Couldn't have happened to a nicer bumch of people

[Tinktink]

That's millions of DOLLARS, bigot. Not millions of kids. Thanks for proving that you're just a dumbass like all prejudiced people.

First off, I said billions of dollars, not millions. Big difference. Why am I a bigot? Because I seek to challenge someone's comment against a belief by exposing one of the most common beliefs is just as criminal? If you are of faith, that shame belongs to you not me, considering I am not of faith. The sad thing in reading your response, is that you apparently don't understand it shouldn't have even been just one kid. People like you that excuse it, like you just did are just a criminal as the people who committed it. Remember the money given didn't cover hush money, or many years before it was exposed, that makes the numbers inacurate. Tell me, how many people died in the name of Scientology, verses how many people died in the name of Christianity? Bet you can't.

If recognizing the hypocracy of condeming any religion while being a part of one that is just as destroctive if not more, makes me a dumb ass. I would glady wear a medal of honor labeling me as one. Thank you for gifting me with that medal.

no you didnt, you liar, you said millions of children
and you claimed they didnt get justice, those millions of dollars awarded says they DID get justice

Huh? Yes I said millions of children, and said billions of dollars? How does that come out to being a liar?

The next time somebody rapes your child, remember the justice they got came in the form of cash. And not in the form of the one who raped your child being made responsible legally and morally for doing so.

 

[Tinktink]

That's millions of DOLLARS, bigot. Not millions of kids. Thanks for proving that you're just a dumbass like all prejudiced people.

First off, I said billions of dollars, not millions. Big difference. Why am I a bigot? Because I seek to challenge someone's comment against a belief by exposing one of the most common beliefs is just as criminal? If you are of faith, that shame belongs to you not me, considering I am not of faith. The sad thing in reading your response, is that you apparently don't understand it shouldn't have even been just one kid. People like you that excuse it, like you just did are just a criminal as the people who committed it. Remember the money given didn't cover hush money, or many years before it was exposed, that makes the numbers inacurate. Tell me, how many people died in the name of Scientology, verses how many people died in the name of Christianity? Bet you can't.

If recognizing the hypocracy of condeming any religion while being a part of one that is just as destroctive if not more, makes me a dumb ass. I would glady wear a medal of honor labeling me as one. Thank you for gifting me with that medal.

Come on man.

Are you really gonna sit here and try to debate which organized religion has hurt the most people?

Either way you cut the cake, its like you just said "The sad thing in reading your response, is that you apparently don't understand it shouldn't have even been just one kid."

Now, if you really wanna debate how horrible the Catholic Church is compared to Scientology, feel free to create your own thread. Cause at this point, you're just de-railing Mr. RetiredGunnySeargents thread on SCIENTOLOGY.

Like my old band teacher used to say: "Catch my drift or should I snow again?"

It wasn't my intent to derail the thread. I apologize if you think so. It was my intent to counter the statement it couldn't have happend to a nicer bunch of people. Apparently, you like all the others are offended that I even tried too. How sad, not to mention quite telling.

 

[KittenKoder]

All organizations are prone to abuse, often in areas which are horrid, organized religion is no exception to this, they all have abuse in one way or another. Wish I could say this surprises me, but it's become human nature.

 

[brewerboy]

Sexual abuse by Roman Catholic priests has cost the U.S. church morethan $1.5 billion since 1950. The following is a list of some of thelargest known payouts to victims since the crisis intensified in 2002with revelations that a molester priest was moved among parishes in theBoston Archdiocese without alerting parents or police:

_ Diocese of Orange, Calif., 2004, $100 million for 90 abuse claims.

_ Diocese of Covington, Ky., 2006, up to $85 million for roughly 350 people.

_ Archdiocese of Boston, 2003, $85 million for 552 claims.

_ Archdiocese of Los Angeles, 2006, $60 million for 45 lawsuits.

_ Diocese of Oakland, Calif., 2005, $56 million to 56 people.

_ Archdiocese of Louisville, Ky., 2003, $25.7 million to 243 victims.

_Diocese of Tucson, Ariz., 2005, agrees to fund a settlement trust worthabout $22 million for more than 50 victims as part of a plan to emergefrom bankruptcy protection.

