Debunking Liberal Myths About the Rich and the Capital Gains Tax

[mikegriffith1]

rightwinger said:

Let’s make the tax rate the same for Capital Gains as earned income. Sounds fair.

Now why, why, oh why would you want to make transactions that are vital for the economy more expensive? Why? Because of some blind, irrational hatred and envy of wealth and success? Because of some warped belief that you are entitled to other people's money as the long as the government takes it from them and gives it to you?

How many liberals who blindly hate the rich know or care that capital gains income from stocks, a common source of income for many rich people, is actually taxed twice because corporate earnings are also subject to the corporate income tax? The Tax Foundation:

When applied to profits earned from stocks, capital gains taxes result in the same dollar being taxed twice, also known as double taxation. That’s because corporate earnings are already subject to the corporate income tax. (LINK)

I can just hear some liberals now: "Good! Stick it to those evil rich people! Tax! Tax! Tax! Karl Marx was a genius!"

Just remember that those evil, greedy, grasping rich people who get their money from capital gains pay a higher tax rate than most American workers pay. Most working Americans pay an income tax rate of no more than 15%, and many working Americans pay a tax rate of less than 12%.

According to the federal 2024 long-term capital gains tax rates, a single person who earns $500K from capital gains pays a tax rate of 15%. If that person makes over $519K from capital gains, their tax rate goes up to 20% (LINK). If a married couple filing jointly makes $500K from capital gains, they pay a tax rate of 15%. If they make over $584K, they pay a tax rate of 20% (LINK). Again, most Americans pay a tax rate of no more than 15%, and many pay a tax rate of no more than 12%.

Moreover, as I've noted before, rich people pay far more in state and local property taxes than do average working Americans, because the rich get only a small deduction, if any, for those taxes, whereas your average worker can deduct all or most of those taxes.

So when are liberals going to stop peddling the falsehood that rich people who "only" pay capital gains taxes are not paying their fair share?

Many countries have the good sense not to tax capital gains income at the same rate as salaried income. Some of the sensible capital gains tax rates around the world:

Argentina: 15%
Bolivia: 0%
Bulgaria: 10%
China: 20%
Ecuador: 10%
Greece: 15%
Greenland: 0%
Guatemala: 10%
Hungary: 15%
India: 10% to 20%
Netherlands: 0%
New Zealand: 0%
Peru: 5%
Singapore: 0%

 

[rightwinger]

Now why, why, oh why would you want to make transactions that are vital for the economy more expensive?

Actually LABOR is vital to the economy

Labor creates goods and services and generates wealth…..investment just moves money from one place to another

 

[rightwinger]

Argentina: 15%
Bolivia: 0%
Bulgaria: 10%
China: 20%
Ecuador: 10%
Greece: 15%
Greenland: 0%
Guatemala: 10%
Hungary: 15%
India: 10% to 20%
Netherlands: 0%
New Zealand: 0%
Peru: 5%
Singapore: 0%

THESE are the countries you want us to emulate?

 

[berg80]

Liberals endlessly argue that the rich are not paying their fair share because many rich people do not pay income taxes but "only" pay capital gains taxes. Many rich people do not work for anyone and therefore do not receive a salary--and thus do not pay income taxes. These rich folks earn their money via capital gains and therefore they pay capital gains taxes.

Okay, well, if you make between $47K and $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 15%. If you make over $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 20%. This is well above the tax rate paid by most employed Americans. Tax data show that 77% of Americans pay an income tax rate of 15%. If your household income is between $22K than $89.4K, your income tax rate is only about 11% (since the income tax is graduated and the first $21K of household income is taxed at a rate of only 10%).

Anyone can confirm these facts by checking the federal capital gains tax brackets and the federal income tax brackets.

So, rich people who earn their money from capital gains do not pay a lower tax rate than most other Americans--they pay a higher tax rate than most other Americans.

Furthermore, these numbers do not include the enormous amount of taxes that many rich people pay in state and local property taxes, and the rich, unlike most other people, do not get a tax deduction for all of those taxes.

This adds some balance to your post.

12 Myths About Taxing the Rich — Inequality Media with Robert Reich

www.inequalitymedia.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This adds some balance to your post.

