Demographic history of Palestine

[Saigon]

I this graphic really says all one needs to know about poulation development in the Levant.

What we see is that the Jews were the first to arrive, but were no longer the majority of the population by the 5th century.

Palestinians and Muslims have formed the majority of the population for the past 1,000 years.

Prior to the first Aliyah, there were only 7,000 Jews in the area, a tiny fraction of the population.

Also note that the Jewish community was always focused on two or three cities: Jerusalem, Jericho in particular, whereas the majority of the land had a clear Palestinian/Muslim majority much earlier than the 5th century.

(As the table isn't appearing clearly, I suggest checking the link)

Year Jews Christians Muslims Total

1 First half 1st century CE Majority - - ~2,500²
5th century Minority Majority - >1st century
End 12th century Minority Minority Majority >225
14th cent. (before B Death) Minority Minority Majority 225
14th cent. (after B Death) Minority Minority Majority 150
1533–1539 5 6 145 157
1690–1691 2 11 219 232
1800 7 22 246 275
1890 43 57 432 532
1914 94 70 525 689
1922 84 71 589 752
1931 175 89 760 1,033
1947 630 143 1,181 1,970​

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saigon]

A couple of key points from the same link:

According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.

In 1850, the Jewish population of Nablus, Gaza, Nazareth and Jaffa was 0.

The only centres with a significant Jewish population were Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron and Tiberias.

This then, provides a reasonable basis for a two state solution.

 

[Roudy]

A couple of key points from the same link:

According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.

In 1850, the Jewish population of Nablus, Gaza, Nazareth and Jaffa was 0.

The only centres with a significant Jewish population were Jerusalem, Tzfat, Hebron and Tiberias.

This then, provides a reasonable basis for a two state solution.

A history of Arab invasion. Wow. In 10 years there will be more Latinos in CA, Arizona, and Texas. Let's give them the land too then. Unfortunately the Turks and Brits owned the land for the last 700 years, and now it's in Israel's hand. The most significant number you tip toed around was that Jews maintained a presence in their holy land throughout the millennia, and most importantly they were MAJORITY population in Jerusalem the capital of Israel, as early as 1800's.

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

The number of staggering errors you manage to shove into every sentence sits right at the margins of what could be mere errors.

1) Britain never "owned" the area. It was passed to them as a UN mandate, with a view to shepherding the regions towards autonomy.

2) Settling on unoccupied land is not invasion. As stated, in towns like Gaza, Nablus and Nazareth, the Jewish population was 0 in 1850.

3) Jews probably never constituted the majority population of Jerusalem, In 1850, there were 630 Jewish households out of a total of 2,393. That is around 24%.

4) No one disputes that Jews have lived in the region for 3,000 years. The greater issue is that they generally only lived in 3 or 4 cities, and were a small minority in most of those as well.

Rather than simply repeating the same nonsense, please acknowledge these points so that we can move on.

 

[Saigon]

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

You know this is a lie.

Even JStone's hero Bernard Lewis admits:

Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire objected to Zionists, since the very concept of such a nation was unknown to the Arabs of the area at the time and did not come into being until later. Even the concept of Arab nationalism in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, "had not reached significant proportions before the outbreak of World War I."

In his book The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War, James L. Gelvin states that "Palestinian nationalism emerged during the interwar period in response to Zionist immigration and settlement."[12] However, this does does not make Palestinian identity any less legitimate: "The fact that Palestinian nationalism developed later than Zionism and indeed in response to it does not in any way diminish the legitimacy of Palestinian nationalism or make it less valid than Zionism. All nationalisms arise in opposition to some "other." Why else would there be the need to specify who you are? And all nationalisms are defined by what they oppose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism

As always, it would be best if you could admit that you were wrong, and stop posting the same lies over and over and over again.

 

[Roudy]

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

You know this is a lie.

Even JStone's hero Bernard Lewis admits:

Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire objected to Zionists, since the very concept of such a nation was unknown to the Arabs of the area at the time and did not come into being until later. Even the concept of Arab nationalism in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, "had not reached significant proportions before the outbreak of World War I."

In his book The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War, James L. Gelvin states that "Palestinian nationalism emerged during the interwar period in response to Zionist immigration and settlement."[12] However, this does does not make Palestinian identity any less legitimate: "The fact that Palestinian nationalism developed later than Zionism and indeed in response to it does not in any way diminish the legitimacy of Palestinian nationalism or make it less valid than Zionism. All nationalisms arise in opposition to some "other." Why else would there be the need to specify who you are? And all nationalisms are defined by what they oppose.

