Did Obama Save GM?

[hjmick]

I'm not sure why you would consider me a "wingnut" for asking a question but okay...

You know, some times businesses fail. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they fail and then come back. But, in my opinion, it is not the responsibility of the government to bail them out, no matter what their size. I was opposed the auto bailouts now, I was opposed to the Chrysler bailout of 1980, and I was opposed to the Bush bank bailout.

Oh, and I don't watch Fox News, well, except for Red Eye.

Did you leave out the Airline bailout on purpose? I was against that myself but you may not have been. I agree with the rest of your statement though except I do not watch Red Eye.

Well, we were talking aboiut the auto industry, but yeah, I didn't favor the airline bailout nor did I care for Ford's bailout of NYC...

 

[hjmick]

Did GM need saving?

Ford seems to be doing just fine, even better than GM, and they didn't take a dime...

How's Chrysler doing? Didn't they take government money? Why does no one ever mention Chrysler?

truthie called you out.

Ford said that saving GM and the others helped them stay afloat. Their suppliers would have died without the business.

You call that "calling me out?" Wow, you need to raise your standards, Dante...

All Truth did was make a statement, one that seems logical to a certain degree on it's surface, but it is TM. Not only is there no link to substantiate her post, but the next time I take one of her posts at face value will be the first time.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause...sort of like BP getting credit for cleaning up the oil spill.

 

[KissMy]

Chevy Volt - Tax Credit - Phoney Baloney Accounting | NewsBusters.org

The government is offering a $7,500 tax credit to people who purchase the Chevy Volt. So that takes the $41,000 sticker price down to $33,500. But wait just a minute ..... doesn't the government own GM? Why don't they just make the sticker price $33,500? It's obvious why they are going the tax credit route.

GM gets to puff up their sales figures and bottom line whenever they sell a Volt. They will show the full $41,000 sales price on their income statement, and also book the additional $7,500 as proft, (above and beyond what they are making if they sold it at $33,500). The federal government will eat the $7,500 in the form of issuing additional debt that we and our kids will all owe. This is phoney accounting! GM and the federal government are all one entity!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

That was funny, thanks for the laugh.

The problem GM had before the bailout, the rising costs of union pensions and health care, still exist unchanged. If Obama had not "saved" GM they would have gone through a real bankruptcy proceeding, been able to divest themselves of the bloat of those contracts, would not have cheating people who invested real money in the physical assets of GM out of their money, and would be moving toward a profit that did not come from fancy bookkeeping and government subsidies.

Did Obama save GM? Only in the dreams of the liberals and unions who think that being saved means making money off of taxpayers instead of earnings.

Take a look at how a real auto company faces a major problem.

GM might have earned $1.3 billion during the April-June period, but that’s half as much as crosstown rival Ford Motor, which may have more than three times as much debt but also has a longer track record as a profitable automaker.



As GM reports continued momentum in its turnaround, it’s important to keep its mind the long, painful roads both took to improve.

Since 2005, Ford and GM closed plants, eliminated or sold brands and reduced dealerships.

While GM restructured with federal assistance, and now has the U.S. Treasury as a 61% owner, Ford took out a $23 billion loan in 2006, giving it the cash cushion necessary to be the only domestic automaker to survive 2009 without filing for bankruptcy.

Now, both are profitable again for the first time since 2007. But Ford is widely regarded as further along in its recovery.

How GM and Ford profits compare | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So if GM declared bankruptcy the auto industry would have been healthier?

 

[Avorysuds]

So if GM declared bankruptcy the auto industry would have been healthier?

Yes... In the long run.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So if GM declared bankruptcy the auto industry would have been healthier?

Yes... In the long run.

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

 

[topspin]

he raped the bondholders and the shareholders at the expense of the union workers.
If they were truely going bankrupt the union should have been abolished and they should have had the option to keep non union jobs at exponentially lower salaries.

Wonder why there is a trillion dollars in cash not being invested. Obama doesn't think, he does basically confiscate capital. Why would you take the risk.

 

[Avorysuds]

So if GM declared bankruptcy the auto industry would have been healthier?

Yes... In the long run.

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

It's not fair, nor is it right or their job to bail anyone out with tax payer money. End of story.

If Bush or Obama and the people in congress really thought "bailing" GM out was the way to go and that there would be a good return on their money, then they should have taken millions of their own money and invested it.