12 Myths About Taxing the Rich — Inequality Media with Robert Reich

www.inequalitymedia.org

What's that funny little guy whining about now?

 

[mikegriffith1]

Actually LABOR is vital to the economy

Labor creates goods and services and generates wealth…..investment just moves money from one place to another

Huh? This is your answer to my question of why you would want to make transactions that are vital for the economy (capital gains transactions) more expensive???

"Investment just moves money from one place to another"???!!! Holy cow! Are you in junior high and just repeating what you heard from your far-left social studies teacher?!

Well, using that comical logic, we could say that paychecks aren't vital because, gee, they "just move money from one place to another"!

What astounding ignorance about basic economics. Take off your socialist blinders and do some serious research into economics.

THESE are the countries you want us to emulate?

What?! Do you ever do any serious research before you post your liberal drivel? So now you're dissing the economies of the Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, Hungary, Greece, China, India, etc.? Really? Just HUH? These nations all have viable, strong economies.

The Economist magazine recently rated Greece as having the top-performing European economy in 2023:

Greece hailed again as global economic 'country of the year'

The Economist rated Greece as the top-performing economy in 2023. Euronews Business breaks down the study and considers how the rest of Europe performed last year.

www.euronews.com

Reuters reports the following about India's economy:

India has consistently beat market expectations and is ranked as one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, with China struggling to recover after the pandemic and the euro zone narrowly escaping a recession. India revised its growth estimate for the current fiscal year to March 31 to 7.6% from 7.3%. Feb 29, 2024 (LINK)

The World Bank says the following about Singapore:

50 years ago, Singapore was confronted with high unemployment, poor infrastructure, and a housing shortage. Today the city-state is ranked as one of the most livable cities, boasting one the highest levels of human capital development in the world. (LINK)

Here's what Wikipedia says about Hungary's economy:

The economy of Hungary is a high-income mixed economy, ranked as the 9th most complex economy according to the Economic Complexity Index.[25] Hungary is a member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) with a very high human development index and a skilled labour force, with the 22nd lowest income inequality by Gini index in the world. The Hungarian economy is the 53rd-largest economy in the world (out of 188 countries measured by IMF) with $265.037 billion annual output,[26] and ranks 41st in the world in terms of GDP per capita measured by purchasing power parity. Hungary has an export-oriented market economy with a heavy emphasis on foreign trade; thus the country is the 35th largest export economy in the world. (LINK)

New Zealand:

The economy of New Zealand is a highly developed free-market economy.[24] It is the 52nd-largest national economy in the world when measured by nominal gross domestic product (GDP) and the 62nd-largest in the world when measured by purchasing power parity (PPP). New Zealand has one of the most globalised economies and depends greatly on international trade, mainly with China, Australia, the European Union, the United States, and Japan. New Zealand's 1983 Closer Economic Relations agreement with Australia means that the economy aligns closely with that of Australia.

Economy of Aotearoa New Zealand by sector and organisation type
New Zealand's diverse economy is made up of various types of informal and formal organisations, divided between two sectors, public and private. It has a sizeable service sector, accounting for 63% of all GDP activity as of 2013.[25] As a large island nation New Zealand has abundant natural resources and mineral wealth.[26] Prominent manufacturing industries include aluminium production, food processing, metal fabrication, wood and paper products. Mining, manufacturing, electricity, gas, water, and waste services accounted for 16.5% of GDP as of 2013.[25] The primary sector continues to dominate New Zealand's exports, despite accounting for only 6.5% of GDP as of 2013.[25] The information technology sector is growing rapidly.[27]

The major capital market is the New Zealand Exchange (NZX). As of February 2023, NZX had a total of 338 listed securities, equity, debt and funds with a combined market capitalisation of NZD $226 billion.[28] (LINK)

The Netherlands:

Over 170 million consumers (more than one-third of the population of the European Union) reside within a 300-mile radius of the Netherlands. The country is a key center within the global business network, with advanced infrastructure geared towards the transportation of goods, people, and data. Its core distribution points include Rotterdam, Europe’s largest port, and Amsterdam Schiphol Airport, the fourth largest airport in Europe for cargo. The country has capitalized on its location and advanced economy to become one of the top trading nations in the world.

