Disabled person in real need

[Ernie S.]

That's very nice and commendable.

But...as of August this year, 8.7 million disabled workers are drawing SS disability. You may question if that many cases are valid if you like, but the premise of this thread is that no government help is really needed as charity will take care of them.

Ok...please explain to me which charities are going to take care of the every day needs of 8.7 million people. That includes rent, food, transportation, health care. Everything. How much money would it take to support them either until they recover enough to go back to work or for the rest of their lives if they are permanently disabled? Where will that money come from? Who will give it? How? Under what circumstances?

In 2010, the total amount given to charity in the United States was $290.89 billion. That's from all sources.

Political Calculations: Charity in America: The Donors

If every, single, solitary dollar of that charitable giving was redirected to just those 8.7 million disabled workers, it would amount to roughly $33,000 each. That should be enough, but it would require no giving to anything else, by anybody. That includes cancer research, churches (yes, apparently including tithes), little league, college funds...whatever.

Now...tell me again how they'll get by just fine with no government involvement?

The services needed by those in need are better delivered locally. It's not the remit of the federal government, nor are is the federal government competent to deliver cost effective, targeted, services. Put the issue on the shoulders of the states, not the idiots in DC.

The only difference is that you'd shift the burden to state government, instead of the federal government. It's still "government assistance," you know. I guess it's not a case of government having no role to play...it's just WHICH government, right?

And, a lot of the states are strapped for cash. Where's the money going to come from?

From reducing federal taxes, relieving one layer of bureaucracy.

 

[P@triot]

First of all, where the fuck are the family and friends of those 8.7 million people?

I don't know. You tell me.

In most cases, they are right there taking care of the "disabled". But it would be too inconvenient for the left to acknowledge that reality.

Second, we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. We have income tax, property tax, sales tax, capital gains tax, and a LOT more. Despite that, we lead the world in charity. Just imagine what we could do if we weren't be taxed to death by communist liberals?

I don't know. Why don't you explain to me just how charity would be able to take care of all those millions if we reduced the tax rate?

Because when people have MORE money, they are MORE generous.

Third, it is NOT the responsibility of government to care for anyone, regardless of your tear-dropping stories.

Really? Does that include disabled Veteran's? Does that include retiree's from the federal work force? Does that include current employees? You're spitting nonsense now...as usual.

You're so desperate, you're making nonsensical arguments. A disabled verteran EARNED care from the government by SERVING our nation and providing our freedoms. That is nothing like the parasite crack addict in the hood bilking the US tax payer for all they are worth, or the ghetto mama who has 8 children because it means more money from the government, which is a better option in their mind than actually having to get a job.

Tell me...if the federal government doesn't have any responsibility to help care for the disabled, who does? What happens to those people if they don't or can't?

Nobody has that "responsibility". Nobody. That's what FREEDOM is about. Making it or not making it on your own. If you want "we are all in this together", there are plenty of Communist countries out there just waiting for you to move there.

Your nice little story about somebody buying somebody a van doesn't solve the problem, does it?

As a matter of fact, it DOES solve the problem. It's glaring evidence that the wealthy take care of people in need without any interference from government. In fact, there is nearly $1 trillion in waste every year by the federal government. $1 trillion per year would feed, house, and provide healthcare for every single person in America that needs it. If you truly gave the slightest damn about those in need, you'd be advocating for government to get the fuck out of the way so that the American people can help the needy. The fact that you keep advocating for government to do it with $1 trillion in waste per year just shows this is not about helping anyone for you - it's about your foolish belief in communism.

 

[JoeB131]

They don't want single payer, moonbats like Obama and you do.....

Except Obama never proposed Single Payer. (Which would actually solve a lot of the problem.)

Still hiding behind that argument? ......

You mean the argument that every other country that has single payer spends less, their people live longer, and less of their babies die in infancy.

You know, THAT argument. The one based on things called facts.

 

[Oldguy]

How much taxes were collected to pay for social "entitlements"? put those dollars back in the economy and charitable contributions will skyrocket. The money will also be more effective once several layers of bureaucracy are eliminated.