As I said, you more than any republican voter support the "evil corporation." All it took as a guy telling you it's imporatant that has a D next to their name.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

he raped the bondholders and the shareholders at the expense of the union workers.

If they were truely going bankrupt the union should have been abolished and they should have had the option to keep non union jobs at exponentially lower salaries.

Wonder why there is a trillion dollars in cash not being invested. Obama doesn't think, he does basically confiscate capital. Why would you take the risk.

confiscates capital?

yawn*

 

[Avorysuds]

It is a weird thing. Inflation is happening all the time now, your dollar is becoming worth less every single day. The fact that Obama has taken the stimulus and not spent around half of it is odd because literally everyday that money is worth less. And of course the inflation a trillion dollars adds to the economy makes your money worth less.

On top of it all Obama used to stimulus that he did spend to help keep costs for many things artificially high, again making your money worth less.

If things fell apart, if things were allowed to come down then people’s jobs and peoples saving would be worth much more, because they could buy more with it, or invest. For instance, if GM decided to go out of business, someone could have come up with a business plan and found investors… In the long run the new company would have had to be innovative, create a better product through quality and style to sell to the public. Instead we get a buy out and see nearly the exact same product being sold.

It’s basic logic, it’s happened millions of times throughout history… Government “helping” a company out only holds us back as a people.


The price of a hose could have gone from 600,000 to 125,000… Instead Obama and congress (even Bush yes) have tried their hardest to keep homes sales artificially high. A 600,000 % home can go for 400,000 in many areas. Sure the price coming down 200,000 is a lot but it really needed to come doe around 400,000 to be more inline with what is affordable to the general public.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes... In the long run.

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

It's not fair, nor is it right...

it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. the rest of us are free to disagree

 

[Avorysuds]

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

It's not fair, nor is it right...

it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. the rest of us are free to disagree

Correct, but you see under a fair system you are allowed to invest your own money into a company if you really feel it's so awesome. Instead you have taken the liberty of stealing everyone’s money only to invest it with a roll of the dice gamble, only worse, the odds are against the tax payer getting a return.

It has become overwhelmingly clear you have almost no clue what you are talking about. You are nothing more than a fanboy, like the people I’m sure you hated with a passion under Bush… Sadly you support much of what Bush did because Obama has only continued his NEOCONSERVATIVE (religious liberal) policies.

Funny you mention that “others are allowed to disagree with me.” Well under your UNFAIR system of stealing we don’t have a choice to disagree… You are closer to Bush than you would ever realize, dude. Also if you have not noticed it’s pretty much you against the rest of the United States on this issue. It’s not like there is my opinion and then “the rest” agree with you somehow. Most people agree you are full of shit. Just re read the thread, you have to defend you position non-stop while getting support for FUCKING TM of all people hahaha.


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...09/26_applaud_gm_bailout_but_17_favor_boycott

Omg, like are 26% of Americas Liberal and educated or maybe it's as simple as liberal, indi or republican people don't like the bail out... Look, you're in the minority on this!

 

[Yurt]

Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause...sort of like BP getting credit for cleaning up the oil spill.

?

how did bush cause gm and chrysler's problems?

you won't be able to answer this and will run away

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So if GM declared bankruptcy the auto industry would have been healthier?

Yes... In the long run.

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

No, it was a way the unions and their supporters were afraid of, which is why an idiot in power stepped in and ignored the law.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It's not fair, nor is it right...

it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. the rest of us are free to disagree

Correct, but you see under a fair system you are allowed to invest your own money into a company if you really feel it's so awesome. Instead you have taken the liberty of stealing everyone’s money...

hysterical rants about stealing make you sound like a moron

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Bush gets some credit for helping to rescue what he helped cause...sort of like BP getting credit for cleaning up the oil spill.

?

how did bush cause gm and chrysler's problems?

you won't be able to answer this and will run away

Bush's economic policies like any other President's economic policies affect markets.

please read with caution: "Bush gets some credit for helping..."

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes... In the long run.

that is a risk no one in power would take. This isn't like Japan biting the bullet last decade, this was about a grave risk to our whole economy. Both Bush and Obama did what anyone else in authority would've done given the options at the time.

No, it was a way the unions and their supporters were afraid of, which is why an idiot in power stepped in and ignored the law.

another weird post about imaginary law breaking?

*sigh*

 

[eagleseven]

When will GM pay all the bondholders who were forced to accept worthless GM stock?

For someone who thinks Wallstreet needs to be regulated, Obama breaks Corporate Finance Regulations when it is convenient.