Palestinian nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As always, it would be best if you could admit that you were wrong, and stop posting the same lies over and over and over again.

you just posted a link which proves that you were wrong. Thanks.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Please post honestly.

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

This statement is false, as even the most right wing historians date Palestinian nationalism back to the 1920s.

Please admit that you were wrong.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

The number of staggering errors you manage to shove into every sentence sits right at the margins of what could be mere errors.

1) Britain never "owned" the area. It was passed to them as a UN mandate, with a view to shepherding the regions towards autonomy.

2) Settling on unoccupied land is not invasion. As stated, in towns like Gaza, Nablus and Nazareth, the Jewish population was 0 in 1850.

3) Jews probably never constituted the majority population of Jerusalem, In 1850, there were 630 Jewish households out of a total of 2,393. That is around 24%.

4) No one disputes that Jews have lived in the region for 3,000 years. The greater issue is that they generally only lived in 3 or 4 cities, and were a small minority in most of those as well.

Rather than simply repeating the same nonsense, please acknowledge these points so that we can move on.

1 through 4 is bullshit. Britain had 100,000 forces in Palestine with clear intentions of ruling it. The area was part of the defeated Ottoman Nazi alliance. Never owned or ruled by Arabs. Jerusalem was indeed majority Jews look it up. You just posted a link claiming correctly that "Palestine nationalism emerged after 1948..." even Arab leaders ridiculed and laughed at the existence of an Arab Palestine at the time. Any idea why?

Please admit you are fulla shit so we can move on.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

Please post honestly.

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

This statement is false, as even the most right wing historians date Palestinian nationalism back to the 1920s.

Please admit that you were wrong.

In 1920's the Palestinians would be Jews only.

 

[docmauser1]

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

You know this is a lie. Even JStone's hero Bernard Lewis admits: Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire objected to Zionists, since the very concept of such a nation was unknown to the Arabs of the area at the time and did not come into being until later. Even the concept of Arab nationalism in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, "had not reached significant proportions before the outbreak of World War I."

Ah! So it wasn't before "... the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." as per Winnie Churchill. Cool.

 

[Saigon]

In 1920's the Palestinians would be Jews only.

Demographics 1922

Jewish 84,000

Muslim 589,000

Christian 71,000

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Really, Roudy, you're just a child, aren't you?

It's really starting to look to me like you simply can not read or write well enough to know what is going on.

 

[Roudy]

No such thing as an Arab Palestinian before 1964.

You know this is a lie. Even JStone's hero Bernard Lewis admits: Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire objected to Zionists, since the very concept of such a nation was unknown to the Arabs of the area at the time and did not come into being until later. Even the concept of Arab nationalism in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, "had not reached significant proportions before the outbreak of World War I."

Ah! So it wasn't before "... the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." as per Winnie Churchill. Cool.

Yep. That's why I thanked Saigoon.

 

[Saigon]

Britain had 100,000 forces in Palestine with clear intentions of ruling it.

Articles of the Palestine mandate:

Preamble) Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

2) The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home,

3) The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Just a silly, helpless, illiterate child.

 

[Roudy]

In 1920's the Palestinians would be Jews only.

Demographics 1922

Jewish 84,000

Muslim 589,000

Christian 71,000

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Really, Roudy, you're just a child, aren't you?

It's really starting to look to me like you simply can not read or write well enough to know what is going on.

The Arabs did not refer to themselves as Palestinians in the 1920's thats a fact.

Funny I wanted to ask the same question of you. Are you a child? You ask questions and make outlandish claims as though you've never set foot in the Middle East and especially not Israel. Is somebody feeding you this garbage or do you come up with it on your own?

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Please address the points made.

 

[Roudy]

Britain had 100,000 forces in Palestine with clear intentions of ruling it.

Articles of the Palestine mandate:

Preamble) Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

2) The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home,

3) The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Just a silly, helpless, illiterate child.

Are you fucking blind? It said Govt of Britannic Majesty. Not Arabic majesty. Not Palestinic govt of Islamic filthisty.

Now it can't even read what it posts.

Already told you the Brits sided with the Arabs at first.

Hilarious.

 

[Artevelde]

I this graphic really says all one needs to know about poulation development in the Levant.

What we see is that the Jews were the first to arrive, but were no longer the majority of the population by the 5th century.

Palestinians and Muslims have formed the majority of the population for the past 1,000 years.

Prior to the first Aliyah, there were only 7,000 Jews in the area, a tiny fraction of the population.