Published: Friday, December 1, 2006 10:31 PST

1.5 billion do you really think that covers less then let's say 500,000? Because you would have to be living in a cave to not realize that for ever one who came out and spoke against what happened to them... there were at least 10 more that couldn't.

Because I am new for some reason, I don't know why, I am not allowed to post a URL, to link you to the stats...

I was pretty damn sure that you were talking about the Catholic Church.

But lets discuss this for a quick second and do a quick comparison:

The Catholic Church has been around for centuries, Scientology has been around since the 50's. Due to that fact, one could conclude that the Catholic Church has much more practice in hiding their crimes. Scientology isnt so adept at the practice.

With that being said, we all know what happened in the Catholic Church; sexual abuse, in many cases would come to light, and the offender would be moved to the next Diocese somewhere down the line. As far as I know, the same cant excatly be said for Scientology.

But as this conversation pertains to this thread, we're essentially comparing a lady being fired for not following an employers religious methods to Catholic priests abusing children and being transfered somewhere else. I dont think that I need to say that we're essentially comparing apples to oranges here my friend. Not to mention that we're comparing French apples to American oranges and thereby possibly confusing the laws of two very different countries.

And I fail to see how the Catholic Church got away with this so long because they're "so protected" (your words)

Who protected them?

Cause the way I see it, they protected themselves in what amounts to be one large cover-up.

Actually you are wrong. Society did. As is clear in the response before yours calling me a bigot for even bringing it up.

I said millions of children. You and the other poster lashed out. But stop to think about it, the church abuse scandel started what in 2000? How many years before that do you really think it went on? Do you not think enough years to make my millions a valid point?

Back to Scientology. I am no Scientologist, and I find them just a vile as any organized religion. But you can't convince me that they are more vile then any other. Scientology defrauds the public. How many evangalistics have done so over and above.

Finally you are right, this is about a woman who. But look at the title of the thread in addition to the content, and see it is nothing other then a blame game.

Hey hey, we're back on track here a bit

Let me make an attempt to break your reply down point by point, if I may (I'm gonna go ahead)

1. How did I lash out? I merely called into question your estimation on the number of people abused by the Catholic Church. If thats "lashing out" then I suggest you grow some thicker skin, bud.

2. You still cant prove that "millions" of children we're sexually abused by Catholic priests, can you?

3. (Backing up here to your first few lines of reply) How did society cover up the Catholic abuse scandal? You argue against this point yourself by saying "But stop to think about it, the church abuse scandel started what in 2000?" If the Scandal didnt come to light until 2000, please explain how "society" helped cover it prior to 2000

4."I am no Scientologist, and I find them just a vile as any organized religion. But you can't convince me that they are more vile then any other." Again, not the point of this thread. Start your own if you would really like to debate that point.

5."Finally you are right, this is about a woman who. But look at the title of the thread in addition to the content, and see it is nothing other then a blame game" Absolutely, this thread is about a women, in France, defrauded by Scientology. But as far as the "blame game" goes, one might say that you're playing the same game.

 

[DiveCon]

First off, I said billions of dollars, not millions. Big difference. Why am I a bigot? Because I seek to challenge someone's comment against a belief by exposing one of the most common beliefs is just as criminal? If you are of faith, that shame belongs to you not me, considering I am not of faith. The sad thing in reading your response, is that you apparently don't understand it shouldn't have even been just one kid. People like you that excuse it, like you just did are just a criminal as the people who committed it. Remember the money given didn't cover hush money, or many years before it was exposed, that makes the numbers inacurate. Tell me, how many people died in the name of Scientology, verses how many people died in the name of Christianity? Bet you can't.

If recognizing the hypocracy of condeming any religion while being a part of one that is just as destroctive if not more, makes me a dumb ass. I would glady wear a medal of honor labeling me as one. Thank you for gifting me with that medal.

no you didnt, you liar, you said millions of children
and you claimed they didnt get justice, those millions of dollars awarded says they DID get justice

Huh? Yes I said millions of children, and said billions of dollars? How does that come out to being a liar?

The next time somebody rapes your child, remember the justice they got came in the form of cash. And not in the form of the one who raped your child being made responsible legally and morally for doing so.

