Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

Boss

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Apr 21, 2012
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We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!
 
We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!
As well as definitive proof that the physical existence of the Christ rules out the possibility of him being God, without violating your premise that is.
 
When someone believes something, it's true. That is, a truth exists in the universe. That could be totally subjective and impossible to demonstrate to or share with another. That is the problem with this argument. Does God exist? Yes, if you believe. Can you prove it to others? No. All you can prove is that YOU believe and, thus, belief exists. That is all you can show to the world.
 
I have better proof than that, but nothing I would share with the swine on these boards.
 
You've proven spirituality exists.

By your logic we can say that 911 really was an inside job simply because some people believe that it wash.

:rolleyes:
 
Your qualification for what passes for "definitive Proof" is pretty freaking loose. It doesn't pass the smell test.
 
We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!

All you have established is that spirituality exists. Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more than that. Humans are fallible and so is their spirituality. Under your "logic" that makes your God fallible too since his existence depends entirely upon imperfect humans ability to conceive of his existence. Since you raised the specter of spirituality being "proof" for the existence of other worldly entities you are claiming that demons exist too. Is that where you really want to go with this argument?
 
A nation that prays to God for true guidance will receive true guidance. Proof positive of God. A person who prays for true guidance from God will receive the very same. A person who does not believe in God will not ask for guidance and will receive none.
 
A nation that prays to God for true guidance will receive true guidance. Proof positive of God. A person who prays for true guidance from God will receive the very same. A person who does not believe in God will not ask for guidance and will receive none.

Demonstrably false.
 
We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!

You make me laugh longtime.
 
All you have established is that spirituality exists. Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more than that. Humans are fallible and so is their spirituality. Under your "logic" that makes your God fallible too since his existence depends entirely upon imperfect humans ability to conceive of his existence. Since you raised the specter of spirituality being "proof" for the existence of other worldly entities you are claiming that demons exist too. Is that where you really want to go with this argument?

I have established that spirituality has always existed in humans, which means 'God' exists. You can't have spirituality and not be spiritual. I never said I could prove WHOSE god(s) exist.

Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more? Such as? I mean, I proved that man has always worshiped something, and Darwin said if a species has inherent traits they must be fundamental. Mankind has always had this fundamental behavior, therefore, there must be a purpose. Something has to first exist, in order to have purpose. If there were no God, human spirituality would have vanished in our species long ago.

Humans ARE fallible, and so is their spirituality. You can say that Religion is man's fallible way of understanding their spiritual maker. I don't understand how man's fallibility means God must also be fallible. I also don't understand why God has to be infallible to exist. Nor does existence demand or require belief. Black holes existed in the universe long before we believed they existed.

Demons? Interesting twist! Of course, we can use basic physical principles and advanced logic, and figure out, if "good" exists, then "evil" must also exist. If it didn't, we'd have no idea of what "good" is. This means demon spirits do exist, and as a matter of fact, some humans worship these demon spirits, and that is their God. Again... never claimed I could prove WHOSE god exists.
 
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As well as definitive proof that the physical existence of the Christ rules out the possibility of him being God, without violating your premise that is.

Hmm... So if an omnipotent spirit decides to manifest itself in the physical world, that is something the omnipotent entity can't achieve? Is that what you're saying?
 
All you have established is that spirituality exists. Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more than that. Humans are fallible and so is their spirituality. Under your "logic" that makes your God fallible too since his existence depends entirely upon imperfect humans ability to conceive of his existence. Since you raised the specter of spirituality being "proof" for the existence of other worldly entities you are claiming that demons exist too. Is that where you really want to go with this argument?

I have established that spirituality has always existed in humans, which means 'God' exists. You can't have spirituality and not be spiritual. I never said I could prove WHOSE god(s) exist.

Proof of the existence of a deity requires far more? Such as? I mean, I proved that man has always worshiped something, and Darwin said if a species has inherent traits they must be fundamental. Mankind has always had this fundamental behavior, therefore, there must be a purpose. Something has to first exist, in order to have purpose. If there were no God, human spirituality would have vanished in our species long ago.

Humans ARE fallible, and so is their spirituality. You can say that Religion is man's fallible way of understanding their spiritual maker. I don't understand how man's fallibility means God must also be fallible. I also don't understand why God has to be infallible to exist. Nor does existence demand or require belief. Black holes existed in the universe long before we believed they existed.

Demons? Interesting twist! Of course, we can use basic physical principles and advanced logic, and figure out, if "good" exists, then "evil" must also exist. If it didn't, we'd have no idea of what "good" is. This means demon spirits do exist, and as a matter of fact, some humans worship these demon spirits, and that is their God. Again... never claimed I could prove WHOSE god exists.

