Death by Wind Turbine.........

[mamooth]

By that same logic, making nuclear power plants, natural gas power plants, and hydroelectric dams increases the use of coal, so those things shouldn't be done either.

Heck, making coal power plants increases the use of coal, so that also shouldn't be done.

Is there some mystery point hidden inside your very peculiar logic? All we get from you is how everything requires coal to being with, therefore everything shouldn't be done. And that's not really helpful.

The more rational people, however, point out that wind turbines quickly pay back the energy used to make them, and thus each wind turbine results in vastly less amounts of coal being used.

 

[orogenicman]

How many coal miners have died worldwide? In the U.S. alone 100,000 died during the 20th century. That is 1,000 per year. And that is just for the fuel source, not to mention deaths at coal-fired power plants. Got anything like that?

Per kilowatt would be the comparison. Coal use is increased to provide the energy to build wind turbines, you can not build millions of wind turbines without coal.

You can if you get rid of the coal fired plants and replace them with natural gas fired plants, which is what we are currently doing by attrition, and continue to build more alternative energy sources. The fact is that coals' days are numbered. Get over it.

Oh, sorry, I was thinking of the tower which is made of steel, many, many, tons, which takes coke which comes from coal.

Actually, most steel production today in the U.S. is made from recycled metal. And that takes little, if any coal to produce, because the steel has already been extracted from the ore. The coal is used in the extraction process, which is irrelevant if your raw material is recycled steel. So, the amount of coal used for the production of steel for use in wind farms is much less than you think, and far less than is used in electrical production, which is its primary use.

Most steel produced in the usa us from scrap? Link? Alloys are not made from scrap, which is what a wind turbine requires.

The bulk of the weight of a wind turbine is plain old steel. The housing, the frame, the post it sits on, all are made of ordinary steel.

 

[HenryBHough]

News out of Ireland tonight.

Apple wants to build a gigantic data center powered entirely by renewable sources. But the Irish are up in arms because they don't want to stinkin' WINDMILLS!

Apple s data centre plan sparks anti-wind protest - Independent.ie

 

[HUGGY]

News out of Ireland tonight.

Apple wants to build a gigantic data center powered entirely by renewable sources. But the Irish are up in arms because they don't want to stinkin' WINDMILLS!

Apple s data centre plan sparks anti-wind protest - Independent.ie

You people and your lying posts.

I read the linked 411 and it said NOTHING anywhere about "the Irish being up in arms".

Your dishonesty has been noted.

 

[Dragonlady]

What real disasters are;

• April 5, 2010: Upper Big Branch Mine disaster, West Virginia, United States. An explosion occurred in Massey Energy's Upper Big Branch coal. Twenty-nine out of thirty-one miners at the site were killed.[9]
• November 19, 2010: Pike River Mine disaster in New Zealand. At 3:45pm, the coal mine exploded. Twenty-nine men underground died immediately, or shortly afterwards, from the blast or from the toxic atmosphere. Two men in the stone drift, some distance from the mine workings, managed to escape. (Extract from Royal Commission of Enquiry Report on Pike River.)
• May 13, 2014: Soma mine disaster took place in Soma, Turkey. The accident, called the worst mining accident ever in Turkey, and it is the worst mining accident in 21st century so far. 301 people died.

Mining accident - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

More killed in the Upper Big Branch Disaster than have been killed by by wind turbines in that whole period.

Gee Old Crock, lighten up, I did when I created this thread, but at the same time its serious. People are required to stay at least 400 meters away from the small wind turbines, further from the large ones, a half a mile of public land lost to the public, or more, simply because these towers are dangerous.

On top of that, they catch fire and people do die. I could of started this thread with the link, to many deaths, but I did not, I simply wished for people to think about these things, from a safety aspect, and discuss that. But nooooooooo. Its got to be all or nothing, not one word can be said against the great Wind Turbine, even if they are killing people along with millions of birds.

These people will literally not let one disparaging truth be stated on this corner of the internet, about Wind Turbines.