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

 

[brewerboy]

First off, I said billions of dollars, not millions. Big difference. Why am I a bigot? Because I seek to challenge someone's comment against a belief by exposing one of the most common beliefs is just as criminal? If you are of faith, that shame belongs to you not me, considering I am not of faith. The sad thing in reading your response, is that you apparently don't understand it shouldn't have even been just one kid. People like you that excuse it, like you just did are just a criminal as the people who committed it. Remember the money given didn't cover hush money, or many years before it was exposed, that makes the numbers inacurate. Tell me, how many people died in the name of Scientology, verses how many people died in the name of Christianity? Bet you can't.

If recognizing the hypocracy of condeming any religion while being a part of one that is just as destroctive if not more, makes me a dumb ass. I would glady wear a medal of honor labeling me as one. Thank you for gifting me with that medal.

Come on man.

Are you really gonna sit here and try to debate which organized religion has hurt the most people?

Either way you cut the cake, its like you just said "The sad thing in reading your response, is that you apparently don't understand it shouldn't have even been just one kid."

Now, if you really wanna debate how horrible the Catholic Church is compared to Scientology, feel free to create your own thread. Cause at this point, you're just de-railing Mr. RetiredGunnySeargents thread on SCIENTOLOGY.

Like my old band teacher used to say: "Catch my drift or should I snow again?"

It wasn't my intent to derail the thread. I apologize if you think so. It was my intent to counter the statement it couldn't have happend to a nicer bunch of people. Apparently, you like all the others are offended that I even tried too. How sad, not to mention quite telling.

The statement that "it couldnt happen to a nicer bunch of people" was in jest man, a.k.a. sarcasm.

And I'm not offended at all. If you would take the time to read back to my first reply to you, you will see that I said something to the effect of "I agree with what appears to be your stance on organized religion." (thats not an exact quote, I just dont feel the need to go back and read my own words)

 

[Tinktink]

I was pretty damn sure that you were talking about the Catholic Church.

But lets discuss this for a quick second and do a quick comparison:

The Catholic Church has been around for centuries, Scientology has been around since the 50's. Due to that fact, one could conclude that the Catholic Church has much more practice in hiding their crimes. Scientology isnt so adept at the practice.

With that being said, we all know what happened in the Catholic Church; sexual abuse, in many cases would come to light, and the offender would be moved to the next Diocese somewhere down the line. As far as I know, the same cant excatly be said for Scientology.

But as this conversation pertains to this thread, we're essentially comparing a lady being fired for not following an employers religious methods to Catholic priests abusing children and being transfered somewhere else. I dont think that I need to say that we're essentially comparing apples to oranges here my friend. Not to mention that we're comparing French apples to American oranges and thereby possibly confusing the laws of two very different countries.

And I fail to see how the Catholic Church got away with this so long because they're "so protected" (your words)

Who protected them?

Cause the way I see it, they protected themselves in what amounts to be one large cover-up.

Actually you are wrong. Society did. As is clear in the response before yours calling me a bigot for even bringing it up.

I said millions of children. You and the other poster lashed out. But stop to think about it, the church abuse scandel started what in 2000? How many years before that do you really think it went on? Do you not think enough years to make my millions a valid point?

Back to Scientology. I am no Scientologist, and I find them just a vile as any organized religion. But you can't convince me that they are more vile then any other. Scientology defrauds the public. How many evangalistics have done so over and above.

Finally you are right, this is about a woman who. But look at the title of the thread in addition to the content, and see it is nothing other then a blame game.

Hey hey, we're back on track here a bit

Let me make an attempt to break your reply down point by point, if I may (I'm gonna go ahead)

1. How did I lash out? I merely called into question your estimation on the number of people abused by the Catholic Church. If thats "lashing out" then I suggest you grow some thicker skin, bud.

2. You still cant prove that "millions" of children we're sexually abused by Catholic priests, can you?

3. (Backing up here to your first few lines of reply) How did society cover up the Catholic abuse scandal? You argue against this point yourself by saying "But stop to think about it, the church abuse scandel started what in 2000?" If the Scandal didnt come to light until 2000, please explain how "society" helped cover it.

4."I am no Scientologist, and I find them just a vile as any organized religion. But you can't convince me that they are more vile then any other." Again, not the point of this thread. Start your own if you would really like to debate that point.