Also note that the Jewish community was always focused on two or three cities: Jerusalem, Jericho in particular, whereas the majority of the land had a clear Palestinian/Muslim majority much earlier than the 5th century.

(As the table isn't appearing clearly, I suggest checking the link)

Year Jews Christians Muslims Total

1 First half 1st century CE Majority - - ~2,500²
5th century Minority Majority - >1st century
End 12th century Minority Minority Majority >225
14th cent. (before B Death) Minority Minority Majority 225
14th cent. (after B Death) Minority Minority Majority 150
1533–1539 5 6 145 157
1690–1691 2 11 219 232
1800 7 22 246 275
1890 43 57 432 532
1914 94 70 525 689
1922 84 71 589 752
1931 175 89 760 1,033
1947 630 143 1,181 1,970​

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These statistics may or may not be true (most cannot be proven in any event and they certainly are subject to debate and are also meaningless without clear definitions of which territories are involved and how the population is classified). But all of this is pretty academic because the relevance of this for the current situation is exactly zero.

 

[Roudy]

I this graphic really says all one needs to know about poulation development in the Levant.

What we see is that the Jews were the first to arrive, but were no longer the majority of the population by the 5th century.

Palestinians and Muslims have formed the majority of the population for the past 1,000 years.

Prior to the first Aliyah, there were only 7,000 Jews in the area, a tiny fraction of the population.

Also note that the Jewish community was always focused on two or three cities: Jerusalem, Jericho in particular, whereas the majority of the land had a clear Palestinian/Muslim majority much earlier than the 5th century.

(As the table isn't appearing clearly, I suggest checking the link)

Year Jews Christians Muslims Total

1 First half 1st century CE Majority - - ~2,500²
5th century Minority Majority - >1st century
End 12th century Minority Minority Majority >225
14th cent. (before B Death) Minority Minority Majority 225
14th cent. (after B Death) Minority Minority Majority 150
1533–1539 5 6 145 157
1690–1691 2 11 219 232
1800 7 22 246 275
1890 43 57 432 532
1914 94 70 525 689
1922 84 71 589 752
1931 175 89 760 1,033
1947 630 143 1,181 1,970​

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These statistics may or may not be true (most cannot be proven in any event and they certainly are subject to debate and are also meaningless without clear definitions of which territories are involved and how the population is classified). But all of this is pretty academic because the relevance of this for the current situation is exactly zero.

Art I give you the floor, enjoy making fun of this ignorant moron.

 

[Saigon]

Artevelde -

I think it is best to view these statistics as being indicative of trends, rather than being precise right down to the last village or household, but they show a pattern which every major historical book I have read confirms.

There is really no question at all that Jews never lived in many of what are now the major Palestinian claims - Nalbus, Ramallah, Jenin etc.

This is vital in determing a lasting peace and fair borders.

I have never seen the point in going back to 500BC to determine who owns what land, but who lived on what land from the time of the first major Aliyah in 1899 is absolutely crucial.

 

[Artevelde]

I this graphic really says all one needs to know about poulation development in the Levant.

What we see is that the Jews were the first to arrive, but were no longer the majority of the population by the 5th century.

Palestinians and Muslims have formed the majority of the population for the past 1,000 years.

Prior to the first Aliyah, there were only 7,000 Jews in the area, a tiny fraction of the population.

Also note that the Jewish community was always focused on two or three cities: Jerusalem, Jericho in particular, whereas the majority of the land had a clear Palestinian/Muslim majority much earlier than the 5th century.

(As the table isn't appearing clearly, I suggest checking the link)

Year Jews Christians Muslims Total

1 First half 1st century CE Majority - - ~2,500²
5th century Minority Majority - >1st century
End 12th century Minority Minority Majority >225
14th cent. (before B Death) Minority Minority Majority 225
14th cent. (after B Death) Minority Minority Majority 150
1533–1539 5 6 145 157
1690–1691 2 11 219 232
1800 7 22 246 275
1890 43 57 432 532
1914 94 70 525 689
1922 84 71 589 752
1931 175 89 760 1,033
1947 630 143 1,181 1,970​

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These statistics may or may not be true (most cannot be proven in any event and they certainly are subject to debate and are also meaningless without clear definitions of which territories are involved and how the population is classified). But all of this is pretty academic because the relevance of this for the current situation is exactly zero.

Art I give you the floor, enjoy making fun of this ignorant moron.

The floor doesn't really interest me. I prefer a nice couch.

Saigon doesn't strike me as a moron, but I'm sure he/she can defend him/herself.