People can not live by wind turbines, they are dangerous, the manufacture says so, experience says so.

Disgusting to think, that someone may actually get hurt marveling at one of these, when it breaks, because they heard all the hype, they are great and beautiful.

Wind Turbines destroy the Earth, miles of earth, not just a spot, miles of earth a half a mile wide. Sounds like a thread, thanks old crock!

I live in an area with hundreds of wind turbines. There are a half dozen of them in the field across the road from our house. We didn't even know they were there until the trees were bare of leaves last fall.

They're quiet, efficient, and they're not making anyone sick. These are just lies being spread by the flat earthers like yourself.

Your post is full of lies. The wind turbines are very quiet. They haven't injured or killed anyone in our county, and farmers are ploughing fields and planting crops all around them.

They aren't destroying the land either.

Toronto? and you live across from a Wind Turbine that is not taller than the trees? Nobody builds Wind Turbines that are the same height as trees! The trees would block the wind, I guess that is why you can not hear them, obviously they were built to secure a subsidy, not to provide electricity.

I say you exaggerate (I am being nice). Wind Turbines tower above trees. I could post dozens of pictures, like this one from Ontario.

I don't live in Toronto. A year and a half ago we moved to the Niagara Peninsula.

The wind turbines are taller than trees. But if they are behind a large stand of trees, the trees obscure the turbines because the trees are in the foreground. It's called "perspective . Things that are closer to you appear to be larger than things which are farther away.

Like I said, bullshit, you claimed you never knew they were there until the leaves fell from the tree.

That's correct. The turbines are at least a mile away. The trees are literally on the other side of the road. So from our windows you can't see anything but the trees But when the trees were bare, we could see the windmills.

You clearly live in a city and have no clue about perspective or distance, or rural spaces.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You can if you get rid of the coal fired plants and replace them with natural gas fired plants, which is what we are currently doing by attrition, and continue to build more alternative energy sources. The fact is that coals' days are numbered. Get over it.

Oh, sorry, I was thinking of the tower which is made of steel, many, many, tons, which takes coke which comes from coal.

Actually, most steel production today in the U.S. is made from recycled metal. And that takes little, if any coal to produce, because the steel has already been extracted from the ore. The coal is used in the extraction process, which is irrelevant if your raw material is recycled steel. So, the amount of coal used for the production of steel for use in wind farms is much less than you think, and far less than is used in electrical production, which is its primary use.

Most steel produced in the usa us from scrap? Link? Alloys are not made from scrap, which is what a wind turbine requires.

Almost 70% of all aluminum is recycled.

Wind turbines are made of steel because they need to be strong enough to deal with the forces exerted by the wind on the blades.

Once again your ignorance is appalling.

Wind turbine blades are made of fiberglass, the tower is made of steel, now are you willing to make the claim zero aluminum is used in a wind turbine.

Your strawman exposes your ignorance.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Coal power, of course, is totally harmless to the environment.

Federal charges filed against Duke Energy after coal ash spills CharlotteObserver.com
---
Federal prosecutors Friday filed nine criminal charges accusing Duke Energy of violating the Clean Water Act by polluting four of the state’s rivers with coal ash.

Four of the misdemeanor counts stem from Duke’s Dan River power plant in Eden, 130 miles northeast of Charlotte, where a spill of 39,000 tons of ash a year ago prompted a grand jury investigation.

Other violations occurred at power plants near Charlotte, Asheville, Goldsboro and Moncure in Chatham County.
---

Making wind turbines increases the use of coal.

 

[elektra]

By that same logic, making nuclear power plants, natural gas power plants, and hydroelectric dams increases the use of coal, so those things shouldn't be done either.

Heck, making coal power plants increases the use of coal, so that also shouldn't be done.

Is there some mystery point hidden inside your very peculiar logic? All we get from you is how everything requires coal to being with, therefore everything shouldn't be done. And that's not really helpful.

The more rational people, however, point out that wind turbines quickly pay back the energy used to make them, and thus each wind turbine results in vastly less amounts of coal being used.