5."Finally you are right, this is about a woman who. But look at the title of the thread in addition to the content, and see it is nothing other then a blame game" Absolutely, this thread is about a women, in France, defrauded by Scientology. But as far as the "blame game" goes, one might say that you're playing the same game.

Maybe you and I don't see this the same way I did. I am all about the Scientology being brought to justice. I think where I went astray was in the comment regarding couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of people. I may have been less critical if the topic read Scientologist taken to court for fraud. Then I would have been right there saying hell yea... and yipee... and cheering it on.

All a matter of personal perception of intent. Huh?

 

[brewerboy]

Actually you are wrong. Society did. As is clear in the response before yours calling me a bigot for even bringing it up.

I said millions of children. You and the other poster lashed out. But stop to think about it, the church abuse scandel started what in 2000? How many years before that do you really think it went on? Do you not think enough years to make my millions a valid point?

Back to Scientology. I am no Scientologist, and I find them just a vile as any organized religion. But you can't convince me that they are more vile then any other. Scientology defrauds the public. How many evangalistics have done so over and above.

Finally you are right, this is about a woman who. But look at the title of the thread in addition to the content, and see it is nothing other then a blame game.

Hey hey, we're back on track here a bit

Let me make an attempt to break your reply down point by point, if I may (I'm gonna go ahead)

1. How did I lash out? I merely called into question your estimation on the number of people abused by the Catholic Church. If thats "lashing out" then I suggest you grow some thicker skin, bud.

2. You still cant prove that "millions" of children we're sexually abused by Catholic priests, can you?

3. (Backing up here to your first few lines of reply) How did society cover up the Catholic abuse scandal? You argue against this point yourself by saying "But stop to think about it, the church abuse scandel started what in 2000?" If the Scandal didnt come to light until 2000, please explain how "society" helped cover it.

4."I am no Scientologist, and I find them just a vile as any organized religion. But you can't convince me that they are more vile then any other." Again, not the point of this thread. Start your own if you would really like to debate that point.

5."Finally you are right, this is about a woman who. But look at the title of the thread in addition to the content, and see it is nothing other then a blame game" Absolutely, this thread is about a women, in France, defrauded by Scientology. But as far as the "blame game" goes, one might say that you're playing the same game.

Maybe you and I don't see this the same way I did. I am all about the Scientology being brought to justice. I think where I went astray was in the comment regarding couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of people. I may have been less critical if the topic read Scientologist taken to court for fraud. Then I would have been right there saying hell yea... and yipee... and cheering it on.

All a matter of personal perception of intent. Huh?

I agree 100%.

Glad we got around to the fact of the matter.

 

[Tinktink]

no you didnt, you liar, you said millions of children
and you claimed they didnt get justice, those millions of dollars awarded says they DID get justice

Huh? Yes I said millions of children, and said billions of dollars? How does that come out to being a liar?

The next time somebody rapes your child, remember the justice they got came in the form of cash. And not in the form of the one who raped your child being made responsible legally and morally for doing so.

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

 

[DiveCon]

Huh? Yes I said millions of children, and said billions of dollars? How does that come out to being a liar?

The next time somebody rapes your child, remember the justice they got came in the form of cash. And not in the form of the one who raped your child being made responsible legally and morally for doing so.

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

oh shut the fuck up
you got caught in your own fucking lie
you PWN3D yourself

 

[brewerboy]

Huh? Yes I said millions of children, and said billions of dollars? How does that come out to being a liar?

The next time somebody rapes your child, remember the justice they got came in the form of cash. And not in the form of the one who raped your child being made responsible legally and morally for doing so.

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

I think you need to make some clarifications here as they pertain to the Catholic Church.

Are we talking only the sexual abuse scandals? Or are we talking any kind of abuse whether it be mental, physical, or sexual.

And are we talking about the Catholic Church here in America, or worldwide?

If you're talking any abuse, world-wide, by the Catholic Church, I would say that your estimation has some creditibility.

However, if you're only talking about the sexual abuse here in the States, I would say your estimation is off.....and lets say that its dead correct, you still cant prove it.

