Cut Corporate Tax Rates--Remove Loopholes

[DiamondDave]

If you keep cutting taxes, how the hell are you going to pay for anything? Small government only works in a tiny country like Ireland whose population is about 4 million. We have 300 million. There's a bit of a difference. Also, while Ireland's corporate taxes are low, Ireland's personal taxes are through the roof. 41% on all income over $30,000. Only America's absolute richest have our highest tax rate - 36%.

How the hell is the government getting it's nose into more areas than it is supposed to? That is a big fucking problem... Our government spending and handing out money like a drunken sailor on their first shore leave in a year..

If you don't have the idiotic expenses of welfare, entitlements, "arts" spending, political shindigs, etc, THAT is the kind of smaller government we are looking for... not reducing police forces, the military etc....

 

[DiamondDave]

As for flat tax, I've never seen a credible breakdown of how it would work and if it would really be fair. Progressive tax doesn't bother me. What bothers me more is that religious organizations enjoy tax free status.

What do you not get about the inherent blind fairness of a system where each person is taxed the same percentage on every dollar they make?

Progressive tax DOES bother me... for it is against the concept of equality and equal treatment by the government

 

[Toro]

Corporate tax rates in the United States are the 2nd highest in the world.

And we wonder why corporations out-source & move their operations to different countries.

The nominal rate of corporate tax is amongst the highest in the world. The effective rate of corporate tax is amongst the lowest in the world.

ataxingmatter: Tax Foundation and Competitive Environments: more bunk!

 

[Bern80]

Because they make less. I could to, but I choose not to.

And anyone that is paying 6% needs to quit whining.

Not neccessarily, more often than not especially in the case of the rich, it is because they know how to minimize their realized income (income that can be taxed).

 

[sealybobo]

Corporate tax rates in the United States are the 2nd highest in the world.

And we wonder why corporations out-source & move their operations to different countries.

Aren't we the only industrialized country that has our employers pay for healthcare?

Then we should free our corporations from this burden and socialize medicine.

Right?

 

[Bern80]

Aren't we the only industrialized country that has our employers pay for healthcare?

Then we should free our corporations from this burden and socialize medicine.

Right?

Because that is the ONLY other conceivable alternative of course.

 

[sealybobo]

The nominal rate of corporate tax is amongst the highest in the world. The effective rate of corporate tax is amongst the lowest in the world.

ataxingmatter: Tax Foundation and Competitive Environments: more bunk!

After the Great Depression, FDR put this nation back to work, in part by raising taxes on income above $3 to $4 million a year to 91 percent, and corporate taxes to over 50% of profits. It didn’t kill the economy.
The revenue from those income taxes built dams, roads, bridges, sewers, water systems, schools, hospitals, train stations, railways, an interstate highway system, and airports. It educated a generation returning from World War II. It acted as a cap on the rare but occasional obsessively greedy person taking so much out of the economy that it impoverished the rest of us. Though, more and more loopholes for the rich were built into the tax code, so much so that JFK observed in his second debate with Nixon that dropping the top tax rate to 70% but tightening up the loopholes would actually be a tax increase.
So through loopholes, the rich are not paying their fair share in taxes. It is a fact you will most definitely ignore.
JFK pushed through a tax increase to take us back toward FDR/Truman/Eisenhower revenue levels, and we continued to build infrastructure in the US, and even put men on the moon. Health care and college were cheap and widely available. Working people could raise a family and have security in their old age. Every billion dollars invested in infrastructure in America created 47,000 good-paying jobs as Americans built America.
But the rich fought back, and won big-time in 1980 when Reagan won. Reagan promptly cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983 (they’re still in that neighborhood, the lowest in the industrialized world).
The result was devastating. Our government was suddenly so badly awash in red ink that Reagan doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year (FICA), and then began borrowing from the huge surplus this new tax was accumulating in the Social Security Trust Fund. Even with that, Reagan had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined.
In addition to badly throwing the nation into debt, Reagan’s tax cut blew out the ceiling on the accumulation of wealth, leading to a new Gilded Age and the rise of a generation of super-wealthy that hadn’t been seen since the Robber Baron era of the 1890s or the Roaring 20s.
And, most tragically, Reagan’s tax cuts caused America to stop investing in infrastructure.

 

[sealybobo]

In other words, fuck the Corporations. They'll pay what we say they should pay. That's the cost of being allowed to do business in America.

Corporations, you pay so we don't have to. This is our country, not yours.

And trust me, if you are an American corporation hiring American workers, you'll get all the tax breaks you can handle.

But the free ride is over. Time to pay your fair share in taxes.

No more loopholes.

No more arguing with house slaves who think corporations and rich people pay too much.

You people are just stupid fucking idiots that don't know what you are talking about.

You argue for tax breaks and vote for McCain, which is crazy because Obama is the one who'll give YOU a tax break.

No more allowing oil companies to gouge us at the pumps.