What do you think those who get a disability or Social Security check do with the money? Sit on it?

No..they spend it, which is....get ready for it....putting those dollars "back in the economy."

 

[Oldguy]

As a matter of fact, it DOES solve the problem. It's glaring evidence that the wealthy take care of people in need without any interference from government. In fact, there is nearly $1 trillion in waste every year by the federal government. $1 trillion per year would feed, house, and provide healthcare for every single person in America that needs it. If you truly gave the slightest damn about those in need, you'd be advocating for government to get the fuck out of the way so that the American people can help the needy. The fact that you keep advocating for government to do it with $1 trillion in waste per year just shows this is not about helping anyone for you - it's about your foolish belief in communism.

You're either delusional or living somewhere other than here. I don't recall EVER getting some money from a local millionaire when I was down on my luck.

Did you? Did ANYBODY?

 

[JoeB131]

I'm pretty sure you've been shown the math that proves even if you confiscate ALL the wealth from the 1%, not just their income, it won't fund your bloated government very long at all.

Yeah, I heard that bullshit.

I even used to believe it.

Now I Know better.



The Bottom 80% controls 11% of the wealth.

The next 10% controls 12% of the wealth.

So 90% of the population controls only 23% of the wealth.

10% of the population controls 77% of the wealth. The top 1% controls 35% of the wealth in this country.

Now here's the gag. If the wealth were properly distributed, closer to where the wealth was in the 1950's, let's say. You probably wouldn't need as much government.

This is the trap you guys never get your minds around. When you get rid of the good paying union jobs and replace them with McJobs, people don't happily starve to death.

They might have less kids, but they go to government for help for the ones they've got.

You clowns are doing this to yourselves. You keep turning the screws on the 90% and then wonder why more of them vote for more government every year.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Please explain to me why those 8.7 million people won't take care of themselves? The number of truly disabled people is minuscule. But because government has an extremely liberal definition of disability, there boatloads of people who can take care of themselves but who choose not to because they can poke their dickskinners out and have them filled with government bucks.

Really? What IS the government (i.e. Social Security) definition of disability?

"The ADA's definition Of an "impairment" includes any condition that has a psychological, physiological, or mental basis..."

What Is Considered a Disability Under the ADA? | eHow.com

Basically, anything you can persuade some doc to cop to. It is not unusual for a determined 'victim' to doctor shop until they find one willing to declare them 'disabled'.

ADA Home Page - ada.gov - Information and Technical Assistance on the Americans with Disabilities Act

 

[GoneBezerk]

A lot of people that are now on disability are full of shit, like you.

They have "stress," carpal tunnel syndrome, etc....lame ass excuses to sit at home and not work for a living.

When there are people in wheelchairs, that are deaf or blind going to work....I don't give a shit about some asshole sitting at home over "stress."

Well I'll be DAMNED! Very real, very serious problems for those in need CAN be solved without any intervention by government whatsoever. Who knew?!?!

It's astounding how quickly every talking point and ideological belief by the left is just completely crumbling beneath them...

Actor Tyler Perry Donates Van to Woman With Cerebral Palsy Alicia Day After Hearing Hers Was Stolen | TheBlaze.com

That's very nice and commendable.

But...as of August this year, 8.7 million disabled workers are drawing SS disability. You may question if that many cases are valid if you like, but the premise of this thread is that no government help is really needed as charity will take care of them.

Ok...please explain to me which charities are going to take care of the every day needs of 8.7 million people. That includes rent, food, transportation, health care. Everything. How much money would it take to support them either until they recover enough to go back to work or for the rest of their lives if they are permanently disabled? Where will that money come from? Who will give it? How? Under what circumstances?

In 2010, the total amount given to charity in the United States was $290.89 billion. That's from all sources.

Political Calculations: Charity in America: The Donors

If every, single, solitary dollar of that charitable giving was redirected to just those 8.7 million disabled workers, it would amount to roughly $33,000 each. That should be enough, but it would require no giving to anything else, by anybody. That includes cancer research, churches (yes, apparently including tithes), little league, college funds...whatever.