The Netherlands is the seventeenth largest economy in the world and the fifth largest in the European Monetary Union (the Eurozone), with a gross domestic product (GDP) of just under $1 trillion in 2022. The United States and the Netherlands have a strong bilateral relationship, based on close historical, cultural, and commercial ties. The relationship dates back to the American Revolution and is one of the United States’ oldest, continuous bilateral relationships. The United States is the largest foreign investor in the Netherlands and has its largest trade surplus ($51.5 billion in 2022) with the Netherlands.

The Netherlands consistently ranks highly on various international indexes. The 2022 IMD Competitive Index ranked the Netherlands as the fifth most competitive economy in the world. The Netherlands’ top position in the ranking is attributed to its outstanding performance in areas conducive to innovation and sustainable prosperity, driven by investments in innovation infrastructure, access to talent, a competitive labor market, and a robust financial network, along with strong international trade links. The Netherlands also ranked fifth in the 2022 Global Innovation Index from the World Intellectual Property Organization, fifth in the 2023 United Nations’ World Happiness Report, and first in the 2022 Education First English Proficiency Index. (LINK)

Obviously, not every nation on the list is thriving right now, but they are all developed countries with modern economies.

 

[rightwinger]

Huh? This is your answer to my question of why you would want to make transactions that are vital for the economy (capital gains transactions) more expensive???

Why do you want to make labor more expensive?
It is vital for the economy
Why do you want to discourage labor by taxing it so high?

If I work on a Ford assembly line, I am creating a product, creating wealth

If you move your investment from Ford to GM, you have not created anything. Only shifted the value of each company

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why do you want to make labor more expensive?
Why do you want to discourage labor by taxing it so high?

If I work on a Ford assembly line, I am creating a product, creating wealth

If you move your investment from Ford to GM, you have not created anything. Only shifted the value of each company

If you move your investment from Ford to GM, you have not created anything.

So why do you care? Why do you want to tax me for it?

 

[rightwinger]

If you move your investment from Ford to GM, you have not created anything.

So why do you care? Why do you want to tax me for it?

Because it is INCOME

Income from sweat is as valuable as income from shifting money
Should be taxed the same

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Because it is INCOME

Income from sweat is as valuable as income from shifting money
Should be taxed the same

Because it is INCOME

But all I did was move money around.

Income from sweat is as valuable as income from shifting money
Should be taxed the same

Sounds good. 20% top rate.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Biden's budget has proposed a $110 BILLION dollar tax hike on the poor and working class. The old Washington 'tax the rich' scam. Whacking oil, gas and coal with $110 billion hike...wait for it...which will get passed right down to the poor and working class in higher energy prices.

Do the Corpies Ever Pass Down Tax Cuts to the Consumers?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Do the Corpies Ever Pass Down Tax Cuts to the Consumers?

Or the shareholders? Or the employees?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This adds some balance to your post.

12 Myths About Taxing the Rich — Inequality Media with Robert Reich

www.inequalitymedia.org

Palaces Often Hired Dwarf Entertainers

More HeirHead Love from those who only hate HeirDads, flattering the spoiled slime's Oedipus Complexes. Politics is a puppet show rehearsed at a prep school. Let these hireling oinkonomists figure out how much tax revenue abolishing trust funds and limiting inheritances to $100,000 would get us, the people. Even greater than that benefit, it would end the plague of Affluenza Affirmative Action and save the nation.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Now why, why, oh why would you want to make transactions that are vital for the economy more expensive? Why? Because of some blind, irrational hatred and envy of wealth and success? Because of some warped belief that you are entitled to other people's money as the long as the government takes it from them and gives it to you?

How many liberals who blindly hate the rich know or care that capital gains income from stocks, a common source of income for many rich people, is actually taxed twice because corporate earnings are also subject to the corporate income tax? The Tax Foundation:

When applied to profits earned from stocks, capital gains taxes result in the same dollar being taxed twice, also known as double taxation. That’s because corporate earnings are already subject to the corporate income tax. (LINK)

I can just hear some liberals now: "Good! Stick it to those evil rich people! Tax! Tax! Tax! Karl Marx was a genius!"