I think you're supremely confused as to what "proof" means.

"Spirituality" in a person does not prove God. For it to be proof, you'd have to show that it cannot be an abstract reality the person is creating in his/her own mind. A frame of being they chose to live as - despite whether God exists or not. Meaning, just because a person is "spiritual" does not mean that whatever they pray to or believe in ACTUALLY EXISTS.

That's the most retarded excuse for "proof" I could possibly imagine.
 
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When someone believes something, it's true. That is, a truth exists in the universe. That could be totally subjective and impossible to demonstrate to or share with another. That is the problem with this argument. Does God exist? Yes, if you believe. Can you prove it to others? No. All you can prove is that YOU believe and, thus, belief exists. That is all you can show to the world.

While I see your point from a philosophical sense, you are ignoring humans profound connection with spiritual belief, which as existed as long as man has existed. For this fundamental characteristic to always be a part of who we are and what we are, is very important in this argument, but you are choosing to ignore it. Something greater than self has to exist, because humans have this burning inherent need or requirement to worship something greater than self, and they always have.

Okay, let me ask you this... Do you love your mother? Can you give me proof that you love your mother? Does my belief that you love your mother, have anything to do with whether you actually love your mother, or whether your love is real? Do you simply "believe" you love your mother, or do you really love her?
 
I think you're supremely confused as to what "proof" means.

"Spirituality" in a person does not prove God. For it to be proof, you'd have to show that it cannot be an abstract reality the person is creating in his/her own mind. A frame of being they chose to live as - despite whether God exists or not. Meaning, just because a person is "spiritual" does not mean whatever they pray to or believe in ACTUALLY EXISTS.

That's the most retarded excuse for "proof" I could possibly imagine.

No, you are the one who is confusing physical proof with spiritual proof. You are demanding physical evidence to support something not of the physical world. You are also requiring that any proof of God has to define what incarnation of God, and this is illogical as well. I can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt, two NFL teams will play in the Super Bowl this season. I don't have to tell you which teams to prove that.
 
As well as definitive proof that the physical existence of the Christ rules out the possibility of him being God, without violating your premise that is.

Hmm... So if an omnipotent spirit decides to manifest itself in the physical world, that is something the omnipotent entity can't achieve? Is that what you're saying?

Omnipotence is a paradox that logically excludes the possibility of an omnipotent deity of any sort.
 
When someone believes something, it's true. That is, a truth exists in the universe. That could be totally subjective and impossible to demonstrate to or share with another. That is the problem with this argument. Does God exist? Yes, if you believe. Can you prove it to others? No. All you can prove is that YOU believe and, thus, belief exists. That is all you can show to the world.

While I see your point from a philosophical sense, you are ignoring humans profound connection with spiritual belief, which as existed as long as man has existed. For this fundamental characteristic to always be a part of who we are and what we are, is very important in this argument, but you are choosing to ignore it. Something greater than self has to exist, because humans have this burning inherent need or requirement to worship something greater than self, and they always have.

Okay, let me ask you this... Do you love your mother? Can you give me proof that you love your mother? Does my belief that you love your mother, have anything to do with whether you actually love your mother, or whether your love is real? Do you simply "believe" you love your mother, or do you really love her?

Sorry, but what you're describing could just as easily be attributed to the mind, how we are 'hard wired', a result of inborn psychology.

But the essence of the statement is that every perception and, thus, belief, is internal and subjective by definition. There is no way to prove something to someone else, just their acceptance and their convincing you the see things the same way. Even that, ultimately, it is impossible to prove as' existentially, everything really could be a dream of some sort.

Maybe even the dream of 'God'.
 
I think you're supremely confused as to what "proof" means.

"Spirituality" in a person does not prove God. For it to be proof, you'd have to show that it cannot be an abstract reality the person is creating in his/her own mind. A frame of being they chose to live as - despite whether God exists or not. Meaning, just because a person is "spiritual" does not mean whatever they pray to or believe in ACTUALLY EXISTS.

That's the most retarded excuse for "proof" I could possibly imagine.

No, you are the one who is confusing physical proof with spiritual proof. You are demanding physical evidence to support something not of the physical world. You are also requiring that any proof of God has to define what incarnation of God, and this is illogical as well. I can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt, two NFL teams will play in the Super Bowl this season. I don't have to tell you which teams to prove that.

You're wrong, I'm not requiring physical proof.

I'd like to see the spiritual proof.

Just because people pray and are spiritual, does not mean that WHAT they pray to EXISTS. That is not proof of its existence, simply that they pray to it. I think your logic breaks down at the fact that you don't understand what "definitive proof" really means.
 
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