Now...tell me again how they'll get by just fine with no government involvement?

 

[P@triot]

The only difference is that you'd shift the burden to state government, instead of the federal government. It's still "government assistance," you know. I guess it's not a case of government having no role to play...it's just WHICH government, right?

And, a lot of the states are strapped for cash. Where's the money going to come from?

Are you a fucking idiot?!? Nobody is more "strapped for cash" than our federal government which is $16 trillion in debt!!! So answer your own question: Where's the money going to come from?

Taxing the 1% that has more wealth than the bottom 90%, to start with.

Considering that TAX & SPEND liberal policy created the $16 trillion debt, there is no question your proposal would just push us over the fiscal cliff.

You can't punish hard workers and reward crack addicts

 

[JoeB131]

Considering that TAX & SPEND liberal policy created the $16 trillion debt, there is no question your proposal would just push us over the fiscal cliff.

You can't punish hard workers and reward crack addicts

We didn't "Tax and Spend"

We borrowed and spent. That was the problem. If we actually had a balanced budget amendment and paid taxes for everything- including wars- we'd have done it all a lot more efficiently.

If anything, what we did was take the money that should have been set aside for retirees and used it to give tax breaks to billionaires, and that's why we are hurting right now.

 

[auditor0007]

Well I'll be DAMNED! Very real, very serious problems for those in need CAN be solved without any intervention by government whatsoever. Who knew?!?!

It's astounding how quickly every talking point and ideological belief by the left is just completely crumbling beneath them...

Actor Tyler Perry Donates Van to Woman With Cerebral Palsy Alicia Day After Hearing Hers Was Stolen | TheBlaze.com

You are nominated for noob of the day. Any idea how many disabled people there are in the US? Do you think one act of kindness will help them all? Do you think that this disabled girl is now set for life and won't need anymore help? You're a dupe.

 

[JoeB131]

Well I'll be DAMNED! Very real, very serious problems for those in need CAN be solved without any intervention by government whatsoever. Who knew?!?!

It's astounding how quickly every talking point and ideological belief by the left is just completely crumbling beneath them...

Actor Tyler Perry Donates Van to Woman With Cerebral Palsy Alicia Day After Hearing Hers Was Stolen | TheBlaze.com

You are nominated for noob of the day. Any idea how many disabled people there are in the US? Do you think one act of kindness will help them all? Do you think that this disabled girl is now set for life and won't need anymore help? You're a dupe.

Exactly.

The main reason America charities are overtaxed is because unlike other civilized countries, we spend so little on this sort of thing.

 

[Oldguy]

A lot of people that are now on disability are full of shit, like you.

They have "stress," carpal tunnel syndrome, etc....lame ass excuses to sit at home and not work for a living.

Prove it. I don't think you can.

 

[uscitizen]

Well I'll be DAMNED! Very real, very serious problems for those in need CAN be solved without any intervention by government whatsoever. Who knew?!?!

It's astounding how quickly every talking point and ideological belief by the left is just completely crumbling beneath them...

Actor Tyler Perry Donates Van to Woman With Cerebral Palsy Alicia Day After Hearing Hers Was Stolen | TheBlaze.com

You are nominated for noob of the day. Any idea how many disabled people there are in the US? Do you think one act of kindness will help them all? Do you think that this disabled girl is now set for life and won't need anymore help? You're a dupe.

Ahh such is the way of absolutist thinkers.

 

[uscitizen]

Are you a fucking idiot?!? Nobody is more "strapped for cash" than our federal government which is $16 trillion in debt!!! So answer your own question: Where's the money going to come from?

Taxing the 1% that has more wealth than the bottom 90%, to start with.

Considering that TAX & SPEND liberal policy created the $16 trillion debt, there is no question your proposal would just push us over the fiscal cliff.

You can't punish hard workers and reward crack addicts

But you just throw hard workers out with the trash when they become unable to work?