Except, you must use nuclear power, natural gas, and hydroelectric dams along with coal to make wind turbines, whereas Wind Turbines do not power the industry utilized to construct any other type of power plants.

Logic? From you, ha, ha.

 

[elektra]

Link? to show you that building a 300-400' tower of steel does not increase the use of Steel? Tell us how the construction of millions of Wind Turbines will decrease the use of Steel.

 

[Old Rocks]

Electra, not only silly, but very dumb. Do you really think that the electrons in the wires know the source of the energy that is pushing them? Whatever the source of the power, it is put on the grid, and taken off the grid without referance to it's source.

Really, you are proving yourself to be ignorant and silly beyond even ol' Billy Boob. Now that is quite an achievement.

 

[elektra]

Oh, sorry, I was thinking of the tower which is made of steel, many, many, tons, which takes coke which comes from coal.

Actually, most steel production today in the U.S. is made from recycled metal. And that takes little, if any coal to produce, because the steel has already been extracted from the ore. The coal is used in the extraction process, which is irrelevant if your raw material is recycled steel. So, the amount of coal used for the production of steel for use in wind farms is much less than you think, and far less than is used in electrical production, which is its primary use.

Most steel produced in the usa us from scrap? Link? Alloys are not made from scrap, which is what a wind turbine requires.

Almost 70% of all aluminum is recycled.

Wind turbines are made of steel because they need to be strong enough to deal with the forces exerted by the wind on the blades.

Once again your ignorance is appalling.

Wind turbine blades are made of fiberglass, the tower is made of steel, now are you willing to make the claim zero aluminum is used in a wind turbine.

Your strawman exposes your ignorance.

Your trolling validates my facts.

 

[elektra]

Gee Old Crock, lighten up, I did when I created this thread, but at the same time its serious. People are required to stay at least 400 meters away from the small wind turbines, further from the large ones, a half a mile of public land lost to the public, or more, simply because these towers are dangerous.

On top of that, they catch fire and people do die. I could of started this thread with the link, to many deaths, but I did not, I simply wished for people to think about these things, from a safety aspect, and discuss that. But nooooooooo. Its got to be all or nothing, not one word can be said against the great Wind Turbine, even if they are killing people along with millions of birds.

These people will literally not let one disparaging truth be stated on this corner of the internet, about Wind Turbines.

People can not live by wind turbines, they are dangerous, the manufacture says so, experience says so.

Disgusting to think, that someone may actually get hurt marveling at one of these, when it breaks, because they heard all the hype, they are great and beautiful.

Wind Turbines destroy the Earth, miles of earth, not just a spot, miles of earth a half a mile wide. Sounds like a thread, thanks old crock!

I live in an area with hundreds of wind turbines. There are a half dozen of them in the field across the road from our house. We didn't even know they were there until the trees were bare of leaves last fall.

They're quiet, efficient, and they're not making anyone sick. These are just lies being spread by the flat earthers like yourself.

Your post is full of lies. The wind turbines are very quiet. They haven't injured or killed anyone in our county, and farmers are ploughing fields and planting crops all around them.

They aren't destroying the land either.

Toronto? and you live across from a Wind Turbine that is not taller than the trees? Nobody builds Wind Turbines that are the same height as trees! The trees would block the wind, I guess that is why you can not hear them, obviously they were built to secure a subsidy, not to provide electricity.

I say you exaggerate (I am being nice). Wind Turbines tower above trees. I could post dozens of pictures, like this one from Ontario.

I don't live in Toronto. A year and a half ago we moved to the Niagara Peninsula.

The wind turbines are taller than trees. But if they are behind a large stand of trees, the trees obscure the turbines because the trees are in the foreground. It's called "perspective . Things that are closer to you appear to be larger than things which are farther away.

Like I said, bullshit, you claimed you never knew they were there until the leaves fell from the tree.

That's correct. The turbines are at least a mile away. The trees are literally on the other side of the road. So from our windows you can't see anything but the trees But when the trees were bare, we could see the windmills.