 

[Tinktink]

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

oh shut the fuck up
you got caught in your own fucking lie
you PWN3D yourself

I did? Can you copy and paste where I did. I clearly said millions of children and billions of dollars. You my challenged one apparently lack reading and comprehension skills.

 

[Tinktink]

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

I think you need to make some clarifications here as they pertain to the Catholic Church.

Are we talking only the sexual abuse scandals? Or are we talking any kind of abuse whether it be mental, physical, or sexual.

And are we talking about the Catholic Church here in America, or worldwide?

If you're talking any abuse, world-wide, by the Catholic Church, I would say that your estimation has some creditibility.

However, if you're only talking about the sexual abuse here in the States, I would say your estimation is off.....and lets say that its dead correct, you still cant prove it.

Oh I am talking about here in the states. You seem to forget something very important in the scandel. The time line, the inablility for folks to come forward (that is massive), and the hush money spent to keep it silent.

You have to remember of all the victims of the church, not many were able to leave god and their beliefs to go against the church, especially when during the abuse they were made to believe god wanted that of them. Ever talk to a victim of that? I have. The sexual abuse is no where near the fear they face thinking if they expose what happened to them, they have no place in heaven or gods heart. Because the one who put them there was one they looked up to to find a path to god. Unfortunately, they were kids and didn't have the thinking power to understand, God didn't want them to take that path. Think about how profound that influence would be. Then come back to me and tell me that it couldn't have been a million kids since Columbus stepped foot on this land.

 

[brewerboy]

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

I think you need to make some clarifications here as they pertain to the Catholic Church.

Are we talking only the sexual abuse scandals? Or are we talking any kind of abuse whether it be mental, physical, or sexual.

And are we talking about the Catholic Church here in America, or worldwide?

If you're talking any abuse, world-wide, by the Catholic Church, I would say that your estimation has some creditibility.

However, if you're only talking about the sexual abuse here in the States, I would say your estimation is off.....and lets say that its dead correct, you still cant prove it.

Oh I am talking about here in the states. You seem to forget something very important in the scandel. The time line, the inablility for folks to come forward (that is massive), and the hush money spent to keep it silent.

You have to remember of all the victims of the church, not many were able to leave god and their beliefs to go against the church, especially when during the abuse they were made to believe god wanted that of them. Ever talk to a victim of that? I have. The sexual abuse is no where near the fear they face thinking if they expose what happened to them, they have no place in heaven or gods heart. Because the one who put them there was one they looked up to to find a path to god. Unfortunately, they were kids and didn't have the thinking power to understand, God didn't want them to take that path. Think about how profound that influence would be. Then come back to me and tell me that it couldn't have been a million kids since Columbus stepped foot on this land.

Appreciate the clarification.

You make three points in this post.

1. The Time-line. Fair enough. I think we could "guesstimate" until we're both blue in the face and not reach an agreement as far as the number of people abused here in the States since the Catholic Church made it here.

2. Inability to come forward, which you have made all but clear based of your experience in talking to, what, a few (tops?) victims. Since I wasnt raised Catholic, I'm not excatly qualified to argue for or against this.

3. Hush money. If we were in a court of law at this very moment, could you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt? I doubt it, quite honestly.

And please keep in mind that you havent specified on the the type of abuse, but based on your previous posts, you seemed more concerned on focusing on the sexual abuse, so thats what I'm focusing on.

Bed-time for me my friend. I'll be sure to check for your reply in the morning. Buenos Noches.

 

[DiveCon]

Denial is a wonderful thing. Hold on to it, it will get you through reality. Millions of children. Do you really think the abuse of the church started when people came forward, do you really think that before that it never happened? Consdering how old the church is, do you really believe the millions is a outrageous number? I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

oh shut the fuck up
you got caught in your own fucking lie
you PWN3D yourself

I did? Can you copy and paste where I did. I clearly said millions of children and billions of dollars. You my challenged one apparently lack reading and comprehension skills.

a million people is a lot
that list you posted isnt even CLOSE to it
its less than 1400 people
thats no where NEAR to a million
and you think I have reading issues

fucking idiot

 

[Tinktink]

oh shut the fuck up
you got caught in your own fucking lie
you PWN3D yourself

I did? Can you copy and paste where I did. I clearly said millions of children and billions of dollars. You my challenged one apparently lack reading and comprehension skills.

a million people is a lot
that list you posted isnt even CLOSE to it
its less than 1400 people
thats no where NEAR to a million
and you think I have reading issues

fucking idiot

If you read the post you would have also seen that what I posted didn't add up to 1.5 billion. And you seem to focus on what is documented and nothing else. The Catholic Church has been around since America's birth. Do you really think that the abuse of the church only started when it was exposed? I think the link I posted covered 2002. Do you truly believe that no child suffered before that?

