Did Obama Save GM?

[Procrustes Stretched]

When will GM pay all the bondholders who were forced to accept worthless GM stock?

For someone who thinks Wallstreet needs to be regulated, Obama breaks Corporate Finance Regulations when it is convenient.

the sky is falling. get indoors and stay there.

 

[eagleseven]

When will GM pay all the bondholders who were forced to accept worthless GM stock?

For someone who thinks Wallstreet needs to be regulated, Obama breaks Corporate Finance Regulations when it is convenient.

the sky is falling. get indoors and stay there.

I know I've made my point when all you can do is post lame attacks.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

When will GM pay all the bondholders who were forced to accept worthless GM stock?

For someone who thinks Wallstreet needs to be regulated, Obama breaks Corporate Finance Regulations when it is convenient.

the sky is falling. get indoors and stay there.

I know I've made my point when all you can do is post lame attacks.

nope. try using reasonable and rational argument and you get a civil response from me most every time.

I suffer fools not

 

[eagleseven]

the sky is falling. get indoors and stay there.

I know I've made my point when all you can do is post lame attacks.

nope. try using reasonable and rational argument and you get a civil response from me most every time.

I suffer fools not

*cries*

You're calling me irrational?

 

[GWV5903]

Why do all these new assholes have such font complexes????

Just like your messiah, pointing fingers in the wrong direction when you have nothing of substance to debate....

What is your fixation with assholes? Do you have a hard time getting pussy?!?!?!?!

my problem is too much pussy

the pussies usually follow me around the boards

Denial, your only option......

 

[daveman]

I know I've made my point when all you can do is post lame attacks.

nope. try using reasonable and rational argument and you get a civil response from me most every time.

I suffer fools not

*cries*

You're calling me irrational?

Note: Dante's definition of "rational" is "agreeing with me instantly and unquestioningly".

If you disagree with him, you're irrational, racist, and brain-damaged.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

daveman discussing Dante instead of the topic again?


*blush*

 

[daveman]

daveman discussing Dante instead of the topic again?


*blush*

An attention whore, bitching about getting attention?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

No, it was a way the unions and their supporters were afraid of, which is why an idiot in power stepped in and ignored the law.

another weird post about imaginary law breaking?

*sigh*

Tsk

Where did I say anything about breaking the law? I claimed that he ignored the law, which he did. Bankruptcy law clearly gives precedence to creditors who hold liens on material assets over those who simply are owed money. The theory behind this is pretty simple, it encourages investors who are willing to invest physical assets and take real risks in companies over those who survive on hope and a prayer. Are you going to try and claim that Obama did not ignore these laws and force me to prove you a liar by citing everyone who agrees that he did this?

Chrysler and the Rule of Law - WSJ.com

That is only the first of many examples I can give.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I know I've made my point when all you can do is post lame attacks.

nope. try using reasonable and rational argument and you get a civil response from me most every time.

I suffer fools not

*cries*

You're calling me irrational?

As far as I can tell Dante has never responded to any rational argument. his claim that you are irrational should serve as a good laugh for you. just like it does for me.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

quantum, it is difficult for most sane people respond to you in what you think is a rational argument, because you are yourself surrounded by irrationality

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Is that your way of saying you are wrong without saying it?

 

[FledgeEcon]

He may have saved GM but in doing so he's created a moral hazard where executives now feel they can getaway with bad business principals with a government bailout as a safety net.
No Bueno!

Fledglingeconomist.com

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

He may have saved GM but in doing so he's created a moral hazard where executives now feel they can getaway with bad business principals with a government bailout as a safety net.
No Bueno!

Fledglingeconomist.com

really? that may have been the immediate unintended consequence, but even with the GOP fighting reform, Obama is trying to rectify those consequences in the future.


so you're living in the past.

good luck with that

 

[Yurt]

nope. try using reasonable and rational argument and you get a civil response from me most every time.

I suffer fools not

*cries*

You're calling me irrational?

Note: Dante's definition of "rational" is "agreeing with me instantly and unquestioningly".

If you disagree with him, you're irrational, racist, and brain-damaged.

qft

 

[Yurt]

Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause...sort of like BP getting credit for cleaning up the oil spill.