You clearly live in a city and have no clue about perspective or distance, or rural spaces.

You stated that you never knew that the Wind Turbines were there until after the leaves fell off the trees. That I called a lie. I did not state that if you are behind a tree you can not see them, you changed your argument. You specifically stated you did not know that the Wind Turbines were there.

And where is your picture? From you window? It is winter so how about a picture now and you can follow up with a picture in the spring.

 

[elektra]

Per kilowatt would be the comparison. Coal use is increased to provide the energy to build wind turbines, you can not build millions of wind turbines without coal.

You can if you get rid of the coal fired plants and replace them with natural gas fired plants, which is what we are currently doing by attrition, and continue to build more alternative energy sources. The fact is that coals' days are numbered. Get over it.

Oh, sorry, I was thinking of the tower which is made of steel, many, many, tons, which takes coke which comes from coal.

Actually, most steel production today in the U.S. is made from recycled metal. And that takes little, if any coal to produce, because the steel has already been extracted from the ore. The coal is used in the extraction process, which is irrelevant if your raw material is recycled steel. So, the amount of coal used for the production of steel for use in wind farms is much less than you think, and far less than is used in electrical production, which is its primary use.

Most steel produced in the usa us from scrap? Link? Alloys are not made from scrap, which is what a wind turbine requires.

The bulk of the weight of a wind turbine is plain old steel. The housing, the frame, the post it sits on, all are made of ordinary steel.

Your lies are astonishing.

You have zero understanding of what steel is. Your claim that as a Geologist thus you have a better understanding than I ever would is nothing less than a STRAWMAN argument.

Actually, most steel production today in the U.S. is made from recycled metal. And that takes little, if any coal to produce, because the steel has already been extracted from the ore. The coal is used in the extraction process, which is irrelevant if your raw material is recycled steel.

Most steel in the U.S.? First off Wind Turbine manufacture is a World Wide industry. We are speaking of wind turbines, not simply steel.

steel production coking coal - World Coal Association

Global steel production is dependent on coal. 70% of the steel produced today uses coal. Metallurgical coal – or coking coal – is a vital ingredient in the steel making process. World crude steel production was 1.4 billion tonnes in 2010. Around 721 million tonnes of coking coal was used in the production of steel.

"The coal is used in the extraction process"

Extraction process? You have zero understanding of the chemistry we are speaking of. Steel making is chemistry. Coking coal is used to melt iron ore, not to extract the iron from the iron ore. Last I checked that is done with magnets after the Iron ore is crushed and pulverized. Extracting the Iron, from the Iron Ore is not done with coking coal.

orogenicman just haphazardly makes statements through pure ignorance. I do not care if the source of Steel is scrap or iron ore, an EAF still uses carbon, and that carbon comes from coal.

Outokumpu produces steel from scrap, in the USA, that is done in Indiana, although their biggest operations are overseas (china produces over 3x's the steel than the USA). Recycling scrap steel in an EAF (Electric Arc Furnace) requires a tremendous amount of electricity, which happens to be supplied by Coal burning power plants. You can not supply and EAF with Solar or Wind power, it is simply too weak. Thus orogenicman, your argument that an EAF is used, proves that Coal use is increased to produce Steel Wind Towers. Further, Outokumpu which produces the, rolled quarto plate steel in the USA does use carbon (which comes from coal) in their EAF (all EAF's use carbon).

Producing stainless steel About stainless steel Grades forms Global Outokumpu

1) Melting of raw materials in an electric arc furnace (EAF)
The most conventional method is to melt the raw materials, scrap (alloyed and unalloyed) and ferro-alloys in an electric arc furnace, where powerful electric arcs start to melt the scrap and alloys.

During the melting process, the arc reaches temperatures of up to 3,500 °C, and the molten steel can reach up to 1,800 °C. The additional injection of chemical energy, in the form of carbon, ferrosilicon, oxygen, or fuel gas mixtures, speeds up the melting process.

