"Culture of Evil"

[ChrisL]

People who do these things were mentally ill to begin with.

Oh really? And what clinical diagnosis(es) would that be? I think that you would find that is simply not accurate, if you checked. Now, if you would like to possibly argue that religion can be a cause mental illness... have at it. The ability to suspend one's reason, incredulity, reason-based morals, and affinity for this material life most certainly can and does cause people to do vile things.

I couldn't count the number of times, just on this message board, that I have seen religious people gleefully declare that we are all losers who deserve to be punished. I would say the leap from that position or mentality to violence is quite a smaller leap than , say, from a belief in secular humanism

Saying things and doing them are two entirely different things. A whole LOT of people talk a big talk but when it becomes time to walk the walk, it is not happening. Lol.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you are not sexually attracted to the kiddies, then a religious belief is not going to suddenly start molesting them.

Again, it is a mistake to think this is necessarily an "on/off" switch, when it comes to both having those impulses, then being compelled enough by them to act on them, then being compelled to act on them again and again. there's a lot of highway between A and B, there. There is more than one cause here, in other words.

 

[ChrisL]

Pedophilia is a mental disease. Pedophiles take jobs that allow them to be close to children.

While those things may both be true, the disposition to pedophilia would certainly come in degrees. I would not believe for a second that every pedophile priest merely became a priest because he was a pedophile. Neither would you.

People can be changed by experience. A decade of suspending all credulity and much of one's humanism in deference to "higher truths" can foment vile acts like pedophilia. or physical abuse.

Why not? That is what pedophiles do. They do things that will put them in close proximity to their victims, like become priests, school teachers, camp counselors, guidance counselors, whatever.

 

[ChrisL]

If you are not sexually attracted to the kiddies, then a religious belief is not going to suddenly start molesting them.

Again, it is a mistake to think this is necessarily an "on/off" switch, when it comes to both having those impulses, then being compelled enough by them to act on them, then being compelled to act on them again and again. there's a lot of highway between A and B, there. There is more than one cause here, in other words.

Err. No. You either would or would not sexually molest a child. There is no "in between."

 

[Votto]

Nuns 'sorry' over Smyllum abuse claims

Nuns and priests abusing orphans both physically and sexually. Police are trying to identify multiple bodies buried in an unmarked grave in the grounds.

How does this happen ?

Presumably the home was established with the best of motives. How does it descend into evil ?

At least they were not pimping out children via a charity like Penn State was.

Then when Penn State was punished with sanctions by the NCAA, they lifted virtually all of them in a few years cuz they just looooved the money they brought into college football.

Funny how this sort of thing is not only going on in the Catholic church, much to your apparent obliviousness.

What both examples have in common, however, is a powerful array of politics and lawyers and large amounts of money in the mix that keeps these things from ever coming to justice like they should.

Speaking of which, how does a US Congress get away with paying tax payer money to sexually assaulted women over decades of time to keep quiet to the tune of some $17 million?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A whole LOT of people talk a big talk but when it becomes time to walk the walk, it is not happening. Lol.

..... and then we all get shocked when we find out about father Murphy molesting 127 kids. Then we all get shocked when the church organist is caught beating his wife and molesting his daughters.

And, to be clear... I am not really focusing on the ideas contained within a specific religion, but rather some of the pathways one can go down when burying one's self so deep in a sphere of utter delusion. It certainly is not only the major religions which can cause such a thing. Think about people who just invent their own little cults, many with nothing to do with any gods.

 

[westwall]

Pedophilia is a mental disease. Pedophiles take jobs that allow them to be close to children.

While those things may both be true, the disposition to pedophilia would certainly come in degrees. I would not believe for a second that every pedophile priest merely became a priest because he was a pedophile. Neither would you.

People can be changed by experience. A decade of suspending all credulity and much of one's humanism in deference to "higher truths" can foment vile acts like pedophilia. or physical abuse.

Nope. According to the DSM pedophiles have a 100% recidivism rate. They will never change, no matter how much counseling they get. As far as pedo's joining the priesthood to prey on children, most I would say do so. Based on the evidence that we do have it is pretty obvious that the catholic church harbored pedophile priests and moved them around to protect them. This was done at the highest levels of the church. Why would they do this?

Based on what we know about nambla, and other pedophile groups they all help each other so yes, I do believe that pretty much every pedophile priest joined expressly so they could prey on their flock. I can see the occasional pedo joining the priesthood in a vain attempt to control their urges, but the evidence is pretty compelling that pedo's join the priesthood, and teaching, so they can get close to children. It is pedophilia 101 as it were.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Funny how this sort of thing is not only going on in the Catholic church

Certainly not....

 

[ChrisL]

A whole LOT of people talk a big talk but when it becomes time to walk the walk, it is not happening. Lol.

