Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by John Baron, Aug 27, 2017.
I know, the cops around here just do as they please...
It has always been conservatives who have held countries back. At one time in the US, that was the Dems but its not now.
Same with the Revolution. It was conservatives who spied for King George and the progressives who wanted to build a new country.
It has never been a question of Republicans and Democrats but rather of progressive and regressive.
I am not herr to argue if welfare works or not, that is another topic.
Do you think the pro welfare folks are trying to enslave the poor? Or they do it unintentionally?
Most states had laws similar, including most northern states. The Midwest had the most draconian 'Black Codes', and they made those even tougher in the 1850's. It was impossible for a black person to buy land in Illinois, or even make a living legally, and of course they had slavery as well, they just invented a new way to practice it, via debt slavery and selling convict labor to private businesses. Lincoln was a leader in strengthening the 'Black Codes' in Illinois in 1857. The state laws weren't called 'Jim Crow' everywhere, but they were the same as them, some were worse. Many of our gun control laws have racist roots, going back to colonial times.
As for welfare, there is a lot of evidence for it being the black middle class using poor blacks as essentially hostages to use as weapons to extort bennies for themselves from local, state, and Federal govts. See Hugh Davis Graham's The Civil Rights Era for details on how that was enabled, and Patrick Moynihan's warnings on how that was going to turn out that proved to be spot on the money.
A bit -off-topic, but provides a little context of conditions in the U.S. at the time:
The flood of cheap desperate immigrant labor into the northern states and Midwest that began in 1820, and reached massive proportions after 1845, of course made being 'free white labor' a worse condition than being a slave, the latter being a 'capital investment' and expensive rated being taken care of a much better existence than being disposable white casual labor in the north or the south, in any case; the levees that line the Mississippi has thousands of skeletons of German and Irish laborers that weren't considered worth the bother of even removing them from the work sites and they just left them to be buried in the levees. Fredrick Law Omstead on his tour of the South to Texas and back made a note of this in his book about his trip, and also that on the cotton boats and docks the Irish got the most dangerous, crippling work for the same reasons. Some economists have even documented the dire effects of mass immigration on both natives and immigrants in those years. I posted a couple of links in a thread in the History Forum on that some time back, but it drew crickets.
In the South, post-Civil War, yes they did. And any Democrat politician who voted for those Jim Crow laws needs to be voted out of office, ASAP!
I would also like to hear the answer to that so I can condemn those laws and those politicians.
Dixiecrats which are now our freedom caucus members are the ones that started jim crow!
Setting the Record Straight on Jim Crow
Jim Crow began with the end of Reconstruction's military occupation of Dixie in1870. Until the advent of TV, national parties were coalitions of state parties. The Democratic Party coalition put together by FDR to operate his New Deal, included the semi-independent Solid South -- the white vote still angry over the Civil War. The black vote (such as it was in the South and in the North) had voted for the "party of Lincoln" i.e. the GOP as a solid bloc since the passage of the XV Amendment in 1869. The black vote switched over to the Democratic Party in response to the New Deal. This uneasy combination of bedfellows was contained in a single national party largely by giving Southern Democrats free rein locally in return for their obedience to national party policies.
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