Just remember that those evil, greedy, grasping rich people who get their money from capital gains pay a higher tax rate than most American workers pay. Most working Americans pay an income tax rate of no more than 15%, and many working Americans pay a tax rate of less than 12%.

According to the federal 2024 long-term capital gains tax rates, a single person who earns $500K from capital gains pays a tax rate of 15%. If that person makes over $519K from capital gains, their tax rate goes up to 20% (LINK). If a married couple filing jointly makes $500K from capital gains, they pay a tax rate of 15%. If they make over $584K, they pay a tax rate of 20% (LINK). Again, most Americans pay a tax rate of no more than 15%, and many pay a tax rate of no more than 12%.

Moreover, as I've noted before, rich people pay far more in state and local property taxes than do average working Americans, because the rich get only a small deduction, if any, for those taxes, whereas your average worker can deduct all or most of those taxes.

So when are liberals going to stop peddling the falsehood that rich people who "only" pay capital gains taxes are not paying their fair share?

Many countries have the good sense not to tax capital gains income at the same rate as salaried income. Some of the sensible capital gains tax rates around the world:

Argentina: 15%
Bolivia: 0%
Bulgaria: 10%
China: 20%
Ecuador: 10%
Greece: 15%
Greenland: 0%
Guatemala: 10%
Hungary: 15%
India: 10% to 20%
Netherlands: 0%
New Zealand: 0%
Peru: 5%
Singapore: 0%

Private-Sector Statism

The profit your bosses make from your work makes it easier for them to pay corporate taxes. So the employees are taxed twice, too. They also create the wealth of the stockholders, so that's a third tax they pay, covering the absentee-ownership parasites' capital-gains tax.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Private-Sector Statism

The profit your bosses make from your work makes it easier for them to pay corporate taxes. So the employees are taxed twice, too. They also create the wealth of the stockholders, so that's a third tax they pay, covering the absentee-ownership parasites' capital-gains tax.

Another display of astonishing liberal ignorance about economics and how an economy works. Assuming you even have a job and that your job includes a 401K, how do you suppose your 401K would do if there were no capital gains transactions?

The "wealth of the stockholders" comes from more than just the company's employees. Sheesh, how can anyone be so ignorant about how companies make profits? By the way, many companies offer employees the option to buy stock in the company.

And the profit that your bosses make from work also enables them to pay half of your Social Security and Medicare tax, to pay part of the cost of your healthcare plan, to match a portion of your 401K contributions, to give you paid vacation time, and to pay state and federal unemployment insurance taxes (so that you can collect unemployment compensation if you lose your job). And your bosses cannot deduct all of these expenses from their tax liability--they can deduct most of them, but not all of them. You know this, right?

It is scary that people like you vote.

rightwinger said:
Actually LABOR is vital to the economy

Labor creates goods and services and generates wealth…..investment just moves money from one place to another

With this kind of amazing ignorance about basic economics, it is no wonder that so many Democrats blindly hate rich people and wealth and have a Marxist sense of entitlement to other people's money.

When you buy a house, you are investing. When a rich person decides to build a new factory that will employ more workers, he is investing--and risking--his capital in the hope of earning more capital so he can then make more investments, etc., etc.

To say that "investment just moves money from one place to another" shows an appalling ignorance about the nature and function of investments.

Labor cannot create goods and services until someone invests the money to build the factories and businesses that employ labor.

Labor is indeed vital, but investment is equally vital, if not more so. The majority of laborers do not have the education and business acumen necessary to create and manage companies. On the other hand, businesses need capable and efficient employees in order to function and grow.

It is not either/or. Both labor and investment are vital.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Another display of astonishing liberal ignorance about economics and how an economy works. Assuming you even have a job and that your job includes a 401K, how do you suppose your 401K would do if there were no capital gains transactions?

The "wealth of the stockholders" comes from more than just the company's employees. Sheesh, how can anyone be so ignorant about how companies make profits? By the way, many companies offer employees the option to buy stock in the company.

And the profit that your bosses make from work also enables them to pay half of your Social Security and Medicare tax, to pay part of the cost of your healthcare plan, to match a portion of your 401K contributions, to give you paid vacation time, and to pay state and federal unemployment insurance taxes (so that you can collect unemployment compensation if you lose your job). And your bosses cannot deduct all of these expenses from their tax liability--they can deduct most of them, but not all of them. You know this, right?

