrogen fueling infrastructure. The automaker hopes to eventually sell “thousands” of fuel cell vehicles over the next four years.

And Honda isn’t alone. Hyundai and its sister company Kia both have to plans to introduce fuel cell vehicles in the next three years. Toyota has its Mirai class of fuel cell cars on sale today. GM and Honda recently announced a joint venture where the two automakers hope to produce a next-generation fuel cell system by 2020, while BMW is engaged in a hydrogen R&D partnership with Toyota.


.

Really? And how many cars did Tesla sell last year? And how many will be sold this year? Any fuel cell motorcycles winning the Pikes Peak hill climb? Any establishing records at Nuburgring? Hydrogen fuel cells have a future, but so far, I see nothing to indicate that there future in vehicles will be anything but a minor footnote.

 

[Old Rocks]

Trump Tells Island Disappearing Into The Sea Not To Worry

Trumps idiocy has reached a higher level.

That's because he is correct. The problem is called "COASTAL URBANIZATION" and we have known about the problem for decades. What happens is people populate an island and then they pump the groundwater for drinking use and that lowers the island due to subsidence. No global warming horse poo, just simple physics.

But, lazy scientists, and greedy politicians and bureaucrats can't make money off of reality.

And you remain a liar. All up and down the East Coast, there are evidences of rising waters from Global Warming.

2.5 Million Miamians Could Become Refugees Due to Sea-Level Rise, Study Says

But as long as those same GOP legislators continue to deny that climate change is real, they're all but guaranteeing that the U.S. locks itself into a refugee crisis of its own. According to a study released this month in the peer-reviewed journal Nature, more than 2.5 million Miamians may someday be forced to flee the city thanks to rising seas — the most of any city in America.

Likewise, Florida stands to lose 2.5 million residents entirely by 2100, if seas rise by 1.8 meters. (Miami could "lose" 2.5 million residents to other cities in Florida, while Florida would lose that 2.5 million to other states.)

"I find that unmitigated SLR [sea-level rise] is expected to reshape the U.S. population distribution, potentially stressing landlocked areas unprepared to accommodate this wave of coastal migrants—even after accounting for potential adaptation," the study's author, University of Georgia population analyst Matthew E. Hauer wrote in the study. "These results provide the first glimpse of how climate change will reshape future population distributions and establish a new foundation for modeling potential migration destinations from climate stressors in an era of global environmental change."

2.5 Million Miamians Could Become Refugees Due to Sea-Level Rise, Study Says