I worked hard all my life no govt bennies at all and just for about the past 5 years I have been unable to work...
Those like me are much of what built this country you are enjoying the relatively easy life in.

 

[Politico]

One van. Yeah that solves things.

 

[daveman]

I've never understood why it's "greed" to want to keep money you've earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.

-- Thomas Sowell

The modern liberal is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for covetousness.

-- daveman

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

-- C. S. Lewis

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. ---Franklin D. Roosevelt

So, you have no rational answer for the Sowell quote, huh?

 

[JoeB131]

I've never understood why it's "greed" to want to keep money you've earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.

-- Thomas Sowell

The modern liberal is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for covetousness.

-- daveman

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

-- C. S. Lewis

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. ---Franklin D. Roosevelt

So, you have no rational answer for the Sowell quote, huh?

I thought he slammed dunked it....

Why is it good that a dressage horse is living better than most Americans?

 

[daveman]

Except Obama never proposed Single Payer. (Which would actually solve a lot of the problem.)

Still hiding behind that argument? ......

You mean the argument that every other country that has single payer spends less, their people live longer, and less of their babies die in infancy.

You know, THAT argument. The one based on things called facts.

Elderly patients dying of thirst: Doctors forced to prescribe drinking water to keep the old alive, reveals devastating report on hospital care | Mail Online

Doctors are prescribing drinking water for neglected elderly patients to stop them dying of thirst in hospital.
The measure – to remind nurses of the most basic necessity – is revealed in a damning report on pensioner care in NHS wards.
Some trusts are neglecting the elderly on such a fundamental level their wards could face closure orders.

The snapshot study, triggered by a Mail campaign, found staff routinely ignored patients’ calls for help and forgot to check that they had had enough to eat and drink.
Dehydration contributes to the death of more than 800 hospital patients every year.

Another 300 die malnourished. The latest report – by the Care Quality Commission – found patients frequently complained they were spoken to in a ‘condescending and dismissive’ manner.

The watchdog said three of 12 NHS trusts visited in the past three months were failing to meet the most basic standards required by law.​

Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year | Mail Online

NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday.

Professor Patrick Pullicino said doctors had turned the use of a controversial ‘death pathway’ into the equivalent of euthanasia of the elderly.

He claimed there was often a lack of clear evidence for initiating the Liverpool Care Pathway, a method of looking after terminally ill patients that is used in hospitals across the country.

--

In the example he revealed a 71-year-old who was admitted to hospital suffering from pneumonia and epilepsy was put on the LCP by a covering doctor on a weekend shift.

Professor Pullicino said he had returned to work after a weekend to find the patient unresponsive and his family upset because they had not agreed to place him on the LCP.

‘I removed the patient from the LCP despite significant resistance,’ he said.

‘His seizures came under control and four weeks later he was discharged home to his family,’ he said.​

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...-NHS-hospital-wards-on-brink-of-collapse.html

Patients’ lives are at risk in NHS hospital wards that are “on the brink of collapse” due to a critical shortage of out-of-hours doctors and growing numbers of the elderly.

Some hospitals narrowly avoid “catastrophe” every weekend, research by the Royal College of Physicians has found, because doctors’ shifts are limited by the European Working Time Directive and they do not want to work anti-social hours.

Some are “struggling to cope” with the volume of older patients. Many are discharged in the middle of the night or shunted around “like parcels” to free beds for new arrivals.

If the problem is not tackled there will be more tragedies like the Mid Staffs scandal, in which up to 1,200 mainly elderly patients died from substandard care. A radical reorganisation of the NHS is needed, according to the college. It may include shutting the worst-performing hospitals to expand care at better ones, with more staff coverage at nights and weekends.​

Socialized medicine is a failure. Is this what you want for America?

 

[daveman]

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. ---Franklin D. Roosevelt

So, you have no rational answer for the Sowell quote, huh?

I thought he slammed dunked it....

You don't think at all.

Why is it good that a dressage horse is living better than most Americans?

You can live in a barn and shit in a field if you want. Nothing's stopping you.