It is scary that people like you vote.



With this kind of amazing ignorance about basic economics, it is no wonder that so many Democrats blindly hate rich people and wealth and have a Marxist sense of entitlement to other people's money.

When you buy a house, you are investing. When a rich person decides to build a new factory that will employ more workers, he is investing--and risking--his capital in the hope of earning more capital so he can then make more investments, etc., etc.

To say that "investment just moves money from one place to another" shows an appalling ignorance about the nature and function of investments.

Labor cannot create goods and services until someone invests the money to build the factories and businesses that employ labor.

Labor is indeed vital, but investment is equally vital, if not more so. The majority of laborers do not have the education and business acumen necessary to create and manage companies. On the other hand, businesses need capable and efficient employees in order to function and grow.

It is not either/or. Both labor and investment are vital.

If the Plutes Own a Man's Work, They Own That Man

 

[BluesLegend]

If you move your investment from Ford to GM, you have not created anything.

So why do you care? Why do you want to tax me for it?

Dems want to PUNISH tax you because you have more than they do.

 

[jbander]

Liberals endlessly argue that the rich are not paying their fair share because many rich people do not pay income taxes but "only" pay capital gains taxes. Many rich people do not work for anyone and therefore do not receive a salary--and thus do not pay income taxes. These rich folks earn their money via capital gains and therefore they pay capital gains taxes.

Okay, well, if you make between $47K and $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 15%. If you make over $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 20%. This is well above the tax rate paid by most employed Americans. Tax data show that 77% of Americans pay an income tax rate of 15%. If your household income is between $22K than $89.4K, your income tax rate is only about 11% (since the income tax is graduated and the first $21K of household income is taxed at a rate of only 10%).

Anyone can confirm these facts by checking the federal capital gains tax brackets and the federal income tax brackets.

So, rich people who earn their money from capital gains do not pay a lower tax rate than most other Americans--they pay a higher tax rate than most other Americans.

Furthermore, these numbers do not include the enormous amount of taxes that many rich people pay in state and local property taxes, and the rich, unlike most other people, do not get a tax deduction for all of those taxes.

Its income, it should be taxed at the same rate. This is a idiots delight, thinking that the 1/10% should have a special tax rate, because they are so ungodly rich , that they are special or some bullshit like that,. Minimum tax rate and cut all tax cuts for the wealthy and roll them down to the people who didn't get their wealth from mommy and daddy. Who actually do something to earn their keep. Any tax law where 99% of it goes to the 1% is fucked.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Its income, it should be taxed at the same rate. This is a idiots delight, thinking that the 1/10% should have a special tax rate, because they are so ungodly rich , that they are special or some bullshit like that,. Minimum tax rate and cut all tax cuts for the wealthy and roll them down to the people who didn't get their wealth from mommy and daddy. Who actually do something to earn their keep. Any tax law where 99% of it goes to the 1% is fucked.

Its income, it should be taxed at the same rate.

Sounds good. Tax everything at 20%. Flat rate.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Liberals endlessly argue that the rich are not paying their fair share because many rich people do not pay income taxes but "only" pay capital gains taxes. Many rich people do not work for anyone and therefore do not receive a salary--and thus do not pay income taxes. These rich folks earn their money via capital gains and therefore they pay capital gains taxes.

Okay, well, if you make between $47K and $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 15%. If you make over $519K in capital gains, your capital gains tax rate is 20%. This is well above the tax rate paid by most employed Americans. Tax data show that 77% of Americans pay an income tax rate of 15%. If your household income is between $22K than $89.4K, your income tax rate is only about 11% (since the income tax is graduated and the first $21K of household income is taxed at a rate of only 10%).

Anyone can confirm these facts by checking the federal capital gains tax brackets and the federal income tax brackets.

So, rich people who earn their money from capital gains do not pay a lower tax rate than most other Americans--they pay a higher tax rate than most other Americans.

Furthermore, these numbers do not include the enormous amount of taxes that many rich people pay in state and local property taxes, and the rich, unlike most other people, do not get a tax deduction for all of those taxes.

/----/