Crucifixion.

[froggy]

Facts about the Crucifixion

Could you have endured this suffering?

Definitely not.
And that is one thing I wonder about as it goes to His apostles.
These guys are credited with spreading the "lie" that Jesus was God-made-Man.
Given the Roman's expertise in torture, wouldn't self-preservation kick in, eventually, and Peter (for example) would just say, "Okay, stop, I lied. Jesus isn't anybody important. He didn't really die. We just hid the body"
I mean, heck, Peter was crucified up-side-down, even, and didn't cave in.

What about the roman guards at the tomb.

 

[kal-el]

So which do you want to have free will or not, sound like any excuse you can think of works for you. but your still loved.

That's not really the point froggy. Biblegod *could* have given us free will, but implanted us with the tendency to choose NOT to sin. I could tell you to eat dog shit, but surely you'll refuse, because it's nasty, but the point is you *could* have eaten it. Jesus had free will but at the same time, didn't sin. Angels had free will and they didn't sin.

 

[hortysir]

Facts about the Crucifixion

Could you have endured this suffering?

Definitely not.
And that is one thing I wonder about as it goes to His apostles.
These guys are credited with spreading the "lie" that Jesus was God-made-Man.
Given the Roman's expertise in torture, wouldn't self-preservation kick in, eventually, and Peter (for example) would just say, "Okay, stop, I lied. Jesus isn't anybody important. He didn't really die. We just hid the body"
I mean, heck, Peter was crucified up-side-down, even, and didn't cave in.

What about the roman guards at the tomb.

That's where skeptics throw out a ton of speculation.
*They bribed the guards
*They switched the body
etc.....

 

[sparky]

How do you know He didn't sin ?

~S~

 

[hortysir]

So which do you want to have free will or not, sound like any excuse you can think of works for you. but your still loved.

That's not really the point froggy. Biblegod *could* have given us free will, but implanted us with the tendency to choose NOT to sin. I could tell you to eat dog shit, but surely you'll refuse, because it's nasty, but the point is you *could* have eaten it. Jesus had free will but at the same time, didn't sin. Angels had free will and they didn't sin.

see: Lucifer

 

[kal-el]

see: Lucifer

Yea you're right. But that strips the biblegod of yet another attribute. Either he is not all knowing, or not all powerful. If he knew that Lucifer would turn, why would he create him? Did someone hold a gun to the character God's head and demand that he make Lucifer?

 

[sparky]

So which do you want to have free will or not, sound like any excuse you can think of works for you. but your still loved.

That's not really the point froggy. Biblegod *could* have given us free will, but implanted us with the tendency to choose NOT to sin. I could tell you to eat dog shit, but surely you'll refuse, because it's nasty, but the point is you *could* have eaten it. Jesus had free will but at the same time, didn't sin. Angels had free will and they didn't sin.

see: Lucifer

maybe i can get a word to him to register and opine Horty, i know his sister fairly well.....

~S~

 

[froggy]

So which do you want to have free will or not, sound like any excuse you can think of works for you. but your still loved.

That's not really the point froggy. Biblegod *could* have given us free will, but implanted us with the tendency to choose NOT to sin. I could tell you to eat dog shit, but surely you'll refuse, because it's nasty, but the point is you *could* have eaten it. Jesus had free will but at the same time, didn't sin. Angels had free will and they didn't sin.

Sounds like you want your cake and eat it to, Now you have free will to choose or deny God. the decision is up to you and you alone.

 

[hortysir]

Just goes back to free-will, Kal, that's all.
When Lucifer betrayed Him, He cast Him out.
When Adam and Eve did it, same thing.
When you or I do it, thankfully, we have an intercessor in Jesus Christ.
If we pass on that offer, see: Lucifer, Adam, and Eve.

 

[hortysir]

That's not really the point froggy. Biblegod *could* have given us free will, but implanted us with the tendency to choose NOT to sin. I could tell you to eat dog shit, but surely you'll refuse, because it's nasty, but the point is you *could* have eaten it. Jesus had free will but at the same time, didn't sin. Angels had free will and they didn't sin.

see: Lucifer

maybe i can get a word to him to register and opine Horty, i know his sister fairly well.....

~S~

You were married to my ex too?