..... and then we all get shocked when we find out about father Murphy molesting 127 kids. Then we all get shocked when the church organist is caught beating his wife and molesting his daughters.

And, to be clear... I am not really focusing on the ideas contained within a specific religion, but rather some of the pathways one can go down when burying one's self so deep in a sphere of utter delusion. It certainly is not only the major religions which can cause such a thing. Think about people who just invent their own little cults, many with nothing to do with any gods.

And? This doesn't mean that the "religion made him do it" anymore than it means "the devil made him do it." Lol.

 

[ChrisL]

A cop out for your own behavior is what you are giving these sick fuckers.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nope. According to the DSM pedophiles have a 100% recidivism rate.

Which means, AFTER they have acted on it once. the DSM does not say that pedophiles are all born pedophiles, or all display pedophilia from an young age.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And? This doesn't mean that the "religion made him do it"

Of course it does. Things can have more than one cause. i believe the mental efforts required to believe in religion can easily be taken to far. You can call this mental illness, if you like. I would agree, it is.

 

[westwall]

Nope. According to the DSM pedophiles have a 100% recidivism rate.

Which means, AFTER they have acted on it once. the DSM does not say that pedophiles are all born pedophiles, or all display pedophilia from an young age.

Actually it does. Some pedo's are able to not act on their urges, but they are the very rare exception. Pedo's are BORN, not made.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A cop out for your own behavior is what you are giving these sick fuckers.

Not at all.... an explanation is not an excuse...

In fact, it is YOU who gave them the ultimate "free from blame card", when YOU diagnosed them as all mentally ill!

 

[ChrisL]

People do these kinds of things because THEY WANT TO. There is no other factor involved. They are sick and lower than the lowest gutter rat.

 

[BreezeWood]

These things occur because of both repression and the delusion of being some sort of divine agent. Faith does strange things to the brain.

Meh, I don't think it turns people into child abusers or child sex offenders.

Sure it does. It also turns people into murderers, suiciders, physical abusers, etc. Not everyone, of course. And, of course, it;'s not the only thing that does this to people. But, certainly, people use this instrument of faith to justify and/or absolve themselves. Imagine not just having faith, but living in an odd little sub- and counter-culture where you are literally viewed as a divine agent.

Pedophilia is a mental disease. Pedophiles take jobs that allow them to be close to children. It's an age old tactic. Why do you think so many teachers turn out to be pedophiles? It ain't the job, or the religion, it is the PERSON.

.

It's an age old tactic.

Nuns and priests abusing orphans both physically and sexually.

How does it descend into evil ?

oh, that little corner of the desert landscape is excusable because it is of those people for that subject matter and not endemic throughout history including the present day for those congregations in their support ... what a joke. why not face reality, the majority have always been motivated by greed that is purposefully woven into and steadfastly adorned in their documents. it is not descendant, it is perpetuated.

 

[ChrisL]

A cop out for your own behavior is what you are giving these sick fuckers.

Not at all.... an explanation is not an excuse...

In fact, it is YOU who gave them the ultimate "free from blame card", when YOU diagnosed them as all mentally ill!

BS. You are saying that a religious belief MADE them molest kids. That is such bogus illogical and ridiculous assertion I've ever heard!

 

[westwall]

A cop out for your own behavior is what you are giving these sick fuckers.

Not at all.... an explanation is not an excuse...

In fact, it is YOU who gave them the ultimate "free from blame card", when YOU diagnosed them as all mentally ill!

That's because they are. We didn't assign them that, the experts in the field have. Otherwise the punishment would still be death.

 

[Votto]

Unfortunately the Catholic church is wealthy and politically connected. After all, they kept silent during the Holocaust for fear of being targeted, which they most certainly would have been.

Similarly, we see abortion on demand around the world that by the Catholic churches own theology makes the Holocaust look like a walk in the park compared to the hundreds of millions of souls slaughtered in the name of economic convenience. Yet the Catholic church is eerily silent much like during the time of the Holocaust cuz the world governments seem to like abortion on demand so the Catholic church fears standing up to them. Instead, the Pope likes giving sermons on global warming and the virtue of government redistribution and the evils of building walls like Nehemiah did in the Old Testament.

Funny how some things never change.

 

[ChrisL]

And? This doesn't mean that the "religion made him do it"

Of course it does. Things can have more than one cause. i believe the mental efforts required to believe in religion can easily be taken to far. You can call this mental illness, if you like. I would agree, it is.

Yes, of course. Religious preoccupations can also be a sign of a mental illness, usually schizophrenia. However, this is not associated with pedophilia in any scientific data. Why don't you post some scientific data that shows religion as a CAUSE for pedophilia. I await with bated breath.