Call me a fucking idiot all you want. Your right. I don't care. What I do care about is all the children you dismiss in doing so. Now that is a sad reflection of who you are.

 

[DiveCon]

I did? Can you copy and paste where I did. I clearly said millions of children and billions of dollars. You my challenged one apparently lack reading and comprehension skills.

a million people is a lot
that list you posted isnt even CLOSE to it
its less than 1400 people
thats no where NEAR to a million
and you think I have reading issues

fucking idiot

If you read the post you would have also seen that what I posted didn't add up to 1.5 billion. And you seem to focus on what is documented and nothing else. The Catholic Church has been around since America's birth. Do you really think that the abuse of the church only started when it was exposed? I think the link I posted covered 2002. Do you truly believe that no child suffered before that?

Call me a fucking idiot all you want. Your right. I don't care. What I do care about is all the children you dismiss in doing so. Now that is a sad reflection of who you are.

fucking religious bigots like you are sick disgusting fucks

 

[Tinktink]

a million people is a lot
that list you posted isnt even CLOSE to it
its less than 1400 people
thats no where NEAR to a million
and you think I have reading issues

fucking idiot

If you read the post you would have also seen that what I posted didn't add up to 1.5 billion. And you seem to focus on what is documented and nothing else. The Catholic Church has been around since America's birth. Do you really think that the abuse of the church only started when it was exposed? I think the link I posted covered 2002. Do you truly believe that no child suffered before that?

Call me a fucking idiot all you want. Your right. I don't care. What I do care about is all the children you dismiss in doing so. Now that is a sad reflection of who you are.

fucking religious bigots like you are sick disgusting fucks

Why? I would never support a organization that allowed child abuse.

DUBLIN – A fiercely debated, nine-year investigation into Ireland's Roman Catholic-run institutions says priests and nuns terrorized thousands of boys and girls in workhouse-style schools for decades — and government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.

High Court Justice Sean Ryan on Wednesday unveiled the 2,600-page final report of Ireland's Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse, which is based on testimony from thousands of former students and officials from more than 250 church-run institutions.

More than 30,000 children deemed to be petty thieves, truants or from dysfunctional families — a category that often included unmarried mothers — were sent to Ireland's austere network of industrial schools, reformatories, orphanages and hostels from the 1930s until the last church-run facilities shut in the 1990s.
The report found that molestation and rape were "endemic" in boys' facilities, chiefly run by the Christian Brothers order, and supervisors pursued policies that increased the danger. Girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless. Sisters of Mercy... .

"In some schools a high level of ritualized beating was routine. ... Girls were struck with implements designed to maximize pain and were struck on all parts of the body," the report said. "Personal and family denigration was widespread."

Victims of the system have long demanded that the truth of their experiences be documented and made public, so that children in Ireland never endure such suffering again.

But most leaders of religious orders have rejected the allegations as exaggerations and lies, and testified to the commission that any abuses were the responsibility of often long-dead individuals.

Wednesday's five-volume report sides almost completely with the former students' accounts. It concludes that church officials always shielded their orders' pedophiles from arrest amid a culture of self-serving secrecy. Not surprising, seems like the church has always found their standing more important than kindness and charity.

"A climate of fear, created by pervasive, excessive and arbitrary punishment, permeated most of the institutions and all those run for boys. Children lived with the daily terror of not knowing where the next beating was coming from," the report concluded.

The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential.

The report proposed 21 ways the government could recognize past wrongs, including building a permanent memorial, providing counseling and education to victims and improving Ireland's current child protection services.

But its findings will not be used for criminal prosecutions — in part because the Christian Brothers successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report. No real names, whether of victims or perpetrators, appear in the final document.

Irish church leaders and religious orders all declined to comment Wednesday, citing the need to read the massive document first. The Vatican also declined to comment.