?

how did bush cause gm and chrysler's problems?

you won't be able to answer this and will run away

Bush's economic policies like any other President's economic policies affect markets.

please read with caution: "Bush gets some credit for helping..."

you failed to actually answer the question...how did these "policies" you speak of cause gm and chrysler's problems? answer with specifics dante. what specific bush policy(s) caused their collapse?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

?

how did bush cause gm and chrysler's problems?

you won't be able to answer this and will run away

Bush's economic policies like any other President's economic policies affect markets.

please read with caution: "Bush gets some credit for helping..."

you failed to actually answer the question...how did these "policies" you speak of cause gm and chrysler's problems? answer with specifics dante. what specific bush policy(s) caused their collapse?

contributed to the collapse.

please don't bore me with rephrasing what I actually say.

"Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause..."

 

[boedicca]

Obama didn't save GM. He interfered in what should have been an orderly bankruptcy / reorganization process in order to bail out the UAW.

Bondholders were forced to take a fraction of what they were legally owed, with that funding being diverted to the benefit of the union.

The devil, in this case, was in the details of the bankruptcy plan that the government pushed through:

Bondholders -- investors ranging from large institutions to retirees just scraping by, who loaned GM a total of $27 billion -- received just 10 percent of the company. By contrast, the government's $50 billion gave it about 61 percent.

And the union -- in return for the $20 billion that GM owed its health trust -- got a remarkable 17.5 percent of the stock plus $2.5 billion in cash plus $6.5 billion in preferred stock carrying a dividend of about 9 percent.

In other words, the UAW got three to four times as much as the bondholders for a smaller claim on GM's assets. The union even boasted to its members in May 2009 that it had made no concessions on pay, health care or pensions in the restructuring.

In effect, the government divided up GM's creditors into favored and unfavored groups, then gave a fat stake in the reorganized business to the favored (a k a longtime Democratic Party donors). On top of that, Washington also ordered the shutdown of 1,650 GM dealers and another 1,000 Chrysler dealers as part of its takeover.

In last month's audit, TARP's inspector general criticized the Treasury Department for that very decision. Treasury didn't show why the cuts were "either necessary for the sake of the companies' economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation's economic recovery." The move "substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses." ...

Obama's GM rescue helped only his friends--Mark Modica - NYPOST.com

 

[Yurt]

Bush's economic policies like any other President's economic policies affect markets.

please read with caution: "Bush gets some credit for helping..."

you failed to actually answer the question...how did these "policies" you speak of cause gm and chrysler's problems? answer with specifics dante. what specific bush policy(s) caused their collapse?

contributed to the collapse.

please don't bore me with rephrasing what I actually say.

"Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause..."

i knew you would puss out on answering the question....you can't specifically point out how "he helped cause it"....i did not reword anything, you are just incapable of specifically pointing out how "he helped cause" their problems...

coward

 

[daveman]

Obama didn't save GM. He interfered in what should have been an orderly bankruptcy / reorganization process in order to bail out the UAW.

Bondholders were forced to take a fraction of what they were legally owed, with that funding being diverted to the benefit of the union.

The devil, in this case, was in the details of the bankruptcy plan that the government pushed through:

Bondholders -- investors ranging from large institutions to retirees just scraping by, who loaned GM a total of $27 billion -- received just 10 percent of the company. By contrast, the government's $50 billion gave it about 61 percent.

And the union -- in return for the $20 billion that GM owed its health trust -- got a remarkable 17.5 percent of the stock plus $2.5 billion in cash plus $6.5 billion in preferred stock carrying a dividend of about 9 percent.

In other words, the UAW got three to four times as much as the bondholders for a smaller claim on GM's assets. The union even boasted to its members in May 2009 that it had made no concessions on pay, health care or pensions in the restructuring.

In effect, the government divided up GM's creditors into favored and unfavored groups, then gave a fat stake in the reorganized business to the favored (a k a longtime Democratic Party donors). On top of that, Washington also ordered the shutdown of 1,650 GM dealers and another 1,000 Chrysler dealers as part of its takeover.

In last month's audit, TARP's inspector general criticized the Treasury Department for that very decision. Treasury didn't show why the cuts were "either necessary for the sake of the companies' economic survival or prudent for the sake of the nation's economic recovery." The move "substantially contributed to the accelerated shuttering of thousands of small businesses." ...

Obama's GM rescue helped only his friends--Mark Modica - NYPOST.com

EVERYTHING this Administration has done domestically has been to reward political supporters. The interests of the nation as a whole aren't considered.

It's the Chicago Way.