Now if IBM wants to charge double for their computers, they can do that. They can do that because we can choose to buy or not to buy. But we have no choice when it comes to oil, so either we highly regulate the oil companies or we take them over.

Free market capitalism is over. At least when it comes to tax payers money. If we are funding blackwater, then those jobs need to go out to bid. Besides, why are we allowing them to perpetuate the war for profit? That's what corporations do. They don't want to end the war.

I could go on all day. The fact is, we know who's been fucking us for 30 years and how.

No more lying and saying that the rich pay too much in taxes. They won't be happy until they pay nothing in taxes. In fact, many of them already pay zero in taxes. Do I need to provide the link from GAO?

 

[DiamondDave]

Aren't we the only industrialized country that has our employers pay for healthcare?

Then we should free our corporations from this burden and socialize medicine.

Right?

1) It is a benefit like pay.. an incentive given to attract the desired workers... it is a voluntary thing by the companies...
2) It is still the personal responsibility of the individual to choose this benefit, or choose the company that wishes to offer this benefit.... it is not the responsibility of the company, or the government, or anyone else... it is the responsibility of the individual who wants the healthcare service/benefit

So no.. .we should not have the government take over healthcare and "socialize" medicine

 

[sealybobo]

Not neccessarily, more often than not especially in the case of the rich, it is because they know how to minimize their realized income (income that can be taxed).

So why do people continue to argue for these rich people who clearly aren't paying taxes on all their income?

 

[DiamondDave]

Return the high income tax rates to 91%??.... you are truly nucking futs

 

[Tech_Esq]

Aren't we the only industrialized country that has our employers pay for healthcare?

Then we should free our corporations from this burden and socialize medicine.

Right?

A better approach would be a modified French system. The government picks up the bulk of the expense (60%-70% plus anyone who can't afford health care), in France employers offer health insurance that cover the rest.

We should modify this by the government creating a coverage pool for health care encompassing the entire US. They would then offer insurance companies the ability to participate in the pool. If they do, they make a small profit as assured by the government plan. The rates would be regulated.

On the second part, instead of employer provided insurance there should be a combination of insurance and a high deductible health savings account that ensure that in order to get other than normal check ups and well care, people have to come off of money from their health care accounts. The money could be kept for a lifetime in those accounts.

The last part creates the rational usage of health care by individuals and prevents one of the primary failure of health care systems, over use.

 

[Bern80]

So why do people continue to argue for these rich people who clearly aren't paying taxes on all their income?

You really, really don't understand money do you? THAT my friend is the real problem with this country. I'm sorry, I'm not going to stop saying it. The problems with this country have very little to do with policies or who pays what tax rates. It has to do with a change in attitudes/behaviors and fundamental lack of understanding about money by the majority of Americans.

Crash course: Realized income is the sum of what you take and put into your own pocket at the end of the year. That money has a tax rate on it. However one can still make money via stocks, bonds etc. due to their appreciation. if you invest in a stock and it's value increases over a year that gain can only be taxed when you sell the stock. That is the difference between worth and income.

 

[Tech_Esq]

In other words, fuck the Corporations. They'll pay what we say they should pay. That's the cost of being allowed to do business in America.

Corporations, you pay so we don't have to. This is our country, not yours.

And trust me, if you are an American corporation hiring American workers, you'll get all the tax breaks you can handle.

But the free ride is over. Time to pay your fair share in taxes.

No more loopholes.

No more arguing with house slaves who think corporations and rich people pay too much.

You people are just stupid fucking idiots that don't know what you are talking about.

You argue for tax breaks and vote for McCain, which is crazy because Obama is the one who'll give YOU a tax break.

No more allowing oil companies to gouge us at the pumps.

Now if IBM wants to charge double for their computers, they can do that. They can do that because we can choose to buy or not to buy. But we have no choice when it comes to oil, so either we highly regulate the oil companies or we take them over.

Free market capitalism is over. At least when it comes to tax payers money. If we are funding blackwater, then those jobs need to go out to bid. Besides, why are we allowing them to perpetuate the war for profit? That's what corporations do. They don't want to end the war.

I could go on all day. The fact is, we know who's been fucking us for 30 years and how.

No more lying and saying that the rich pay too much in taxes. They won't be happy until they pay nothing in taxes. In fact, many of them already pay zero in taxes. Do I need to provide the link from GAO?

I'm a corporation and I say fuck you. I was here first, you leave.

 

[Bern80]

In other words, fuck the Corporations. They'll pay what we say they should pay. That's the cost of being allowed to do business in America.

Corporations, you pay so we don't have to. This is our country, not yours.

And trust me, if you are an American corporation hiring American workers, you'll get all the tax breaks you can handle.

But the free ride is over. Time to pay your fair share in taxes.

No more loopholes.

No more arguing with house slaves who think corporations and rich people pay too much.

You people are just stupid fucking idiots that don't know what you are talking about.