Making steel in either a blast furnace or an electric arc furnace requires carbon. Carbon comes from Coal.

orogenicman, the "geologist", hardly knows more about steel than an Electrical Power Research Institute analyst that specializes in the inductive reactance phase analysis of eddy currents induced in ASTM stainless steel alloys in accordance with EPRI/ASNT codes.

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[elektra]

Electra, not only silly, but very dumb. Do you really think that the electrons in the wires know the source of the energy that is pushing them? Whatever the source of the power, it is put on the grid, and taken off the grid without referance to it's source.

Really, you are proving yourself to be ignorant and silly beyond even ol' Billy Boob. Now that is quite an achievement.

Old Crock/Moonglow, an Electric Arc Furnace operates when the Sun is not shining as well as when the Wind is not blowing, so yes, the person who purchases power for any Steel Mill is very conscious of where that power comes from, so much so they write contracts to ensure they have power.

EAF's are located near Coal Plants for a reason, they draw a tremendous amount of electricity.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Link? to show you that building a 300-400' tower of steel does not increase the use of Steel? Tell us how the construction of millions of Wind Turbines will decrease the use of Steel.

Your attention deficit disorder is really serious.

You were asked to provide a link for this idiotic claim;

Making wind turbines increases the use of coal.

Try and keep up with the rest of your fellow short bus students.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Actually, most steel production today in the U.S. is made from recycled metal. And that takes little, if any coal to produce, because the steel has already been extracted from the ore. The coal is used in the extraction process, which is irrelevant if your raw material is recycled steel. So, the amount of coal used for the production of steel for use in wind farms is much less than you think, and far less than is used in electrical production, which is its primary use.

Most steel produced in the usa us from scrap? Link? Alloys are not made from scrap, which is what a wind turbine requires.

Almost 70% of all aluminum is recycled.

Wind turbines are made of steel because they need to be strong enough to deal with the forces exerted by the wind on the blades.

Once again your ignorance is appalling.

Wind turbine blades are made of fiberglass, the tower is made of steel, now are you willing to make the claim zero aluminum is used in a wind turbine.

Your strawman exposes your ignorance.

Your trolling validates my facts.

Only in your wet dreams!

 

[Derideo_Te]

Electra, not only silly, but very dumb. Do you really think that the electrons in the wires know the source of the energy that is pushing them? Whatever the source of the power, it is put on the grid, and taken off the grid without referance to it's source.

Really, you are proving yourself to be ignorant and silly beyond even ol' Billy Boob. Now that is quite an achievement.

Old Crock/Moonglow, an Electric Arc Furnace operates when the Sun is not shining as well as when the Wind is not blowing, so yes, the person who purchases power for any Steel Mill is very conscious of where that power comes from, so much so they write contracts to ensure they have power.

EAF's are located near Coal Plants for a reason, they draw a tremendous amount of electricity.

More profound ignorance from the OP!

EAF's have no requirement to be "located near Coal Plants" at all.

They are greener because unlike a blast furnace which needs to operate 24*7 an EAF only needs to run for a long as it takes to melt the scrap steel. That is way more environmentally friendly. Since they can cause drains and spikes in the power supplyEAF's tend to operate when demand is lowest and rates are cheapest.

 

[Dragonlady]

I live in an area with hundreds of wind turbines. There are a half dozen of them in the field across the road from our house. We didn't even know they were there until the trees were bare of leaves last fall.

They're quiet, efficient, and they're not making anyone sick. These are just lies being spread by the flat earthers like yourself.

Your post is full of lies. The wind turbines are very quiet. They haven't injured or killed anyone in our county, and farmers are ploughing fields and planting crops all around them.

They aren't destroying the land either.

Toronto? and you live across from a Wind Turbine that is not taller than the trees? Nobody builds Wind Turbines that are the same height as trees! The trees would block the wind, I guess that is why you can not hear them, obviously they were built to secure a subsidy, not to provide electricity.

I say you exaggerate (I am being nice). Wind Turbines tower above trees. I could post dozens of pictures, like this one from Ontario.

I don't live in Toronto. A year and a half ago we moved to the Niagara Peninsula.