 

[kal-el]

Sounds like you want your cake and eat it to, Now you have free will to choose or deny God. the decision is up to you and you alone.

With all due respect froggy, it's really not a decision at all; it's a coercion. If I'm going to be sent to hell for not choosing what the biblegod wants, then what kind of decision is that?

 

[kal-el]

Just goes back to free-will, Kal, that's all.
When Lucifer betrayed Him, He cast Him out.
When Adam and Eve did it, same thing.
When you or I do it, thankfully, we have an intercessor in Jesus Christ.
If we pass on that offer, see: Lucifer, Adam, and Eve.

It seems whenever the biblegod doesn't get what he wants he throws a hissy fit. The way the biblegod cannot exist because his attributes are logically contradictory,is the same way cubic spheres can't exist because there properties are also contradictory. The bible's main character killed or had killed on his orders more people then any tyrant in history, probably combined. If the biblegod actually existed, he would have a difficult time escaping the death penalty that so many of his followers champion themselves.

 

[JBeukema]

Vlad says crucifixion if is mercy

 

[JBeukema]

Facts about the Crucifixion

Could you have endured this suffering?

Definitely not.
And that is one thing I wonder about as it goes to His apostles.
These guys are credited with spreading the "lie" that Jesus was God-made-Man.
Given the Roman's expertise in torture, wouldn't self-preservation kick in, eventually, and Peter (for example) would just say, "Okay, stop, I lied. Jesus isn't anybody important. He didn't really die. We just hid the body"
I mean, heck, Peter was crucified up-side-down, even, and didn't cave in.

What about the roman guards at the tomb.

the ones don't even exist in all versions of the story?

Who found the tomb empty?

 

[JBeukema]

Sounds like you want your cake and eat it to, Now you have free will to choose or deny God. the decision is up to you and you alone.

With all due respect froggy, it's really not a decision at all; it's a coercion. If I'm going to be sent to hell for not choosing what the biblegod wants, then what kind of decision is that?

*puts gun to your head*


Give me your wallet... of your own free will... or I'll shoot you... because I love you....

 

[kal-el]

*puts gun to your head*


Give me your wallet... of your own free will... or I'll shoot you... because I love you....

Yea that about sums it up. That's like if you go into a bank with a Taurus revolver and go to the teller and demand money. Do you think she will oblige because she actually wants to give you money? No, she doesn't want to get harmed. Now try the same thing unarmed. I can practically guarantee that it won't be the same. That's what we see with the biblegod.

 

[hortysir]

*puts gun to your head*


Give me your wallet... of your own free will... or I'll shoot you... because I love you....

Yea that about sums it up. That's like if you go into a bank with a Taurus revolver and go to the teller and demand money. Do you think she will oblige because she actually wants to give you money? No, she doesn't want to get harmed. Now try the same thing unarmed. I can practically guarantee that it won't be the same. That's what we see with the biblegod.

Because God is making such an unreasonable request that we love and honor Him and try to live in harmony with His wishes, that it is comparable to armed robbery and murder?!
He's threatening to steal something from us?

 

[kal-el]

*puts gun to your head*


Give me your wallet... of your own free will... or I'll shoot you... because I love you....

Yea that about sums it up. That's like if you go into a bank with a Taurus revolver and go to the teller and demand money. Do you think she will oblige because she actually wants to give you money? No, she doesn't want to get harmed. Now try the same thing unarmed. I can practically guarantee that it won't be the same. That's what we see with the biblegod.

Because God is making such an unreasonable request that we love and honor Him and try to live in harmony with His wishes, that it is comparable to armed robbery and murder?!
He's threatening to steal something from us?

You're taking my analogy to literally man. The point of contention here is that we do not have free will to either choose to be with biblegod or not, because if we don't use that fw exactly as biblegod sees fit, we are to be tortured forever and ever. If we truly had fw, and selected not to follow the biblegod, then he would honor our choice and carry on with his day to day activities.

 

[hortysir]

Can we be good for goodness sake and not have to worry about (imaginary) consequences?

 

[JBeukema]

Because God is making such an unreasonable request that we love and honor Him and try to live in harmony with His wishes

I swear I heard a guy on Maury say the same thing when he was confronted over the fact that he beat his wife whenever she didn't have supper ready.

Why should I respect a genocidal maniac that orders that pregnant women be torn open?