You argue for tax breaks and vote for McCain, which is crazy because Obama is the one who'll give YOU a tax break.

No more allowing oil companies to gouge us at the pumps.

Now if IBM wants to charge double for their computers, they can do that. They can do that because we can choose to buy or not to buy. But we have no choice when it comes to oil, so either we highly regulate the oil companies or we take them over.

Free market capitalism is over. At least when it comes to tax payers money. If we are funding blackwater, then those jobs need to go out to bid. Besides, why are we allowing them to perpetuate the war for profit? That's what corporations do. They don't want to end the war.

I could go on all day. The fact is, we know who's been fucking us for 30 years and how.

No more lying and saying that the rich pay too much in taxes. They won't be happy until they pay nothing in taxes. In fact, many of them already pay zero in taxes. Do I need to provide the link from GAO?

I imagine you could go on all day, and continue to be wrong about 100% of it.

You rail against a system that doesn't exist in the first place (free market capitalism).

The math doesn't work out on your fuck the rich idea, considering the pay the bulk of the taxes. How much of the tax burden would you like them to shoulder? All of it?

 

[sealybobo]

A better approach would be a modified French system. The government picks up the bulk of the expense (60%-70% plus anyone who can't afford health care), in France employers offer health insurance that cover the rest.

We should modify this by the government creating a coverage pool for health care encompassing the entire US. They would then offer insurance companies the ability to participate in the pool. If they do, they make a small profit as assured by the government plan. The rates would be regulated.

On the second part, instead of employer provided insurance there should be a combination of insurance and a high deductible health savings account that ensure that in order to get other than normal check ups and well care, people have to come off of money from their health care accounts. The money could be kept for a lifetime in those accounts.

The last part creates the rational usage of health care by individuals and prevents one of the primary failure of health care systems, over use.

Hey, I like your idea!

My mom is a medical biller. She says the problem in the 80's and 90's was overuse. Today, it's under used. People are avoiding going to the doctors to avoid the co-pays. Or seniors only get so much $ each year, so they scrimp instead of going in to get something taken care of.

But it's funny how one decade it was that people were going too much, and now they're desperate for customers!!!

But your idea is probably what we will do.

 

[sealybobo]

You really, really don't understand money do you? THAT my friend is the real problem with this country. I'm sorry, I'm not going to stop saying it. The problems with this country have very little to do with policies or who pays what tax rates. It has to do with a change in attitudes/behaviors and fundamental lack of understanding about money by the majority of Americans.

Crash course: Realized income is the sum of what you take and put into your own pocket at the end of the year. That money has a tax rate on it. However one can still make money via stocks, bonds etc. due to their appreciation. if you invest in a stock and it's value increases over a year that gain can only be taxed when you sell the stock. That is the difference between worth and income.

Still no light bulbs have gone off. All I know is that Reagan & now GW Bush have rolled the tax rates too far back for the top 1% so we need to raise their taxes.

It wasn't right for Bush to cut their taxes so much. Reagan cut them enough. But they won't be happy until they pay no taxes, which in some case, they don't.

We know enough to know this is true. So when you tell me that they pay most of the taxes, I know you are being misleading. You're using fuzzy math. Voodoo economics. Or they should be paying most of the taxes.

But whether they're paying most of them or not, they aren't paying enough.

FDR fixed this country by raising the rich's taxes. It didn't break anything.

The revenue we got from that fixed up America.

We need to fix up America now.

So where should we get the money?

a. China
b. Print more money
c. Raise everyone's taxes
d. Roll back the Reagan/Bush tax cuts to what they were before Reagan

No brainer.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm a corporation and I say fuck you. I was here first, you leave.

There are more of us than there are of you. Never forget that.

Without your employees, you are nothing.

Also, our government is in place. We make the rules. You just send lobbyists to Washington to corrupt our politicians. That's why you'll never really want campaign finance reform or any kind of reform in Washington, because it's Corporate special interest. You actually think they are fighting for you.

So in reality, you don't even want change in Washington. You like how things are going. You are a Robber Baron. It's time to take back what you stole from the treasury. Raise your taxes. And go ahead and charge us more for your service. We just won't buy your goods and you can move to Mexico and sell your shit there.

If you fail because the dems raise your taxes, I say ha ha to you. Your business sucked then.

But when you do better the next 10 years than you did the last 8, I'll be able to say I told you so.

Or if the Dems don't do anything to cost you more money, you should then shut the fuck up and quit being a whiner, and/or stop listening to the GOP.

 

[sealybobo]

The math doesn't work out on your fuck the rich idea, considering the pay the bulk of the taxes. How much of the tax burden would you like them to shoulder? All of it?

Like it was before Reagan.

Funny you guys agree with Ron Paul but then argue against him out of the other side of your mouths.

 

[DiamondDave]

And your support of extraordinary tax rates and punishment taxes on those who actually earn.. and not any system based on equality... the true super lefty in you just does not lean, and keeps up the hypocrisy