The wind turbines are taller than trees. But if they are behind a large stand of trees, the trees obscure the turbines because the trees are in the foreground. It's called "perspective . Things that are closer to you appear to be larger than things which are farther away.

Like I said, bullshit, you claimed you never knew they were there until the leaves fell from the tree.

That's correct. The turbines are at least a mile away. The trees are literally on the other side of the road. So from our windows you can't see anything but the trees But when the trees were bare, we could see the windmills.

You clearly live in a city and have no clue about perspective or distance, or rural spaces.

You stated that you never knew that the Wind Turbines were there until after the leaves fell off the trees. That I called a lie. I did not state that if you are behind a tree you can not see them, you changed your argument. You specifically stated you did not know that the Wind Turbines were there.

And where is your picture? From you window? It is winter so how about a picture now and you can follow up with a picture in the spring.

 

[Dragonlady]

You called me a liar, because I couldn't' possibly be seeing windmills in Toronto. Well actually I could. There's a windmill on the CNE Grounds, and I understand that there are me in Scarborough as well, but I've never seen them. But I don't live in Toronto any more. I moved to the Niagara Region in August of 2013 and have posted numerous times about the adjustment from city to country living. Niagara Region and Haldimand County are undergoing massive windmill development. You can google it. Better yet, google windmills Niagara and get a look at the windmill location map which shows the shoreline south of Welland practically painted red with all the windmill dots. That is where I now live.

Green light for west Niagara wind turbine project Welland Tribune

initially because you assumed that I was saying the wind turbines are the same height or shorter than the trees, and you posted a picture with your accusation to prove that I knew nothing about windmills. But I never said such a thing or even suggested it. All I said was that the trees obscured our view of the windmills. It was YOU who said that wasn't possible. Clearly you have no clue about distance or perspective.

We only became aware of the windmills while driving home. We turned south off the highway to get to our road and through the trees I could see the windmills in the field across the road from my house. I can see the lights on the windmills from my front window, but not the actual turbines, because there are just too many trees between our house and the open area of the field. Concession lots in this area are 200 acres. Fields are very large.

You keep saying I'm lying. Why would I lie? What would be the point?

You come across as someone who has never seen a real windmill. Everything you know about them comes from videos or internet blogs, and all of your information bears no resemblance to fact or reality.

 

[elektra]

You called me a liar, because I couldn't' possibly be seeing windmills in Toronto. Well actually I could. There's a windmill on the CNE Grounds, and I understand that there are me in Scarborough as well, but I've never seen them. But I don't live in Toronto any more. I moved to the Niagara Region in August of 2013 and have posted numerous times about the adjustment from city to country living. Niagara Region and Haldimand County are undergoing massive windmill development. You can google it. Better yet, google windmills Niagara and get a look at the windmill location map which shows the shoreline south of Welland practically painted red with all the windmill dots. That is where I now live.

Green light for west Niagara wind turbine project Welland Tribune

initially because you assumed that I was saying the wind turbines are the same height or shorter than the trees, and you posted a picture with your accusation to prove that I knew nothing about windmills. But I never said such a thing or even suggested it. All I said was that the trees obscured our view of the windmills. It was YOU who said that wasn't possible. Clearly you have no clue about distance or perspective.

We only became aware of the windmills while driving home. We turned south off the highway to get to our road and through the trees I could see the windmills in the field across the road from my house. I can see the lights on the windmills from my front window, but not the actual turbines, because there are just too many trees between our house and the open area of the field. Concession lots in this area are 200 acres. Fields are very large.

You keep saying I'm lying. Why would I lie? What would be the point?

You come across as someone who has never seen a real windmill. Everything you know about them comes from videos or internet blogs, and all of your information bears no resemblance to fact or reality.

No pic from that window? I know of a wind turbine on Brock rd. Kinda close to where that serial killer and his wife lived.

I know Canada and it's energy, better than you, I just finished a job for Bruce nuclear. Will start another fir opg, soon.

So how about that pic, no camera,