The Irish government already has funded a parallel compensation system that has paid 12,000 abuse victims an average of euro65,000 ($90,000). About 2,000 claims remain outstanding.

Victims receive the payouts only if they waive their rights to sue the state and the church. Hundreds have rejected that condition and taken their abusers and those church employers to court. I am glad hundreds refused, and I hope to hell they sue the shit out of the Vatican.

Wednesday's report said children had no safe way to tell authorities about the assaults they were suffering, particularly the sexual aggression from church officials and older inmates in boys' institutions. How freaking sad this is.

"The management did not listen to or believe children when they complained of the activities of some of the men who had responsibility for their care," the commission found. "At best, the abusers were moved, but nothing was done about the harm done to the child. At worst, the child was blamed and seen as corrupted by the sexual activity, and was punished severely." The child blamed for being abused... how nauesating...



The commission dismissed as implausible a central defense of the religious orders — that, in bygone days, people did not recognize the sexual abuse of a child as a criminal offense, but rather as a sin that required repentance.

In their testimony, religious orders typically cited this opinion as the principal reason why sex-predator priests and brothers were sheltered within the system and moved to new posts where they could still maintain daily contact with children. Brilliant... absolutely brillent... fresh meat.

But the commission said its fact-finding — which included unearthing decades-old church files, chiefly stored in the Vatican, on scores of unreported abuse cases from Ireland's industrial schools — demonstrated that officials understood exactly what was at stake: their own reputations. Oh wait wasn't there a claim in the past the church didn't realize it was happening... ?

It cited numerous examples where school managers told police about child abusers who were not church officials — but never did this when one of their own had committed the crime.

"Contrary to the congregations' claims that the recidivist nature of sexual offending was not understood, it is clear from the documented cases that they were aware of the propensity for abusers to re-abuse," it said.

Religious orders were chiefly concerned about preventing scandal, not the danger to children, it said. Once again the Church likes to look good... and will continue to do so at the risk of millions...

The commission also condemned Ireland's Education Department for aiding the abusive culture through infrequent, toothless inspections that deferred to church authority.

Inspectors were supposed to restrict the use of corporal punishment and make sure the children were adequately fed, clothed and educated — but the report called those inspections "fundamentally flawed."

It said a lone inspector was responsible for monitoring more than 50 industrial schools, schools were told about the visits in advance and inspectors rarely talked to the children.

Wednesday's report also highlighted the rarity of human kindness in the institutions.

"A word of consideration or encouragement, or an act of sympathy or understanding, had a profound effect. Adults in their 60s and 70s recalled seemingly insignificant events that had remained with them all their lives," the report said.

"Often the act of kindness, recalled in such a positive light, arose from the simple fact that the staff member had not given a beating when one was expected."

If proof as is stated in this investigation isn't enough for you to stand up for the kids, can you really be ok with calling me a religious bigot? Or are you so far into denial, that facts shoved in your face, are only disgusting bigots in your eyes. Apparently the denial you hold on to is more important then the life of a child. Your distaste to my posting would be better taken if you were honest with the disdain you find your life filled with.

And that is only Ireland... how small is that country?

 

[Luissa]

no you didnt, you liar, you said millions of children
and you claimed they didnt get justice, those millions of dollars awarded says they DID get justice

Huh? Yes I said millions of children, and said billions of dollars? How does that come out to being a liar?

The next time somebody rapes your child, remember the justice they got came in the form of cash. And not in the form of the one who raped your child being made responsible legally and morally for doing so.

you're kidding, right?

are you really this fucking dense?
you claim "millions of children" and it isnt even close to that
you are a liar

I think I am Tink on this one, maybe not a million but probably a lot larger number than they have so far. We had many molested here by a catholic priest with diocese going bankrupt over what they had to pay. The Priest who largely molested the boys here worked in the area for years. YOu know there is many more people that have not come forward.

 

[strollingbones]

how does the church of scientology differ from any other church...arent they all promising the same things....that you can pay for peace.....in and in the ever after...sciencetologist try to off actual proof of what you are paying for ....here on the east coast i do not see them much....on the west coast they had reading rooms all over.


btw...someone said it was 10% of net...the tithe...is not ...its 10% of gross